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I exaggerated my EC's on AMCAS and I got called on it.
- Thread starter METTA WORLD PEACE
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I don't think so, though I rather limit the number of inconsistencies in my application to as few as possible.
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I get worried that I'm not doing enough while I volunteer.
At hospice, the patient is usually sleeping and so the caregiver will go out and tell me to watch TV or something. But that feels uncomfortable for me so I've started taking science magazines with me. I offer to help them with any chores they need, but they usually decline. I want to do more for them and feel like I should!. :/
Then, at the women's center on campus, I don't feel like I'm contributing much. At an event earlier this week I just swiped student ID cards as they lined up. I guess I was just expecting an earth shattering "woah, I'm making a difference!" Moment. I'm going to stick with Hospice, but I might find something different for the center. :/ maybe it's because I have worked at different places and I expected duties and tasks akin to an actual job, like volunteering free labor.
That's all. I don't have anything to actually add to the real point of this thread.
At hospice, the patient is usually sleeping and so the caregiver will go out and tell me to watch TV or something. But that feels uncomfortable for me so I've started taking science magazines with me. I offer to help them with any chores they need, but they usually decline. I want to do more for them and feel like I should!. :/
Then, at the women's center on campus, I don't feel like I'm contributing much. At an event earlier this week I just swiped student ID cards as they lined up. I guess I was just expecting an earth shattering "woah, I'm making a difference!" Moment. I'm going to stick with Hospice, but I might find something different for the center. :/ maybe it's because I have worked at different places and I expected duties and tasks akin to an actual job, like volunteering free labor.
That's all. I don't have anything to actually add to the real point of this thread.
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Volunteers running EKGs?!? The most important I've been asked to do was get a clean IV pump for an incoming trauma. The nurses always feel bad for us because we run out of things to do in the ED, having volunteers being very involved in clinical care seems like a huge liability.
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I'm just going to go out and say it: op, I'm glad you got caught, on the one hand.
On the other, I think the volunteering requirement is bull****. A bunch of people volunteering because it is expected basically gives you a bunch of false altruists.
On the other, I think the volunteering requirement is bull****. A bunch of people volunteering because it is expected basically gives you a bunch of false altruists.
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Not to derail the thread, but the key is to find something you are passionate about in order to make a difference. I thoroughly hated all of my volunteer activities until I fell in love with animal rescue. Once you're passionate about something, it's easier to get involved and make a difference. For example, our rescue has expanded to establish a prison-inmate system, train service dogs, etc. Volunteering does not have to be medically related!
Somewhat shocking I would say. Usually those that have been involved in such activities such as military or nursing should understand how things work in the adult world. Hmmm.
Well, it is true that there are people that will do the bare minimum. My husband is in business, and he sees this enough. What amazes me are those that get promotions primarily b/c they know how to BS people to get ahead. They aren't particularly knowledgeable or truly effective in their roles, yet they get promoted. I don't suffer too much at the notion of them, if they are not particularly dangerous, b/c I have lived long enough now to see that in due time, what they really are will show up. A life lesson is not to get too miffed about the unfair advances of others and focus on one's own life and effectiveness, whenever you can--but there are times when you have to be aware of the treacherous or toxic behaviors. In general, however I like to live by the Hebrew National Hot Dog Model. "We (I) answer to a higher authority." LOL.
Some of it seems, however, generational to me. For kids, for example, I do trust that my husband and I have transferred the same attitudes about effort and work ethic to our children. It appears so; but there is a strong cultural sense of entitlement among some of their peers that is bothersome to me.
People with weak work ethics are never fulfilled in what they do, b/c they don't care to do the work to find it's value to others as well as to them or to the collective whole, or they just don't find joy in what they are doing.
The most troublesome part of dealing with such people is rather than thriving on their work, they instead thrive on stirring up problems or stepping on others in order to attain advancement--either overtly or covertly. The covert ones are the most distressing, b/c you have to take extra time and effort to watch out for what they are doing, when it is absolutely necessary. Let's face it. You can't function as a blind fool. Those that overtly capitalize on various games to make advancement are easier to mark; hence you can carefully carry on with your purpose and work and not be exhausted too much my their antics. The snakes in the grass, however, they will try to trip you up, and thus your focus has to be diverted to their sneaky nonsense in order to prevent suffering from their hazardous mechanisms. They are the toxic people, but sometimes it takes a while before they reveal their pernicious motives and behaviors.
You can't wave a wand to change them, so, part of adult life is learning how to effectively deal with such individuals or even groups. If the environment is recalcitrant, one may have little choice but to move to a less noxious environment. Working in healthcare is highly stressful all by itself w/o added unnecessary poison and needless tension.
http://www.hebrewnational.com/hebrew-national-history
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I think m I would love Hospice if I could be more involved. The families I'm working with right now are sooooo kind and I think they would feel bad if they asked me to anything else, but I would really love to. I thought about just doing the dishes in one person's sink while they were out, but some people can be really finicky about people touching their stuff and doing things like that. :/ and the patients are usually too exhausted and sleeping to talk with or to ask anything of me.
I've just joined the "Chemistry Club" on campus too and I'm looking forward to working with them! They actually have community outreach events, mostly where they try to get younger kids interested in science. I'm not sure if the chem club is really going to be looked on as volunteer work, but I'm still looking forward to it nonetheless!
I've just joined the "Chemistry Club" on campus too and I'm looking forward to working with them! They actually have community outreach events, mostly where they try to get younger kids interested in science. I'm not sure if the chem club is really going to be looked on as volunteer work, but I'm still looking forward to it nonetheless!
Why not be shown how to do EKGs and then do some with a tech or nurse? I did this as a very young volunteer. What in the world are you going to hurt, so long as you are carefully shown what to do, and you are able to keep the patient still enough to not produce needless artifact? There are a number of things to see and do, and I understand concerns regarding people that are covered on the payroll, but for God's sake. Let's try to make the volunteer experiences meaningful. If the best you can do is to clean IV pumps and show more interest, and then when opportunity arises, you might apply for a tech job--or take the required course to become an ED tech or the like, well, go that route. IMHO, one can learn the most in areas such as the ED or a very busy, high acuity ICU or trauma area. A busy medical-surgical/tele floor can be a good experience too. It may depend upon making the right connections. And you have find those nurses and residents and attendings that have patience and will take an interest in you and teaching you. And never think you are better than anyone else--ever. Often people that can teach you and open you up to more experiences will not be impressed with a person that thinks they are too good to do more menial tasks. Generally, that is not how it works...unless maybe you are super hot, and someone has ulterior motives. LOL. That happens, but it usually doesn't end up very well.
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Hypothetically speaking, have you ever considered that their significant and serious past commitments led them to the conclusion that their current commitment is nothing more than a trivial time waster? That maybe they aren't secretly evil individuals who have given their sin into the irredeemable sin of apathy regarding their volunteering position? And, this one is just insane but, their evaluation of the significance of their current commitment might have some merit.
This is all hypothetical, of course. I would never entertain such thoughts.
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If you're talking about me, it wasn't candy stripers. It was clinical research assistants. Who did nothing all day. And didn't show up to the shifts they committed to but still claimed the hours.
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The LOR was not from the program. It was a physician letter. Recommenders, in an attempt to help the applicant, will often try to explain a perceived weakness in the application. In this case, the letter writer had no idea that matriculation had not been disclosed.My dad used to tell me "if you're going to be sneaky, at least be a good sneak". Not the best parenting advicebut Jesus Christ, did she think it would go unnoticed that she submitted a LoR from a program she's trying to pretend doesn't exist?
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This has been a very interesting thread and great reading. But we aren't going to be able to solve the premed clinical volunteering issues. And that's okay. It's not up to us to solve them as a group. What is important is the attitude and beliefs of the OP. If he thinks he didn't lie or falsify anything, what exactly did he think he was doing. If the OP doesn't see the error in thinking that this is an okay thing to do, maybe he doesn't really belong in medicine.
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Wow. You mean people will fulfill the expectations of them while doing the absolute minimum amount of work necessary?
Mind = blown
Hospice is also good, but it is quite different than say ED or ICUs or even busy med-surg areas. Every nurse that I know that has worked in it has loved it. I think they like the notion that now the focus is on what the patient wants. The tension of fighting the forces that undermine survival in most cases are set aside. There can be quite a sense of freedom for the patient. It truly does become about making the most of one day at a time--whatever that means for the patient. I think it would be good for students to see both sides. There are limits to what can be done, and there is this very interesting process that a patient and family must work through. In my area of nursing, I haven't seen a whole lot of "good deaths," so to speak. I have seen some. I have seen my family members suffer through horrible, protracted deaths, and then I have seen some family members die truly peaceful, even beautiful deaths by comparison with what I have been used to seeing. Doesn't take away the pain of the loss, but it does add a sense of happiness and peace when it can go on in a gentle, placid manner.
Then there is the experience of watching those that struggle with mental disorders or addiction. Those can be profound and powerful experiences, although, too, there are times that are nothing short of completely disheartening--preventable things--at least one would think presumably so.
My overall point is there are many areas for volunteer or tech-like work where one can volunteer and experience and learn so much if one is open to the commitment of it. If you just go in to sit and text message your friends, the loss goes all the way around from you, to others, to the very place that has chosen you to participate in the volunteering process. You decide.
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In short, no. I have not and would not want them volunteering at my organization, hospice, hospital, or other facility. Sorry. It's just a waste of time if you aren't gong to get into it.
Well, it's not really fulfilling any REAL expectation. It's essentially meaningless.
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I think there's a lot of value in having the volunteering requirement, and there's more purpose to volunteering than just singling out altruism. Especially in a clinical setting, you are pretty much starting out the lowest of low. You get to experience what people with the least amount of authority face on a daily basis. It's an incredibly invaluable and humbling experience. I have friends applying to medical school that refuse to volunteer because they think its beneath them
There is nothing demeaning or insignificant about functioning as a CRA or a candy striper, who is willing to actually work and help patients and the staff. The key is in the motives and ethics of the individual, not necessarily in his or her roles.
"High and mighty" some may say; but the attitude and actions are telling. As I said, what people are will eventually show up. If a person doesn't want to make the most of their experiences beyond writing volunteer hours on a form, ultimately, lol, if they are not utter fools, they will come to see it is their loss.
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It is true. I think MJ has, in his earlier times as an RRT, seen a lot of crap that volunteering shouldn't be. Until the work can be more objectively structured and validated, I can see where for many it will be just about fulfilling BS. I get what MJ means there.
Where I branch away from MJ is on the point of the general exposure to experiences--much as you have noted.
It is the individual's loss if he/she doesn't get the most that s/he can out of the experiences.
But there is another point too. Unless it is a very closely monitored and evaluated volunteer program/setting, there may well be no accountability. So, on the issue of accountability, that is where the rubber meets the road, ultimately, in terms of experience. When there is little to no accountability, the person is not a truly vested stakeholder. Again, that's where we can see the value of one's work.
Some may hate me saying this, but this is where being something like an experienced RN or RRT can make a difference--not merely b/c of clinical exposure, but b/c the expectations of accountability within the law and one's scope of practice. Pretty much, the volunteering experiences don't allow for this.
But I still feel that a person can have fulfilling and valuable experiences as a volunteer, if he or she perseveres.
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Not necessarily. If you want to be the lowest of the low, be a hospital janitor, a CNA, or a similar job. The thing about volunteering is you're essentially a tourist- you can leave whenever you want, you're not being paid, the job, if you don't care about it, it doesn't matter how well you perform. Hard to learn humility, respect, or humanity when you can just up and walk out and find another volunteering gig wherever if it doesn't work out and you don't give a damn about the job.
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I apologize if I'm hijacking the thread, but it's a simple question and I rather not start a new one. What happens when the contact person has the same last name as you? For example, on one of my activity, the contact person has the same last name as I do and we have no relation to one another at all. Would this raise some flags? My last name just happens to be one of the common ones like for example "Smith" or "Wilson".
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No one will think twice of it, particularly if it is Smith.
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Yeah, my last name is not Smith. I was just using that as an example of like super common last names.
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I'm confused about people complaining of the actual work done while ED volunteering in this thread. Whether or not this person saved lives every day, or stapled sheets of paper together for 4 hours, they still lied about the hours doing so. It's really as simple as that.
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I think it is still reasonable to consider it volunteering.
I was once gifted an honorarium of around $250 after a semester of volunteer activities. It isn't really employment, and you would find that you are not considered an employee of the district. It is not unusual for volunteers to receive gifts or to be entered into drawings for prizes, etc., as a recognition of their contribution to an effort. If you aren't doing it for the money, and would keep doing it if the money weren't offered, and aren't considered an employee by the organization, then you are still volunteering.
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I do think that it comes down to picking one's battles and doing what one can and knowing that one cannot be the policeman for the whole country. My adcom can keep an applicant out of this medical school. We have that power. Whether we can keep someone we believe is morally bankrupt from being admitted to any medical school in the country remains to be seen. We can report it but what happens in AMCAS and what happens in the adcom offices of other schools is out of our hands.
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You could list volunteer for period from (date) to (date) and list employed from (date) to (date). It actually looks good to be such a good volunteer that you were worth paying.
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Lol I'm specifically talking about the team of healthcare workers and clinical exposure. In that sense, student volunteers are the lowest in the hierarchy. I was also talking under the assumption that majority of the clinic volunteers are at least half decent beings and don't do the things listed above.
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I actually am a school district employee, I'm just employed as a therapist, not a tutor or teacher. So when the email came out asking for volunteers, I signed up.
A while after that, this came out through the school board. None of us even knew it was in the works.
The program is And hour and a half, twice a week. So probably by the end of the semester roughly half will be paid time, the other half unpaid.
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Ugh it's soo annoying when that happens! Just quit med school at this point
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OP is a troll - he makes an account yesterday and starts posting stupid things
- you can always go talk to patients... Being able to communicate is an important skill.
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Ah, well, that does change things a little.
Just count the unpaid hours as volunteer hours then. If you actually are an employee, that would be the safest way to go. You can still account for the paid hours on your app, just count them as work, rather than volunteer activities. If you feel that you need additional volunteer hours, I am sure that there are other opportunities in your area to collect a few.
I think this is an area where no one is likely to check too closely, but why risk everything over a 20 hour / semester discrepancy?
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WOW!! A lot of you need to get off your fvckin high horse. Since when is exaggerating a bit on volunteer hours the crime of the century? So I rounded up when I guestimated my hours....give me a break.
And because I did that, you guys assume I'll be a bad doctor? I won't do physical exams on patients and then lie that I did?
How many of you were completely honest when filling out your applications? Anything in your personal statement that your knew was complete BS? How bout those descriptions of your "research" gigs at school when all you really did was wash dishes and autoclave?? No exaggerations there? How bout them secondaries.....why do you want to attend X school? Complete honesty there I assume for all of you?
And because I did that, you guys assume I'll be a bad doctor? I won't do physical exams on patients and then lie that I did?
How many of you were completely honest when filling out your applications? Anything in your personal statement that your knew was complete BS? How bout those descriptions of your "research" gigs at school when all you really did was wash dishes and autoclave?? No exaggerations there? How bout them secondaries.....why do you want to attend X school? Complete honesty there I assume for all of you?
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Saying that you did 2.5 times as much work than you actually did is not ''guesstimating'' lol
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"rounding up" would be saying you did 100 hours when you actually did 96 hours.
100 to 250 is not rounding up, it's lying
And as far as honesty goes... I was 100 percent honest on my application and I'm guessing most people were too.
The problem isn't just the lie itself, it's also the degree of comfort you have with having lied.
My policy is unless your lie will prevent someone from getting murdered, don't lie.
And for the record I'm not saying I've never lied before, but the thing is I lied, and then I couldn't live with it so I came completely clean (at great cost to myself) and decided never to lie again.
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I have not lied and would not lie on an application. You're hanging out with the wrong crowd.
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To be clear: some people are confident enough in what they've done to be honest about their contributions. You, after comparing yourself to people on MDApps, felt insecure about your application and decided to lie. It's immature and suggests you have a fuzzy understanding of ethics. If you want a better application, make an effort and DO something to make it better.
Also, if you can't find a reason why you want to attend a school... you shouldn't apply! Every school I applied to has interesting programs, etc which drew me. That's not to say they are the only school, or the only place I could do activity X. Many schools have very similar programs, but that doesn't make the interest in a particular school any less true.
Seriously... if this thread weren't sad, it would be hilarious.
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I have a question, at the ED I volunteer at we have to sign in and clock in but sometime I sign in but forgot to clock in vise versa. Should I not include the hours I forgot to clock in to avoid these type of issues?
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As long as you remember to sign in half the time, you'll still be closer than the OP. For safe measure, and in case you're getting a letter from the coordinator, check with them about the 'system' hours before applying. They may include the number of hours in your letter, and if it's in conflict with your report that wouldn't look great. Sort it out with your coordinator. And make sure to check in, that's something you do in a lot of positions. Pretend you're getting paid if it helps -- if you don't log it, it didn't happen, and you don't get paid.
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Nope I think you're fine, though you might want to check with your volunteer office just to be safe.
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I just want to stop you right there. You probably will. Something like 2/3 of the docs I work with just have me document everything normal if the guy has a broken arm and never touch the patient with a stethoscope. They're not accusing you of murder here.
You're right here, but normal people can't conceptualize the spirit of the truth. They'll violate it all they want with skewed perspectives and lies of omission and as long as they don't have a record of their lies, its all fair game. "Why do you want to be a DO?" Don't make me laugh. You're just as bad as OP if you fudged the truth here, maybe worse. The application game is all about lying.
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No. Describing yourself in the most favorable way possible is nothing like blatantly lying about hours volunteered.
I can't believe you're equating 'skewed perspectives' with falsifying a huge number of hours.
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lol....right. 100% honesty on a med school application? So I guess you talked about prestige and making a lot of money in your personal statement.
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Congratulations
If it is called into question, have the other person along with you state that you are not related to each other. These things happen. Also happens with case workers, where sir names are the same, but the agency must verify there is no relationship, thus no conflict of interest is present. If there is no genuine conflict, there are no worries, so don't get crazy about it. 🙂
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My interest in medicine has nothing to do with either of those things so no I did not.
Just because you're a dishonest person doesn't mean other people can't be honest.
I hope that you will never get to see any patients because clearly you don't even have the most basic understanding of ethics.
