Hi, I'm a Chiropractor :)

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Mad Jack said:
That's actually not the worst I've seen him do. His lumbar manipulation makes me wince with pain errytime.
Click to expand...
LOL! look at a few comments on that video...
Members don't see this ad.
 
Can you tell us about any studies that demonstrate how chiropractic manipulation improves wellness and prevents illness or injury?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N930A using SDN mobile
 
You are absolutely right regarding reimbursement. Most chiropractic treatment isn't reimbursed at all by Medicare.

The only CPT codes that are are 98941 and 98942. These are reimbursed between $45 and $50 depending upon the state that you live in.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N930A using SDN mobile
 
Members don't see this ad :)
DC-holla said:
InternalmedNP- thank you. I knew i would be seeing the typical response "Chiros are wack and don't follow MD Empire instructions" but I was looking for answers to my question, which I did get! From most all :)

ampaphb- in addition to just answer my question based on your experience, I actually thought i was scott free in tne insult department. Give a girl a heads up please if you're going to continually bend me over and bang me without lube on a Friday at that. in regards to numbers that don't exist and assuming my GPA is in the 2.x range? Wrong (in Trump's voice)
Hell yes Chiropractors go after a lot of PIP and L&I, we can get the patient better, and functioning fast and get paid better for it. $45an hr is wrong for Medicaid. so are my GPA and insurance and overhead costs. but I ain't bouts to tell a doc hez wrong mite risk lozin referrals, then I'd beh effed.

I knew I'd have to listen to opinions I don't agree with. I havent insulted any of you with my thoughts. I am not anti medicine. I'm pro do your own research which includes finding out hard truths that i WILL tell every patient: if you smoke, stop now. if you're overweight, let's form a realistic exercise and meal plan. Most patients who don't want to hear these things are medicare patients on a **** load of opioids who say "I love seeing you, but I'm only here because my pain doc told me I had to choose to see a Chiropractor or pt if I still wanted my meds." <<what the hell is that noise?

Some of the docs i work closely with are dudes who's got MD's on the end of their names, who sends MVA patients to me, who whip out a bottle of oxycodone-apap #180. and the first thing the pts with no rx experience say is, "I have all these pain pills and I'm not sure how he thinks I'll need 6 a day so tomorrow at the office I'll be the percocet fairy, 2 for you, 2 for you, 2 for you hahaha." talk about SCARY.

I recieve about 5 calls a week from lawyers (don't get me started) who ask me to lunch, then proceed to propose an arrangement for their MVA, L&I or care other clients cases their handling. I accept them all. Great money.

Chiro is way different than medicine. can't be compared. pt shows up to me complaint of bladder infection symptoms. straight to urgent care they go, no adjustment for you today! pt shows up to me with low back pain.... is it complicated UTI that's moved to the kidneys, possible stone? I'm willing to do the adjustment then make some suggestions.

We have to work together and all the MD'S have been super nice to me thus far. no complaints :p:cool::banana:
Click to expand...
:nono:
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
DC-holla forget all the haters here. I think your kinda hot. I'll take you up on your face time offer to learn more ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
Michael_Scott said:
To be fair to the physicians in here, I think you brought up this bogus topic and the foreseeable tension. You are not going to change anyone's mind here as physicians are trained well in their art and chiropractors cannot take any piece of that or provide any treatment superior to anything physicians can.
Not trying to discount what you guys are doing but some of the treatments you listed put a glorified massage therapist vibe.
To add, I am a supporter of exploring ayurvedic medicine...so not close minded to different forms of healing.
Click to expand...


He's not decompressing anything with an impulse lasting a few milliseconds.

However, this type of manipulation works fantastic for cervical and upper thoracic restrictions. I love getting this type of manipulation done on myself every few months. Works absolutely fantastic for acute/subacute segmental dysfunction. Its prevented me from needing PT and interventional procedures.

It is probably a little safer than the more traditional cervical manipulation with rotational forces involved...probably.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
ampaphb said:
Can you tell us about any studies that demonstrate how chiropractic manipulation improves wellness and prevents illness or injury?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N930A using SDN mobile
Click to expand...

The national library of medicine had a few things to say. It's not a 3rd party biased bs site. I will also answer the question about subluxation, but in the next post. Here's how useful chiro care was in several studies conducted:

Chiropractic Use in the United States
In the United States, chiropractic is often considered a complementary health approach. According to the 2007 National Health Interview Survey (NHIS), which included a comprehensive survey of the use of complementary health approaches by Americans, about 8 percent of adults (more than 18 million) and nearly 3 percent of children (more than 2 million) had received chiropractic or osteopathic manipulation in the past 12 months. Additionally, an analysis of NHIS cost data found that adults in the United States spent approximately $11.9 billion out-of-pocket on visits to complementary health practitioners—$3.9 billion of which was spent on visits to practitioners for chiropractic or osteopathic manipulation.

Many people who seek chiropractic care have low-back pain. People also commonly seek chiropractic care for other kinds of musculoskeletal pain (e.g., neck, shoulder), headaches, and extremity (e.g., hand or foot) problems.

An analysis of the use of complementary health approaches for back pain, based on data from the 2002 NHIS, found that chiropractic was by far the most commonly used therapy. Among survey respondents who had used any of these therapies for their back pain, 74 percent (approximately 4 million Americans) had used chiropractic. Among those who had used chiropractic for back pain, 66 percent perceived “great benefit” from their treatment

What the Science Says
Researchers have studied spinal manipulation for a number of conditions ranging from back, neck, and shoulder pain to asthma, carpal tunnel syndrome, fibromyalgia, and headaches. Much of the research has focused on low-back pain, and has shown that spinal manipulation appears to benefit some people with this condition. (For more information, see the Spinal Manipulation for Low-Back Pain fact sheet.)

A 2010 review of scientific evidence on manual therapies for a range of conditions concluded that spinal manipulation/mobilization may be helpful for several conditions in addition to back pain, including migraine and cervicogenic (neck-related) headaches, neck pain, upper- and lower-extremity joint conditions, and whiplash-associated disorders. The review also identified a number of conditions for which spinal manipulation/mobilization appears not to be helpful (including asthma, hypertension, and menstrual pain) or the evidence is inconclusive (e.g., fibromyalgia, mid-back pain, premenstrual syndrome, sciatica, and temporomandibular joint disorders).

Resources
  • Agency for Health Care Policy and Research. Chiropractic in the United States: Training, Practice, and Research. Rockville, MD: Agency for Health Care Policy and Research; 1997. AHCPR publication no. 98–N002.
  • Barnes PM, Bloom B, Nahin RL. Complementary and alternative medicine use among adults and children: United States, 2007. CDC National Health Statistics Report #12. 2008.
  • Bronfort G, Haas M, Evans Chiropractic & Osteopathy. 2010;18(3):1–33.
https://nccih.nih.gov/health/chiropractic/introduction.htm[/QUOTE]
 
Michael_Scott said:
To be fair to the physicians in here, I think you brought up this bogus topic and the foreseeable tension. You are not going to change anyone's mind here as physicians are trained well in their art and chiropractors cannot take any piece of that or provide any treatment superior to anything physicians can.
Not trying to discount what you guys are doing but some of the treatments you listed put a glorified massage therapist vibe.
To add, I am a supporter of exploring ayurvedic medicine...so not close minded to different forms of healing.
Click to expand...


Haha I love dr. Greg although we used to always make fun of his technique. especially the towel whip. he's a chiropractor ninja
 
InternalMedNP said:
The problem with this is that this response can be attributed to a placebo effect. Which a lot of people will say, who cares, as long as they get relief why does it matter. However, as many have said before there are many, many, risks with Chiropractic treatments. So why not use a placebo with less risk such as massage therapy? Or have them stick with evidence based PT.
Click to expand...
I think the risk is somewhat dependent on the individual chiro. I've had pts say that the chiro "wouldn't touch" them. Chiros are human beings with a lot of variance in intelligence, training, experience, etc. I'm not sure it's fair to judge an entire profession based on these events. Clearly it's not without risk.

Things like PT are a given, as part of the standard of care. Massage, acupuncture, chiro are presented when the pt asks for something else. I'm not any kind of activist. I just provide the options and do my best to educate the pt.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
hyperalgesia said:
I think the risk is somewhat dependent on the individual chiro. I've had pts say that the chiro "wouldn't touch" them. Chiros are human beings with a lot of variance in intelligence, training, experience, etc. I don't think it's fair to judge an entire profession based on these events. Clearly it's not without risk.

Things like PT are a given, as part of the standard of care. Massage, acupuncture, chiro are presented when the pt asks for something else. I'm not any kind of activist. I just provide the options and do my best to educate the pt.
Click to expand...

And I hope that with all the new generations to come out of Palmer and UWS that we can change the hocus Pocus sterotype.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
Do you call yourself a chiropractic physician? Do you think this is appropriate labeling by your peers?
 
clubdeac said:
DC-holla forget all the haters here. I think your kinda hot. I'll take you up on your face time offer to learn more ;)
Click to expand...

Lmao. hey back off that offer was to me first....ha!

Girrllll for all non chiro convo pm me ;-) ha
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
sb247 said:
I was apparently wrong about the conversation being productive. We can finally have that SDN bachelorette season we've been asking for. You kids be safe ;)
Click to expand...

I was looking for productive. And all in all, i did get some diverse answers before the trolls invaded. Thanks for giving it a chance. If I wanted to be nasty back, I could. But then I think, why intentionally hurt someone? I'm so happy with my life and where I'm at so far.....I'm 26 years old, and living MY dream. It took a lot of hard work to achieve it! I don't need to lecture you, half the damn posts on here are from those of you who are asking advice on how/if they should get out. Anyways. Sad.
Have a good day yall

Here's Bear :bear::bear::bear:
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
you dont need a college degree to go to chiropractic school (at least some). that means that the d-bag contractor who wont return your calls or the electrician who finished 1 year of vocational school can crack your back and recommend bogus supplements if they bother to apply and pay the tuition.

DC-holla, you seem relatively reasonable. do some manipulation, refer out sooner rather than later, and don't get sucked in to the more "liberal" side of your profession.

most importantly: understand that you don't know what you don't know. you really can't, with your training. dont get too big for your britches.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
DC-holla said:
YES
Click to expand...
But you're not physicians. By definition, "physician" means a person qualified to practice medicine. Much as osteopaths trained outside of the US are not osteopathic physicians, chiropractors practice only chiropractic, not broad-based medicine, and thus are not physicians. It's the reason dentists are not dental physicians, optometrists are not optometric physicians, physical therapists are not physical therapy physicians, etc.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 7 users
DC-holla said:
I was looking for productive. And all in all, i did get some diverse answers before the trolls invaded. Thanks for giving it a chance. If I wanted to be nasty back, I could. But then I think, why intentionally hurt someone? I'm so happy with my life and where I'm at so far.....I'm 26 years old, and living MY dream. It took a lot of hard work to achieve it! I don't need to lecture you, half the damn posts on here are from those of you who are asking advice on how/if they should get out. Anyways. Sad.
Have a good day yall

Here's Bear :bear::bear::bear:
Click to expand...



Just because you're 26 years old and doing great and living your dream (I assumed you meant making loads of money), it doesn't mean you deserve to be called "physician".

Just because you're getting tons of patients from PI lawyers, it doesn't mean what you're doing is not dangerous and most of time useless.

Most of all, just because you're young and ignorant, it doesn't mean you can pretend you know what you don't know.

Stay in your comfort zone and be content with what you have. The moment you try to step over and justify your existence and demand for RESPECT of you or your profession, you lose more respect from others.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 6 users
Most doctors seeing 80 patients a day would end up being charged for insurance fraud or medicare/medicaid fraud. Doctors are paid $44 by insurance for a level 3 (15 min) patient visit and have to try to collect the balance of $16 from the patient, utilizing a billing service or in house billing that costs 4-8%, so don't be upset at us for the arrogance and greed of chiropractors. Most of us practicing medicine for a long time have acquired a long list of of unsavory and fraudulent practices exemplified by chiropractors including their holding themselves out to be neurologists, radiologists, allergists, and family doctors. Surface EMG is quackery as is ultrasound diagnostics of the cervical spine with findings that would be laughable if they were not so dangerously misleading. Oh and don't forget the specific vertebral segments some chiropractors claim they can isolate on a traction machine, not having a clue about fundamental spring dynamic and intradiscal physics. The "supplement" therapies in which the chiropractor makes vast sums of income selling treatments that have no proven benefit are disgusting and predatory.
You may well be the exception in chiropractic, in which case I would offer that you are really better than to associate yourself professionally with quacks and thieves. Continue your education and apply to medical school, or obtain your PhD and do something really useful in your life. Make your life something extraordinary- something it will not be as a chiropractor.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
Ligament said:
He's not decompressing anything with an impulse lasting a few milliseconds.

However, this type of manipulation works fantastic for cervical and upper thoracic restrictions. I love getting this type of manipulation done on myself every few months. Works absolutely fantastic for acute/subacute segmental dysfunction. Its prevented me from needing PT and interventional procedures.

It is probably a little safer than the more traditional cervical manipulation with rotational forces involved...probably.
Click to expand...


You aren't serious are you? Holy crap that looks scary as hell jerking the neck like that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
DC-holla said:
I was looking for productive. And all in all, i did get some diverse answers before the trolls invaded. Thanks for giving it a chance. If I wanted to be nasty back, I could. But then I think, why intentionally hurt someone? I'm so happy with my life and where I'm at so far.....I'm 26 years old, and living MY dream. It took a lot of hard work to achieve it! I don't need to lecture you, half the damn posts on here are from those of you who are asking advice on how/if they should get out. Anyways. Sad.
Have a good day yall

Here's Bear :bear::bear::bear:
Click to expand...


Delete due to sensibility issues
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
algosdoc said:
Most doctors seeing 80 patients a day would end up being charged for insurance fraud or medicare/medicaid fraud. Doctors are paid $44 by insurance for a level 3 (15 min) patient visit and have to try to collect the balance of $16 from the patient, utilizing a billing service or in house billing that costs 4-8%, so don't be upset at us for the arrogance and greed of chiropractors. Most of us practicing medicine for a long time have acquired a long list of of unsavory and fraudulent practices exemplified by chiropractors including their holding themselves out to be neurologists, radiologists, allergists, and family doctors. Surface EMG is quackery as is ultrasound diagnostics of the cervical spine with findings that would be laughable if they were not so dangerously misleading. Oh and don't forget the specific vertebral segments some chiropractors claim they can isolate on a traction machine, not having a clue about fundamental spring dynamic and intradiscal physics. The "supplement" therapies in which the chiropractor makes vast sums of income selling treatments that have no proven benefit are disgusting and predatory.
You may well be the exception in chiropractic, in which case I would offer that you are really better than to associate yourself professionally with quacks and thieves. Continue your education and apply to medical school, or obtain your PhD and do something really useful in your life. Make your life something extraordinary- something it will not be as a chiropractor.
Click to expand...


Sounds alot like "Dr Oz" though. He makes 10s of millions of year selling crap supplements and telling fat women they are "beautiful".

Seems alot better than breaking your butt as a cardiac surgeon.
 
upload_2016-11-7_8-8-53.png


See the answers are all right here, on my "Thermal ScaM"
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
DrCommonSense said:
You aren't serious are you? Holy crap that looks scary as hell jerking the neck like that.
Click to expand...

I am serious actually. Works fantastic for me, personally. Looks scary. I cannot say it is super super safe, but based on the published incidence of vertebral artery injury with cervical manipulation the risk is minimal, thought present. For me, the benefits outweigh the risks (continued pain, risks of medications, injections...).
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Ligament said:
I am serious actually. Works fantastic for me, personally. Looks scary. I cannot say it is super super safe, but based on the published incidence of vertebral artery injury with cervical manipulation the risk is minimal, thought present. For me, the benefits outweigh the risks (continued pain, risks of medications, injections...).
Click to expand...

I also get occasional lumbar and mid thoracic high velocity manipulation via DO colleague or chiro. Quite helpful for me. I do that when keeping up w my home exercise program and occasional NSAID doesn't cut it. Nearly always does the trick. 1-3 sessions.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app
 
Ligament said:
I am serious actually. Works fantastic for me, personally. Looks scary. I cannot say it is super super safe, but based on the published incidence of vertebral artery injury with cervical manipulation the risk is minimal, thought present. For me, the benefits outweigh the risks (continued pain, risks of medications, injections...).
Click to expand...
Yes-probably somewhat safer than the HVLA with rotational component seen in the other video above.
 
SSdoc33 said:
you dont need a college degree to go to chiropractic school (at least some). that means that the d-bag contractor who wont return your calls or the electrician who finished 1 year of vocational school can crack your back and recommend bogus supplements if they bother to apply and pay the tuition.

DC-holla, you seem relatively reasonable. do some manipulation, refer out sooner rather than later, and don't get sucked in to the more "liberal" side of your profession.

most importantly: understand that you don't know what you don't know. you really can't, with your training. dont get too big for your britches.
Click to expand...

Thanks.
On the west coast you need a BA before applying to any DC school. on the east coast it's an AA
 
drpainfree said:
Just because you're 26 years old and doing great and living your dream (I assumed you meant making loads of money), it doesn't mean you deserve to be called "physician".

Just because you're getting tons of patients from PI lawyers, it doesn't mean what you're doing is not dangerous and most of time useless.

Most of all, just because you're young and ignorant, it doesn't mean you can pretend you know what you don't know.

Stay in your comfort zone and be content with what you have. The moment you try to step over and justify your existence and demand for RESPECT of you or your profession, you lose more respect from others.
Click to expand...

I think many of you need to reread my original post. You're all telling me to not talk about what I don't know ,ect. ect. Well if you had read what I originally posted, you would understand that I'm AGREEING with the decision that chiropractic care is for mobility, rehabilitation related care only, and that previous physicians have given DC'S a bad rep.

How come all of my patients are improving? and you also misread when I said seeing 80 patients a day was my EXTERNSHIP. So those of you accusing me of insurance fraud.... wrong again.

You should retain and absorb the entire message before making those kind of statements. Maybe this is why so many patients say they're docs don't listen.....
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
;)
 

Attachments

  • FB_IMG_1475810278515.jpg
    FB_IMG_1475810278515.jpg
    69.3 KB · Views: 210
DC-holla said:
;)
Click to expand...

And then there's that little thing called clinical rotations in hospital for 2 years as a med student after the 2 years of classroom followed by residency with 60-80 hours/week for 3-6+ years. So your post is not the least bit misleading.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
Ligament said:
I am serious actually. Works fantastic for me, personally. Looks scary. I cannot say it is super super safe, but based on the published incidence of vertebral artery injury with cervical manipulation the risk is minimal, thought present. For me, the benefits outweigh the risks (continued pain, risks of medications, injections...).
Click to expand...

Problem is the non-published cases. There are plenty of CVA after cervical HVLA, that don't get published. Personally saw two in residency.

I'm fine with chiropractic manipulation of thoracic and lumbar spine. I send some patients with pure axial T or L spine pain to chiropractors that I trust, ones that don't call themselves chiropractic physicians and don't tell patients they can cure visceral pathology with spinal manipulations.

I don't recommend cervical HVLA, and don't refer to chiro for this.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
DC-holla said:
I think many of you need to reread my original post. You're all telling me to not talk about what I don't know ,ect. ect. Well if you had read what I originally posted, you would understand that I'm AGREEING with the decision that chiropractic care is for mobility, rehabilitation related care only, and that previous physicians have given DC'S a bad rep.

How come all of my patients are improving? and you also misread when I said seeing 80 patients a day was my EXTERNSHIP. So those of you accusing me of insurance fraud.... wrong again.

You should retain and absorb the entire message before making those kind of statements. Maybe this is why so many patients say they're docs don't listen.....
Click to expand...
You called chiros "physicians" again. That bothers people who actually are physicians
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
DC,

I have had a number of patients benefit with chiropractic care.

IMHO, chiropractic manipulation is a useful tool. Just as PT, aquatherapy, OMT, etc.

As with any surgery/medication/therapy, there is not one size fits/cures all.

Thank you for sharing your perspectives.

Cheers
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
DC-holla said:
;)
Click to expand...
Those 2700 hours are done in 2 years of medical school, followed by two additional years of rotations, calls, etc. Year 3 and 4 of medical school is not classroom based.
I am not sure what kind of residency chiros do? (Dont answer it - its a rhetoric question).
The physical, emotional and mental strength required to survive residency is another ball game. Then there are the first few years of being an attending.

I sincerely request that you stop calling yourself a "physician". It confuses patients who, depending on their level of education and familiarity with the different "providers", may trust you to care for them when you may not have the training or competence to do so. That is dangerous.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
DC-holla said:
;)
Click to expand...

Did you know this graph (referring to the attachment above) is incredibly insulting and incorrect? It's one of the main reasons there are poor relations between most chiropractors and physicians. (This is coming from someone who is an avid supporter of your profession.)
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users
You must log in or register to reply here.
Next unread thread

Similar threads

bedrock
Really glad I’m no longer running a private California medical practice
2 3
Replies
135
Views
5K
Ducttape
D
D
HR 2654 - chiropractor modernization
Replies
14
Views
1K
Pain Applicant1
Pain Applicant1
Ligament
A Nurse Practitioner and a Chiropractor walk into a procedure room and...stellate ganglion block
2
Replies
74
Views
9K
buddababa
B
bedrock
C arm history
Replies
3
Views
380
Doctodd
D
drusso
"I'm An Unapologetic Opioid/Pain Patient"
Replies
3
Views
1K
raptor5
raptor5
Top