How is it fair....

Discover Your Odds of Getting into Medical School
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PurpleLove said:
Right... It's not that I can't handle the workload. I can do the recommended homework and studying and do average, but I don't like average (2.7, no thanks).
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I don't think you're quite getting it. You have to be far above average to get into medical school. Those who were average in under grad simply do not get in. Look at admissions statistics. If you think the people with a lower GPA and MCAT got in based on those alone, you're terribly wrong. They likely had a whole slew of EC's or disadvantages that made up for their lackluster performance. But don't assume that an average undergrad equates to an average medical school. It equates to a terrible one.
 
Boolean said:
I don't think you're quite getting it. You have to be far above average to get into medical school. Those who were average in under grad simply do not get in. Look at admissions statistics. If you think the people with a lower GPA and MCAT got in based on those alone, you're terribly wrong. They likely had a whole slew of EC's or disadvantages that made up for their lackluster performance. But don't assume that an average undergrad equates to an average medical school. It equates to a terrible one.
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Uhmmmmm that's my point. I would be above average at many other schools in my hometown. I was stupid to challenge myself or challenge myself TOO much and I know there will bias against me because 3.2 is above average here, but average at other universities.

I should just take 3 courses elsewhere this summer while working.... My GPA will improve and apparently admissions see all schools equal, maybe they'll think I got super smart really quick.
 
PurpleLove said:
Uhmmmmm that's my point. I would be above average at many other schools in my hometown. I was stupid to challenge myself or challenge myself TOO much and I know there will bias against me.

I should just take 3 courses elsewhere this summer while working.... My GPA will improve and apparently admissions see all schools equal, maybe they'll think I got super smart really quick.
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I do not think you are getting what we are saying. They do not see each school as equal. If you take courses at a CC, they will notice the lesser course rigor. If you take courses at a 2 year, they will notice a lesser rigor. If you take courses at a lesser institution in general, they will notice a lesser course rigor. They already know all the tricks in the book, I can assure you.
 
Boolean said:

I do not think you are getting what we are saying. They do not see each school as equal. If you take courses at a CC, they will notice the lesser course rigor. If you take courses at a 2 year, they will notice a lesser rigor. If you take courses at a lesser institution in general, they will notice a lesser course rigor. They already know all the tricks in the book, I can assure you.
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Sorry, I just read the first line.
They don't know the best trick in the book -> start out at a lesser institution and get a high MCAT with all your free time.
 
This thread has gotten over 300 replies in less than 24 hours. Truly impressive.
OP, if you want to know what 'unfair' is - ask anyone of the families affected either by 9/11 or the missing Malaysia Airlines flight.
 
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bakedbeans18 said:
This thread has gotten over 300 replies in less than 24 hours. Truly impressive.
OP, if you want to know what 'unfair' is - ask anyone of the families affected either by 9/11 or the missing Malaysia Airlines flight.
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Is it still missing? I thought they had made some revelations? Anything substantial?
 
terp720 said:
wait, do you and @HopelessGirl go to school together? Maybe you guys should help each other out. You both seem to have similar issues, so maybe forming a little study group could keep you motivated
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On the contrary. Study groups require studying. Now a group lobbying for GPA improvements, that's a possibility.
 
PurpleLove said:
Thank you, but you're the only person that really admitted to there being an advantage.
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I've heard students say that because they're paying the school tuition, they should be getting good grades and good careers. Not the case. You're paying the school for the opportunity and support to work towards these goals and earn them yourself. Going to a top school gives you the opportunity to gain an advantage (aside from all of the experiential advantages that have already been mentioned here). In my opinion, doing well at a top or known rigorous school >> doing well at any other school, and in this scenario, you would definitely have an advantage. Where it gets murky is when you compare doing badly or average at a top school to doing well at any other school.
 
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terp720 said:
wait, do you and @HopelessGirl go to school together? Maybe you guys should help each other out. You both seem to have similar issues, so maybe forming a little study group could keep you motivated
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Where does she go to school?

No amount of studying can improve test taking skills and natural intelligence.
 
Boolean said:
Is it still missing? I thought they had made some revelations? Anything substantial?
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Nope. Now CNN is really dissecting this and just killing the story. "Well, there were Li ION batteries in the cargo - could they have spontaneously sparked a fire and filled the plane with smoke, incapacitating the pilots before they could transmit a coherent 'mayday'??" YOU HAVE GOT TO BE FREAKING KIDDING ME.

I'm no expert, but I think what we have on our hands here is a phenomenon identical to what has happened for almost a century in the Bermuda Triangle. It is very sad that it had to claim the lives of 230 people, as opposed to a handful of pilots or some an oyster vessel, etc.
 
PurpleLove said:
Where does she go to school?

No amount of studying can improve test taking skills and natural intelligence.
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Chicago, according to what she said in her thread...

and I question whether you are really studying that well. I mean you stayed up until 3 am consistently in high school, and you study all the time now. This leads me to believe your study habits are not that effective.
 
terp720 said:
Chicago, according to what she said in her thread...

and I question whether you are really studying that well. I mean you stayed up until 3 am consistently in high school, and you study all the time now. This leads me to believe your study habits are not that effective.
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Probably as far as wasting time/not being efficient. But if I do every problem in the book, twice, it should be enough.
 
PurpleLove said:
Probably as far as wasting time/not being efficient. But if I do every problem in the book, twice, it should be enough.
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Inaccurate.

You can read through every practice problem, the the point of "ah yes, I remember the results said the answer choice is E and this equation was used to get that answer choice" but if you don't understand WHY answers A-D were incorrect or the rationale for using the equation shown that gave answer choice E, you haven't learned anything at all. Just because you are doing every problem in the book, doesn't necessarily mean you aren't just going through the motions, so to speak.
 
bakedbeans18 said:
Inaccurate.

You can read through every practice problem, the the point of "ah yes, I remember the results said the answer choice is E and this equation was used to get that answer choice" but if you don't understand WHY answers A-D were incorrect or the rationale for using the equation shown that gave answer choice E, you haven't learned anything at all. Just because you are doing every problem in the book, doesn't necessarily mean you aren't just going through the motions, so to speak.
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Huh?
I remember the answer from where?

You do the Orgo/Chem problems and hope you get the right answer. Maybe the second time around it's not as efficient as I could remember the answers.
 
PurpleLove said:
Huh?
I remember the answer from where?

You do the Orgo/Chem problems and hope you get the right answer. Maybe the second time around it's not as efficient as I could remember the answers.
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Being a successful medical student means more than memorizing answers. It is using the knowledge you gain from completing problems and applying it to the situation at hand.
 
Boolean said:
Being a successful medical student means more than memorizing answers. It is using the knowledge you gain from completing problems and applying it to the situation at hand.
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UHM that's WHAT I DO. You're assuming I do something based on what someone else said. I do the problems, all of them. Then I check my answers. THEN I check solutions if I can't get it right the second time.
 
PurpleLove said:
Huh?
I remember the answer from where?

You do the Orgo/Chem problems and hope you get the right answer. Maybe the second time around it's not as efficient as I could remember the answers.
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Yeah i think the second time around is the one that's not really doing you any good..
Why don't you look into outside materials not provided by your class. There are tons of materials out there to help with these classes.
 
Also, our problems vs the one liners from other school's gen chem problems: "What is the volume of the balloon if 8 moles of gas is added"? vs ours. Makes me cry. I need to stop thinking about this.
 
terp720 said:
Yeah i think the second time around is the one that's not really doing you any good..
Why don't you look into outside materials not provided by your class. There are tons of materials out there to help with these classes.
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Very true! I wish I discovered other ivy's websites before I took these classes. But it's not the material I struggle with, it's the exams.
 
PurpleLove said:
Also, our problems vs the one liners from other school's gen chem problems: "What is the volume of the balloon if 8 moles of gas is added"? vs ours. Makes me cry. I need to stop thinking about this.
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I really wish you would post an example question from your experiences in general chemistry. Somehow I doubt most of SDN would be too impressed by the level of difficulty you are encountering...but I am seriously asking you to prove us wrong
 
Instead of wasting time here complaining why don't you go study?
 
terp720 said:
I asked... it's spring break
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Spring Break is the best time to study, imo. We have exams directly afterwards, and everyone who studies over Spring Break does fairly well on them (typically the third or fourth exam of the semester)
 
PurpleLove said:
Huh?
I remember the answer from where?

You do the Orgo/Chem problems and hope you get the right answer. Maybe the second time around it's not as efficient as I could remember the answers.
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If you truly understand the material, you don't merely hope you get the right answer. By the time you solve it you should more or less know you have the correct answer (save for careless mistakes here and there). I know that's how I felt when I actually understood the material.

Also, textbook questions are no where near the level of understanding you need for your exams. The textbook problems were a joke compared to the exams we were given. Your school should have resources (problem sessions, office/TA hours, etc) you can use to get beyond that level.
 
Boolean said:
Spring Break is the best time to study, imo. We have exams directly afterwards, and everyone who studies over Spring Break does fairly well on them (typically the third or fourth exam of the semester)
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Lucca said:
He should be studying anyway. I actually took a break from work this spring break and ended up being super behind for 3 days.
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I was under the impression that she/he? is on the quarter system and therefore already finished classes.
 
Lucca said:
Oooooh ok. I don't know I find most of his posts unreadable.
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idk maybe i'm just making assumptions. TBH i'm getting all these threads about struggling at top schools/transferring/it being harder than other schools confused.
 
terp720 said:
idk maybe i'm just making assumptions. TBH i'm getting all these threads about struggling at top schools/transferring/it being harder than other schools confused.
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We should just create a definitive, hard-line SDN criteria for being able to whine on the forums.


1. EECS + Physics at CalTech -- can whine.

2 everyone else -- shut up
 
PurpleLove said:
Very true! I wish I discovered other ivy's websites before I took these classes. But it's not the material I struggle with, it's the exams.
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If you know the material well enough you should be doing well on tests. Just worry about your situation, not everyone else's.
 
jeghaber said:
If you truly understand the material, you don't merely hope you get the right answer. By the time you solve it you should more or less know you have the correct answer (save for careless mistakes here and there). I know that's how I felt when I actually understood the material.

Also, textbook questions are no where near the level of understanding you need for your exams. The textbook problems were a joke compared to the exams we were given. Your school should have resources (problem sessions, office/TA hours, etc) you can use to get beyond that level.
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Okay, sorry that's what I meant by "hope", as in not having stupid mistakes.
 
PurpleLove said:
I understand, still a bit unfair but oh well. My friend receieved all As at a CC, transfered here and had to retake the science ones for credit,.she got all C-s but whatever I'll just go into research.
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PurpleLove said:
Can someone please explain to me how this is fair:

I, and many premeds, find it difficult to get good grades in classes. Whatever, challenge accepted.

But what about schools that make it ridiculously easy to get As. Isn't this setting the person up for failure?
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I can see some frustration, but also keep in mind that adcoms will recognize a pattern of grade inflation and the MCAT will be more important for them. And the chances are that if a school is handing out A grades like candy and not challenging students who are doing the bare minimum to receive an "A," then the MCAT will come back to bite them. And if the students do pull off a good MCAT, then they must have learned something and put in some effort into the material. Think of a more rigorous undergraduate institution as a blessing in disguise. I went to a relatively high ranked (top 25) undergraduate school, and my exams were tougher than those for students in surrounding universities (based on actually having friends and seeing the exams/grade distributions). With that said, I am glad that I went to the school that I did. I learned so much more than I would had I gone elsewhere.

Edited: And with regards to the first comment, there were a number of students who transferred to my school from other decent undergraduate schools and many of them went from 3.9-4.0 students to below 3.3 GPAs.
 
terp720 said:
Hey @PurpleLove :
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/lets-bash-johns-hopkins-ug.902247

Read the first post.

You're not the first person to feel like this.
But you haven't ruined your chances.
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LOL wow that thread got hate too. "OMG my state school curves to a C too". NO ****, but it's easier to be top. Okay, I understand coming here for answers was a mistake.

When the average accepted is a 24 ACT/3.3 GPA with no APs, of course you'll do great when compared to an average 34 ACT/3.9 GPA pool.
 
PurpleLove said:
LOL wow that thread got hate too. "OMG my state school curves to a C too". NO ****, but it's easier to be top. Okay, I understand comming here for answers was a mistake.
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Well, it's just we can't give you the answer you want. Plenty of people recognize that there is a difference in rigor at different institutions and mentioned the MCAT. But we can't really do anything to remedy your situation. If you want advice on how to improve.. ask that.
 
knv2u said:
I can see some frustration, but also keep in mind that adcoms will recognize a pattern of grade inflation and the MCAT will be more important for them. And the chances are that if a school is handing out A grades like candy and not challenging students who are doing the bare minimum to receive an "A," then the MCAT will come back to bite them. And if the students do pull off a good MCAT, then they must have learned something and put in some effort into the material. Think of a more rigorous undergraduate institution as a blessing in disguise. I went to a relatively high ranked (top 25) undergraduate school, and my exams were tougher than those for students in surrounding universities (based on actually having friends and seeing the exams/grade distributions). With that said, I am glad that I went to the school that I did. I learned so much more than I would had I gone elsewhere.

Edited: And with regards to the first comment, there were a number of students who transferred to my school from other decent undergraduate schools and many of them went from 3.9-4.0 students to below 3.3 GPAs.
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I can't be grateful. I mean sometimes I am, but the amount of frustration, depression, and time lost is not worth it in the end. College years should be the best time of your life.
 
PurpleLove said:
I can't be grateful. I mean sometimes I am, but the amount of frustration, depression, and time lost is not worth it in the end. College years should be the best time of your life.
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So quit. It's as simple as that. If you're going into medicine, you're going to have to learn to make sacrifices. If you can't make these, don't kid yourself thinking you can avoid doing so.
 
Also, seriously how is it fair to not know where you stand in a class, ever?
I mean sure, professor might tell you the average (C/B-) on an exam, but unless you know everyone's score, standard deviations, take into account the students who dropped, and the professor actually tells you his policy, you're going to get a surprise when grades come around.
 
Boolean said:
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So quit. It's as simple as that. If you're going into medicine, you're going to have to learn to make sacrifices. If you can't make these, don't kid yourself thinking you can avoid doing so.
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I have made these. But I'm a pathetic 20 year old that never has fun while many smart premed students too. <- Not bashing intelligence here, bashing my school's rigor.
 
Boolean said:
Spring Break is the best time to study, imo. We have exams directly afterwards, and everyone who studies over Spring Break does fairly well on them (typically the third or fourth exam of the semester)
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Aw man, my school always gave exams before Spring Break, which blew.
we did get 2 weeks off, though...
PurpleLove said:
Also, seriously how is it fair to not know where you stand in a class, ever?
I mean sure, professor might tell you the average (C/B-) on an exam, but unless you know everyone's score, standard deviations, take into account the students who dropped, and the professor actually tells you his policy, you're going to get a surprise when grades come around.
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Yeah, my profs never once discussed these things. Then again, no one cared. We did this thing where we wanted to learn the material, and yeah, the grades were important, but not enough for the kind of **** you're pulling. If I had been in school with people like you, they wouldn't have let us take our closed-book exams take-home, which would have made exam week that much worse (though admittedly, the questions would have had to be easier; 2hr exams were always a cakewalk compared to the 8hr or 24hr ones).
 
PurpleLove said:
Also, seriously how is it fair to not know where you stand in a class, ever?
I mean sure, professor might tell you the average (C/B-) on an exam, but unless you know everyone's score, standard deviations, take into account the students who dropped, and the professor actually tells you his policy, you're going to get a surprise when grades come around.
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Of all of your complaints, I think this is the weakest one. That isn't because your school is hard, that's just kind of typical for a lot of places depending on how your professor grades. But what does it matter where you stand. If you're in the top 5%, are you going to stop working as hard? If you know you're in the range for an A, are you going to do the bare minimum to keep your grade?
 
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