Goro's advice for pre-meds who need reinvention

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I still feel like there are many people who are advised on this forum to keep trying to improve their apps when in actuality doing so is very likely a lost cause. I think it is disingenuous to encourage people with abysmal GPA/MCATs to keep spending time/money to get in when there are thousands of people with much better metrics who took those same steps and were still unsuccessful reapplying. Long before I was ever a pre-med I had aspirations to become a concert violinist. In my teenage years, I poured everything I had into trying to make this a reality and for a while I thought it was going quite well. I was the highest ranked orchestral student in my high school and made got a partial scholarship to pursue music at my state's largest university. Early in college, I got a role in a semi-professional orchestra and had the opportunity a year later to audition for a major symphony orchestra out of state. After my audition the conductor asked me if I wanted his candid advice, which I asked to hear. To make a long discussion short, he told me that he had auctioned thousands of candidates in his career and thinks I would be best advised to give up pursuing music on a professional level. Naturally, I was upset at the time, but in hindsight after much reflection, I realized I would have wasted a lot more time on that path getting nowhere as I would have been clearly outmatched if I continued. I must say that going through this pre-med process is really bringing back a lot memories. I think that sometimes the momentary sting of realizing you are not good enough is better than spending years chasing a goal that was never meant to be. I think this is unfortunately what some aspiring medical students need to hear. If I had had a pre-med advisor tell me several years ago something like what that conductor told me while I was in college, I would likely be a much happier person today.
 
I still feel like there are many people who are advised on this forum to keep trying to improve their apps when in actuality doing so is very likely a lost cause. I think it is disingenuous to encourage people with abysmal GPA/MCATs to keep spending time/money to get in when there are thousands of people with much better metrics who took those same steps and were still unsuccessful reapplying. Long before I was ever a pre-med I had aspirations to become a concert violinist. In my teenage years, I poured everything I had into trying to make this a reality and for a while I thought it was going quite well. I was the highest ranked orchestral student in my high school and made got a partial scholarship to pursue music at my state's largest university. Early in college, I got a role in a semi-professional orchestra and had the opportunity a year later to audition for a major symphony orchestra out of state. After my audition the conductor asked me if I wanted his candid advice, which I asked to hear. To make a long discussion short, he told me that he had auctioned thousands of candidates in his career and thinks I would be best advised to give up pursuing music on a professional level. Naturally, I was upset at the time, but in hindsight after much reflection, I realized I would have wasted a lot more time on that path getting nowhere as I would have been clearly outmatched if I continued. I must say that going through this pre-med process is really bringing back a lot memories. I think that sometimes the momentary sting of realizing you are not good enough is better than spending years chasing a goal that was never meant to be. I think this is unfortunately what some aspiring medical students need to hear. If I had had a pre-med advisor tell me several years ago something like what that conductor told me while I was in college, I would likely be a much happier person today.
I can appreciate that. I went into this process as an "ultra" nontrad not expecting to get in, and I've indeed had no luck so far. The hard part is knowing what the problems are with my app and whether they are fixable, so I come to SDN (and other resources) to ask for information and feedback. I'm grateful to everyone who offers me the information that I myself have asked for. If an applicant says they're going to try again no matter what, and SDNers say ok, well if that's the case, then here are the best things you could do from where you are... it's kind of hard to fault someone for that, right? Most of the people offering longshot advice are the same people who get slammed when they offer tough-love advice, and I'm sure you've seen plenty of the "you have no chance" posts too.

Sooo... you have a useful perspective and I'm glad that you're sharing it. No one can predict who's going to get in or not, though - it's a subjective process with way too many variables. Adcoms who have seen a lot of applications are just relaying the odds based on their experiences. It's up to each of us to decide what to do with that information.
 
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I still feel like there are many people who are advised on this forum to keep trying to improve their apps when in actuality doing so is very likely a lost cause. I think it is disingenuous to encourage people with abysmal GPA/MCATs to keep spending time/money to get in when there are thousands of people with much better metrics who took those same steps and were still unsuccessful reapplying. Long before I was ever a pre-med I had aspirations to become a concert violinist. In my teenage years, I poured everything I had into trying to make this a reality and for a while I thought it was going quite well. I was the highest ranked orchestral student in my high school and made got a partial scholarship to pursue music at my state's largest university. Early in college, I got a role in a semi-professional orchestra and had the opportunity a year later to audition for a major symphony orchestra out of state. After my audition the conductor asked me if I wanted his candid advice, which I asked to hear. To make a long discussion short, he told me that he had auctioned thousands of candidates in his career and thinks I would be best advised to give up pursuing music on a professional level. Naturally, I was upset at the time, but in hindsight after much reflection, I realized I would have wasted a lot more time on that path getting nowhere as I would have been clearly outmatched if I continued. I must say that going through this pre-med process is really bringing back a lot memories. I think that sometimes the momentary sting of realizing you are not good enough is better than spending years chasing a goal that was never meant to be. I think this is unfortunately what some aspiring medical students need to hear. If I had had a pre-med advisor tell me several years ago something like what that conductor told me while I was in college, I would likely be a much happier person today.

You average premed advisor does not know much more about medical school than a person who has access to google. So listening to someone like that does not help you in anyway. I only used my premed advisor for the committee letter. Otherwise, I got all of the useful insight about med schools from SDN and friends who were already in medical school.
 
Which SMPs would you recommend?
Only those programs that are linked to the medical school.

Programs that have an interview process and require a MCAT score for admission. It is harder to get into these programs, but if you do get admitted, it is a good indication that you are good enough for the MD class (granted you can do well in the SMP).

Do not go to a program that has MCAT prep built into the program. Taking medical school classes and studying for the MCAT is a recipe for disaster.

Choose an SMP that has the least amount of credits. You are trying to get the best grades possible, not overwhelm yourself and fail.

Some programs offer an advanced standing in their MD class, meaning that you don't have to retake these classes during M1.
 
I still feel like there are many people who are advised on this forum to keep trying to improve their apps when in actuality doing so is very likely a lost cause. I think it is disingenuous to encourage people with abysmal GPA/MCATs to keep spending time/money to get in when there are thousands of people with much better metrics who took those same steps and were still unsuccessful reapplying. Long before I was ever a pre-med I had aspirations to become a concert violinist. In my teenage years, I poured everything I had into trying to make this a reality and for a while I thought it was going quite well. I was the highest ranked orchestral student in my high school and made got a partial scholarship to pursue music at my state's largest university. Early in college, I got a role in a semi-professional orchestra and had the opportunity a year later to audition for a major symphony orchestra out of state. After my audition the conductor asked me if I wanted his candid advice, which I asked to hear. To make a long discussion short, he told me that he had auctioned thousands of candidates in his career and thinks I would be best advised to give up pursuing music on a professional level. Naturally, I was upset at the time, but in hindsight after much reflection, I realized I would have wasted a lot more time on that path getting nowhere as I would have been clearly outmatched if I continued. I must say that going through this pre-med process is really bringing back a lot memories. I think that sometimes the momentary sting of realizing you are not good enough is better than spending years chasing a goal that was never meant to be. I think this is unfortunately what some aspiring medical students need to hear. If I had had a pre-med advisor tell me several years ago something like what that conductor told me while I was in college, I would likely be a much happier person today.


There are a lot of success stories, I'm one of them. But, those who don't get in seldom come back to post about it. I think it is helpful that you did.

I actually agree with a lot of what you say here. There are times when I get frustrated by the advice given on these boards. Someone will show up with a 2.21 gpa, no upward trend, a 489 MCAT. Medicine is their calling and now they are going to get a 4.0 from now on, except for the C- they are getting in their Bio 1 retake this semester (only class, starting slow). Also does that hit-and-run last month matter? Without fail someone will tell them to go for their dream (always another pre-med). Without any evidence that this student has the ability to turn things around, it is cruel to encourage them to keep going.

Even with evidence of a genuine turn-around, as Goro says, "Always have a plan B." One of the important steps for me in deciding to go for it was that I had several points along the way at which I would switch to plan B if things didn't go well (ex. Fail first semester, Horrible MCAT, Two failed application cycles MD&DO).

So yes, you are correct. BUT... it doesn't look like most of that advice applies to you. Your GPA and MCAT are well within the range for DO schools. I don't think that is what kept you out. 4 MCAT scores isn't good, but until the last one you had an upward trend. I have no idea what happened with your cycles, but based on what you have shared here, I don't think anyone could have predicted that things would go this way for you. Whether you decide to try applying again, or move on to your plan B (podiatry?), I wish you all the best.
 
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Only those programs that are linked to the medical school.

Programs that have an interview process and require a MCAT score for admission. It is harder to get into these programs, but if you do get admitted, it is a good indication that you are good enough for the MD class (granted you can do well in the SMP).

Do not go to a program that has MCAT prep built into the program. Taking medical school classes and studying for the MCAT is a recipe for disaster.

Choose an SMP that has the least amount of credits. You are trying to get the best grades possible, not overwhelm yourself and fail.

Some programs offer an advanced standing in their MD class, meaning that you don't have to retake these classes during M1.
Awesome intel, thank you! I like that last option the best. 🙂
 
Well seeing that Philadelphia is about to upset New England, I guess anything out there may be possible. Granted, it only took them several decades to get their first and only Super Bowl championship win, but maybe a certain level of selfless perseverence may allow wanted results to pan out some times.
 
PS: If I see that one kid suggest podiatry school one more time to students aspiring for medical school with low stats, just because he gave up and didn't want to put in the work, I swear..

/end rant and feel free to PM me any questions you might have! BUT, use the search function first. I assure you, any question your neurotic pre-med mind can come up with has already been answered.
 
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I recommend ones given at a med school. They become the backdoor into that school.

Avoid two year programs..no need for that.

Also go for one that have direct linkage like at LECOM (you pass with 3.x GPA you're accepted).

The next best ones are those that have guaranteed interviews if your GPA is above 3.x

To tell the truth, these programs are a dime-a-dozen, so take you pick and be prepared to relocate if needed.

For taking a gap year, would you recommend doing the SMP in the gap year and then other activities after you complete it/during the application year? I'm thinking of doing the BU, Tufts or Temple SMP and then full-time scribing or Americorps (not sure how flexible this would be with interviews though) during the application year
 
For taking a gap year, would you recommend doing the SMP in the gap year and then other activities after you complete it/during the application year? I'm thinking of doing the BU, Tufts or Temple SMP and then full-time scribing or Americorps (not sure how flexible this would be with interviews though) during the application year
II think SMP-> gap year with Ecs is the better path.
 
It depends upon how many credits you're taking.
I graduate this May with a 3.35 cgpa & 3.0 sgpa. Was planning on taking 10 credits in the summer, and then 30 for the 2018-19 academic year which would hopefully bring me up to a 3.5 cgpa & 3.36 sgpa. Is this enough? Thanks for your help.
 
It depends upon how many credits you're taking.
Is 30 units for 1 year ok? (15 a semester)

I graduate this May with a 3.35 cgpa & 3.0 sgpa. Was planning on taking 10 credits in the summer, and then 30 for the 2018-19 academic year which would hopefully bring me up to a 3.5 cgpa & 3.36 sgpa. Is this enough? Thanks for your help.

Im planning on taking the same amount
 
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Yes, that should be fine.

Awesome! I'm going to be taking coursework similar to Medical School (Anatomy, Biochem, Immunology, Endocrinology etc.) and taking the MCAT in January. I'm excited to be applying! Hopefully my sGPA (3.3 at time of applying) will be good enough even though my cGPA will still be low (2.6) -- if I get straight A's this upcoming 2018-2019 school year 🙂
 
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Awesome! I'm going to be taking coursework similar to Medical School (Anatomy, Biochem, Immunology, Endocrinology etc.) and taking the MCAT in January. I'm excited to be applying! Hopefully my sGPA (3.2 at time of applying) will be good enough even though my cGPA will still be low (2.68) -- if I get straight A's this upcoming 2018-2019 school year 🙂
Good luck! And keep in touch with us.
 
If a candidate has 4-5 years of a very strong upward trend at a new university (3.5 -> 4.0, avg 3.7, well over 120 credits in upper division courses) but their cumulative GPA is still sub 3.0 thanks to their past transcript, how would this be seen? What I mean by that question is will their cGPA be overlooked since there is obviously more to the story, or would they be screened out immediately without any deeper examination?
 
If a candidate has 4-5 years of a very strong upward trend at a new university (3.5 -> 4.0, avg 3.7, well over 120 credits in upper division courses) but their cumulative GPA is still sub 3.0 thanks to their past transcript, how would this be seen? What I mean by that question is will their cGPA be overlooked since there is obviously more to the story, or would they be screened out immediately without any deeper examination?
The AMCAS breaks down cGPA and BCPM GPA by year, so they would see the trend clearly. How much weight they put in rising trends would likely depend on the school.
 
If a candidate has 4-5 years of a very strong upward trend at a new university (3.5 -> 4.0, avg 3.7, well over 120 credits in upper division courses) but their cumulative GPA is still sub 3.0 thanks to their past transcript, how would this be seen? What I mean by that question is will their cGPA be overlooked since there is obviously more to the story, or would they be screened out immediately without any deeper examination?
There are med schools that have tons of people who sailed through UG with near perfect records and are happy with those. But there are others that like come-from-behind stories and put more weight on the last 2-3 years of UG rather than the whole cGPA. I know that 3.0 is this magic number that SDNers fixate upon, but there are schools that will look at the reject pile for "diamonds in the rough". These seem to include your state school, DO schools and also a number of schools in the Drexel/Albany class. Because this is a special case, it's best to reach out to Admissions deans to find out if one is competitive for their school, and look at MSAR Online to see how low the school's 10th %iles are. In addition, MSAR reports # of students coming from post-bac programs, so the larger the number the more optimistic the picture should be.
 
So you want to be a doctor, but your GPA is terrible. Is that the end? Rule #1: Take a deep breath, and stop fussing. The sky is not falling.

But you are going to need to reinvent yourself. This will take both time and money. And always remember that you’re in a marathon now, not a sprint. The following advice holds true for people considering MD and DO. I strongly recommend that you keep both in mind, and the latter is more tolerant of reinvention.

EDIT: An even better summary to the next paragraph is provided by the wise HomeSkool here: Simple rules for retaking courses

Here’s what you need to do :

a) IF you have F/D grades in the pre-reqs, retake them. You need to show that you can master this material, and it will help you for MCAT (assuming that you haven’t taken the MCAT). In addition, many schools require a C or higher grade in pre-reqs. Naturally, this will vary from school to school.

If you got C's, take some upper level science classes and ace them. There is no need to retake a C unless you are very weak on the material and you need it for MCAT. Never, ever retake a B or B-.

If the material was from a long time ago, and you got a B, but you feel you need a refresher for the MCAT, simply audit the course instead.

b) There are MD schools that reward reinvention. All DO schools do. The DO path will be a little easier, but both still require an investment of 1-2 years of not GPA repair, but of transcript repair.

c) The goal is NOT to raise your cGPA to a sky high level (for some people this is mathematically impossible), but rather show that the you of now is not the you of then, and that you can handle a medical school curriculum. So do not worry that your cGPA will be 3.2 upon applying after finishing your post-bac/GPA. Rising GPA trends are always looked highly upon, and many med schools weight the last 2-3 years more than the entire cGPA.

d) Thus, take 1-2 years of a DIY post-bac, or a 1 year SMP, preferably one given at a medical school. Do well in either of these programs. A 3.5+ should suffice for a DO school, while 3.7+ will be needed for an MD school

e) in addition to d), your MCAT score will determine where to aim. I suggest:

513+ : MD schools

510+ : your state MD school and any DO school

505+: any DO school

500+: the newest DO schools

On top of these, get as much patient contact volunteering time in as possible. A trend I am seeing from SDNers who have received interviews from good schools and who also reinvented themselves, is that they have lots of clinical volunteering or employment...some even in the 1000s of hours.

As to the pluses and minuses of post-bac vs SMP:

A formal post-bac program is geared toward career switchers, and mostly provide the pre-reqs, and probably some MCAT advice/prep as well. You get faculty guidance in this and some programs seem to be feeders to med schools for non-trad students. They will cost more though.

Now, you can do the same thing on your own by simply taking continuing education courses at any nearby college. A four year school will be preferable to a community college (CC), but if costs are an issue, then a CC will be OK. This path is what is known here in SDN as the “DIY post-bac.” Costs will be less, but there’s no guidance.

What classes should one take in a DIY post-bac??? Things that mimic a medical school curriculum!

Anatomy
Physiology
Histology
Biostats
Cell Bio
Molecular Bio or Genetics
Biochem
Med Micro OR Bacteriology and/or Virology
Neuroscience
Immunology
Parasitology (if offered)
Pathology

An SMP (special master’s program) is one that offers medical school classes, or material that’s taught in medical school. These can be a backdoor into med school, and you get real advice from med school faculty (if given at a med school). Plus, you're a known quantity to the Adcom members, who will frequently be your SMP faculty. The down side is that the tuition will be more considerable. You may also have to relocate in order to attend one.

There are some two year SMPs, but I don’t see any advantage to these over one year programs.

Also, if you do poorly, your SMP degree is worthless, unless the program has an added-value component, like some research venue. Thus, SMPs are more high risk, but also high reward.

One final word of warning: Do NOT take the MCAT while enrolled in an SMP. We’ve seen students do this, and it leads to disaster. Some programs require an MCAT, so that solves the problem (although they may have a minimum score requirement!).

And remember, med schools aren’t going anywhere, and in fact, by the time you apply, several more will have opened their doors.

Good luck!
Hello Goro,

You appear to be someone whose opinion is well respected on SDN. I would welcome any feedback you (or others) would have concerning my application.

40yof, married, mother of three kids. I've been a practicing PA in EM for 12 years. Prior to that I was a radiographer, which funded my undergrad years.
BS Biology, 3.2 sGPA, 3.43 cGPA (2001) I completed it in 2.5 years. I was 20, impulsive and working full time as an xray tech, which hurt my GPA.
MPAS 3.55 (2004) from UF, so I have 20K+ hrs clinical experience
Undergrad: treasurer of premed society and fundraising activities; softball league
Work-travel many places, even overseas for 6 months
A few volunteer years performing free school physical exams for elementary/middle school kids
Once a local PA rep for statewide organization
Research not since PA school. Basically, case studies reviewed of a renal disease.
IVF for 8 years, finally able to return to school this year.
+ a few other ECs.
MCAT 498 (Aug 2017)
MCAT 503 (July 2017)

Prior to my application, my husband returned to fellowship training in med tox. He didn't have to repeat medical school biochem to apply (he was 20 years out of residency), so we thought same would apply to me, which is why I didn't repeat undergrad science courses. I applied to 12 DO schools, got 2 interviews, 1 rejection and 1 wait-listed. I applied to some MD schools as well, no interviews.

My rejection from Touro NY was kind of expected. I had a bad "off" vibe going into my interview and I think it bled through and it didn't go as well as I wanted. I won't be reapplying here.
My wait listed interview at ACOM was disappointing. I felt good post interview and really liked the program and faculty, but maybe my radar for detection of poor interview is a little off. I assumed when programs offer an interview they are satisfied with course work and MCAT, and just want to make sure your sincere and driven and not a narcissistic sociopath.

I know I can do better on MCAT. I took 1 practice exam prior test, but reviewed course work well. With repeat practice exams, I can improve this score. Do you think my older course work and B average GPA is what hurts me the most? MCAT? When other PAs/NPs apply to your program, does it hurt their application? Meaning, the applicant looks indecisive about projected path?

I want to reapply next cycle. I am registered to start DIY post bacc in May to take high level science courses at a 4 yr uni. Should I retake MCAT in June or 3rd time retake looks bad? Is my reapplication too soon considering I might only have 16 credit hours to start on my app?

I would greatly appreciate your feedback!
 
I know I can do better on MCAT. I took 1 practice exam prior test, but reviewed course work well. With repeat practice exams, I can improve this score.
I can't recommend a repeat unless you are scoring very well on practice exams.

Do you think my older course work and B average GPA is what hurts me the most? MCAT?
The old GPA are hurting. I need to know that you can handle med school now. Knowledge decay is a real thing, as is the decline in learning skills, especially for a med school environs. Thus I recommend a DUY post-bac or SMP.


When other PAs/NPs apply to your program, does it hurt their application? Meaning, the applicant looks indecisive about projected path?
To tell the truth, we rarely see PAs or NPs (or RNs for that matter) apply to our program. I don't think it would hurt.

I want to reapply next cycle. I am registered to start DIY post bacc in May to take high level science courses at a 4 yr uni.
Very good

Should I retake MCAT in June or 3rd time retake looks bad?
I think that with a broad application, you'll do fine. Thus, don't retake.

Is my reapplication too soon considering I might only have 16 credit hours to start on my app?
Yes
 
But there are others that like come-from-behind stories ... there are schools that will look at the reject pile for "diamonds in the rough".
Oh you... still thinking that lump of carbon can be me...
How many students with a cGPA of 2.7 have you observed gain successful admission to a medical school?
There is an entire thread on this forum about the Below 3.0 support and it is loaded with those who got accepted (both allo and osteo).
 
I know I can do better on MCAT. I took 1 practice exam prior test, but reviewed course work well. With repeat practice exams, I can improve this score.
I can't recommend a repeat unless you are scoring very well on practice exams.

Do you think my older course work and B average GPA is what hurts me the most? MCAT?
The old GPA are hurting. I need to know that you can handle med school now. Knowledge decay is a real thing, as is the decline in learning skills, especially for a med school environs. Thus I recommend a DUY post-bac or SMP.


When other PAs/NPs apply to your program, does it hurt their application? Meaning, the applicant looks indecisive about projected path?
To tell the truth, we rarely see PAs or NPs (or RNs for that matter) apply to our program. I don't think it would hurt.

I want to reapply next cycle. I am registered to start DIY post bacc in May to take high level science courses at a 4 yr uni.
Very good

Should I retake MCAT in June or 3rd time retake looks bad?
I think that with a broad application, you'll do fine. Thus, don't retake.

Is my reapplication too soon considering I might only have 16 credit hours to start on my app?
Yes
Much thanks!
 
Yesss just got accepted to a Post-Bacc in CA (2nd bachelors program at a CSU for Biology). I'm thinking 1 year of upper div bio classes and then apply next June 🙂
 
So to be clear, a sub 3.0 cGPA isnt lethal correct? Only asking bc I told my pre med advisor that I was planning to do a 1 yr post bacc program with 48 credits so it can bring my sGPA to a 3.2 and cGPA to a 2.93 and then apply. He then said that it wouldn't be enough and that I might also need a SMP.
 
1 year post bacc with 48 credits?

Are you kidding?

No bc I took a lot of my pre med requisites already and have an upward trend in my GPA...unless you're referring to the amount of credits? They also include summer classes
 
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If you bite off more than you can chew, it will only hurt... You can do a year of 30 credits as an unofficial post-bacc and it will look just as good. At this point you care more about the upward trend and how long you demonstrate it than the decimal points after the 3.
 
This is missing one little thing in my opinion.

Remember, DO is a far better option than Caribbean MD if you plan on practicing in the US. Reinventing yourself is a far better option than going Caribbean.
But not if you need sun, beach and a rest durely. lol
 
i go to a top 10 school known for grade deflation, and my freshman year i got a gpa in the mid to low 3s. however, during that time, my mother was diagnosed with breast cancer and i was ill for about six weeks, so i can write that as a circumstance. i have 100+ shadowing hours, 250+ research hours, volunteer in two clinical locations, and am involved on campus with multiple clubs and am on exec for one of them.. if i can raise my gpa to a 3.4-3.5 junior year and get a 510+ mcat score, would i have a chance at getting into a decent med school? advice for improvement without postbac (that's preferably a last resort!)


I'm sorry about your health and your mother's. I think both are appropriate to talk about. Try to focus on how you grew from the experiences. You definitely still have a shot at med school. Your application will probably be much stronger if you wait until senior year to apply. Your GPA will have the benefit of another year of A's to pull it up.

Do NOT mention your school being known for grade deflation. No one will have any sympathy for that excuse.
 
If I'm doing a DIY-postbacc, how many hours of upper level bio courses (already have a bio degree) should I take? Should I try to get >30 hours (a master's degree at that point?)
 
Yesss just got accepted to a Post-Bacc in CA (2nd bachelors program at a CSU for Biology). I'm thinking 1 year of upper div bio classes and then apply next June 🙂

Just curious for a friend but doing the second bachelors at CSU was on for specific degrees. On their website it says:

"CSULB accepts applications for a second baccalaureate degree only from highly qualified applicants to the following majors: Nursing, Engineering, Mathematics, Foreign Languages, and Natural Sciences (excluding options in Biological Sciences)"

Are you still able to take straight upper div bio classes?
 
Just curious for a friend but doing the second bachelors at CSU was on for specific degrees. On their website it says:

"CSULB accepts applications for a second baccalaureate degree only from highly qualified applicants to the following majors: Nursing, Engineering, Mathematics, Foreign Languages, and Natural Sciences (excluding options in Biological Sciences)"

Are you still able to take straight upper div bio classes?

Yes. I am going to be doing the 2nd Bachelors at Cal State Bakersfield this Fall. I did my research on CSULB and it looks like the best route would be the B.S. in Biochemistry (2nd bachelors) as it incorporates both upper div bio and some upper div chem.

I also believe they start accepting applications in August.
 
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Yes. I am going to be doing the 2nd Bachelors at Cal State Bakersfield this Fall. I did my research on CSULB and it looks like the best route would be the B.S. in Biochemistry (2nd bachelors) as it incorporates both upper div bio and some upper div chem.

That's so strange because on the site it said second bachelors only in: Nursing, Engineering, Mathematics, Foreign Languages, and Natural Sciences (excluding options in Biological Sciences.)

Unless, I am on the completely wrong schools site (which could very well be the case)
Second Bachelors Degree
 
That's so strange because on the site it said second bachelors only in: Nursing, Engineering, Mathematics, Foreign Languages, and Natural Sciences (excluding options in Biological Sciences.)

Unless, I am on the completely wrong schools site (which could very well be the case)
Second Bachelors Degree
No it's the correct site. Natural Sciences at CSULB encompasses Biology, chemistry and physics. You are excluded from choosing a major under Biology, but can choose one under Chemistry or Physics. If you choose chemistry, you can do Biochemistry. Its multi-layered lol
 
No it's the correct site. Natural Sciences at CSULB encompasses Biology, chemistry and physics. You are excluded from choosing a major under Biology, but can choose one under Chemistry or Physics. If you choose chemistry, you can do Biochemistry. Its multi-layered lol

Awesome! Thanks for clarifying
 
Hey @Goro! I'm getting ready to apply this cycle and had some questions about my school list if you don't mind, specifically regarding DO schools

Here's a bit about me (also made a WAMC thread if you'd rather check that out)
IL resident
3.2 cGPA and sGPA on AMCAS, 3.3 sGPA on AACOMAS
Multiple transfers, but 3.7 GPA the last 90 hours at most recent school
514 MCAT

I've been going mainly off of what you have said here and in other threads throughout this whole process (thanks btw, you're amazing! haha) so here's the school list I have so far:

DO
CCOM
RVUCOM
DMU
NSU
PCOM
KCU
KCOM
MUCOM

MD

U of I
SIU
Rosalind Franklin
Rush
Loyola
Western Michigan, Wayne State and OUWB (have ties to MI)
Creighton
MCW
NYMC
Albany
Wake Forest
Tulane
Quinnipiac
Seton Hall
NSU

How does the DO to MD ratio look? I'm planning on applying to ~30 schools so I'm just wondering if I should focus on one or the other given my status as a reinventor.

Thanks!
 
Hey @Goro! I'm getting ready to apply this cycle and had some questions about my school list if you don't mind, specifically regarding DO schools

Here's a bit about me (also made a WAMC thread if you'd rather check that out)
IL resident
3.2 cGPA and sGPA on AMCAS, 3.3 sGPA on AACOMAS
Multiple transfers, but 3.7 GPA the last 90 hours at most recent school
514 MCAT

I've been going mainly off of what you have said here and in other threads throughout this whole process (thanks btw, you're amazing! haha) so here's the school list I have so far:

DO
CCOM
RVUCOM
DMU
NSU
PCOM
KCU
KCOM
MUCOM

MD

U of I
SIU
Rosalind Franklin
Rush
Loyola
Western Michigan, Wayne State and OUWB (have ties to MI)
Creighton
MCW
NYMC
Albany
Wake Forest
Tulane
Quinnipiac
Seton Hall
NSU

How does the DO to MD ratio look? I'm planning on applying to ~30 schools so I'm just wondering if I should focus on one or the other given my status as a reinventor.

Thanks!
It's a good list
 
Hey @Goro, how does med school see non-SMP master degree? Given the fact that master GPA is not count on the GPA section when applying for med school, is a high GPA master degree not helpful for the application?
 
Hey @Goro, how does med school see non-SMP master degree? Given the fact that master GPA is not count on the GPA section when applying for med school, is a high GPA master degree not helpful for the application?
The gGPA counts for DO, but not for MD. However, if the degree is a non-science degree, then it won't be given any serious consideration.
 
The gGPA counts for DO, but not for MD. However, if the degree is a non-science degree, then it won't be given any serious consideration.
That means it is technically better to do a post-bacc than a master?!
 
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