Honest Advice: Should I give up on med school

[chemdoctor]

So I posted something like this last December and nobody really gave me a clear cut answer.

Not sure what to do.

cGPA is around a 3.4, same goes for sGPA or maybe a bit lower.

Last semester, I got a D in Biochem. Got A's in everything else, this semester, didnt retake Biochem but got A's in some other upper divisions.

I'm only worried because Biochem is so important for the MCAT/med school. I previously struggled in Orgo too. Not sure what to do.

Should I go to PA school?

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[Campana]

So I posted something like this last December and nobody really gave me a clear cut answer.

Not sure what to do.

cGPA is around a 3.4, same goes for sGPA or maybe a bit lower.

Last semester, I got a D in Biochem. Got A's in everything else, this semester, didnt retake Biochem but got A's in some other upper divisions.

I'm only worried because Biochem is so important for the MCAT/med school. I previously struggled in Orgo too. Not sure what to do.

Should I go to PA school?

I'll bite. You should:
- determine why you want to be a doctor (shadowing helps)
- determine if other roles in healing would make you comparably fulfilled in life
- if MD/DO route is still your passion, make a plan to get the GPA and MCAT that will give you the best chance possible (for you) to get admitted
- part of that plan should include learning what to do differently to get past those struggles in Orgo and Biochem (and I think a D merits a retake)

I don't think a 3.4 is terrible; I'd say Stanford or Harvard are are more than a reach, but state schools, DO, don't seem unreasonable. It sounds like you're still in Jr year maybe? You may have quite a few units left to affect your overall c/sGPAs. You could still have a post-bacc or SMP as tools to use. Your MCAT would be a big piece of that application metric still.

Question you should ask yourself is what you really want to do as a career - make sure you understand what those careers look like for real, then figure out how to attain that goal (GPA/MCAT/1000 Clinical Hrs)

Good luck!

 

[Woe_is_me23]

What do you WANT to do?

Do you want a job with many of the same clinical tasks— with far better hours, and more humane training, but likely with less potential for leadership, and probably with less responsibility (for better or for worse depending on your goals)? Only you can answer that question. Some people don’t care at all about the breadth and responsibilites than an MD can provide, and some people would be very dissatisfied by being a PA.

Also, where do you think you went wrong in the biochem class?

 

[Goro]

So I posted something like this last December and nobody really gave me a clear cut answer.

Not sure what to do.

cGPA is around a 3.4, same goes for sGPA or maybe a bit lower.

Last semester, I got a D in Biochem. Got A's in everything else, this semester, didnt retake Biochem but got A's in some other upper divisions.

I'm only worried because Biochem is so important for the MCAT/med school. I previously struggled in Orgo too. Not sure what to do.

Should I go to PA school?

It's too early to panic. You should retake the Biochem, and ace it.

 

[chemdoctor]

I'll bite. You should:
- determine why you want to be a doctor (shadowing helps)
- determine if other roles in healing would make you comparably fulfilled in life
- if MD/DO route is still your passion, make a plan to get the GPA and MCAT that will give you the best chance possible (for you) to get admitted
- part of that plan should include learning what to do differently to get past those struggles in Orgo and Biochem (and I think a D merits a retake)

I don't think a 3.4 is terrible; I'd say Stanford or Harvard are are more than a reach, but state schools, DO, don't seem unreasonable. It sounds like you're still in Jr year maybe? You may have quite a few units left to affect your overall c/sGPAs. You could still have a post-bacc or SMP as tools to use. Your MCAT would be a big piece of that application metric still.

Question you should ask yourself is what you really want to do as a career - make sure you understand what those careers look like for real, then figure out how to attain that goal (GPA/MCAT/1000 Clinical Hrs)

Good luck!

This is without a doubt what I want to do. I have over 500 hours of clinical experience through hospice, medical assistant, etc. Really cant see myself doing anything else... I struggled in Biochem but the professor was the worst. Everyone I know that did well in that class and the test banks. I did well in other upper division sciences though. I have tons and tons of shadowing. I'm not trying for Harvard or anything. I'd just like a low-tier MD or even a DO school if that's possible. GPA is around a 3.4 INCLUDING ALL The bad grades and EVERYTHING. (had to make that a point). Just feeling very very discouraged right now....

 

[chemdoctor]

What do you WANT to do?

Do you want a job with many of the same clinical tasks— with far better hours, and more humane training, but likely with less potential for leadership, and probably with less responsibility (for better or for worse depending on your goals)? Only you can answer that question. Some people don’t care at all about the breadth and responsibilites than an MD can provide, and some people would be very dissatisfied by being a PA.

Also, where do you think you went wrong in the biochem class?

I WANT to be a physician. I WANT to be a leader in my field. I've shadowed PA's and the ONLY THING that attracts me to PA is that it's far less stress ( I suffer from anxiety) but I don't want this stupid anxiety to limit my potential.

Biochem was rough because of the professor. I was told by HUNDREDS of students not to take him but I'm hard headed, didnt listen and still took him. I asked students that did well and everyone told me they cheated. I'm not risking my medical career by cheating... They have the test banks, or cheated in other ways. I didnt have the test banks... Kinda unfair but whatever...
My other upperdivisons have been a breeze (genetics of aging, animal science, neuroscience classes, Psychobiology)

I even got an A in Anatomy this semester. But this Biochem professor just destroyed me.

 

[chemdoctor]

It's too early to panic. You should retake the Biochem, and ace it.

I'm hoping so. I'm only a Junior in my second semester. The Biochem was from LAST semester though and I still think I have a rising GPA trend considering I pulled around a 3.9 this semester (or a 3.87). Got an A in anatomy too. Not sure what to do. I don't think it's time to panic yet.

I want to be ap physician. The only thing that pulls me towards PA, is the VAST less amount of stress. But should anxiety limit my potential!? UGH. I'm hoping with a decent MCAT score, some MD's and all DO's should be within reach.

I have over 500 hours of medical assistant, clinical research, etc.

 

[Goro]

I'm hoping so. I'm only a Junior in my second semester. The Biochem was from LAST semester though and I still think I have a rising GPA trend considering I pulled around a 3.9 this semester (or a 3.87). Got an A in anatomy too. Not sure what to do. I don't think it's time to panic yet.

I want to be ap physician. The only thing that pulls me towards PA, is the VAST less amount of stress. But should anxiety limit my potential!? UGH. I'm hoping with a decent MCAT score, some MD's and all DO's should be within reach.

I have over 500 hours of medical assistant, clinical research, etc.

Make the PA vs MD/DO decision in a year.

 

[chemdoctor]

Make the PA vs MD/DO decision in a year.

I mean I'm pretty committed right now... I don't really want to do PA. I just think it's a great opportunity and a great profession. My heart is in Medical school

 

[Woe_is_me23]

Make the PA vs MD/DO decision in a year.

Agreed. I say focus on school. And in the mean time, maybe keep a log of clinical things that make you happy and don’t make you happy. Don’t lump those things into boxes of “doctor” and “PA”, but rather think about them as activities or potential activities that attract you or don’t. Then in a year sit down and consider what’s really pulling you.

 

[chemdoctor]

Agreed. I say focus on school. And in the mean time, maybe keep a log of clinical things that make you happy and don’t make you happy. Don’t lump those things into boxes of “doctor” and “PA”, but rather think about them as activities or potential activities that attract you or don’t. Then in a year sit down and consider what’s really pulling you.

If I decide on MD/DO... would I still be OK with that?

 

[Woe_is_me23]

I mean I'm pretty committed right now... I don't really want to do PA. I just think it's a great opportunity and a great profession. My heart is in Medical school

Well great, sounds like you answered your own question

But i will say that as a junior in undergrad, you have time and you are young. Keep investigating what makes you happy. I think the people with the most compelling reasons to go to med school have often very seriously considered why they SHOULDN’T

 

[Stellaartwa]

Your first order of business needs to be to figure out what in the world you're doing wrong to be getting Ds at this point in your academic career. That's pretty unacceptable and I'm sorry but you can't just blame the professor. I would be far more forgiving if you were a freshman but by junior year, you should have studying and time management down. Biochem isn't conceptually difficult. It requires time and keeping up with it.

Either way, I don't think this D will keep you out of med school. I do think you'll have problems in med school if you don't figure out what's wrong with your study habits though.

As to your desire to pursue a career in medicine, only you can figure out what sacrifies are worth it. No shame in going PA -- make good money in about half the time with half the hours and half the stress.

 

[chemdoctor]

SCIENCE CLASSES
Gen Chem I w/lab: A
Gen Chem II w/lab: A
Physics I and II: A and A-
Calc: A -
Stats: A -
Bio (plants): D+ retook for a B-
Bio (plants lab): C- retook for B+
Organic Chemistry: W to C
Organic Chemistry II: C
Bio (real Bio): B and A in the lab
Neuroscience class: B, and A's. More A's though
Genetics Lab (hard three credit lab): A
Animal science: A
Genetics of Aging: A
Animal science: A
Psychobiology: A
Anatomy: A
Biochem: D

would anyone of you say that this is the transcript of someone who struggles in sciences? @Goro @gonnif @21Rush12 @Woe_is_me23

 

[chemdoctor]

Your first order of business needs to be to figure out what in the world you're doing wrong to be getting Ds at this point in your academic career. That's pretty unacceptable and I'm sorry but you can't just blame the professor. I would be far more forgiving if you were a freshman but by junior year, you should have studying and time management down. Biochem isn't conceptually difficult. It requires time and keeping up with it.

Either way, I don't think this D will keep you out of med school. I do think you'll have problems in med school if you don't figure out what's wrong with your study habits though.

As to your desire to pursue a career in medicine, only you can figure out what sacrifies are worth it. No shame in going PA -- make good money in about half the time with half the hours and half the stress.

That's one of the most important things that keeps me going. My YOUTH HAHA. I mean I know someone who is 31 and took a long route and is in med school right now!

 

[chemdoctor]

Your first order of business needs to be to figure out what in the world you're doing wrong to be getting Ds at this point in your academic career. That's pretty unacceptable and I'm sorry but you can't just blame the professor. I would be far more forgiving if you were a freshman but by junior year, you should have studying and time management down. Biochem isn't conceptually difficult. It requires time and keeping up with it.

Either way, I don't think this D will keep you out of med school. I do think you'll have problems in med school if you don't figure out what's wrong with your study habits though.

As to your desire to pursue a career in medicine, only you can figure out what sacrifies are worth it. No shame in going PA -- make good money in about half the time with half the hours and half the stress.

Agreed. It's unacceptable. and yes. Blaming the professor isn't the right thing to do. You're right. But it happened, so all I can really do is learn from it and try again sadly. I want to pursue a career in medicine. I WANT to be ap physician as I really cant see myself doing anything else! PA is good but I feel like I'm only going that way because of stress...

 

[Woe_is_me23]

SCIENCE CLASSES
Gen Chem I w/lab: A
Gen Chem II w/lab: A
Physics I and II: A and A-
Calc: A -
Stats: A -
Bio (plants): D+ retook for a B-
Bio (plants lab): C- retook for B+
Organic Chemistry: W to C
Organic Chemistry II: C
Bio (real Bio): B and A in the lab
Neuroscience class: B, and A's. More A's though
Genetics Lab (hard three credit lab): A
Animal science: A
Genetics of Aging: A
Animal science: A
Psychobiology: A
Anatomy: A
Biochem: D

would anyone of you say that this is the transcript of someone who struggles in sciences? @Goro @gonnif @21Rush12 @Woe_is_me23

If I were an adcom I would be very concerned about you getting Cs in orgo and a D in biochem. To me, that suggests that when the real tough **** hits the fan you can’t handle it.

That said, as others of have said your dream isn’t sunk. You just need to be ON IT for the rest of your undergrad academics and figure out where your study strategies aren’t cutting it

 

[chemdoctor]

If I were an adcom I would be very concerned about you getting Cs in orgo and a D in biochem. To me, that suggests that when the real tough **** hits the fan you can’t handle it.

That said, as others of have said your dream isn’t sunk. You just need to be ON IT for the rest of your undergrad academics and figure out where your study strategies aren’t cutting it

Yeah :// Really disappointed about it... Very upset. And feeling extremely discouraged

 

[Woe_is_me23]

Yeah :// Really disappointed about it... Very upset. And feeling extremely discouraged

I hear you. I would be too. But the important thing is for you to think about what went wrong and how to bounce back. You have enough great grades in other classes that not all is lost. However, you need to do some things to prove your academic mettle. Namely, as Goro said, retake biochem and ace it. Finish out your undergrad with a near-perfect record. Then slay the MCAT.

 

[chemdoctor]

I hear you. I would be too. But the important thing is for you to think about what went wrong and how to bounce back. You have enough great grades in other classes that not all is lost. However, you need to do some things to prove your academic mettle. Namely, as Goro said, retake biochem and ace it. Finish out your undergrad with a near-perfect record. Then slay the MCAT.

Yeah. Got a long way to go. Sigh. Wish I would’ve done better

 

[Goro]

If I decide on MD/DO... would I still be OK with that?

Only you can answer that.

 

[Goro]

SCIENCE CLASSES
Gen Chem I w/lab: A
Gen Chem II w/lab: A
Physics I and II: A and A-
Calc: A -
Stats: A -
Bio (plants): D+ retook for a B-
Bio (plants lab): C- retook for B+
Organic Chemistry: W to C
Organic Chemistry II: C
Bio (real Bio): B and A in the lab
Neuroscience class: B, and A's. More A's though
Genetics Lab (hard three credit lab): A
Animal science: A
Genetics of Aging: A
Animal science: A
Psychobiology: A
Anatomy: A
Biochem: D

would anyone of you say that this is the transcript of someone who struggles in sciences? @Goro @gonnif @21Rush12 @Woe_is_me23

An undulating GPA trend is worrisome

 

[chemdoctor]

An undulating GPA trend is worrisome

It’s not really undulating is it? I mean it’s still improvement mathematically speaking. Freshman year was still good, sophomore year was not good, junior year is only messed up by Biochem but still better than sophomore but senior year will hopefully be better.

3.78
3.2
3.56
Hopefully something better

 

[chemdoctor]

Only you can answer that.

I meant like... would it be POSSIBLE

 

[Goro]

It’s not really undulating is it? I mean it’s still improvement mathematically speaking. Freshman year was still good, sophomore year was not good, junior year is only messed up by Biochem but still better than sophomore but senior year will hopefully be better.

3.78
3.2
3.56
Hopefully something better

You should not be getting Ds in your JR year

 

[chemdoctor]

You should not be getting Ds in your JR year

Sigh. I know. You’re absolutely right

 

[chemdoctor]

You should not be getting Ds in your JR year

What should I do?

 

[Stellaartwa]

If I were an adcom I would be very concerned about you getting Cs in orgo and a D in biochem. To me, that suggests that when the real tough **** hits the fan you can’t handle it.

I agree. It suggests to me that this student may be smart but poor with time-management (ie: crams for a day or two before the exam instead of studying a little bit every day throughout the module). In med school with the accelerated pace & sheer amount of material, that will become a huge problem.

What should you do? Everyone already told you. Learn to study, get all A's and ace the MCAT. You'll need to be open to applying MD as well as DO now with your academic record. To go MD at this point, with a 3.4-3.59, you'll likely need at least a 510 on your MCAT. 52% of people with those stats got into an MD school.

 

[chemdoctor]

@Stellaartwa yikes. Looks like I’ve got a ways to go. Not feeling good haha

 

[chemdoctor]

@Stellaartwa thanks for being honest with me though. I truly appreciate it. I need it. I’ll definitely work in doing better. If anything, I’m open to DO sxhools and I’ll just do a post-bacc

 

[Goro]

What should I do?

Get As from now on.

 

[chemdoctor]

Get As from now on.

Not even a B is allowed?

 

[Osminog]

Should I go to PA school?

PA school isn't really a good backup. For those matriculating into PA school, the average cGPA is 3.6 and the average sGPA is 3.5. Successful PA applicants are probably academically on par with successful DO applicants, plus you need a very significant amount of healthcare experience to be competitive for PA school.

 

[Goro]

Not even a B is allowed?

1-2 maybe, but really, you need to demonstrate that you can handle med school, which, in your case, is like juggling chainsaws. You can't afford to have one land on your foot.

 

[chemdoctor]

1-2 maybe, but really, you need to demonstrate that you can handle med school, which, in your case, is like juggling chainsaws. You can't afford to have one land on your foot.

Thanks a Goro. I knew from the start that Biochem was gonna be difficult. At least everything else is fine. Phew!

 

[ciestar]

Don’t let yourself continue to be your worst enemy.

 

[toot_poot]

SCIENCE CLASSES
Gen Chem I w/lab: A
Gen Chem II w/lab: A
Physics I and II: A and A-
Calc: A -
Stats: A -
Bio (plants): D+ retook for a B-
Bio (plants lab): C- retook for B+
Organic Chemistry: W to C
Organic Chemistry II: C
Bio (real Bio): B and A in the lab
Neuroscience class: B, and A's. More A's though
Genetics Lab (hard three credit lab): A
Animal science: A
Genetics of Aging: A
Animal science: A
Psychobiology: A
Anatomy: A
Biochem: D

would anyone of you say that this is the transcript of someone who struggles in sciences? @Goro @gonnif @21Rush12 @Woe_is_me23

I would be concerned with how many retakes (these will show up to med schools) you had to have. and chemistry doesnt really seem to your forte. maybe consider acing a SMP (but only if you get your studying in check cause a mediocre SMP experience will tank you).

3.4 wont discredit you from low MD/DO but i'd say to make sure you have the rest of the package (MCAT, ECs, Essays, LORs)

PA school will require a LOT of investment for clinical hours so not exactly a backup plan without the hours

ur down but technically not out good luck!

 

[chemdoctor]

@toot_poot

That’s not true. I love Chemistry...

 

[smukke]

@toot_poot

That’s not true. I love Chemistry...

I love dancing but that doesn't mean I'm good at it

 

[chemdoctor]

I love dancing but that doesn't mean I'm good at it

yeahh... pretty sad I guess... you could be passionate about something but not necessarily be good st it... I mean I’m not bad at chemistry. But my transcript says otherwise unfortunately

 

[GypsyHummus]

I would shadow an optometrist or dentist. Still a leader, still calling the shots, still a doctor but less stress and less school. You can get into OD school with a 3.4 and a decent OAT. Dental might be tougher, but a killer DAT will make up for a lot of shortcomings.

I WANT to be a physician. I WANT to be a leader in my field. I've shadowed PA's and the ONLY THING that attracts me to PA is that it's far less stress ( I suffer from anxiety) but I don't want this stupid anxiety to limit my potential.

Biochem was rough because of the professor. I was told by HUNDREDS of students not to take him but I'm hard headed, didnt listen and still took him. I asked students that did well and everyone told me they cheated. I'm not risking my medical career by cheating... They have the test banks, or cheated in other ways. I didnt have the test banks... Kinda unfair but whatever...
My other upperdivisons have been a breeze (genetics of aging, animal science, neuroscience classes, Psychobiology)

I even got an A in Anatomy this semester. But this Biochem professor just destroyed me.

 

[chemdoctor]

Just an update. Thanks for everyone encouraging me. This past semester, I pulled a 3.9 (one B+ in a sociology class haha) but the other classes were

Upper division 4000 level neuro class
Upper division animal class
Psychobiology
Anatomy I

I also retook Biochem and pulled a 110% on the final exam xD definitely feel comfortable with the material

Also taking microbiology and microbiology lab right now and both are going extremely well. (Got a 98 on the micro lab midterm exam)

I’m keeping at this, working on the MCAT and will be applying to MD/DO schools next year. Thanks again.

 

[TheGoodDoc83]

Is Biochemistry really an absolute requirement for med school entry? I think some med schools require it, others don't. I took Biopharmaceutical Chemistry back in 2004, which is biochem, so that will have to do for me.

 

[chemdoctor]

Is Biochemistry really an absolute requirement for med school entry? I think some med schools require it, others don't. I took Biopharmaceutical Chemistry back in 2004, which is biochem, so that will have to do for me.

Depends on the school. It’s usually a “recommended” class. And it’s very important for the MCAT so most people take it. I needed it for my major, my degree and the MCAT so I took it

 

[Going Incognito]

Some PA schools have a Biochemistry requirement, and some have an Organic Chemistry requirement. There is also Biochem in PA school. I think it is included in their General Medicine requirement block.