Gunners Anonymous

[zeloc]

From what I know, gunners are those who want to do well at anothers expense. They lie, won't share all tests, hypercompetitive and don't care who they step over. They will tell people wrong info, just to do better than the other guy. Now there is nothing wrong with being competitive, just don't step over others to get to your goal. I too am very competitive, but I don't step over others to do well. But you are right in med school, everyone is hypercompetitive. To even make it to med school everyone has to be competitive.

That summarizes a gunner nicely. Also, studying hard doesn't equate with being a gunner. Not everyone studies hard. I know people who don't do much for a couple weeks and then study like crazy the couple weeks before a test. Sure, they might not do that well, but they pass, and you can't assume that everyone studies hard.

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[ice_23]

I don't think it is a matter of making others feel guilty. I think the point trying to be made is that as physicians, we do have some liablility to advance the field of medicine. Unfortunately, many of us chose our specialty more on lifestyle than anything else. This trend seems to have gotten worse over the past few years, as specialties such as derm and rads have become increasingly difficult to get into, while the standards for surgery and IM have decreased. It is just a little frightening to know that many of best and brightest opt for cush jobs. I suppose it is wrong to completely blame them, I mean, who wouldn't want to make 350K for working 4 days a week. I think a lot of the blame falls on the system. I realize there are many acceptions- a guy at my school got 266 on step 1 and is going into FP. However, the trend remains, and all I am saying is that it is unfortunate.

I completely agree with this sentiment. If only the payoff structure reflected the actual need of certain medical specialties, we'd be good (i.e. CT and Neurosurgeons would routinely make significantly more than others because demand for these professions are incredibly inelastic while acne busting dermatologists get paid less for their cush lifestyles). It just seems like the lifestyle/salary tradeoff isn't there, and there's no way to draw people into surgery and IM by increasing salary (government regulation, etc.).
-Ice

 

[Whisker Barrel Cortex]

Yikes! I cannot believe anyone would actually write this!! Go read some Ayn Rand will ya.

Holy crap, that is exactly what I was thinking. I am reading Atlas Shrugged right now and this post reminded me so much of the looters it was uncanny.

 

[Whisker Barrel Cortex]

all med studnets are gunners; by gunner= work hard; motivated by others knowing more than you etc.

the worst ones are the LIARS who pretend they dont study and aren't reading who have really read everythign 3-4 times.. but pretend not to -- just so they look super smart and you look super dumb for sitting in the library reading --while they hide in their house and read.

u know? so i agree: we should all admit we study hard. not a single one of us would be here otherwise.

all med studnets are gunners. get over it.

I believe this is misconception. Sure there may be some that pretend not to study much, but really do. Then there are some that really don't study much and are happy doing enough to get the class mean. That was me. I never told people how little I studied. The only people that found out were my roommates in second year. Sure I did average in preclinical. I liked clinicals a lot more and worked hard to do well. It worked for me.

 

[phoenixsupra]

I was hoping you'd sense the irony....husss..... You're Welcome.

Duh. "irony" sensed. Though it's actually sarcasm - the lowest form of wit. You seem to have missed the rolleyes emoticon. Try actually making a point next time. If you've got someting to say then flesh it out a bit. Otherwise you don't really deserve any more response than you got.

 

[phoenixsupra]

I hate gunners, but I tend to agree with Scootad on one thing...there is no obligation to help your classmates if you don't want to. It would be nice if you did, but you don't have to. I have helped so many people in our class, but they never came to my rescue when I was struggling last year. Why should I have to help any of them again?
Don't kid yourself people! Those 100 pages of notes that your classmates send out before exams are meant to psych you out not too help you!
If I could get into derm or rad, I would go in a heart beat. I am just not cut out for breathing, eating, and drinking medicine 365, 24, 7. I want to help my patients, but I also want to have a good lifestyle (and I believe there is no shame in wanting that as some of you imply).

That's a bit paranoid azzarah. There's a lot of psyching out in medschool, that's true. But MANY see through that. If that's what you focus on then thats ALL you'll see. There's a lot else going on too. There are quite a lot of ok folks who aren't succumbing to the hate engine that we're all being shoved through. When you view everyone with suspicion then they look back at you the same way and "prove" you right.

Working hard is fine. But "gunner" is a term of abuse. It doesn't really mean anything other than abuse. It's almost never applied with good reason. And it's never applied to super hard working students who happen to be in a popular click. Most people fear the G-term because most people work hard. But in reality it's only applied to unpopular people. Really, it's nothing more than bullying. That's why defending the abstract concept of what a "gunner" is is pointless. Better to pay it no mind. Or if you really must get into it then focus on those who are doing the name calling and what the hell they think they are doing. All of us are excellent scholers and are able to do the work. Yeah the work load is formidable. But what seems to get people down most is not the work but the level of hatred within the class. I really think we should get beyond the question of "what a gunner is" and deal with the real issue - bullying in medschool.

 

[Ypo.]

Duh. "irony" sensed. Though it's actually sarcasm - the lowest form of wit.

I always thought that doo-doo jokes were the lowest form of wit.

 

[phoenixsupra]

I always thought that doo-doo jokes were the lowest form of wit.

Ha ha. (Not sarcasm) That's pretty funny.

 

[phoenixsupra]

Holy crap, that is exactly what I was thinking. I am reading Atlas Shrugged right now and this post reminded me so much of the looters it was uncanny.

Before you get too into Ayn Rand read a bit about HER. She lived a miserable unhappy life.

 

[Siggy]

^
You could get that from reading her books too. Anyone who uses a character that "wants to be taken, forcefully" in a serious book needs to check into their local mental hospital.

 

[Whisker Barrel Cortex]

Before you get too into Ayn Rand read a bit about HER. She lived a miserable unhappy life.

I didn't say I agreed with her on most issues. Although I do on some. I think the 50 page soliloquy near the end of Atlas Shrugged is enough to make you wonder how sane she was.

 

[Philo Beddo]

I'm not arguing that a dermatologist is of lesser value to society than a neurologist - you only need to look at the rates of skin cancer to see the need is growing - but as a doctor rather than a specialist, you have some obligation, no?[/QUOTE]


I am.

A dermatologist is completely unnecessary for the treatment of any skin cancer.

Philo

hippocritis.com <--- great spoof on dermatologists this month.

 

[velo]

I am.

A dermatologist is completely unnecessary for the treatment of any skin cancer.

Philo

hippocritis.com <--- great spoof on dermatologists this month.

ha, yeah the derm magazine spoof was good, but this was better

 

[azzarah]

That's a bit paranoid azzarah. There's a lot of psyching out in medschool, that's true. But MANY see through that. If that's what you focus on then thats ALL you'll see. There's a lot else going on too. There are quite a lot of ok folks who aren't succumbing to the hate engine that we're all being shoved through. When you view everyone with suspicion then they look back at you the same way and "prove" you right.

Working hard is fine. But "gunner" is a term of abuse. It doesn't really mean anything other than abuse. It's almost never applied with good reason. And it's never applied to super hard working students who happen to be in a popular click. Most people fear the G-term because most people work hard. But in reality it's only applied to unpopular people. Really, it's nothing more than bullying. That's why defending the abstract concept of what a "gunner" is is pointless. Better to pay it no mind. Or if you really must get into it then focus on those who are doing the name calling and what the hell they think they are doing. All of us are excellent scholers and are able to do the work. Yeah the work load is formidable. But what seems to get people down most is not the work but the level of hatred within the class. I really think we should get beyond the question of "what a gunner is" and deal with the real issue - bullying in medschool.

I don't agree...I know someone who requests all the reserve books at the library the night before an exam so the rest of us wouldn't have access to them. Don't tell me I don't have a right to call him a gunner!
What other reason is there for e-mailing 100 pages of notes the night before an exam? If someone really wanted to help out, they would send their notes out earlier.
I was such a group-studier in undergrad...One thing I've learned in med school is to be independent and not let other people walk all over me.

 

[Siggy]

I didn't say I agreed with her on most issues. Although I do on some. I think the 50 page soliloquy near the end of Atlas Shrugged is enough to make you wonder how sane she was.

Damn you. I forgot about that part (I read it for extra-credit in high school)! For some, not-so-strange reason, I skipped that part after I got about a 3rd of the way into it after Galt had repeated himself for the 3000th time.

 

[Whisker Barrel Cortex]

Damn you. I forgot about that part (I read it for extra-credit in high school)! For some, not-so-strange reason, I skipped that part after I got about a 3rd of the way into it after Galt had repeated himself for the 3000th time.

So did I. I felt bad about it too, but realized I wasn't missing much. I just wanted to know what happens next.

 

[GoodMonkey]

atlas shrugged was always one of my favorite books, but more for the ideas/story than anything else. i read the longass monologue at the end once, and for every other time i've read the book (several) i just flat-out skipped it. seriously, ayn, we get it already.

the rest of the idea/story is really neat, though. especially how everything just unfolds. pretty cool.

 

[phoenixsupra]

I don't agree...I know someone who requests all the reserve books at the library the night before an exam so the rest of us wouldn't have access to them. Don't tell me I don't have a right to call him a gunner!
What other reason is there for e-mailing 100 pages of notes the night before an exam? If someone really wanted to help out, they would send their notes out earlier.
I was such a group-studier in undergrad...One thing I've learned in med school is to be independent and not let other people walk all over me.

Ok.. the guy who reserves all the books may actually deserve abuse...or suspension from medschool.

And yeah, 100 pages emailed on the eve of an exam is not particularly useful...to say the least. Some folks do do that sort of thing way earlier or share stuff they got from an upperclassman long before the exam. That's helpful. And yes it is hard to assemble a group to study in medschool. Let's just say I had to make a few replacements along the way...nuff said. But it can be done. Being independent is a good idea anyway. You'll need to be for third year. What I am saying is that if you close your mind you might miss the fact that there are quite a few ok folks out there.

atlas shrugged was always one of my favorite books, but more for the ideas/story than anything else. i read the longass monologue at the end once, and for every other time i've read the book (several) i just flat-out skipped it. seriously, ayn, we get it already.

the rest of the idea/story is really neat, though. especially how everything just unfolds. pretty cool.

Wow. Once was enough for me. I've got a hunch that hard core Ayn Rand fans are actually closet masochists in denial.

 

[thewebthsp]

Like one of my friends said, Ayn Rand is pretty cool, but really only like F. Nietzsche minus 50 IQ points. Ayn Rand totally disparages culture in her
writing, making this libertarian a little wary of the truth of her words.

At any rate. Geez Azzarah -- Hopkins sounds pretty cut throat at the med school. Too bad... I wish my alma mater (undergrad) were a more warm and fuzzy place. JHU was my top med school choice too. Makes you wonder -- but they do have the best clinical rotations you could find anywhere. Who knows.

A lot of my classmates here at Penn definitely share material by email and living with 2 classmates also has helped me in studying. I feel like I can be friends with at least a handful of people in class, and at least be "teammates" with the rest. On the fencing team, I wasn't friends with most, be we all had an understanding, a teammate relationship as it were...

 

[azzarah]

Overall our class is pretty laid back and cool...there are just a couple of cut-throat gunners....just like any other med school I guess.

Like one of my friends said, Ayn Rand is pretty cool, but really only like F. Nietzsche minus 50 IQ points. Ayn Rand totally disparages culture in her
writing, making this libertarian a little wary of the truth of her words.

At any rate. Geez Azzarah -- Hopkins sounds pretty cut throat at the med school. Too bad... I wish my alma mater (undergrad) were a more warm and fuzzy place. JHU was my top med school choice too. Makes you wonder -- but they do have the best clinical rotations you could find anywhere. Who knows.

A lot of my classmates here at Penn definitely share material by email and living with 2 classmates also has helped me in studying. I feel like I can be friends with at least a handful of people in class, and at least be "teammates" with the rest. On the fencing team, I wasn't friends with most, be we all had an understanding, a teammate relationship as it were...

 

[phoenixsupra]

Like one of my friends said, Ayn Rand is pretty cool, but really only like F. Nietzsche minus 50 IQ points. Ayn Rand totally disparages culture in her
writing, making this libertarian a little wary of the truth of her words...

That's hilarious. Pretty much sums it up. Nietzsche didn't exactly live a fantastic life either. Guess they've both got that in common too. Incredible writing style though. I read Zarathustra when I was a kid and it damn near blew my mind. Problem is, all that stuff is easier said than done. Guess that's why Ayn and Freddie never really DID anything too well other than writing.