nvm, misread their website
sorry about that, definitely geared towards pre-vet students
Goro's advice for pre-meds who need reinvention
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sorry about that, definitely geared towards pre-vet studentsruraldoctorhopeful
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Hey Goro, first off thanks for your time in helping all these students like myself.
So when AACOMAS calculates my GPA, it came out to cumulative and science GPA both to be 2.72. I contacted a few DO schools explaining my scenario to them, and for example AZCOM admissions replied to me stating they would not even consider my application since I would be screened out despite my above average MCAT score.
I looked at many DO school websites and most list a required minimum undergrad GPA requirement 2.8-3.0, which means I wouldn't have a shot at a lot of them. Do you know which DO schools would even give my application a set of human eyes.
It is looking rather discouraging especially since I worked hard to avoid the Caribbean's between my GPA repair and MCAT retake. Any advice you have is greatly appreciated.
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Where is @Calizboosted76 when you need him/her?????
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What was your MCAT?
edit: nvm just read back and seen.
So with having such a low GPA you have to do more than just succeed with the GPA repair and getting a good MCAT. You have to advocate for yourself. I applied to 50 schools and I emailed each school explaining my situation because my upward trend wasn’t visible in my year by year graph. So I reached out and showed my interest and also mentioned my situation. Many schools replied with “Your app will be looked at holistically like everyone else’s”. However some were very nice and I feel played a major role in my successful cycle.
Also don’t stop if you have a rejection from a school. If you get rejected EMAIL THEM AND ASK WHY. I was rejected from one of my top DO programs and I reached out and got eyes on my application which resulted in the rejection being over turned and eventually turned into an acceptance. Also if you haven’t heard back from schools don’t let that stop you from pursuing research and or volunteering work. Doing so will allow for you to provide a substantial update latter a few months into the cycle.
Below is a list of the schools I applied to along with if I was rejected, accepted, or waiting.
- Acceptances
- ICOM Accepted
- ACOM - Accepted
- Rejections
- ATSU-SOMA - (Rejected)
- VCOM (Rejected)
- MSUCOM (Rejected)
- PNWU-COM (Rejected)
- WVSOM (Rejected)
- Oakland-B (Rejected)
- RUSH (Rejected)
- NETTER (Rejected)
- MU-COM- (Rejected)
- EVMS (Rejected)
- UIWCOM (Rejected)
- CHSU- (Rejected)
- Touro- (Rejected)
- WVU (Rejected)
- LECOM-B (Rejected)
- DMU (Rejected)
- COMP-NW Cali (Rejected)
- COMP-NW Oregon (Rejected)
- ARCOM (Rejected)
- GTOWN (Rejected)
- GWU (Rejected)
- ROSY FRANKLIN (Rejected)
- WAYNE STATE (Rejected)
- UCF (Rejected)
- NYMC (Rejected)
- TEMPLE (Rejected)
- SLU (Rejected)
- DREXEL (Rejected)
- Loyola (Rejected)
- UF (Rejected)
- TULANE (Rejected)
- MCW (Rejected)
- FIU (Rejected)
- Fsu (Rejected)
- FAU (Rejected)
- Miami (Rejected)
- USF (Rejected)
- OU-HCOM- (Rejected)
- LECOM- Erie (Rejected)
DO schools
- LECOM- Seton hill (Done)
- LECOM- Elmira (Done)
- NYIT-AR (Done)
- UP-KYCOM- (Done)
- PCOM-GA- (Done)
- LMU-DCOM(Done)
- PCOM-SGA (Done)
- PCOM - PA (Done)
- WCU-COM (Done)
- MD Schools
- Seton Hall (Done)
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These schools will all look at your app. My GPA and MCAT was lower than yours and I built that list with the screening process in consideration. If there was a school that stated they would screen I emailed them and asked if I would be screened. A lot gave helpful information.
Some school don’t have a hard screen. Like ICOM says a 3.2 GPA and I was accepted very early on in the cycle with a substantially lower GPA.
ruraldoctorhopeful
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Calizboosted thank you so much for your detailed post. I will definitely use the advice you gave. Really appreciate it.
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Hi Goro, I'm wondering if I could get feedback on the description for my IA. For background, I performed very poorly during periods of my undergraduate career. 2/3 of the way through my freshman year, I received a warning that I could be disqualified from the university due to an extremely low GPA. I managed to avoid being disqualified, but I failed a calculus class 2 more times my senior year. All of my poor grades were in BCPM classes. I have completed my post bac with a 4.0, so I am hoping to address adcom concerns for my rollercoaster undergrad GPA.
"Following the winter quarter of my freshman year at [university], I received a notice from the associate dean of the school of physical sciences that I was in danger of academic disqualification due to a low quarterly GPA. Following this warning, I outlined a plan with my advisor to avoid disqualification and was able to complete my bachelor's degree on time. My study habits were not well-developed during my undergraduate career, which caused me to force my way through certain classes without adapting my study habits while having the unrealistic hope that my grades would improve on their own. Since my undergraduate career, I have grown in both maturity and capacity for reflection and improvement. The need to balance post-baccalaureate classes with full-time work, volunteering, and supporting a family has helped me develop excellent time management skills as well as the ability to reflect on my own learning style to develop study methods that are both efficient and effective."
"Following the winter quarter of my freshman year at [university], I received a notice from the associate dean of the school of physical sciences that I was in danger of academic disqualification due to a low quarterly GPA. Following this warning, I outlined a plan with my advisor to avoid disqualification and was able to complete my bachelor's degree on time. My study habits were not well-developed during my undergraduate career, which caused me to force my way through certain classes without adapting my study habits while having the unrealistic hope that my grades would improve on their own. Since my undergraduate career, I have grown in both maturity and capacity for reflection and improvement. The need to balance post-baccalaureate classes with full-time work, volunteering, and supporting a family has helped me develop excellent time management skills as well as the ability to reflect on my own learning style to develop study methods that are both efficient and effective."
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Thank you!
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@Goro, @Shotapp and @Calizboosted76 Thank you all for your input on this thread. Goro and shotapp, your wisdom is always appreciated, and Caliz, I've been reading your success recently, congrats and would love your opinion also on my reinvention.
So I stubbornly applied for the first time for the 2020 cycle and ended up with one waitlist and the rest hard R's. Applied broadly to MD and DO.
Goal: Reinvent the GPA with a DIY post bacc. 1st degree obtained was in 2017. DIY will be 1 year with 30 credits total and push the cGPA from 3.195 to roughly 3.33. Apply for the 2022 cycle early. MD's probably out of the question and will be mainly DO.
Questions (rather maybe more just needing confirmation):
1. GPA: I've read the last 5 or so pages and I believe the recurring theme for MD schools is that I would need more data points, meaning credits, to prove the GPA reinvention. I'm ok for DO schools then? Should I try to do a summer course in 2022 and update schools?
2. MCAT: The 505 would be good enough for DO schools, but probably will need to retake for any chance at MD schools? I took my MCAT while working full time and I know others have done this and scored significantly better, but if I did need to retake, I'd probably have to spend a solid 2 months full time on just that material. Would I even have time to restudy for the MCAT prior to 2022?
3. EC's: Maybe I didn't go far back enough in the thread, but how heavy on EC's should I be focusing on during my DIY? Like what would be sufficient to do while taking classes? My goal is obviously to raise my GPA and I don't want to spread myself thin because that's something I've realized about myself which was tacking on too many things at once. But I also don't want ADCOMS to see that I've stopped my EC's. I am moving from a town up north where I've lived back down to my school's location. I'll look for some volunteering opportunities, but a job would most likely be any random job to pay the rent and I'll be mostly surviving on savings.
4. What can I do or at least think about now before starting my DIY in preparation for this reinvention? I'm going to be at a summer camp camp counseling for a half the summer.
Stats:
cGPA: 3.195
sGPA AMCAS: 3.114
sGPA AACOMAS: 2.992 (Math woulda brought me over the 3.0)
Trend details: cGPA: 3.609/3.326/3.276/3.195; the sGPA lower by about 0.1 compared to cGPA every year except freshman.
MCAT
Jan 2020: 501
June 2020: 505
Currently enrolled for Fall 2021 at my alma mater to pursue a 2nd UG degree (science) for a DIY post bacc. Actually can probably get this 2nd UG degree in one year so I might as well take the requisites that overlap with medical school-like classes that Goro posted and snag the 2nd degree. Highlighted below are the ones I plan on taking within the degree. I'll also tack on courses from another department like Infectious Disease, Molecular Neurobiology, or Topics in Membrane Biology, etc.
EC's: I was in a few clubs during UG, volunteered, and worked a few jobs. Since graduating in 2017, I've moved to a different town in state and I've been working as a medical assistant so I have well over 5000 hours of clinical work and I've labeled a few hundred of those as shadowing. A few hundred hours of volunteering for a few random clubs around town. A couple of poster presentations for clinical research.
Thank you in advance for anyone else that has input.
So I stubbornly applied for the first time for the 2020 cycle and ended up with one waitlist and the rest hard R's. Applied broadly to MD and DO.
Goal: Reinvent the GPA with a DIY post bacc. 1st degree obtained was in 2017. DIY will be 1 year with 30 credits total and push the cGPA from 3.195 to roughly 3.33. Apply for the 2022 cycle early. MD's probably out of the question and will be mainly DO.
Questions (rather maybe more just needing confirmation):
1. GPA: I've read the last 5 or so pages and I believe the recurring theme for MD schools is that I would need more data points, meaning credits, to prove the GPA reinvention. I'm ok for DO schools then? Should I try to do a summer course in 2022 and update schools?
2. MCAT: The 505 would be good enough for DO schools, but probably will need to retake for any chance at MD schools? I took my MCAT while working full time and I know others have done this and scored significantly better, but if I did need to retake, I'd probably have to spend a solid 2 months full time on just that material. Would I even have time to restudy for the MCAT prior to 2022?
3. EC's: Maybe I didn't go far back enough in the thread, but how heavy on EC's should I be focusing on during my DIY? Like what would be sufficient to do while taking classes? My goal is obviously to raise my GPA and I don't want to spread myself thin because that's something I've realized about myself which was tacking on too many things at once. But I also don't want ADCOMS to see that I've stopped my EC's. I am moving from a town up north where I've lived back down to my school's location. I'll look for some volunteering opportunities, but a job would most likely be any random job to pay the rent and I'll be mostly surviving on savings.
4. What can I do or at least think about now before starting my DIY in preparation for this reinvention? I'm going to be at a summer camp camp counseling for a half the summer.
Stats:
cGPA: 3.195
sGPA AMCAS: 3.114
sGPA AACOMAS: 2.992 (Math woulda brought me over the 3.0)
Trend details: cGPA: 3.609/3.326/3.276/3.195; the sGPA lower by about 0.1 compared to cGPA every year except freshman.
MCAT
Jan 2020: 501
June 2020: 505
Currently enrolled for Fall 2021 at my alma mater to pursue a 2nd UG degree (science) for a DIY post bacc. Actually can probably get this 2nd UG degree in one year so I might as well take the requisites that overlap with medical school-like classes that Goro posted and snag the 2nd degree. Highlighted below are the ones I plan on taking within the degree. I'll also tack on courses from another department like Infectious Disease, Molecular Neurobiology, or Topics in Membrane Biology, etc.
| Cell Physiology | ||
| Endocrinology | ||
| Biomechanics | ||
| Sleep Physiology | ||
| Immunology | ||
| Exercise Physiology | ||
| Neurophysiology |
EC's: I was in a few clubs during UG, volunteered, and worked a few jobs. Since graduating in 2017, I've moved to a different town in state and I've been working as a medical assistant so I have well over 5000 hours of clinical work and I've labeled a few hundred of those as shadowing. A few hundred hours of volunteering for a few random clubs around town. A couple of poster presentations for clinical research.
Thank you in advance for anyone else that has input.
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Your plan looks good. You don't need to retake the Mcat for DO.
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I agree with @Shotapp , a retake is unnecessary.
So you have a downward trend in GPA if I read that correctly. You need at least a year of acting classes (preferably 15+ credit hours per semester if doing it in a year, if you spread it out over more than a year you can lighten course load a little to accommodate having to work). Once you have aced those classes you should be okay to apply for DO. I will say that the most important goal in front of you right now is to do well in these classes. Do not worry about ECs. However if you are able to get a job scribing that’s would be the best case scenario, this allows for professional shadowing and gives clinical experience. You can also rack up some gnarled letters of recommendation (which believe it or not, can make or break low stat applicants like us).
Good luck and feel free to DM me.
@Goro @Shotapp
Hi, I'm new to this thread, but I would love some insight. I graduated 2020 Spring from a top 10 US university with a 3.43 cGPA and 3.2 sGPA. I am completing the SMP program at the University of Michigan with a 3.912 c/sGPA (probably will show up on AMCAS as a 3.88 b/c they don't calculate my one A+ as a 4.3 like UMich does). My MCAT is a 512, which I got before starting this program. I have around 400 hours of clinical exposure currently, around 200 volunteer hours, 300 hours of research, obscene amount of work hours (2000+), and around 2000 hours for extracurriculars involving extensive leadership. I have a job as a medical assistant lined up to start next week full time so looking at about 2700 hours here over the next year and I'm working with a fellow classmate to start a detroit chapter of a health-centered non-profit (so more medical volunteer hours as well). I applied in the 2021 app cycle and was rejected everywhere preinterview from MDs in Michigan (didn't apply DO). I'm not really interested in DO programs right now, but I don't want to end up not accepted anywhere in this cycle as well. Am I safe to apply to just MD programs with my current application for the 2022 cycle or do I need to take the MCAT again/ reinvent more before going ahead with applying to MD schools again.
Would really appreciate any feedback, Thanks!
Hi, I'm new to this thread, but I would love some insight. I graduated 2020 Spring from a top 10 US university with a 3.43 cGPA and 3.2 sGPA. I am completing the SMP program at the University of Michigan with a 3.912 c/sGPA (probably will show up on AMCAS as a 3.88 b/c they don't calculate my one A+ as a 4.3 like UMich does). My MCAT is a 512, which I got before starting this program. I have around 400 hours of clinical exposure currently, around 200 volunteer hours, 300 hours of research, obscene amount of work hours (2000+), and around 2000 hours for extracurriculars involving extensive leadership. I have a job as a medical assistant lined up to start next week full time so looking at about 2700 hours here over the next year and I'm working with a fellow classmate to start a detroit chapter of a health-centered non-profit (so more medical volunteer hours as well). I applied in the 2021 app cycle and was rejected everywhere preinterview from MDs in Michigan (didn't apply DO). I'm not really interested in DO programs right now, but I don't want to end up not accepted anywhere in this cycle as well. Am I safe to apply to just MD programs with my current application for the 2022 cycle or do I need to take the MCAT again/ reinvent more before going ahead with applying to MD schools again.
Would really appreciate any feedback, Thanks!
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Beggars can't be choosy. You need to have DO schools on your list. Or do you want to run the risk of not getting n accept this year, and losing a year of attending salary?
Retaking a 512 MCAT is not a good idea.
Chances for MD will be best with the MI schools
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So the best I can wish for with my current stats are the MI schools? I'd like to stay in-state so that's not a problem for me, but am I understanding correctly that I'm not competitive OOS? With regards to my MCAT, I genuinely believe I can jump 2-4 points with more studying. I'm sure everyone believes that but I've already jumped 10 points taking it studying on my own and honestly I could've studied more as I was finishing school, applying to grad schools and med school, and studying at the same time. My improvable sections were the hard sciences and with the SMP knowledge plus some more dedicated studying, I think I could improve. I don't want to take the MCAT again if I don't have to, but if you feel that I'm not competitive for OOS MD then that makes me very concerned with my application in general.
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Oopps; I meant best with..., not best wish! My apologies!
I recommend:
Temple (maybe)
EVMS
Emory
Jefferson
U VM
Miami
Drexel
Albany
Tufts
NYMC
TCU/UNT
Your state schools
Rush
Loyola
Rosy Franklin
Tulane
Wake
MCW
SLU
Creighton
Netter
NovaMD
NYU.LI
Any DO program. I can't recommend ARCOM, RVU, Nova, BCOM, ICOM and LUCOM, for different reasons. MSUCOM? Read up on Larry Nasser and you decide. LMU has an accreditation warning, which concerns me. CUHS is too new and appears to be too limited in rotations sites. Avoid those new schools that haven't graduated a class yet, if at all possible.
Thank you for clarifying and thank you for the recommendations, I really appreciate the feedback wholeheartedly
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I'm going to go against the grain here and recommend you retake the MCAT under the assumption that you can improve 5+ points at minimum based on your practice exams. From what I've seen here a majority of students who excel in an SMP like you have perform exceptionally better on their MCAT retake, due to developing a better grasp of the sciences and studying habits. If you pair your SMP performance with a 517+ you could open up so many more doors. This is If you want MD only. For DO your current MCAT score is more than fine.
Good luck to you and keep up updated on your progress!
PremedVeryNonTrad
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Hi @Goro @Calizboosted76 @Dr.Gains . Ive been reading this thread for years. Thank you for your time.
I graduated with a 2.317 cGPA in chemistry in Spring 2018 mostly because of weak study skills and ADHD diagnosed after I graduated.
When I started my postbacc at a community college, I started off well but my mom was diagnosed with cancer in the middle of my first semester Fall 2018. My first 15 credits ended up being (D, B+, B, W) with 11 credits graded. I had too much ego to withdraw from everything and still took the MCAT Jan 2019 and ended up with a 484.
I left that community college and did some self development while I took care of my mother. She got better after a year of treatment and I got accepted to a formal postbacc with a linkage to their SMP.
I currently have a 3.82 in my last 35 credits from the formal postbacc (6 semesters including summer). This brings my cGPA to 2.57. But my total postbacc is a 3.47 (46 credits).
I have been accepted to the SMP in Biomedical Sciences. I am now wondering, should I take more upper level undergrad courses? I have looked into retroactive withdraw for the CC courses but I'm very doubtful.
I'm running out of upper level undergrad courses at my current school and would have to start a DIY at the larger far research college 30min away.
Ive been working full time as a volunteer EMT/paid critical care tech/CNA at a hospital for the past 3-4 years so clinical experience isn't a problem for me. I also have a year and a half of research at my first university. I don't have any shadowing yet but im more focused on my GPA while I do have some things lined up with physicians in the future.
My question is: should I take more courses at the undergrad level to bring up the 3.47 postbacc gpa? Or should I go for the SMP in Biomedical sciences? Does reinvention also apply to students who started postbacc poorly but ended with a high upward trend?
I currently plan on retaking the MCAT Jan 2023 AFTER I finish the postbacc/SMP/
7 months of prep and apply May 2023 (age 28) for 2024 matriculation
I graduated with a 2.317 cGPA in chemistry in Spring 2018 mostly because of weak study skills and ADHD diagnosed after I graduated.
When I started my postbacc at a community college, I started off well but my mom was diagnosed with cancer in the middle of my first semester Fall 2018. My first 15 credits ended up being (D, B+, B, W) with 11 credits graded. I had too much ego to withdraw from everything and still took the MCAT Jan 2019 and ended up with a 484.
I left that community college and did some self development while I took care of my mother. She got better after a year of treatment and I got accepted to a formal postbacc with a linkage to their SMP.
I currently have a 3.82 in my last 35 credits from the formal postbacc (6 semesters including summer). This brings my cGPA to 2.57. But my total postbacc is a 3.47 (46 credits).
I have been accepted to the SMP in Biomedical Sciences. I am now wondering, should I take more upper level undergrad courses? I have looked into retroactive withdraw for the CC courses but I'm very doubtful.
I'm running out of upper level undergrad courses at my current school and would have to start a DIY at the larger far research college 30min away.
Ive been working full time as a volunteer EMT/paid critical care tech/CNA at a hospital for the past 3-4 years so clinical experience isn't a problem for me. I also have a year and a half of research at my first university. I don't have any shadowing yet but im more focused on my GPA while I do have some things lined up with physicians in the future.
My question is: should I take more courses at the undergrad level to bring up the 3.47 postbacc gpa? Or should I go for the SMP in Biomedical sciences? Does reinvention also apply to students who started postbacc poorly but ended with a high upward trend?
I currently plan on retaking the MCAT Jan 2023 AFTER I finish the postbacc/SMP/
7 months of prep and apply May 2023 (age 28) for 2024 matriculation
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Ace the SMP and you're good to go.
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First off I am sorry to hear about your mom and I am happy that she is doing better now!
I agree with what goro says. I think the post bacc would have been enough if you didn’t do poorly in that semester.
Ace that SMP!
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Thanks for the help from everyone on this thread. Just got my senior year grades back and I was wondering if my GPA grade trend shows reinvention?
AACOMAS sgpa trend is similar, but higher (3.33) due to me acing some engineering courses that aren't counted in AMCAS
also of note, I lost a semester's worth of grading my junior year because my uni enacted universal pass/fail for last spring semester due to COVID, in case that needs to be taken into account (I should have 33 graded credits instead of 21)
I will likely take a DIY post-bacc anyway as my gpa number is quite malleable due to the just-mentioned lost semester and I think I can improve on the sgpa, but I was curious as to what people here think? How will the pass/fail semester look sandwiched between a 3.7 semester and some 3.9 semesters?
| Year - credits | Cumulative | amcas science |
| High school (dual enrollment) - 16 | 2.83 | 2.83 |
| Freshman - 29.5 | 2.95 | 2.82 |
| Sophomore - 35.5 | 2.89 | 2.82 |
| Junior - 21 | 3.71 | 3.7 |
| Senior - 38 | 3.9 | 4.0 |
| Total | 3.29 | 3.10 |
AACOMAS sgpa trend is similar, but higher (3.33) due to me acing some engineering courses that aren't counted in AMCAS
also of note, I lost a semester's worth of grading my junior year because my uni enacted universal pass/fail for last spring semester due to COVID, in case that needs to be taken into account (I should have 33 graded credits instead of 21)
I will likely take a DIY post-bacc anyway as my gpa number is quite malleable due to the just-mentioned lost semester and I think I can improve on the sgpa, but I was curious as to what people here think? How will the pass/fail semester look sandwiched between a 3.7 semester and some 3.9 semesters?
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Adcoms will understand what COVID did to people's apps.
So you have 1.5 years of reinvention? I agree that the best choice will be to do some post-bac work and have the best possible app. Med schools aren't' going anywhere.
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I don’t know that I would retake your MCAT unless you are 100% sure that you will get a markedly higher score.
You also need to widen your DO list.
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Hi @Goro @Calizboosted76
I am asking for help with what I need to improve on in order to get in because I'm at my wit's end! URM non traditional. I graduated from a top 10 public university with a 2.8 science GPA and about 3.0 cGPA (due to personal issues I've overcome now). I've taken almost 200 credits to the point that taking/retaking classes no longer improves my GPA almost at all. I've retaken lower graded prerequisite classes at a community college, did a year of grad school, and did an official post-bac/MS (included medical school courses Anatomy, Physiology, Histology, Biochem etc) which I did well in.
My post bac undergrad GPA is now 3.67 and my grad GPA is 3.7. However this only pulled my overall GPA to around 3.1. I have taken the MCAT a few times and my most recent is 500. My issues with the MCAT have been content as it's been 10+ years since I've taken most of the Chem 101's etc (except my retakes). I am currently studying to retake the MCAT as it feels like the ONLY part of my app that I can significantly change at this point because my GPA is just not budging much. I have over 10,000 clinical hours from years as medical assistant/surgical first assist/scribe, 1000 volunteer hours, hundreds for shadowing and EC, only about a semester and a Summer of research though (area of improvement??). I applied to state schools, HBCUs, and lower tier MD schools as well as 8+ DO schools. I knew MD was a stretch unless it was an HBCU but I expected at least 1 DO interview. Nothing. Reinvention doesn't seem to be working for me? I was going to bite the financial bullet and do another SMP with a guaranteed linkage but recently got rejected from that program because I've already taken 90% of the medical school curriculum offered. With an average LOR from a shadowed doctor and committee letter from my Program Director, what else can I do but crush the MCAT? Will getting a 510 as an URM do the trick? Do I need the 510 and published research or something? Thank you!!
I am asking for help with what I need to improve on in order to get in because I'm at my wit's end! URM non traditional. I graduated from a top 10 public university with a 2.8 science GPA and about 3.0 cGPA (due to personal issues I've overcome now). I've taken almost 200 credits to the point that taking/retaking classes no longer improves my GPA almost at all. I've retaken lower graded prerequisite classes at a community college, did a year of grad school, and did an official post-bac/MS (included medical school courses Anatomy, Physiology, Histology, Biochem etc) which I did well in.
My post bac undergrad GPA is now 3.67 and my grad GPA is 3.7. However this only pulled my overall GPA to around 3.1. I have taken the MCAT a few times and my most recent is 500. My issues with the MCAT have been content as it's been 10+ years since I've taken most of the Chem 101's etc (except my retakes). I am currently studying to retake the MCAT as it feels like the ONLY part of my app that I can significantly change at this point because my GPA is just not budging much. I have over 10,000 clinical hours from years as medical assistant/surgical first assist/scribe, 1000 volunteer hours, hundreds for shadowing and EC, only about a semester and a Summer of research though (area of improvement??). I applied to state schools, HBCUs, and lower tier MD schools as well as 8+ DO schools. I knew MD was a stretch unless it was an HBCU but I expected at least 1 DO interview. Nothing. Reinvention doesn't seem to be working for me? I was going to bite the financial bullet and do another SMP with a guaranteed linkage but recently got rejected from that program because I've already taken 90% of the medical school curriculum offered. With an average LOR from a shadowed doctor and committee letter from my Program Director, what else can I do but crush the MCAT? Will getting a 510 as an URM do the trick? Do I need the 510 and published research or something? Thank you!!
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Reinvention is not working for you because you have not reinvented yourself. You must get at least a 505 for DO schools paired with a killer post bacc or grad GPA.
I would suggest studying for the MCAT and not retaking it until you are scoring within 2-3 points of your target score. You have done the work for the GPA but now its time to do it with the MCAT. The test is not so much about content as it is testing strategies and knowing what they are asking you. I would go to the MCAT side of the forum and try and get on a decent study schedule. The best thing you can do is practice tests and questions. I did over 20 practice tests in order to get my 506. Goodluck.
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Also you cannot settle with "average" letters of recommendation, this can really kill your app. You want letters that are going to say you were in the top 5% of students or that you were a godsend to have help with charting and would be a benefit to any program that would have you.
I would suggest trying to build strong connections with some physicians (it would be wise to try and get multiple DO letters of recommendation as well.)
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What ethnicity?
Your Postbac/MS....did this have any linkage?
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African American. Nope it just “increases your chances” of an interview at that Med school. I only know of 1 person from my class that get in there.
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Even with a 500 MCAT during a very competitive cycle, I'm surprised that you didn't get any love. You may have a bad LOR.
Head on over to the MCAT forum and see what advice they have.
Have many times have you taken the exam, and what were your scores?
jolivo17
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Hi @Goro,
I didn't do so well as an undergraduate.
I just graduated in Biology with a 2.5 GPA with a minor in chemistry and business. I was also in the board of clubs like GMT and HOSA, whic are popular pre-med clubs, at my school. I was actually the president in one of them.
This is the exact opposite of what happened when I graduated highschool - above a 4.0, many honors, extracurricular activities, etc.
Now, I know this is my fault. I always took 17, 18, or 19 credits as an undergrad, I had consistent problems in a romantic relationship, and well the pandemic happened too which created a lot of problems at home. The problems at home didn't let me study enough for the MCAT so I scored below a 500. Like i said, I know this is my fault. I also have some volunteer hours at VCU Hospital and no clinical experience. I really messed up Undergrad and I realize my mistakes.
In my last semester which was Spring 2021, I actually failed two classes (due to problems at home) which I'm retaking this summer. So I don't have an upward trend.
But I'm still highly interested in medical school to hopefully become a cardiologist (i'm not sure if being a cardiologist is an option anymore).
From your post, I think the best thing I can first do is resolve my own issues. Then do a DIY post-bacc at the college I went to? I mostly have Cs and Bs in my science courses. Or do you think getting a masters or getting into a post-bacc program is a better option? I know I have to get a good MCAT score, clinical hours, and volunteer hours in during the time i'm in post-bacc or doing a masters.
Thank you for your help.
I didn't do so well as an undergraduate.
I just graduated in Biology with a 2.5 GPA with a minor in chemistry and business. I was also in the board of clubs like GMT and HOSA, whic are popular pre-med clubs, at my school. I was actually the president in one of them.
This is the exact opposite of what happened when I graduated highschool - above a 4.0, many honors, extracurricular activities, etc.
Now, I know this is my fault. I always took 17, 18, or 19 credits as an undergrad, I had consistent problems in a romantic relationship, and well the pandemic happened too which created a lot of problems at home. The problems at home didn't let me study enough for the MCAT so I scored below a 500. Like i said, I know this is my fault. I also have some volunteer hours at VCU Hospital and no clinical experience. I really messed up Undergrad and I realize my mistakes.
In my last semester which was Spring 2021, I actually failed two classes (due to problems at home) which I'm retaking this summer. So I don't have an upward trend.
But I'm still highly interested in medical school to hopefully become a cardiologist (i'm not sure if being a cardiologist is an option anymore).
From your post, I think the best thing I can first do is resolve my own issues. Then do a DIY post-bacc at the college I went to? I mostly have Cs and Bs in my science courses. Or do you think getting a masters or getting into a post-bacc program is a better option? I know I have to get a good MCAT score, clinical hours, and volunteer hours in during the time i'm in post-bacc or doing a masters.
Thank you for your help.
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1) Fix the issues that caused you to crater.
2) do a year or two of DIY POSTBAC.
3) Take MCAT only when you are 100% ready for it.
4) a postbac program is more for career switchers, so consider SMP only if doing well in postbac fails to net you any love.
Hey @Goro ,
I'm a career changer (10+ years since UG) doing a DIY post bacc to cover some missing pre-reqs and also to do some GPA repair. Current UG cGPA is 3.02, sGPA 2.76. My first two years were dismal and the last two better (3.3ish) after I switched majors. I've already taken one post-bacc class and received an A.
1) How many classes per semester should I be taking? I work 50 hours a week on average and do want to get all As in all of my classes, but also want show adcoms that I can handle a heavier course load. I'm thinking of doing two classes per regular semester and one in the summer. I will be taking classes, working and doing a combination of volunteering/shadowing during the next few years, so I want to make sure what I choose is sustainable long term.
2) As a career changer, should I be taking all pre-reqs plus some upper level bio? Right now, I need to take Gen Chem 2, Bio 2, Ochem 1/2, Biochem, plus all corresponding labs, 1 semester of writing/English, maybe psych/soc. I will be studying for and taking the MCAT after I take biochem. I'm thinking of adding 2-3 upper level bio classes (Physiology, Neuroscience, Cell Bio, etc.) afterwards if I do well on the MCAT, and then apply that following year. I may need the upper level bio to help bring my GPA even higher (at best it would be 3.18 cum and 3.31 science if I get all As in my prereqs), so I'm expecting to do it, but would love your input.
Thanks!
I'm a career changer (10+ years since UG) doing a DIY post bacc to cover some missing pre-reqs and also to do some GPA repair. Current UG cGPA is 3.02, sGPA 2.76. My first two years were dismal and the last two better (3.3ish) after I switched majors. I've already taken one post-bacc class and received an A.
1) How many classes per semester should I be taking? I work 50 hours a week on average and do want to get all As in all of my classes, but also want show adcoms that I can handle a heavier course load. I'm thinking of doing two classes per regular semester and one in the summer. I will be taking classes, working and doing a combination of volunteering/shadowing during the next few years, so I want to make sure what I choose is sustainable long term.
2) As a career changer, should I be taking all pre-reqs plus some upper level bio? Right now, I need to take Gen Chem 2, Bio 2, Ochem 1/2, Biochem, plus all corresponding labs, 1 semester of writing/English, maybe psych/soc. I will be studying for and taking the MCAT after I take biochem. I'm thinking of adding 2-3 upper level bio classes (Physiology, Neuroscience, Cell Bio, etc.) afterwards if I do well on the MCAT, and then apply that following year. I may need the upper level bio to help bring my GPA even higher (at best it would be 3.18 cum and 3.31 science if I get all As in my prereqs), so I'm expecting to do it, but would love your input.
Thanks!
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Given the need to make a living two classes /semester plus one in the summer should suffice.
As a career changer, should I be taking all pre-reqs plus some upper level bio?
You plans sound good.
Great, I will carry on with the plan. Many thanks!
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Asking for a friend
So I have a subpar science GPA (2.8ish), a 506 MCAT (will likely expire by application time), and am admittedly very weak on ECs except for shadowing and nonclinical volunteering (strong and have LoRs in both categories).
I applied to SMPs along with medical schools this year, and got accepted to my state school SMP (no linkages of any kind). My question is, assuming I can handle the workload, should I do ECs alongside my SMP, so that I can be competitive after my SMP has finished?
@Goro@candbgirl
So I have a subpar science GPA (2.8ish), a 506 MCAT (will likely expire by application time), and am admittedly very weak on ECs except for shadowing and nonclinical volunteering (strong and have LoRs in both categories).
I applied to SMPs along with medical schools this year, and got accepted to my state school SMP (no linkages of any kind). My question is, assuming I can handle the workload, should I do ECs alongside my SMP, so that I can be competitive after my SMP has finished?
@Goro@candbgirl
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Recipe for disaster. Focus on SMP, and get in ECs before and after. This is a marathon now, not sprint. If you're hoping for MD, then an MCAT retake and doing 510+ will be needed.
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No. This is your last chance to convince ADCOMS that you can handle the rigors of med school. This is not the time to work on your ECs. You have waited this long to build your ECs another year after your SMP won’t make a difference. Don’t worry about research- you most likely won’t be applying to schools that require/expect it.
Your job during the SMP is to work hard and get a 3.7+. GPA. If you can’t prove to ADCOMS you are a competitive student you won’t have to worry about ECs. Good luck in the next couple of years.
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Would something a bit more minimal be OK, like 4-6 hrs a week of clinical volunteering? With that sprinkled into my SMP year, my application would check all the boxes and be ready right?
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Ultimately it is totally up to you what you do and how you spend your time. You know yourself better than anyone. But remember, this SMP is your last shot to convince ADCOMS you are ready for Med School.
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Just try what everyone is saying and deal with ECs during a gap year. You don’t want to end up here next year asking “Can I still get into medical school if I do a second SMP?”.
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what med schools would you recommend? applying not this cycle but the next
mcat 521
stem gpas
regular GPAs
over 2000 clinical hours
current clinical research RA, no pubs
over 2000 hours volunteering
white female not low SES
nontrad graduated undergrad in 2017
mcat 521
stem gpas
| Freshman | 2.25 (16) credits | ||
| Sophomore | 4.00 (4) | ||
| Junior | 3.75 (16) | ||
| Senior | 3.80 (20) | ||
| Postbac | 3.67 (56) 3.79 last 36 credits |
regular GPAs
| Freshman | 2.50 (24) | ||
| Sophomore | 3.75 (16) | ||
| Junior | 3.57 (28) | ||
| Senior | 3.73 (44) | ||
| Postbac | 3.67 (56) |
over 2000 clinical hours
current clinical research RA, no pubs
over 2000 hours volunteering
white female not low SES
nontrad graduated undergrad in 2017
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I’ll let the big guns give the school list but your app looks awesome EC wise! The MCAT is awesome too and the postbac is alright. With that GPA/MCAT combo, I’d aim for both mid/high MD schools along with DO schools if you can get a physicians letter.
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I agree, awesome reinvention.
I suggest:
NYU
Columbia
WashU (maybe)
Stanford (maybe)
Vandy
Dartmouth
BU
Duke
Pitt
Mayo
Mt Sinai
Keck
Temple
UCSF
EVMS
Hofstra
Emory
Jefferson
U VM
Miami
Drexel
Albany
Tufts
NYMC
TCU/UNT
Your state schools
Rush
Loyola
Rosy Franklin
Tulane
Wake
MCW
SLU
Creighton
Wayne State
Netter
NovaMD
NYU.LI
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@Goro trying to help out a mentee of mine with her DIY postbac. She's got a 3.0/3.1 with no upward or downward trend. already took prereqs and a couple upper levels. would 28-30 credits over this next academic year (Fall 2021/Spring 2022) be enough if she does well? or does she need more credits?
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Should be okay as long as she does well on the MCAT as well.
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~30 is what I recommend.
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Awesome thanks!
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Yes for sure. Thanks!
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Hello Everyone, I recently graduated from my university and I wanted to know if I had successfully reinvented myself. The images below show my overall trend for both cGPA and sGPA. I extended my senior year into a 5th year which explains the amount of science credits taken. 45/62 credits included in my senior year sGPA were all upper division biology classes including: Genetics, Physiology , Biochemistry, Evolution, etc. at my 4 year university. The remaining 17 science credits taken and the additional 10 science credits in my post-bacc were at my local community college and consisted of classes like nutrition and health science classes. Overall, in my last 120 credits my cGPA and sGPA are at 3.55 and 3.63 respectively. Additionally, I have taken the MCAT and scored a 510. Ultimately, I want to know if I need any additional reinvention.
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