Help, go to Iraq or med school?

[DuckHunter]

Serve your country, go to Iraq.

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Members don't see this ad.

 

[kdburton]

You have a point. Just like an oncologist who has never had cancer doesn't really know anything about cancer, people who have not "served" don't know anything about the military.

Your argument would maybe have a shred of merit if you used a realistic analogy. Oncologists don't need to have had cancer in order to understand and treat it because they don't rely solely on the books and informercials from anti-medicine profiteers like Kevin Tredeau and his idiotic like-minded sheeple. Oncologists have useful, unbiased information that they with which to make realistic decisions to treat a horrible disease. We are constantly bombarded with anti-war and anti-military propaganda from the left-of-center mainstream media, so unless you are going be an oncologist who plans to irradicate cancer with the liverwort plants from the Lollipop Mountains in Gumdrop-Land, then start watching something other than CNN to make your "educated" decisions. I'm not saying that FOX News is "fair and balanced" but I'm sick of how everyone undermines our military when they are the only reason we are allowed to disagree and constructively debate issues like this.

 

[Wannabemed]

I swear, Wannabemed has got to be my old SDN friend, "Somefakename," who also was extremely anti-military although it later turned out that he disliked Marines because his girlfriend had dumped him for one.

Haha, wrong. So much for your "faith-based" reasoning.

 

[Wannabemed]

Your argument would maybe have a shred of merit if you used a realistic analogy. Oncologists don't need to have had cancer in order to understand and treat it because they don't rely solely on the books and informercials from anti-medicine profiteers like Kevin Tredeau and his idiotic like-minded sheeple. Oncologists have useful, unbiased information that they with which to make realistic decisions to treat a horrible disease. We are constantly bombarded with anti-war and anti-military propaganda from the left-of-center mainstream media, so unless you are going be an oncologist who plans to irradicate cancer with the liverwort plants from the Lollipop Mountains in Gumdrop-Land, then start watching something other than CNN to make your "educated" decisions. I'm not saying that FOX News is "fair and balanced" but I'm sick of how everyone undermines our military when they are the only reason we are allowed to disagree and constructively debate issues like this.

Yeah, with all those brave soldier fighting for my "freedom" in Iraq (what does Iraq have to do with 9/11 or weapons of mass destruction again??) and defending the continental United States from all those enemy landing crafts bent on dispersing massive armies to invade the US so they could deprive me of my 1st amendment rights, how can I NOT be grateful. Every enemy we have today is an enemy we MADE with our militarism and imperialism. The Marine Corps that my grandpa served in during WW2 (and Korea) is not the Marine Corps today. Let us not kid ourselves: there is no excuse for having a large, standing military. The whole "fighting for our/world freedom" garbage is a spin.....much of the military today is the big stick of large businesses.

 

[kdburton]

Yeah, with all those brave soldier fighting for my "freedom" in Iraq (what does Iraq have to do with 9/11 or weapons of mass destruction again??) and defending the continental United States from all those enemy landing crafts bent on dispersing massive armies to invade the US so they could deprive me of my 1st amendment rights, how can I NOT be grateful. Every enemy we have today is an enemy we MADE with our militarism and imperialism. The Marine Corps that my grandpa served in during WW2 (and Korea) is not the Marine Corps today. Let us not kid ourselves: there is no excuse for having a large, standing military. The whole "fighting for our/world freedom" garbage is a spin.....much of the military today is the big stick of large businesses.

I've admitted before that I think the war in Iraq has been severely mismanaged, but 99% of the itelligence we had (not only the "imperialist" USA's intelligence; foreign intelligence as well) said that Iraq DID have WMD and we all know that Saddam was a lunatic. It would have been irresponsible in my eyes, and apparently in the eyes of your liberal congressmen who voted for the war in the first place, if Bush didn't do anything. Maybe when one of these enemies we've made with our militarism decides to attack us in the future, you won't be talking so much **** about those who are protecting you.

 

[kylek044]

I've admitted before that I think the war in Iraq has been severely mismanaged, but 99% of the itelligence we had (not only the "imperialist" USA's intelligence; foreign intelligence as well) said that Iraq DID have WMD and we all know that Saddam was a lunatic. It would have been irresponsible in my eyes, and apparently in the eyes of your liberal congressmen who voted for the war in the first place, if Bush didn't do anything. Maybe when one of these enemies we've made with our militarism decides to attack us in the future, you won't be talking so much **** about those who are protecting you.

Explain why the lunatic Saddam was not allowed to have WMDs but the lunatics in other countries are (like, I don't know... ours)? For ANYONE to say that we're allowed to have them but theyre not is taking away the true sovereignty of their country. It is imperialism.

 

[notgettingin]

All political and military discussions aside, I would recommend not going to Iraq. Why sign up for a job that puts you at a great risk of getting killed, just to boost your resume and feed your desire for adventure? I would CAREFULLY weigh the realities of the situation out there, and check out some of these sites, before making such a huge leap. Good luck whatever you choose, and be careful.

http://www.icasualties.org/oif/Civ.aspx

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A22547-2004May12.html

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/11/26/cbsnews_investigates/main2209058.shtml

 

[Wannabemed]

I've admitted before that I think the war in Iraq has been severely mismanaged, but 99% of the itelligence we had (not only the "imperialist" USA's intelligence; foreign intelligence as well) said that Iraq DID have WMD and we all know that Saddam was a lunatic. It would have been irresponsible in my eyes, and apparently in the eyes of your liberal congressmen who voted for the war in the first place, if Bush didn't do anything. Maybe when one of these enemies we've made with our militarism decides to attack us in the future, you won't be talking so much **** about those who are protecting you.

Yeah, just like I'd be ever-grateful towards the firefighter that is trying to put out a fire that HE STARTED in my house, I'll be right by your side, hanky in hand, endlessly thanking these warriors for trying to end the war they help start with their *****ic militancy.

 

[SunshineNYC]

It seems as though you are looking at this with a very narrow view. So you have applied to allopathic schools a few times and you can't get in because of your MCATs. I assume that you have been working in the meantime and maybe are a few years out of college at this point. I've found that the allopathic schools don't take that many older applicants unless they've had extensive research experience, so why not try osteopathic schools. They are more likely to look at all of the other things in your application besides your MCAT score and the fact that you are a few years out of college would be in your favor.

Also, have you considered entering a profession where you'd still be doing the same kind of work (seeing patients and helping them), like being a PA, a nurse practitioner, a dentist, podiatrist, physical therapist, or becoming a nutritionist (many of them work with patients in hospitals who have cancer, kidney disorders, or Crohn's disease).

Anyway, just some things to consider before going off to Iraq. If you really want to treat sick people and help them get better, consider these other options... allopathic medical schools is not the ONLY thing that can help you achieve that goal.

 

[patrickd223]

I have talked to a marine who is in iraq and he says the biggest challenge is "combating boredom". If you think you are going over there to save the world you will be shocked when you get there. If you are going there for the money, consider that a translator WILL be in the crossfire. If you have half a brain you will stick to medicine. Than maybe you can combine your language skills w. your medical skills and be better off

 

[Cirrus83]

I've admitted before that I think the war in Iraq has been severely mismanaged, but 99% of the itelligence we had (not only the "imperialist" USA's intelligence; foreign intelligence as well) said that Iraq DID have WMD and we all know that Saddam was a lunatic. It would have been irresponsible in my eyes, and apparently in the eyes of your liberal congressmen who voted for the war in the first place, if Bush didn't do anything. Maybe when one of these enemies we've made with our militarism decides to attack us in the future, you won't be talking so much **** about those who are protecting you.

Dude, the CIA's intelligence actually supported the position that there weren't WMD's in Iraq. That's why the British reports were cited as reason to go to war, when in fact our own intel was saying that that was nonsense.

They just went with whatever intel happened to support going to war, and basically ignored all the evidence to the contrary.

And Saddam might have been a harsh dictator, but he might not neccessarily have been a lunatic, since it's pretty hard to get warring factions that hate each other to co-exist peacefully. Basically if he hadn't been harsh and controlling, Iraq would have been the war-torn place it is now, so in the grand scheme of things he was just keeping people from being killed in constant terrorist attacks. So while his methods may have been horrible (although this is also debatable how much he actually ordered himself and knew about-we'll never really know since those trials were basically a joke meant to execute regardless of the evidence), maybe he was just doing what he had to do to stop things from being worse. All things considered, it's not like there's wonderful peace and human-rights now in Iraq, lol.

 

[lazyjayn]

all right- on topic--

I am friends with someone who spent two years working for haliburton over in Iraq- "driving trucks". He only did that for about 6 months before they banned ground travel, then spent pretty much the whole of the rest of his contract trapped on his base. no idea what he did then, but it sounded boring and scary. Or maybe that was the 6 showers for a couple hundred guys part. He got paid very well, but if you asked him today if he'd like to go back, he'd probably laugh at you. It can take a week or more to get in or out of Iraq. If there's still no ground transport (and I'm guessing there isn't) then you have to wait for available helicopter space, and I can pretty much guarantee you that you're less important than food and ammo. So when you get your vacation you book it at least a week after you're scheduled to leave.

alternately, if it's the money that interests you, you can do just about anything in Antarctica and make just about the same money with far less risk. Cooking, cleaning, they need all of that. If you have any actual skills, they'll hire you, pay you well, and you don't get blown up on your way to work(Raytheon). If it's the opportunity to "help" you're looking for, there are groups far less reviled than "private contractors" you can hop over there with.

Having money to pay for school upfront will make up for the year or so you lose in your earning potential, and the experience will give you something different on your apps. But it is, of course, up to you.

off topic- Sudan vs. LA- Sudan totally. Hello people, they don't stamp your passport for LA. Then again, what do i know, I'm just some dumb old pre-vet with a nasty travel habit.

 

[jsnuka]

I have not read the entire thread, but how long will you have to be over there? Do you have a contract or can you leave when you want?

On the suraface, I will say go. It will help your applications to medical school in the long run and the money will not hurt in terms of paying for the application process.

It could open up opportunities for you to go to USUHS or any other medical school that is sympathetic to those who have performed military service, if even on an ancillary basis and want to continue serving the greater good by becoming a physician.

 

[kdburton]

Explain why the lunatic Saddam was not allowed to have WMDs but the lunatics in other countries are (like, I don't know... ours)? For ANYONE to say that we're allowed to have them but theyre not is taking away the true sovereignty of their country. It is imperialism.

Did our president use chemical weapons to kill a large number of a specific sub-population of the US, kill our Olympic athletes who didn't bring home the gold, or any other thigns on laundry list of crazy things that Saddam did to "his people"? Whether or not others in the world hate us because of our "imperialism" - a sunk cost at this point - they still hate us and publicly demonstrate that they would stop at nothing to kill the infidels (America). So you can either chose to disarm those threats or you can choose to be so open minded that your brain falls out, which you are apparently suffering from. It's true that other enemies of the US have potential for WMD and we haven't invaded them, but maybe we need to get a little tougher than just talking it out like all the libs want to do

 

[kdburton]

Dude, the CIA's intelligence actually supported the position that there weren't WMD's in Iraq. That's why the British reports were cited as reason to go to war, when in fact our own intel was saying that that was nonsense.

They just went with whatever intel happened to support going to war, and basically ignored all the evidence to the contrary.

And Saddam might have been a harsh dictator, but he might not neccessarily have been a lunatic, since it's pretty hard to get warring factions that hate each other to co-exist peacefully. Basically if he hadn't been harsh and controlling, Iraq would have been the war-torn place it is now, so in the grand scheme of things he was just keeping people from being killed in constant terrorist attacks. So while his methods may have been horrible (although this is also debatable how much he actually ordered himself and knew about-we'll never really know since those trials were basically a joke meant to execute regardless of the evidence), maybe he was just doing what he had to do to stop things from being worse. All things considered, it's not like there's wonderful peace and human-rights now in Iraq, lol.

I believe that there were 15 intelligence agencies used, and 14 of them said Iraq had WMD... Whether or not it was the CIA that was the 1/15, they were pretty outnumbered

 

[farikanok]

Dude, the CIA's intelligence actually supported the position that there weren't WMD's in Iraq. That's why the British reports were cited as reason to go to war, when in fact our own intel was saying that that was nonsense.

They just went with whatever intel happened to support going to war, and basically ignored all the evidence to the contrary.

And Saddam might have been a harsh dictator, but he might not neccessarily have been a lunatic, since it's pretty hard to get warring factions that hate each other to co-exist peacefully. Basically if he hadn't been harsh and controlling, Iraq would have been the war-torn place it is now, so in the grand scheme of things he was just keeping people from being killed in constant terrorist attacks. So while his methods may have been horrible (although this is also debatable how much he actually ordered himself and knew about-we'll never really know since those trials were basically a joke meant to execute regardless of the evidence), maybe he was just doing what he had to do to stop things from being worse. All things considered, it's not like there's wonderful peace and human-rights now in Iraq, lol.

...i only wish that someone like you (and those that think like you) lived under Saddam. those with such mentality were the ones alignd with the Ba'ath Party - the ones that clapped and cheered him on in the streets... but i don't mean to be judgemental about what you don't know. please educate yourself about the situation before making such broad statements. you can start by watching the following:
http://fdd.typepad.com.nyud.net:8090/fdd/files/1.wmv
http://fdd.typepad.com.nyud.net:8090/fdd/files/2.wmv
http://fdd.typepad.com.nyud.net:8090/fdd/files/3.wmv
http://fdd.typepad.com.nyud.net:8090/fdd/files/4.wmv

please remember that these videos contain highly graphic material, watch at your own discretion. also, imagine what you see in the videos times 10...

final thought: i do agree that he was not a lunatic. he was a smart and charismatic leader... oh, and ruthless.

 

[8744]

harass? I guess facts are too much for people.

people who join the military are trained to kill. the military can be viewed as a killing machine. the soldiers should be respected for being efficient at what they do best.

a doctor is trained to heal not kill. doctors should be respected for being efficient healers.

hope you can see the difference...

You know, I tell my wife that I was once a lean, mean, killing machine and she laughs. Not because it isn't true (because I was at one time) but because I am now a stocky, responsible, pillar of the community. Believe me, being called a "Killing Machine" is not the insult you imagine it to be. (It's like calling somebody a Cowboy and wondering why he's not insulted.) The only people who think it's an insult are the ones who would likely shriek and gather their skirts if they foind their children playing soldier.

Doctors are trained to heal their patients. The enemy is not your patient. Additionally, the ability, will, and desire to kill the enemy in battle should be a civic virtue and something encouraged in civics classes. A good soldier is also self-discplined and know when to exercise restraint which is also a desirable civic virtue. It is no sin to seek out, close with and destroy the enemy.

I would say that all other things being equal, a former-soldier or Marine is a better citizen. Let's not get all European now.

 

[8744]

Yeah, with all those brave soldier fighting for my "freedom" in Iraq (what does Iraq have to do with 9/11 or weapons of mass destruction again??) and defending the continental United States from all those enemy landing crafts bent on dispersing massive armies to invade the US so they could deprive me of my 1st amendment rights, how can I NOT be grateful. Every enemy we have today is an enemy we MADE with our militarism and imperialism. The Marine Corps that my grandpa served in during WW2 (and Korea) is not the Marine Corps today. Let us not kid ourselves: there is no excuse for having a large, standing military. The whole "fighting for our/world freedom" garbage is a spin.....much of the military today is the big stick of large businesses.

Just a side note, the Marines who took Fallujah (as an example) are in every way equal to the Marines who stormed the beaches of Iowa Jima and twenty years from now young Marines will look up to the Sergeant Major because the "Old Man" had been one of those hard bastards who fought in Iraq.

Additionally, Marines today are a lot better trained than they were in my day and certainly when compared to Marines from World War II. It's just a fact. An infantryman today has to be a lot smarter as he is responsible for a bigger part of the battlefield then he was back in the day when we could just throw twenty thousand Marines on the beach and see what happened.

But it's still the same Marine Corps, something you cannot possibly understand. I think it's ironic how you so totally believe in the irrational cult of medicine but dismiss real esprit de corps when you see it.

I think you're a little jealous of those guys serving in our elite units. Maybe you think you don't have what it takes to be really selfless, something that is never required of a doctor to the level it's required of a Marine.

 

[kdburton]

Explain why the lunatic Saddam was not allowed to have WMDs but the lunatics in other countries are (like, I don't know... ours)? For ANYONE to say that we're allowed to have them but theyre not is taking away the true sovereignty of their country. It is imperialism.

If it were imperialism then we wouldn't have handed the country to a new democracy there (even though it is failed). The situation is bad, but you have your definitions mixed up. Bush is hardly a lunatic in comparison to Saddam, mahmud ahmadinejad, huga chavez, or Kim Jong-il.

 

[8744]

All political and military discussions aside, I would recommend not going to Iraq. Why sign up for a job that puts you at a great risk of getting killed, just to boost your resume and feed your desire for adventure? I would CAREFULLY weigh the realities of the situation out there, and check out some of these sites, before making such a huge leap. Good luck whatever you choose, and be careful.

http://www.icasualties.org/oif/Civ.aspx

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A22547-2004May12.html

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/11/26/cbsnews_investigates/main2209058.shtml

Well yeah. It seems a pretty extreme solution to not getting into medical school. Which kind of shows you the level of obsession required to get into medical school.

 

[BarrySanders]

You know, I tell my wife that I was once a lean, mean, killing machine and she laughs. Not because it isn't true (because I was at one time) but because I am now a stocky, responsible, pillar of the community. Believe me, being called a "Killing Machine" is not the insult you imagine it to be. (It's like calling somebody a Cowboy and wondering why he's not insulted.) The only people who think it's an insult are the ones who would likely shriek and gather their skirts if they foind their children playing soldier.

Doctors are trained to heal their patients. The enemy is not your patient. Additionally, the ability, will, and desire to kill the enemy in battle should be a civic virtue and something encouraged in civics classes. A good soldier is also self-discplined and know when to exercise restraint which is also a desirable civic virtue. It is no sin to seek out, close with and destroy the enemy.

I would say that all other things being equal, a former-soldier or Marine is a better citizen. Let's not get all European now.

Yes it is a sin.

 

[8744]

Yes it is a sin.

Maybe in some twisted, overtly political "I'm OK, You're OK" version of Christianity but Christ never condemns soldiers, in fact, in the Bible the Centurion of the Legion is held up as an example of faith, and not because he becomes a pacifist either.

Saint George, Saint Demetrious, and many of our Holy Fathers were soldiers. Saint George, a General in the Roman Army, was martyred not for refusing to fight but for refusing to renounce Christ.

 

[BarrySanders]

Maybe in some twisted, overtly political "I'm OK, You're OK" version of Christianity but Christ never condemns soldiers, in fact, in the Bible the Centurion of the Legion is held up as an example of faith, and not because he becomes a pacifist either.

Saint George, Saint Demetrious, and many of our Holy Fathers were soldiers. Saint George, a General in the Roman Army, was martyred not for refusing to fight but for refusing to renounce Christ.

These are humans who sinned. Twisted? I know of no version of the Bible that does not clearly say "Thou Shalt Not Kill." Simple as that. Christianity does not follow Saint George, it follows Jesus Christ, someone who Never harmed anyone.

 

[kevster2001]

These are humans who sinned. Twisted? I know of no version of the Bible that does not clearly say "Thou Shalt Not Kill." Simple as that. Christianity does not follow Saint George, it follows Jesus Christ, someone who Never harmed anyone.

I thought there was a debate between whether the correct translation is "thou shall not kill" or "thou shall not murder"

 

[8744]

These are humans who sinned. Twisted? I know of no version of the Bible that does not clearly say "Thou Shalt Not Kill." Simple as that. Christianity does not follow Saint George, it follows Jesus Christ, someone who Never harmed anyonee.

Tell that to the money-changers. And those who are not saved.

Sorry. I don't make the rules.

 

[BarrySanders]

Tell that to the money-changers. And those who are not saved.

Sorry. I don't make the rules.

Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean. What do you mean by the money changers? Why would those who are not saved have a problem with it?

 

[McMD]

harass? I guess facts are too much for people.

people who join the military are trained to kill. the military can be viewed as a killing machine. the soldiers should be respected for being efficient at what they do best.

a doctor is trained to heal not kill. doctors should be respected for being efficient healers.

hope you can see the difference...

For your information, my husband is a RESCUE SWIMMER....notice the key word "rescue" in there...he's more highly trained in saving people's lives than any 4th year medical student, and I'm pretty sure if it were him and some residents in a room with a trauma case, he would be calling the shots. Your perception of the military trained to kill is completely incorrect. Of the thousands of guys that my husband is with right this second, I assure you he is one of the FEW (probably about a hundred) who actually knows how to handle a gun, he's been in Iraq 3 times, been shot at many times, and never has shot back...so please, until you know what you're talking about, just stop talking.

 

[SitraAchra]

harass? I guess facts are too much for people.

people who join the military are trained to kill. the military can be viewed as a killing machine. the soldiers should be respected for being efficient at what they do best.

a doctor is trained to heal not kill. doctors should be respected for being efficient healers.

hope you can see the difference...

Oh TM2006, your facts are overwhelming me. Your posts are just littered with emotional outbursts, so forgive me if I could never take you seriously. You are right that people in the military are trained to kill. What exactly is wrong with that? Forgive me for refusing to believe that if we lowered our guns, the world would hold hands and skip together underneath a rainbow-covered sky.

I am not a war hawk, I don't have 20 Support Our Troops ribbons on my car and I don't have a "Bush lied, people died" bumper sticker either. I'd like to think I'm middle of the road. You are such an idealist though, and your opinion holds no water. The same with Wannabemed - who thinks we shouldn't have a standing military. I'm sure Kim Jong Il would absolutely love that, along with a laundry list of others.

The funny thing is I probably agree on more points than I disagree with you, but you are so far up your a$$ you'd never know.

 

[Wannabemed]

Just a side note, the Marines who took Fallujah (as an example) are in every way equal to the Marines who stormed the beaches of Iowa Jima and twenty years from now young Marines will look up to the Sergeant Major because the "Old Man" had been one of those hard bastards who fought in Iraq.

Additionally, Marines today are a lot better trained than they were in my day and certainly when compared to Marines from World War II. It's just a fact. An infantryman today has to be a lot smarter as he is responsible for a bigger part of the battlefield then he was back in the day when we could just throw twenty thousand Marines on the beach and see what happened.

But it's still the same Marine Corps, something you cannot possibly understand. I think it's ironic how you so totally believe in the irrational cult of medicine but dismiss real esprit de corps when you see it.

I think you're a little jealous of those guys serving in our elite units. Maybe you think you don't have what it takes to be really selfless, something that is never required of a doctor to the level it's required of a Marine.

Yeah, that's it, Panda, I'm jealous of those guys serving in "our elite units"....as they are so selfless in re-enacting their GI-Joe fantasies. I wish I could join them in selflessly perpetuating violence in the world, but momma told me to heal people and do no harm instead.

How about a compromise, Panda, as I am clearly a coward. I'll volunteer my time helping the US export more conventional weapons:

http://www.fas.org/asmp/library/articles/tamar_commondreams_02.html

I mean, we don't want Russia to over-take us right? God forbid they contribute more to world peace through the sale of arms than we do. You're my model patriot, Panda. You're my model, sanctimonious, health-care provider....treating patients while simultaneously supporting ideologies and policies that lead to morbidity and mortality through violence world-wide...and then preaching about it.

 

[kylek044]

Maybe in some twisted, overtly political "I'm OK, You're OK" version of Christianity but Christ never condemns soldiers, in fact, in the Bible the Centurion of the Legion is held up as an example of faith, and not because he becomes a pacifist either.

Saint George, Saint Demetrious, and many of our Holy Fathers were soldiers. Saint George, a General in the Roman Army, was martyred not for refusing to fight but for refusing to renounce Christ.

When God said "you shall not kill" he wasnt kidding. When Jesus said "whatever you do to my bretheren you do for me" he also wasn't kidding. When He said "LOVE your enemies," he probably wasn't kidding again. There has to be a reason that the "peacemakers" are called "blessed." "All who draw the sword will die by the sword."
Funny, the words of Jesus don't seem "twisted" or "overly political." In fact, they are pretty blunt.

Romans chapter 3 is VERY clear in stating that war is a direct result of sin

The early Church was ALL pacifist until the Romans decided to force them into military service.

The best and most truly Christian statement is in Ecclesiastes (chapter 3 verse 7 or 8 if i remember correctly) when the Word of God states that there is "a time for war and a time for peace."

Let's put the Christian views of war to rest.

 

[8744]

Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean. What do you mean by the money changers? Why would those who are not saved have a problem with it?

Duplicate

 

[8744]

Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean. What do you mean by the money changers? Why would those who are not saved have a problem with it?

Have you read the Bible?

 

[Wannabemed]

Have you read the Bible?

Here's a real "war hero" you can look up to, Panda:

http://www.peacehost.net/Charlie/article.html

Here's an excerpt:

"....Back in 1966, when Charlie Liteky, the priest, volunteered to be an Army chaplain in Vietnam, the notion of no-exceptions nonviolence was missing from his personal radar screen. The son of a career Navy noncommissioned officer, Liteky was comfortable with the military; he trusted its ways.

"I cannot believe the attitudes I had in '66, the things I believed," he said. "I'd been taught about the evils of communism and the just-war theory. I had no problems with us being in Vietnam. I thought I was doing God's work."

To hear the survivors of a Dec. 6, 1967, firefight in Bien Hoa province tell it, Father Angelo (Liteky's ordination name) DID seem to be working for a higher power. Crawling repeatedly through machine gun fire, he dragged 23 wounded soldiers from his battalion to safety in a medical helicopter landing area.

Eleven months later, President Lyndon B. Johnson presented Liteky with this country's top award for heroism in combat, the Medal of Honor.

In July 1986, in protest of U.S. aid to the contras in Nicaragua, Liteky gave the medal back - with a letter to President Ronald Reagan that he laid at the base of the Vietnam memorial in Washington, D.C.

"That was when Ronald Reagan was comparing the contras to the moral equivalent of our Founding Fathers," said Liteky. "By then I'd begun to wake up about what my country was doing to Latin America. I'd studied the history and talked to refugees here in San Francisco.

"Then I had to go down and see for myself, to El Salvador, Nicaragua and Honduras. I was ashamed of my country. And I was ashamed I'd participated in the same thing in Vietnam....."

 

[8744]

When God said "you shall not kill" he wasnt kidding. When Jesus said "whatever you do to my bretheren you do for me" he also wasn't kidding. When He said "LOVE your enemies," he probably wasn't kidding again. There has to be a reason that the "peacemakers" are called "blessed." "All who draw the sword will die by the sword."
Funny, the words of Jesus don't seem "twisted" or "overly political." In fact, they are pretty blunt.

Romans chapter 3 is VERY clear in stating that war is a direct result of sin

The early Church was ALL pacifist until the Romans decided to force them into military service.

The best and most truly Christian statement is in Ecclesiastes (chapter 3 verse 7 or 8 if i remember correctly) when the Word of God states that there is "a time for war and a time for peace."

Let's put the Christian views of war to rest.

Again, this is not true. Christianity was embraced by the soldiers of the Roman Army. Saint George was executed because, during a time of pogroms against Christians, he refused to renounce the faith, even though given an opportunity to retain his rank and station by doing so (or at least that's the legend).

The Roman Army of the Fourth Century AD was a professional organization and they did not have a "draft" as we understand it today where people were forced to serve.

 

[medstudent24]

Maybe the title of this should be changed to...


Paper Cut VS Gun Shot/IED Injury

Oh wait, the MCAT is electronic, so I guess you could spill your water and get electrocuted??

I vote Iraq ....MCAT

 

[kylek044]

Again, this is not true. Christianity was embraced by the soldiers of the Roman Army. Saint George was executed because, during a time of pogroms against Christians, he refused to renounce the faith, even though given an opportunity to retain his rank and station by doing so (or at least that's the legend).

The Roman Army of the Fourth Century AD was a professional organization and they did not have a "draft" as we understand it today where people were forced to serve.

I very strongly disagree. The early Christians (meaning before 313 AD) were pacifists. They did not organize an army against the Romans during the persecutions and refused to serve in the Roman army after its legalization by Constantine. It wasn't until later that Theodosius made Christianity the official religion of Rome that Christians even considered service. At this point, the Army was REQUIRED to be Christians.

You can kindly consult any history book on the matter. If Christianity was illegal until the late 3rd century, they couldnt have served in the army...and there is nothing to show that they in any way organized fighting against anyone.

 

[kylek044]

Edit: I apologize for the double post

 

[BarrySanders]

Have you read the Bible?

No I have not read the Bible in its entirety. Is that a requirement for you to answer my question? Why are you focusing on St George and Roman empire? Christianity involves in a nutshell believing that Jesus Christ is the Saviour and trying to be as Christ-like as possible. Show me where it says Jesus killed someone or harmed someone and I will whole-heartedly agree with you that it is not a sin to kill your enemy. But as I recall from a passage that I did in fact read in the Bible, Jesus prayed for those that were responsible for crucifying him.

 

[MirrorTodd]

Not to discredit Christianity or anything, but is it really a sin when they were fated to crucify him in the first place? It's not like they could do anything about it. Even if they could, who's to say that the world wouldn't have ended if they had never fulfilled the prophecies. What's a worse sin, going against God's word that was told through the prophets or crucifying Jesus to fulfill those same prophecies?

 

[TM2006]

Oh TM2006, your facts are overwhelming me. Your posts are just littered with emotional outbursts, so forgive me if I could never take you seriously....The funny thing is I probably agree on more points than I disagree with you, but you are so far up your a$$ you'd never know.

it's hard arguing against facts isn't it? Again all I have said so far: the military is a killing machine. Those who join the military become trained killers. doctors are trained to heal. there is a difference.

For your information, my husband is a RESCUE SWIMMER....notice the key word "rescue" in there...he's more highly trained in saving people's lives than any 4th year medical student, and I'm pretty sure if it were him and some residents in a room with a trauma case, he would be calling the shots. Your perception of the military trained to kill is completely incorrect. Of the thousands of guys that my husband is with right this second, I assure you he is one of the FEW (probably about a hundred) who actually knows how to handle a gun, he's been in Iraq 3 times, been shot at many times, and never has shot back...so please, until you know what you're talking about, just stop talking.

"A rose by any other name would smell as sweet." If he was trained to handle a weapon...he was trained to kill, fulfilling the function of the military.

I guess the thousands of Iraqis killed in this war have just been committing suicide.

 

[kylek044]

Not to discredit Christianity or anything, but is it really a sin when they were fated to crucify him in the first place? It's not like they could do anything about it. Even if they could, who's to say that the world wouldn't have ended if they had never fulfilled the prophecies. What's a worse sin, going against God's word that was told through the prophets or crucifying Jesus to fulfill those same prophecies?

Jesus wasn't killed to fulfill a prophecy. His death and Resurrection happened to fulfill some Old Testament prophecies (not all of them...but the one's he didn't fulfill were removed from the Bible). Jesus was killed for committing blasphemy. Jewish law at the time was specifically against allowing the Jewish authorities to order the death penalty because it was sinful. What this is dealing with is known as the "Central Mystery" of Christianity. The mystery is that this New Life and the Saving Powers of God came about because of human sin (the crucification of Jesus).

 

[MarathonMan]

Thought ld revive this post now that I've made my decision to come to Iraq and am currently in Baghdad. I am now working as a Translator for the Army. Been here 6wks and started wondering about my application process that I'll start next summer. Anyone have any idea if my work here will be seen in a negative or positive light at med schools? for Example at schools in more liberal cities rejecting Vs more conservative accepting? I'd like to go to a school in NYC, MSSM, NYU, Cornell, or Columbia. My new MCAT score (took it in May 07) is 30S (11P, 10B, 9V) and a 3.6 GPA from Emory. I'd really appreciate any thoughts.
As for what its like here, I'll tell you the work is great. I'm well treated and respected. the protection is excellent on and off base, and the food and living quarters are great. the only worries I have are occasional mortars. Thanks for any replies!
MM

 

[Old Grunt]

Hey all, I've applied to med school a couple of times and found that my 28R mcat wasn't enough to get me into med school. As it is, I gotta retake the MCAT to get in. I also recently got back from studying Arabic in Egypt for a long time (couple years) and I've been recruited to go to Iraq to work with the US military as an interpreter and get paid 6 figures. Lately I've been really lacking motivation to study for the MCAT and really don't know if I wanna retry, maybe later, but now I just want to go abroad again. However, i know there are a lot of moral issues regarding working for the Army in Iraq (via a private contractor), not to mention physical dangers. My question is, what would you do in my situation? Do you think it's right for a person to support the military there given the current situation? If not why? if so, why? Would you take this opportunity or just say the heck with it and apply to med school. Thanks so much for any advice!

It's a personal decision. I spent a year in Afghanistan as a soldier.

From my perspective, you should ask yourself why you want to go play IED roulette in Iraq? Is there some sort of deep rooted patriotic or driving motivation for you to go there? If not, or if it's just for the money, I wouldn't do it. But only you can answer that question. If you are an American terp, you probably will be attached to intelligence assets and not Infantry, but you will still be outside of the wire and that's dangerous.

That being said, I've had two interviews and my military service has been a plus not a minus. It will make you stand out. However, so will getting a 36 on your MCAT and that doesn't take a year or endanger your life.

You should also take your contract to a lawyer and have him look over it. Could you get out of it after a month or two if you don't like it? Will your company sue you for breach? Can you be legally compelled to do something you might not want to do?

I would just think very hard about it. Invaribly when people ask me about joining the military, I always tell them not to do it unless they just have a drive to serve their country. Joining up for the money or college benefits or whatever always leads to disgruntlement in my personal experience.

Good luck with whatever you do.

 

[Old Grunt]

I feel that it should be pointed out that the OP would be a civilian contractor over there, who works with the military. The OP wouldn't actually be a soldier. Some people might not see much of a difference, but there is a huge difference. The OP will not be treated the same and will be at the mercy of whatever the army wants from him. Granted it is possible that they will go over there and not be bothered. However, it is a pretty fair assumption that as an interpreter the army will have a great need for their skills.

Where you in 2nd BDE?

I was in 3rd, 25th ID.

 

[Old Grunt]

Thought ld revive this post now that I've made my decision to come to Iraq and am currently in Baghdad. I am now working as a Translator for the Army. Been here 6wks and started wondering about my application process that I'll start next summer. Anyone have any idea if my work here will be seen in a negative or positive light at med schools? for Example at schools in more liberal cities rejecting Vs more conservative accepting? I'd like to go to a school in NYC, MSSM, NYU, Cornell, or Columbia. My new MCAT score (took it in May 07) is 30S (11P, 10B, 9V) and a 3.6 GPA from Emory. I'd really appreciate any thoughts.
As for what its like here, I'll tell you the work is great. I'm well treated and respected. the protection is excellent on and off base, and the food and living quarters are great. the only worries I have are occasional mortars. Thanks for any replies!
MM

Sorry, I didn't notice the date of your OP. Looks like you've made up your mind.

Good luck and stay safe. Again, my service has been a plus and the politics have never been an issue. Most people can seperate the people who serve their country (in whatever capacity) with the politicians who put them there.

I am sure it will serve you well when you apply. I'd make sure to work it into your personal statement, if not just making your entire personal statement about what you saw over there.

 

[MedSchlHopeful]

*******EDIT********* I should have read the whole thread first! lol

 

[bellacnella]

.

 

[elderjack21]

Thought ld revive this post now that I've made my decision to come to Iraq and am currently in Baghdad. I am now working as a Translator for the Army. Been here 6wks and started wondering about my application process that I'll start next summer. Anyone have any idea if my work here will be seen in a negative or positive light at med schools? for Example at schools in more liberal cities rejecting Vs more conservative accepting? I'd like to go to a school in NYC, MSSM, NYU, Cornell, or Columbia. My new MCAT score (took it in May 07) is 30S (11P, 10B, 9V) and a 3.6 GPA from Emory. I'd really appreciate any thoughts.
As for what its like here, I'll tell you the work is great. I'm well treated and respected. the protection is excellent on and off base, and the food and living quarters are great. the only worries I have are occasional mortars. Thanks for any replies!
MM

First off stay safe. I have been to both Iraq and Afghanistan and even though the protection is excellent, stay safe.

Second. Your experience in Iraq will be a huge boost to your ECs for medical schools. My stats are similar to yours and I have been very well received by many schools (hopefully that holds out when they send letter of acceptance

I know you don’t have much free time (my last deployment I worked every day 13-14 hours a day for six months straight, no days off); but if you get a free evening or morning, go over to the nearest combat support hospital or treatment facility and shadow a doctor. They will let you get involved and see what they do. This will be another great EC for your application.

You may be able to organize something through your home town to bring in donated medical supplies, humanitarian supplies, sister-school or city program or something, also another great EC.

I have interviewed with several people who were less than supportive of the current war and the military in general. Aside from some people who have posted in this thread who seem to be very close minded and uneducated about military service, what it is about and what it means, those that interview you (even the anti-military ones I mentioned) will see you as a future doctor, not as one involved in or responsible for our nations problem in Iraq.

They will want to hear your perspective on the situation there (because they all know that what you see in the newspaper is just to sell news), they will want to see how you maintained your desire to practice medicine (did I mention that you need to go to the hospital while you are there) and how the experience shaped you as an individual, because it will change you, no doubt about it.

Best of luck!

 

[Old Grunt]

First off stay safe. I have been to both Iraq and Afghanistan and even though the protection is excellent, stay safe.

Second. Your experience in Iraq will be a huge boost to your ECs for medical schools. My stats are similar to yours and I have been very well received by many schools (hopefully that holds out when they send letter of acceptance

I know you don't have much free time (my last deployment I worked every day 13-14 hours a day for six months straight, no days off); but if you get a free evening or morning, go over to the nearest combat support hospital or treatment facility and shadow a doctor. They will let you get involved and see what they do. This will be another great EC for your application.

You may be able to organize something through your home town to bring in donated medical supplies, humanitarian supplies, sister-school or city program or something, also another great EC.

I have interviewed with several people who were less than supportive of the current war and the military in general. Aside from some people who have posted in this thread who seem to be very close minded and uneducated about military service, what it is about and what it means, those that interview you (even the anti-military ones I mentioned) will see you as a future doctor, not as one involved in or responsible for our nations problem in Iraq.

They will want to hear your perspective on the situation there (because they all know that what you see in the newspaper is just to sell news), they will want to see how you maintained your desire to practice medicine (did I mention that you need to go to the hospital while you are there) and how the experience shaped you as an individual, because it will change you, no doubt about it.

Best of luck!

Yes it always amazes me how much the people who have never been in combat know about combat.

 

[Monarch Kong]

haha, this reminds me of the johns hopkins vs. southern illinois thread

Lol, nice analogy.