how many rounds should i apply before i call it quits

[szhao]

Thread Closing.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Schaden Freud]

You're interviewing at Yale and you worry about not getting in at all?

By the way, you can have an actual job and apply to med school. Many of us do.

this might sound really stupid and trollish, but it is NOT. I was just wondering how many cycles should I apply to med school before I:
1. get an actual job (ie. not an internship, fellowship, etc)
2. go to grad school.
it doesn't seem like getting into a med school is really likely, and I feel there is a time where I have to call it quits and pursue something as my yale interviewer said: "use what your given and pursue the career that will give you the most success". In this respect, I am still willing to apply for like 2 or 3 more cycles but was wondering if anyone had a different opinion on the number.

 

[JohnMadden]

Have you considered applying MD only and then applying to the MSTP after the first year?

 

[patrickd223]

That is some impressive clinical work with your mom. lol. get some clinical experience and you are a shoe in.

 

[punkindrublic]

You may also want to do something clinical.

 

[TCIrish03]

There's no easy answer. Have your applications changed much year to year? Remember, you have to sell yourself. Maybe change up your style on your AMCAS a bit, or tweak/completely rewrite your PS. What are your weaknesses? Identify them (via an unbiased source) and do what you can to address them. As an anecdote: my application this year didn't change much from the previous year, but after AMCAS was submitted, a bunch of good things started rolling in. Unfortunately, I had to send schools gradual updates which they weren't able to see all at once (and a decision may have already been made at that point), or like some schools like Tulane, they don't accept post AMCAS/Secondary information.

You can apply to grad school and med school simultaneously, as well as holding a "real" job. I'm doing that right now, and so are alot of posters.

Edit: after looking at your profile, chill out, and do some clinical stuff. You are 21 and have plenty of time yet. No sense in ebing neurotic now

 

[future_dr_house]

this might sound really stupid and trollish, but it is NOT. I was just wondering how many cycles should I apply to med school before I:
1. get an actual job (ie. not an internship, fellowship, etc)
2. go to grad school.
it doesn't seem like getting into a med school is really likely, and I feel there is a time where I have to call it quits and pursue something as my yale interviewer said: "use what your given and pursue the career that will give you the most success". In this respect, I am still willing to apply for like 2 or 3 more cycles but was wondering if anyone had a different opinion on the number.

if you interviewed at yale, why does your mdapps not reflect that?

 

[Wanna_B_Scutty]

Yup, like the others have said, do some serious clinical stuff.

Right now, anyone who reads your appy is going to believe that you have what it takes to do the PhD and the basic sciences years of the MD. Its the clinical and residency portions of the MD that they're gonna worry about.

 

[SurgeonUFO]

I'm pretty certain that I will be eventually getting in somewhere. Looking at your mdapps makes me think this is just a cry for attention. You have an amazing GPA and an amazing MCAT. The only thing missing is the clinical experience, and that's not exactly difficult to get.

Either that or you're some sort of crazy gunner trying to make those of us with a lower GPA **** ourselves and withdraw our apps?

 

[Daydreamer2008]

oh for GOD's sake! I have a lower gpa and mcat than u do, and all I keep telling myself is that I won't stop trying b/c this is my dream. Just don't doubt yourself, you are an awesome applicant. Doubting yourself might even show up in an interview; other people can easily catch these things. And who wants a self-doubting physician?? I sure don't.

 

[notdeadyet]

By the way, you can have an actual job and apply to med school. Many of us do.

Agreed. And are much better applicants because of it...

Beef up your clinical, szhao...

 

[szhao]

if you interviewed at yale, why does your mdapps not reflect that?

i don't update nor visit SDN much anymore, i got real problems to worry about now. dwelling on this year is not going to do anything for me next year.

o yea by the way the clinical is in progress, haha if i learned anything from this whole process is clinical = more important than anything else.

 

[DrVanNostran]

I will be quiting after my 4th or 5th round. Really depends on how much emotional stamina you have.

 

[armybound]

just work on your shortcomings, it shouldn't take many retries.

 

[gsmithers68]

You had an interview at Yale...

This cute little doll doesn't look trollish, but IT IS.

 

[Law2Doc]

this might sound really stupid and trollish, but it is NOT. I was just wondering how many cycles should I apply to med school before I:
1. get an actual job (ie. not an internship, fellowship, etc)
2. go to grad school.
it doesn't seem like getting into a med school is really likely, and I feel there is a time where I have to call it quits and pursue something as my yale interviewer said: "use what your given and pursue the career that will give you the most success". In this respect, I am still willing to apply for like 2 or 3 more cycles but was wondering if anyone had a different opinion on the number.

There is no magic number. But there is also no rule that says you are best served applying in consecutive cycles (unless your MCAT score is close to expiring). Rather than keeping on throwing the same app against a wall and hoping it will stick, you should probably spend the time to get all your ducks lined up before you pull the trigger again. Thus if you don't ultimately get in somewhere this year, maybe it's worth spending a full year doing some clinical job or otherwise enhancing your app (looks to be a non-numerical thing, if you are for real), improving your PS, getting some additional LORs, and honing your interview skills, not to mention earning a few bucks. Just a thought.

 

[rickthetwinkie]

You had an interview at Yale...

This cute little doll doesn't look trollish, but IT IS.

1. He's applying MSTP. Much harder road and less likelihood for success.

2. He's been around SDN for a while, and hasn't done anything remotely trollish, at least not to my knowledge.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

I'm still confused about the Yale thing. So you interviewed there and then withdrew your app? That makes me thing this whole not getting in thing is just a self-fulfilling prophecy. I've got to admit, too, that I've been perpetually puzzled by your complete pessimism about this process. From what I recall, you decided you weren't going to get in before you even applied in spite of your high MCAT and gpa. I read on your mdapp thing your denial of being negative, but I don't buy it. From my recollection, your negativity about your chances predated your rejections.

If you've got some mood/life whatever issues you need to work on, maybe you should take care of that before reapplying instead of throwing another app out there that you think's doomed to fail.

Anyway, about your original question, I'm with some of the others that you shouldn't put your life on hold. Try to get a real job and apply from there. You've got to live your life in spite of all this applying business.

 

[karmega5]

I remember at least one school saying on its website or app that second applications are encouraged, third applications are discouraged. I would say a lot depends on your life, finances, and situation, but also talk to the schools. I know a lot will meet with you if you're rejected and tell you what to do. Several people (adcoms, deans) have told me that if you follow their advice closely, and show them your dedication, you greatly increase your chances for the next cycle.
Personally, I plan on worst case for me as applying for three years, taking some time to work while doing it, and if those three years don't work, then waiting maybe four or five to get settled, have a career, maybe some kids, and then trying again. We'll see if my poor little heart can handle that, but hopefully none of us will be in that situation!

 

[Stolenspatulas]

apply straight MD and switch over....

or broaden your MSTP horizons and apply to less reputable programs (if there is such a thing for MSTP)

and GET SOME CLINICAL!

I personally would try max 3 times total.

 

[byong_soo]

2

 

[szhao]

text

i had to make a choice, accept a job or not and honestly, i think doing some clinical would be good for myself anyways so i decided to take a year off. i don't need you to buy anything, so its okay if you don't buy it, i can careless. you know, most of what i say on SDN are fairly sarcastic, it isn't meant to be accepted "as is", but if you don't that is okay with me hehe. like i said i can careless.

haha yea throwing the same app is not going to work, so i will heed the general advice, thanks for the advice.

for the troll person, haha whatever, like i said it doesn't matter if you think this is trollish, but if it is your only feeding the troll *yummy*.

 

[Moniker]

in support of the "apply regular M.D." touters - some schools will take applications into the md/phd program after you're enrolled as a regular MD student. i mean you can apply to join up after ~M2 year.

 

[Krisss17]

I know you are probably feeling down because your lack of response despite your good stats (although the L is questionable), you need to be careful about the negativity. It really came across in your profile, and if you let one-tenth of that through on your interviews, it is going to go against you.

 

[Anjlprincezz]

As many rounds as your heart/ego can stand... or before you get too pessimistic and cynical...

 

[gary5]

I'd apply twice. I know several people who were accepted on the second time around. Accepted on the third is rare, I assume.

 

[szhao]

Been a bunch of years since I went through the application process, but on first glance at the profile, I wondered if maybe it was too heavily-weighted towards the more competitive schools? Any premeds (who undoubtedly know a bunch more about this than me) have the same impression, or am I just dreaming?

no ur not dreaming, haha, honestly that was a bad on my part and i might try to get a phd first instead, comparatively that would be the easier thing to do and transfer in. whatever thanks for the advice guys hehe. time to close the thread.

 

[atomi]

i had to make a choice, accept a job or not and honestly, i think doing some clinical would be good for myself anyways so i decided to take a year off. i don't need you to buy anything, so its okay if you don't buy it, i can careless. you know, most of what i say on SDN are fairly sarcastic, it isn't meant to be accepted "as is", but if you don't that is okay with me hehe. like i said i can careless.

haha yea throwing the same app is not going to work, so i will heed the general advice, thanks for the advice.

for the troll person, haha whatever, like i said it doesn't matter if you think this is trollish, but if it is your only feeding the troll *yummy*.

This post explains why you didn't get in. I have seen better ramblings on a middle school chat board. Get a job and show that you can handle responsibility. 'Taking a year off' will just make things much worse for you next time.

 

[eekonomics]

Thread Closing.

Why did you turn down any interviews if you're worried about not getting in?

 

[Dr.Watson]

Why did you turn down any interviews if you're worried about not getting in?

Getting an interview for MSTP is a HUGE step. I'm not sure why you withdrew/turned down good schools. Most places you have around a 50% shot post-interview of getting in, and I know a lot of people that end up with a huge number of acceptances post-interviews. Also, check out the MD/PhD board. Going to grad school and then trying to transfering into MSTP is just about the worse way to go about things - better off doing the degrees separately.

Edit - okay looking at your MD apps. First, you clearly need clinical experience. Second, how early did you apply? Rejections from a lot of places started way earlier than January and some places haven't rejected at all yet - I'm confused. Most interview invites happen Oct-Dec for MSTP with a few places starting in Jan. Early application is way important. Third, apply broadly and an MD-only acceptance should be your worst-case scenario at the end of the cycle (your #s are definitely good enough for an MD acceptance somewhere). Fourth, I've run into a one or two people on each interview (out of 6-10) wanting to do engineering or biomedical informatics. Schools are definitely looking for those sort of MSTPs. Your 'doomed-to-failure' attitude there is unjustified. But do look for schools with ties to/current students doing engineering-related PhDs.

 

[szhao]

waiting would have been risky, when i already hold a few rejections from MD. I would like to think of everything as random probability, but CLEARLY it isn't. like is aid get a job is fine with me. also until most people not going to med school is not the end of me, not becoming a doctor is not the end of me. i already said i would be willing to accept MD only, but seeing patients everyday is not MY dream, so there is no reason why i should apply to them alone when your considered for MD admissions anyways.

for the LAST TIME i agree i need clinical and thank you to everyone who suggested it, but can we stop repeating that? also, MD/PhD is not a 50% acceptance rate for those who think it is or is at their school let me give you a few examples:

Dartmouth is approximately 1/3
UCI is approximately 1/6
URMC is approximately 1/6

Brown is about 1/2 so there is some truth to it.

and for those people insulting me on my MDapp and you wonder why i am negative when responding? sigh!

o yea who would use the phrase doom to failure to refer to himself???? if you read in context everything else i post on my MDapp, such as most of the other comments, maybe you would realize it is just being sarcastic, who wouldn't want to get into every school?, who wouldn't want to get into a school? who start out thinking they are going to get rejected? maybe i am just too naive (no this does not beg a comment).

 

[Dr.Watson]

also, MD/PhD is not a 50% acceptance rate for those who think it is or is at their school

I said post-interview, your odds are good - around 50% at a lot of schools - granted this includes offers to the waitlist. That figure was quoted to me at many places I interviewed. Maybe it's not true where you were, but really my point is that getting the interview is hardest part IMHO.

Sarcastic, sure, in your MDApps descriptors, but I was responding to the sentiment that you wouldn't be a great candidate because you're not bio/chem. I was just pointing out that the MSTP gods aren't against you for a bioinformatics/engineering research bent.

Also, you never responded to the when did you apply question. And if you want good MSTP advice, go to the MD/PhD subforum.

 

[szhao]

those are post interview numbers, i asked the staff directly. and yea i applied late, again MY FAULT and i made some mistakes this cycle, which i am more than willing to admit to. lol, thanks again, i wasn't trying to hound you on those numbers, but just giving out the numbers i get. i am curious why you think getting degrees separately would be better, but i will send you a pm asking. thanks

 

[Doctor Bagel]

So after reading more of your saga and posts, I'm getting the hunch that you're not really that into going to med school next year. You assumed you'd fail for whatever reason, and I think you're happy with that. With this attitude (and no, it's not a bad attitude to have necessarily), don't reapply next year. If you'd rather have a cool job, live in a neat city, hang out with friends and whatever else you've said in justifying withdrawing from schools, more power to you. However, that means you're probably not that committed to jumping into med school. My advice, get a real job in a cool city, hang out with friends, and work for a few years. If you decide later that you really want to go to med school, reapply. I can't see you immediately reapplying for next year resulting in anything positive.

 

[nycfella]

Say it ain't so szhao, just say it aint so!...

 

[szhao]

honestly, what i realized in life up to now, it doesn't matter what job you have. and i am dedicated to everything i set out to do and would enjoy doing it, and utilize what i learn to do something useful for the next step. but you know, as for me going to med school and residency is not the end of my road, there are other things i want to do. i spoke to a few people at the end of their careers and chatted with interviewers (i stress chatted haha not the best thing to do) on what they felt about their life and career. the bottom line that i think i have reached a conclusion about is: be happy where you are, be happy doing what your doing, the medical education is same everywhere, its important to advance your career, but don't advance a career when you would hate for 5 to enjoy for 2. and i realize i am young, if i wasn't 22 i would be more careful in going to med school, but i am 22, killing off 4 years of my life going to somewhere my life would be good and would obtain the life experience i desire is what i feel i should do. i would trade an medical school acceptance for that anyday (this is a zero risk trade). you might disagree with this, but that is just fine, everyone reach different conclusions from what they want in life. this is not to say i don't want to get into a medical school, because if this keeps happening 22 will turn into 32, which then i need to be more careful.

 

[NervousNed]

From the schools you applied to, it seems you have considerable hubris. All the schools in that list are tough and hard to get into. Why didnt you apply to schools that are easier to get into? There are plenty of schools in good locations.

 

[YupGypsy]

there are tons of ways to make $$$

 

[rickthetwinkie]

From the schools you applied to, it seems you have considerable hubris. All the schools in that list are tough and hard to get into. Why didnt you apply to schools that are easier to get into? There are plenty of schools in good locations.

We're talking MSTP programs. While he did apply to a great share of "elite" programs, other MSTP programs aren't necessarily that much easier to get into.

 

[szhao]

From the schools you applied to, it seems you have considerable hubris. All the schools in that list are tough and hard to get into. Why didnt you apply to schools that are easier to get into? There are plenty of schools in good locations.

lol there is a difference between having any pride at all and being a hubris:

In old:
"In Ancient Greek hubris referred to actions taken in order to shame the victim, thereby making oneself seem superior."

who am i shaming..., well i guess people are shaming me but that is cool.

In new:
"In its modern usage, hubris denotes overconfident pride and arrogance; it is often associated with a lack of knowledge, interest in, and exploration of history, combined with a lack of humility."

there is a difference between not having any pride and being arrogant. Lack of knowledge in what? its true i don't like history much haha, but whatever. all in all, i think this term is uncalled for.

HOWEVER, you make a good point and i will be more careful with my choice next year, though i was plenty careful on the programs i applied to from safeties in terms of their program not being very strong to very strong programs in what they are doing. however, i guess the name/rank factor is what affect most people's decision to apply and i should wait my choices accordingly.

Source

there are tons of ways to make $$$

just curious what is this refering to? can i make money in some other career? most certainly but can i make money being satisfied doing what i am doing, that is questionable. if i was to think about this in furthering my strength and making money, medicine would be one of the last thing i choose to do.

 

[MadHopsMD]

i say a minimum 7 times. because there are 7 dwarfs. no other reason.

 

[physicsnerd42]

Szhao,

I'm a first year MD/PhD student at Dartmouth, and I think I met you (but since I've had lunch and/or dinner with probably 30 or 40 of the applicants this year I can't say for sure), but I would say not to give up. Looking over your stats, it looks as if you have plenty of great academic credentials, but you're pretty short on the medical volunteer stuff. Granted, it matters less for MD/PhD applicants, but since the point of a MD/PhD program is to produce physician-scientists, the admissions committees want to know that you've at least seen what it means to be a clinician and to work with patients. Also, it's possible that it's just some X-factor that caused you not to get in. I can only speak for what I've heard from people at the MD/PhD program at Dartmouth, but I know that they only interview people who they think are academically qualified to become physician-scientists and who look good on paper. The reasons people get rejected are for reasons that typically aren't academically-related (maybe they think your personality isn't the best fit for the particular program, or some of your answers to interview questions led them to believe that you didn't have the right motivations for doing the dual degree, or maybe it was just the clinical experience thing). What I would suggest is contacting the MD/PhD/MSTP office at some schools you interviewed at to see why you didn't get in (contact Ann Coady or Dr. Brinckerhoff here). The worst that will happen is that they won't tell you anything, but maybe they'll give you some insight into what you could improve on for a more successful application next time around.

The MD/PhD isn't for everyone, but if you decide that being a physician-scientist is what you really want and that the MD/PhD is the way you want to go to get there, then I wouldn't give up based on just one failed attempt. See what you can do to improve your application (definitely the clinical experience factor), work on that, and apply again. Good luck! If you have any questions, let me know.

 

[Cirrus83]

I know this is an old thread but I guess I haven't seen szhao post in a while...
Umm...why did you turn down the Yale and Ohio State interviews?

And as far as being tired about other people saying you're negative, I don't think being sarcastic is the issue so much as perhaps lacking some confidence when interviewing.

I don't know about the informatics thing, but to be honest I'm not entirely sure there really will be too many MD/PhDs who get in because they want to do informatics research (and I've worked in informatics, including with a guy who was both an MD and had just done a fellowship in informatics at Harvard, but he got both separately).

Anyways, guess you probably didn't get in this year? Well, either way, best of luck.

 

[bigman43]

dude you are a guy and you type *sniffles* and *cuddles* and talk about your puppy.

its definintely not your resume, its your personality. take the *sniffles*, shove it up yours, hit the weight room, and get a suit (not a dress) and do the interview like a man.

 

[Robizzle]

dude you are a guy and you type *sniffles* and *cuddles* and talk about your puppy.

its definintely not your resume, its your personality. take the *sniffles*, shove it up yours, hit the weight room, and get a suit (not a dress) and do the interview like a man.

Freakin awesome.

 

[bigman43]

haha robizzle you made my day.

 

[durfen]

Hey, szhao's negativity actually helped me out. The guy has better stats and ECs than I do except I had a higher verbal score and maybe more research. I am also and engineer, but I don't have 3 majors . Seeing his negativity about his own situation helped me stay positive about my own until the acceptances started rolling in pretty late in the cycle.
I got into 5 programs, including 3 top 10s, which incidentally were also my top 3 choices from the beginning.

Szhao is a perfect example of how negativity kills. To be so accomplished, yet fail. Szhao's interviewing style is suspect. Turning down a Yale interview? Where are his parents on this?

 

[bigman43]

word. he reminds me of gollum. prob sits there looking at his dog going "my precious..."

 

[Mastac741]

how many rounds should i apply before i call it quits .

Well, Lets see...one...two..(Crunch)...three.

Three.

 

[physicsnerd42]

Hey, szhao's negativity actually helped me out... Seeing his negativity about his own situation helped me stay positive about my own until the acceptances started rolling in pretty late in the cycle....
Szhao's interviewing style is suspect. Turning down a Yale interview? Where are his parents on this?

Okay, I know that you're not trying to be callous and that you're trying tell applicants to keep positive, but

word. he reminds me of gollum. prob sits there looking at his dog going "my precious..."

it's time for people to stop beating up on szhao. The application/interview/acceptance process is sometimes random (exhibit 1: how did I get interviews at Duke and Yale but not places like Northwestern, U Chicago, etc.)? Sometimes people just get unlucky or sometimes schools are looking for something slightly different than what you have to offer (even if you're the "perfect" applicant). Szhao's probably feeling crappy enough about how this app cycle turned out without you guys insulting him. Seriously, just let this thread die and please stop ridiculing applicants whom you have never met when all they're asking for a little bit of help, encouragement, and perspective. You made a valid point about staying positive, durfen, but you should leave it there. Bigman, all I can say is that you should perhaps consider only writing things online that you'd be willing to say to the person's face.