Harvard vs. State School

[hungryhungryhippo]

Hey everyone, I know that this is a thread that's been done many times before, but really want to hear as much input and perspectives as possible. First off, the total cost of school is incredibly expensive at Harvard. It totals to around 400,000 for all four years. Meanwhile, VCU totals to around 250,ooo.

Personally, I would love to go to Harvard for its small class size, great faculty to student ratio, research, P/F grading, Boston, and a more medical/holistic approach towards dentistry. I really loved the atmosphere and the students seemed really happy during my tour! The curriculum as a whole attracts me (the name is just a plus).

However, logically speaking, my gut tells me to choose VCU. The extra $150k in debt is enough to make a decent payment on a practice in the future and its closer to my family, friends, and girlfriend. VCU is an amazing school as well with a great student body and an extremely high match rate (99%)!

As of now, I want to specialize but it's not certain. I understand that this may change through my experiences during dental school.

Thank you for your input and thoughts in advance! Really appreciate it 🙂

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[NavyDDS1990]

State school. For me, there is no way to justify an extra 150K. No matter where you go, you will have to work hard and be top in your class to specialize. No matter which school you graduate from, you will still have to learn more and pick up the speed while you are practicing. No matter where you graduate from, you will still going to be slow.

 

[ncide]

VCU bruh.

If you are up there in class rank you can shave off 10k a year. Comes out to almost half the cost of Harvard.

 

[Kareful]

Big Hoss would tell you he didn't even read your post and that you should just to go to the cheaper school.

 

[Incis0r]

Big Hoss would tell you he didn't even read your post and that you should just to go to the cheaper school.

@Big Time Hoosier

 

[wengerout]

Hey everyone, I know that this is a thread that's been done many times before, but really want to hear as much input and perspectives as possible. First off, the total cost of school is incredibly expensive at Harvard. It totals to around 400,000 for all four years. Meanwhile, VCU totals to around 250,ooo.

Personally, I would love to go to Harvard for its small class size, great faculty to student ratio, research, P/F grading, Boston, and a more medical/holistic approach towards dentistry. I really loved the atmosphere and the students seemed really happy during my tour! The curriculum as a whole attracts me (the name is just a plus).

However, logically speaking, my gut tells me to choose VCU. The extra $150k in debt is enough to make a decent payment on a practice in the future and its closer to my family, friends, and girlfriend. VCU is an amazing school as well with a great student body and an extremely high match rate (99%)!

As of now, I want to specialize but it's not certain. I understand that this may change through my experiences during dental school.

Thank you for your input and thoughts in advance! Really appreciate it 🙂

End of the day you you're the one whose gonna pay back the loans so only you can make this call. No one on SDN is gonna tell you to spend 150k extra.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[Incis0r]

Hey everyone, I know that this is a thread that's been done many times before, but really want to hear as much input and perspectives as possible. First off, the total cost of school is incredibly expensive at Harvard. It totals to around 400,000 for all four years. Meanwhile, VCU totals to around 250,ooo.

Personally, I would love to go to Harvard for its small class size, great faculty to student ratio, research, P/F grading, Boston, and a more medical/holistic approach towards dentistry. I really loved the atmosphere and the students seemed really happy during my tour! The curriculum as a whole attracts me (the name is just a plus).

However, logically speaking, my gut tells me to choose VCU. The extra $150k in debt is enough to make a decent payment on a practice in the future and its closer to my family, friends, and girlfriend. VCU is an amazing school as well with a great student body and an extremely high match rate (99%)!

As of now, I want to specialize but it's not certain. I understand that this may change through my experiences during dental school.

Thank you for your input and thoughts in advance! Really appreciate it 🙂

Add an extra 30% to each price tag to account for tuition increases, annual interest, etc.
It's a $195K difference in the long run.

Paying an extra $195K at that rate will take 5.4 more years.

So the question you need to ask yourself: Is it worth being in debt for an extra 5.4 years to go to Harvard? Or would you rather go to VCU and be debt-free 5.4 years earlier?

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

Oh, we want to specialize do we? Tack on anywhere from $100,000 - $300,000 to those student loans.

Big Hoss

 

[Student Loan Planner]

Thx @Incis0r. My suggestion is do you want the flexibility to specialize in the future? If you go to Harvard, specializing would leave you with $700,000 to $800,000 in student debt at the end of it, so you're probably not going to want to specialize and add a bunch more debt. Going to VCU probably leaves you around $400,000 in debt after specializing.

Keep in mind how your future self will feel. Yes current you might be happier and more energized by Harvard, but how to all the graduates from Harvard feel 5 years out when they have families, are trying to buy a house, and want to buy a practice? My guess is that they'll feel trapped and in some cases pretty depressed.

Another thought, if you're more certain than not that you and your girlfriend are headed towards marriage, going to Harvard would make that less likely. Long distance really sucks. Going to VCU and being closer to friends and family will provide a support system. Fewer flights home, lower costs when parents come up to take you out to eat, etc.

You're probably thinking how cool it'd be to go to Harvard. If it was business school then I'd say yes take out more debt and go to Harvard. Not dental school though I don't think there's a return on investment for spending more to go there

 

[The Anhedonia]

Im at Harvard for OMFS. Though I'm paid for on-service resident years, Harvard medical school tuition was expensive AF.....

If you were going into medical school, I'd say go to Harvard because pedigree does matter in the medical field

Since you are going to dental school, I'm telling you that it doesn't matter. If you do general dentistry it doesn't matter. If you apply to residency it may look fancy on an application, but a good student is a good student - you make yourself competitive to specialize (I didn't get into my residency because of where I went to school, it's because I worked my ass off in dental school to build a strong application). Loans for you are only theoretical for now - just wait until you get your monthly balance showing accrued interest and it actually impacts your credit score having a massive debt burden

There is something to be said about their biomedical curriculum though. In general most dental schools teach a piss poor watered down version of the biomedical science (good article in this month's JOMS http://www.joms.org/article/S0278-2391(16)31018-7/fulltext). In this regard, HSDM students have excellent biomed training because they are for all intensive purposes medical students who are taking extra dental classes. Does it really matter at the end of the day for dentistry? Maybe not, but like it or not the lines between dentistry and medicine will start blurring soon, and it behooves dental education to kick it up a notch.

 

[Kareful]

Im at Harvard for OMFS. Though I'm paid for on-service resident years, Harvard medical school tuition was expensive AF.....

If you were going into medical school, I'd say go to Harvard because pedigree does matter in the medical field

Since you are going to dental school, I'm telling you that it doesn't matter. If you do general dentistry it doesn't matter. If you apply to residency it may look fancy on an application, but a good student is a good student - you make yourself competitive to specialize (I didn't get into my residency because of where I went to school, it's because I worked my ass off in dental school to build a strong application). Loans for you are only theoretical for now - just wait until you get your monthly balance showing accrued interest and it actually impacts your credit score having a massive debt burden

There is something to be said about their biomedical curriculum though. In general most dental schools teach a piss poor watered down version of the biomedical science (good article in this month's JOMS http://www.joms.org/article/S0278-2391(16)31018-7/fulltext). In this regard, HSDM students have excellent biomed training because they are for all intensive purposes medical students who are taking extra dental classes. Does it really matter at the end of the day for dentistry? Maybe not, but like it or not the lines between dentistry and medicine will start blurring soon, and it behooves dental education to kick it up a notch.

Any chance you can post the pdf of this article for students whose uni does not have access to JOMS? Looked like a good read from the abstract.

 

[The Anhedonia]

Any chance you can post the pdf of this article for students whose uni does not have access to JOMS? Looked like a good read from the abstract.

 

[ncide]

One of our classmates was accepted to Harvard, penn, and VCU. She chose VCU.

 

[Student Loan Planner]

One of our classmates was accepted to Harvard, penn, and VCU. She chose VCU.

I agree if you're going to be a dentist, that's an excellent decision if you're not rich

 

[y123]

Doesn't Harvard give generous financial aid?

 

[Faux]

One of our classmates was accepted to Harvard, penn, and VCU. She chose VCU.

Same here with Harvard but they choose UB instead.

 

[deleted738762]

If my girlfriend is near to me, this isn't even a question. Unless she isn't the love of your life lol. Plus you save 150k. No brainer mate.

 

[UCSFx2017]

VCU matched 8 of 9 or 9 of 10 (counting the preliminary intern) into OMFS this year. Approximately 10 out of 10 matched into Pedo and almost all of them at their #1. 1 out of 2 matched into ortho. The excellent match results this year for OMFS is more dependent on its strong and incredibly supportive OMFS department rather than VCU's undergraduate dental administration.

When you calculate costs, don't just add the amount borrowed. You have to account for both origination fees and capitalized interest over your entire repayment plan. A school that costs $280,000 at graduation may end up costing $420,000 after a 10-year repayment plan. I recommend using Medloan's calculator when you have a chance.

With regards to the current state of undergraduate dental education, almost all non-med school integrated dental schools fall short of what most would consider a good medical education. There's more and more pressure every year to cram more clinical experience into four years at the expense of didactics.

While our medical school counterparts can expect its graduates to gain the clinical experience in an almost compulsory residency and can afford to hone a strong basic science curriculum, dental schools do not have the luxury of expecting its graduates to seek further residency training (GPR) and therefore shorten didactic courses. Rob Peter to pay Paul.

 

[swimpolo]

Without a doubt go to the cheapest dental school (in your case, VCU). Don't forget the current interest rates for Grad Plus loans and other unsubsidized loans, which will make the difference far greater than $150K. If you want to specialize, wherever you go you will have to work hard regardless.

 

[bonzDDS]

Im at Harvard for OMFS. Though I'm paid for on-service resident years, Harvard medical school tuition was expensive AF.....

If you were going into medical school, I'd say go to Harvard because pedigree does matter in the medical field

Since you are going to dental school, I'm telling you that it doesn't matter. If you do general dentistry it doesn't matter. If you apply to residency it may look fancy on an application, but a good student is a good student - you make yourself competitive to specialize (I didn't get into my residency because of where I went to school, it's because I worked my ass off in dental school to build a strong application). Loans for you are only theoretical for now - just wait until you get your monthly balance showing accrued interest and it actually impacts your credit score having a massive debt burden

There is something to be said about their biomedical curriculum though. In general most dental schools teach a piss poor watered down version of the biomedical science (good article in this month's JOMS http://www.joms.org/article/S0278-2391(16)31018-7/fulltext). In this regard, HSDM students have excellent biomed training because they are for all intensive purposes medical students who are taking extra dental classes. Does it really matter at the end of the day for dentistry? Maybe not, but like it or not the lines between dentistry and medicine will start blurring soon, and it behooves dental education to kick it up a notch.

Did you go to HSDM for dental school? I've heard that since HSDM is P/F and un-ranked you don't have to "work your ass off" as much as other students from other dental schools to get into an OMFS residency. Can you please comment on the truth of these statements:
HSDM students are better prepared for the CBSE since they take their sciences at HMS
HSDM students get into OMFS residencies partly because of the fancy name (assuming their CBSE score is up to par)
HSDM has a research requirement making them overall "look better"
HSDM students get more exposure to OMFS and more time for externships than other schools
.... these are just a few rumors flying around SDN making me nervous about my chances at a good residency. I'm clearly not at HSDM....

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

.... these are just a few rumors flying around SDN making me nervous about my chances at a good residency. I'm clearly not at HSDM....

It's true. If you don't go to Harvard, Columbia, or UPenn the chances of you matching to anything, even to perio, are slim to none.

Big Hoss

 

[Likkriue]

It's true. If you don't go to Harvard, Columbia, or UPenn the chances of you matching to anything, even to perio, are slim to none.

Big Hoss

Yeah can attest. I know of ZERO students at the pathetic state schools(LOL r u evn trying? Git Gud) that have matched since the first dental school opened in Baltimore. Its Ivy League or bust.

 

[Garett24]

Felicia (Harvard) is a beautiful woman but she likes you to pay for her expensive jewery. Julia (VCA) is pretty cute and she allows you a little more freedom.

BOY! It sure is nice showing Felicia off, she is beautiful, prestigious and sound really good when you say I am dating an IVY league gal. Wow what a babe.

Felicia wants gold explorers and her matrix bands to be made of the finest silver. She will cost you 400k or 600k with a 10 year repayment. When you are trying to go fishing/out with the boys/ golfing she demands her feet to be rubbed (pay off her debts) so you stay home.

Julia thinks you just need the bare essentials. she Costs you 250,000 and ends up being 378,608 10 year repayment. Shes not as glamarous but you as an individual feel pretty dang good about your skills.

Felicia costs you 600k
Julia = 378k

Is showing off that babe to your friends and parents worth over 200k more? Will that 200k help you grow as an individual or will the chains prevent you from doing more of what you want to do in your finite span in this dimension?

Ps if you are a girl Switch names to Paul and Mike

 

[I-hate-alginate]

Paul and mike!! Lolol

 

[Faefly]

Go to Harvard!



Congratulations on your achievements.

 

[Faefly]

One of our classmates was accepted to Harvard, penn, and VCU. She chose VCU.

Maybe her boyfriend lives in Virginia.

 

[Faefly]

Thx @Incis0r. My suggestion is do you want the flexibility to specialize in the future? If you go to Harvard, specializing would leave you with $700,000 to $800,000 in student debt at the end of it, so you're probably not going to want to specialize and add a bunch more debt. Going to VCU probably leaves you around $400,000 in debt after specializing.

Keep in mind how your future self will feel. Yes current you might be happier and more energized by Harvard, but how to all the graduates from Harvard feel 5 years out when they have families, are trying to buy a house, and want to buy a practice? My guess is that they'll feel trapped and in some cases pretty depressed.

Another thought, if you're more certain than not that you and your girlfriend are headed towards marriage, going to Harvard would make that less likely. Long distance really sucks. Going to VCU and being closer to friends and family will provide a support system. Fewer flights home, lower costs when parents come up to take you out to eat, etc.

You're probably thinking how cool it'd be to go to Harvard. If it was business school then I'd say yes take out more debt and go to Harvard. Not dental school though I don't think there's a return on investment for spending more to go there

People break up all the time, I think this is a good test for their true love (whatever that is)

as for people who went to Harvard and now depressed, can you please give us proof of that, not based on your guess.
I think many dentists are depressed by default. This is what I have observed by shadowing! Their fake smiles extend only to satisfy the patients and keep them coming back!
Have you considered that some people want to go somewhere away from their family members? Or want to see a new place?

Anyway, you are famous for telling people to not go to dental school based on costs, so there is no point in arguing!


No honestly, Long distance weaken a relationship and create unnecessary fights. If you can't live far way from your girlfriend, or your family. I would say stay at Virginia. But not because VCU is a better than Harvard.

 

[Faefly]

Felicia (Harvard) is a beautiful woman but she likes you to pay for her expensive jewery. Julia (VCA) is pretty cute and she allows you a little more freedom.

BOY! It sure is nice showing Felicia off, she is beautiful, prestigious and sound really good when you say I am dating an IVY league gal. Wow what a babe.

Felicia wants gold explorers and her matrix bands to be made of the finest silver. She will cost you 400k or 600k with a 10 year repayment. When you are trying to go fishing/out with the boys/ golfing she demands her feet to be rubbed (pay off her debts) so you stay home.

Julia thinks you just need the bare essentials. she Costs you 250,000 and ends up being 378,608 10 year repayment. Shes not as glamarous but you as an individual feel pretty dang good about your skills.

Felicia costs you 600k
Julia = 378k

Is showing off that babe to your friends and parents worth over 200k more? Will that 200k help you grow as an individual or will the chains prevent you from doing more of what you want to do in your finite span in this dimension?

Ps if you are a girl Switch names to Paul and Mike

Nathan worth it

 

[Hannah Banana]

Felicia (Harvard) is a beautiful woman but she likes you to pay for her expensive jewery. Julia (VCA) is pretty cute and she allows you a little more freedom.

BOY! It sure is nice showing Felicia off, she is beautiful, prestigious and sound really good when you say I am dating an IVY league gal. Wow what a babe.

Felicia wants gold explorers and her matrix bands to be made of the finest silver. She will cost you 400k or 600k with a 10 year repayment. When you are trying to go fishing/out with the boys/ golfing she demands her feet to be rubbed (pay off her debts) so you stay home.

Julia thinks you just need the bare essentials. she Costs you 250,000 and ends up being 378,608 10 year repayment. Shes not as glamarous but you as an individual feel pretty dang good about your skills.

Felicia costs you 600k
Julia = 378k

Is showing off that babe to your friends and parents worth over 200k more? Will that 200k help you grow as an individual or will the chains prevent you from doing more of what you want to do in your finite span in this dimension?

Ps if you are a girl Switch names to Paul and Mike

Why not both?

 

[DentistScientist]

If you do dmd/dds phd at top research dental schools such as Michigan, UCSF or UCLA, I would say you have greater advantage than going to Harvard dental.

 

[DentistScientist]

Doesn't Harvard give generous financial aid?

Nope. Only harvard's "important" programs give out generous financial aid. The "important" programs that gives Harvard money and fame are: ugrad, med, business, and Law. These programs would pay you if you are from a middle class family. If your fam makes under $100,000, you get a full tuition scholarship if you go there for ugrad.

Harvard dental does not have a NIH T90 dmd/phd program. This means they don't pay for your dental school.

Their md/phds have two kinds: (1) Harvard MD + Harvard/MIT PhD and (2) Harvard MD + NIH-Oxford-Cambridge PhD. (1) is full ride while (2) only pay for your PhD and some need based fin aid for MD. But (2) is shorter than (1) by several years. Whether you do (1) or (2), you can literally go into whatever specialty you want in the best place in the country.

I know this cause I went to harvard's ugrad interview and harvard dental interview and talked with both financial officers. And I also lived with a person who is currently doing (2) while I was at NIH.