Navy HPSP payback after military FM residency question

[specterholmes]

Hello. I was recently accepted into medical school. I plan to do the navy HPSP but I am confused about the total payback years. My current plan after medical school is do a military family medicine residency. My recruiter told me that my payback time will be 5 years total after residency (4 years for medical school and 1 year for the internship year of the FM residency he said).
I am confused because everything I read online says that my payback time would be 4 years total after the FM residency.
I showed him the information I found online and he says it is wrong. He said that I will owe 5 years total if I go to a military family medicine residency after medical school.
Can someone help clarify this because I am confused with the conflicting information I have been receiving?

Edit: Can someone send me the course of this information as well?

Edit 2: My recruiter recently sent me this message. I do not really understand what he means.:
"I just spoke to my master chief who stated if you do a 3 yr military residency and 1 yr is neutral year you owe 1 year after and then you would owe for hpsp time which is total of 5 years.
If it’s a 2 year residency then you wouldn’t owe anything after neutral year if it’s military residency...if it’s 3 year...first year is neutral year...then you start payback of 3 yrs but only have 2 yrs left in residency so you would owe 1 more year."

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[Ridge_Runner]

It's 1:1 for medical school. Navy is notorious for folks having to do a GMO tour after internship, but ultimately you would owe the Navy 4 years after intern year if made to do a GMO tour or 4 years after residency if selected straight through FM.

 

[MTGas2B]

HPSP obligation section

https://www.med.navy.mil/Accessions/Pages/Career-and-Medical-Corps-Internship-Selection.aspx


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[backrow]

Hello. I was recently accepted into medical school. I plan to do the navy HPSP but I am confused about the total payback years. My current plan after medical school is do a military family medicine residency. My recruiter told me that my payback time will be 5 years total after residency (4 years for medical school and 1 year for the internship year of the FM residency he said).
I am confused because everything I read online says that my payback time would be 4 years total after the FM residency.
I showed him the information I found online and he says it is wrong. He said that I will owe 5 years total if I go to a military family medicine residency after medical school.
Can someone help clarify this because I am confused with the conflicting information I have been receiving?

Edit: Can someone send me the course of this information as well?

Edit 2: My recruiter recently sent me this message. I do not really understand what he means.:
"I just spoke to my master chief who stated if you do a 3 yr military residency and 1 yr is neutral year you owe 1 year after and then you would owe for hpsp time which is total of 5 years.
If it’s a 2 year residency then you wouldn’t owe anything after neutral year if it’s military residency...if it’s 3 year...first year is neutral year...then you start payback of 3 yrs but only have 2 yrs left in residency so you would owe 1 more year."

Your recruiters apparently don’t understand the math here or aren’t able to well articulate.

HPSP payback is 4 years for a 4 yr scholarship.

FM residency is 3 years if you go straight through.

During times in graduate medical education you do not payback any Med school commitment.

The commitment for your first residency is paid back concurrently with your HPSP commitment .

Therefore you would owe a total of 4 years after FM residency if you went straight through, which would end up being 7 years of service total. For the first 3 years after residency you would be paying back your HPSP commitment and your 3 year commitment for FM residency. You would be left with one additional year where you would be paying back the last year of your HPSP commitment.

(This would be for straight through FM training in a military hospital)


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[MTGas2B]

One correction to last. Intent/PGY1 is neutral. So a 3 year residency, like FM, incurs 2 years of obligation.



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[backrow]

One correction to last. Intent/PGY1 is neutral. So a 3 year residency, like FM, incurs 2 years of obligation.



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This is oft repeated, but I have never seen this in writing. All I ever see is DODI 6000.13 which says

Graduate Professional Education (GPE) ADO. A GPE ADO is incurred as a result of attending military-sponsored GPE. HPOs training in specialties in their respective fields will incur an ADO:

(a) Sponsored in a Military Training Program. A Service member attending sponsored GPE in a military or affiliated program will incur an ADO of one-half year for each half year or portion thereof; however, the minimum ADO is 2 years. That ADO will be served concurrently with other ADOs incurred for DoD-sponsored undergraduate education or training, or prior long-term health or health-related education or training. The GPE ADO will be served consecutively with other ADOs incurred for additional GPE training.

Maybe there is some other instruction I’m missing?



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[grave_robber]

I agree with the above, with some caveats. I also agree that your recruiter needs to up his game. That was hard to read, and I know the regs!

It is correct that obligations for HPSP and residency are served concurrently. It is also correct that intern year is neutral (more on that in a sec).

Your recruiter's explanation is jumbled, but there are some truths hidden in the jumbles. You will be required to be on active duty for at least FIVE years because they are COUNTING THE INTERN YEAR. Attending an active duty intern year is pretty much expected (with a few exceptions) even if you wait to do the rest of residency as a civilian after fulfilling your service obligation. Also, you have to realize that most military regulations are written as if the intern year and the rest of residency are completely separate entities, even though everyone else in the world talks about them as one continuous process (so, Fam Med in the real world is 3 years... in the military it's 1 + 2). Lastly, intern year (just like the rest of residency) doesn't count toward your four year HPSP obligation. Thus, you are really signing up for at least 5 years of active duty when you sign your contract (because you agree to do an intern year in the contract), but only 4 years after residency, which is what everyone cares about.

My HPSP contract really is the thing that spelled out the "neutral intern year" better than any regs. DODI 6000.13 is too generalized to be much help, because you can't tell by reading it that they are only referring to the time after intern year. The service-specific HPSP policy handbook that is published anually is your best bet. I'm Army, so I can only quote the Army one (it's on MODS). Here are a few excerpts from chapter 2 of the handbook:

2-3.a(3) Medical students who receive 4-year scholarships incur a 4-year ADO and 4-year RSO (reserve service obligation, eg,, IRR). Those who perform the 1-year AD PGY-1 will spend a total of 5 years (1-year PGY-1 and 4 years repaying ADO) on AD and have the 4-year RSO reduced to 3 years because 1 year of the RSO is repaid during AD .

2-4 Graduate Professional Education
a. The ADO for those selected for further (emphasis is mine) Graduate Professional Education (GPE) beyond the first year of graduate medical education or other GPE will be based on the existing Department of Defense and Army directives...
b. ...Current DoD and Army policy regarding ADO for GPE for physicians, dentists, and veterinarians (includes only residencies and fellowships) are governed by DoDI 6000.13. ...
(1) In a Military Facility: A member incurs an ADO of one-half year for each half year, or portion thereof, but the minimum ADO shall be not less than two years. The GPE ADO may be served concurrently with other ADOs (including HPSP/USUHS) or with obligations incurred for DoD-sponsored pre-professional (undergraduate) education (including ROTC) or training or prior long-term health or health-related education or training. The GPE ADO is served consecutively with an ADO incurred for other GPE and for the ADHPLRP.

I hope that helps.