If you are sitting on a lot of acceptances and WLs, help out your friends on the WL support thread

[DrFortiusNatando]

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I spoke to an ADCOM at a place where students will likely be getting many acceptances. That person said there have been very few withdrawals, ie just a teeny tiny trickle in the weeks since acceptances released. That was surprising to me as a good number of my advisees have released most of their acceptances and WL spots already and are down to, at most, 2-4 schools at this point. (But they only did so at my prompting - they were hesitating bc they "felt bad" turning down these other acceptances...)

Some on SDN have as many as 10 to 14 acceptances! There is no way that people will be able to go to this many second looks, and though some people will have to wait for their financial aid packages, there are many students who already know they will not be going to school X or school Y.

So just because you CAN wait until May 1 to go down to one school, does not mean that you should. If you spend any time on the WL support thread, you will appreciate how much turmoil it is to not know whether they need to reapply for med school vs apply for (new) gap year jobs, re-sign leases, etc etc. And generally, for each acceptance that is released that can go to a WL student, there is a trickle down effect (in general to lower tier schools) that can take weeks to happen. Most of the acceptances that will be released are being held by tippy top students who have amassed many acceptances.

FYI - I have no personal interest in this as I have no advisees who are still sitting on WL spots. Just reminding people to look at your spreadsheets and release your A and WL spots that you know you do not want. And keep doing this as you get more info at 2nd looks and financial aid awards. Don't wait til May 1!

 

[965978]

I just want to say something to my fellow WL’d people who don’t have an acceptance yet.

Don’t give up. Don’t lose hope. I know it’s hard. The feeling of not being able to get the fruits of your labor after years of hard work and the thought of applying again and/or having to take the MCAT again is utterly terrifying and agonizing almost every waking moment of the day. I’ve been feeling those things all year long.

But you’re more than just an aspiring physician. You’re someone unique and special, who is still living and breathing and has the opportunity to take advantage of life.

Over the past several months, I’ve been coming to terms with the fact that I, in all likelihood, will have to reapply. I’ve been gearing up to reapply by taking a new job, getting more service in, re-writing my essays, and getting in more shadowing. And forcing myself to focus on the future and focus on reapplying and building a stronger app despite the very strong negative pull-down of having a failed cycle has drastically improved my emotional and mental control. In a way, I’m glad that this year has been tough because it’s allowed me to gain strength in my heart and mind.

It’s like something my grandfather used to say: sometimes life will take you down to rock bottom because there’s a trampoline there that will take you up higher than before (yes I know this violates conservation of energy, but it’s just a metaphor LOL).

 

[theKingLT]

While being nice to others is always a good thing, they knew what they signed up for. I'm sitting on 6 As, withdrawn from 1, and stand by it. Schools need to speed up financial aid packages if they want more acceptances dropped before April. I've worked too hard to not maximize the payoff by finding my way to as low of debt as possible.

 

[toot_poot]

a ton of us will have to commit to enroll by x date in June-ish. so i would be expecting some movement then as well

 

[907914]

Who even considers going to 10-14 interviews let alone holding that many acceptances?!? If I have the benefit of receiving more than one acceptance this coming cycle, I will gladly turn down any future interviews to decide between the first 2 or 3 schools that accept me...

 

[lalalallala]

While being nice to others is always a good thing, they knew what they signed up for. I'm sitting on 6 As, withdrawn from 1, and stand by it. Schools need to speed up financial aid packages if they want more acceptances dropped before April. I've worked too hard to not maximize the payoff by finding my way to as low of debt as possible.

No one is saying that you should withdraw acceptances from schools that you are seriously considering, but many people hold on to all of their acceptances regardless of whether they have any plans to attend. The 'they know what they signed up for' part of your post isn't a strong argument...

 

[OchemOficionado]

Who even considers going to 10-14 interviews let alone holding that many acceptances?!? If I have the benefit of receiving more than one acceptance this coming cycle, I will gladly turn down any future interviews to decide between the first 2 or 3 schools that accept me...

A few people every cycle that want to truly explore all of their options.

Easier said than done. I thought I would do the same, but sometimes you are curious to how your other decisions and fin aid packages will pan out. Many times, visiting schools changes your impression of them as well and the thought of just going to ANY school that will take you disappears once you have options.

 

[southpaw3]

Is it worthwhile to withdraw from a school where you're on the WL if you know you don't want to attend there? Or does it only make sense to do that if you eventually get accepted?

 

[OchemOficionado]

Is it worthwhile to withdraw from a school where you're on the WL if you know you don't want to attend there? Or does it only make sense to do that if you eventually get accepted?

If you know you don't want to go there you should remove your app from consideration so they can move on to the next student. Why risk getting accepted and temporarily holding a spot you know you don't want. Just to make them wait for you to decline it so they can then offer it to someone else. Lol.

 

[catnip12]

Who even considers going to 10-14 interviews let alone holding that many acceptances?!? If I have the benefit of receiving more than one acceptance this coming cycle, I will gladly turn down any future interviews to decide between the first 2 or 3 schools that accept me...

I know (think?) this is a bit tongue in cheek, but if you are serious, then I guess it's worth noting that after those first 2-3 interviews, you'll notice how different the schools are and, unless you have a pretty good idea of where you want to be and so forth (and of course get that A later), then it might not just he as easy as taking those 1st couple acceptances and turning down the rest. But again these are only assumptions.

I do sympathize with the sentiment of the OP however. I have friends who are waiting on getting off the waitlist of the one school that interviewed them and it's a tough wait. Too many decisions are in limbo for them. I often can't look them in the eye when an unsuspecting non pre-med friend asks me when they're around; "have you decided where you're going yet?" and I know they don't even have a single option.
It's the nature of the beast but it's also a good reminder to ease the difficulty of the process for others, if at all possible. E.g. Releasing a few of your 12 acceptances.

 

[southpaw3]

If you know you don't want to go there you should remove your app from consideration so they can move on to the next student. Why risk getting accepted and temporarily holding a spot you know you don't want. Just to make them wait for you to decline it so they can then offer it to someone else. Lol.

Fair enough. I just wasn't sure what etiquette was. But I can certainly withdraw just in case!

 

[theKingLT]

Who even considers going to 10-14 interviews let alone holding that many acceptances?!? If I have the benefit of receiving more than one acceptance this coming cycle, I will gladly turn down any future interviews to decide between the first 2 or 3 schools that accept me...

Unfortunately it's not that simple. I was 9 interviews in before I received my first acceptance and it was to a school at the bottom of my list so I kept attending interviews as they came. It's even more complicated when you consider the potential for scholarships. $4k in interview costs is worth a potential $100,000+ scholarship.

No one is saying that you should withdraw acceptances from schools that you are seriously considering, but many people hold on to all of their acceptances regardless of whether they have any plans to attend. The 'they know what they signed up for' part of your post isn't a strong argument...

I'm not convinced there are huge throngs of people walking around with tons of acceptances that they don't care about. Surely it happens sometimes but it just doesn't make sense to hold on to the ones you're for sure not going to and people like closure. I could be totally wrong since I haven't seen numbers for either side, but I would bet lack of people dropping acceptances has more to do with lack of financial aid packages then anything.

As for the "they knew what they signed up for", it's true. School websites are very clear on timelines. I'm all for helping people out but no one should rush an important decision like this over it is all I'm saying. Even if your 90% sure on where you want to go, better take your time and make that 100% rather than pick wrong because you feel bad for people stuck on wait lists who will find out in a few months regardless.

 

[lalalallala]

I'm not convinced there are huge throngs of people walking around with tons of acceptances that they don't care about. Surely it happens sometimes but it just doesn't make sense to hold on to the ones you're for sure not going to and people like closure. I could be totally wrong since I haven't seen numbers for either side, but I would bet lack of people dropping acceptances has more to do with lack of financial aid packages then anything.

I agree it has a lot to do with financial aid packages, but I, for example, dropped two acceptances this week because I liked other schools more and knew those schools weren't going to give me the money required for me to attend. Hopefully some people won't have to wait too far into the summer to get those spots so they can get planning with their life. Other people aren't reliant on financial aid, so they don't need to wait. I think OP was just reminding us in general of this message - you personally don't have to alter your course because of it - because some SDN members don't seem clear on what to do. One poster for example didn't know if you should stay on WL's of schools you wouldn't go to... so clearly some advising can be worthwhile

 

[LadyGlen]

I have 5 acceptances and waiting on one decision. I really wish I could drop all but one acceptance but I can’t without financial aid information. I want to start planning and have closure! But money is the most important factor for me. Can you tell the schools to hurry up and release fin aid info?

 

[TempuraOreos]

I have 5 acceptances and waiting on one decision. I really wish I could drop all but one acceptance but I can’t without financial aid information. I want to start planning and have closure! But money is the most important factor for me. Can you tell the schools to hurry up and release fin aid info?

This is the case for me too. I've let go of more than half of my acceptances and all my waitlist spots at schools that I didn't like more than my other acceptances so doing my part.

 

[Med Ed]

I'm not convinced there are huge throngs of people walking around with tons of acceptances that they don't care about. Surely it happens sometimes but it just doesn't make sense to hold on to the ones you're for sure not going to and people like closure.

I don't think anyone has asserted that "huge throngs" of people are walking around with tons of acceptances they don't care about. But we do have a handful every year who get accepted in October/November, have zero engagement with us for 5-6 months, and then drop on the last day. And they do gum up the system somewhat.

I'm all for helping people out but no one should rush an important decision like this over it is all I'm saying.

I don't think anyone has asserted that this decision should be rushed. But if the decision not to attend a given school has already been made, contact the admissions office and withdraw.

 

[Med Ed]

Can you tell the schools to hurry up and release fin aid info?

It's a waste of resources to generate financial aid packages for hypothetical matriculants. If you take a tour of financial aid offices at medical schools around the country, you will not find many that are overstaffed.

The schools I am familiar with tend to have three pots of money:
1. Recruitment - used to attract high value applicants, typically deployed soon after acceptance
2. Need-based - self explanatory, not rushed
3. Merit-based - variable definition of "merit," usually not rushed, may be going the way of the dinosaur

The unfortunate reality is that it's a seller's market, most accepted applicants are interchangeable, and not much scholarship money is present in the system.

 

[theKingLT]

I don't think anyone has asserted that "huge throngs" of people are walking around with tons of acceptances they don't care about. But we do have a handful every year who get accepted in October/November, have zero engagement with us for 5-6 months, and then drop on the last day. And they do gum up the system somewhat.

Some on SDN have as many as 10 to 14 acceptances! There is no way that people will be able to go to this many second looks, and though some people will have to wait for their financial aid packages, there are many students who already know they will not be going to school X or school Y.

You're right, I misread this part from OP as asserting that the majority of late April acceptance drops are due to people unnecessarily holding on to acceptances while a minority are due to school controlled factors like financial aid or other decisions. I'm not sure if @gorowannabe is saying that or not, or if there's any data to back it up, but I think just saying that there are students who drop the last day is not much evidence of people holding acceptances unnecessarily because you have no idea why they made the decisions they made. All I know is my n=1 experience. which is that of 7 acceptances only 2 have returned financial aid info. If I consider all the schools I interviewed at for a broader picture of why many of my acceptances will not be dropped until late, of 14 interviews, I have 1 reject and 2 accepts with financial aid info. So that puts only 2 of 14 off the table as of mid march! I can't say that's the trend for everyone but that's what makes me think that the majority of the reasons why any given acceptance is dropped in April as opposed to earlier is because of delayed financial aid from the school, or delayed desicions/financial aid from other schools the applicant is considering.

I don't think anyone has asserted that this decision should be rushed. But if the decision not to attend a given school has already been made, contact the admissions office and withdraw.

No one is saying that you should withdraw acceptances from schools that you are seriously considering

Of course no one should be unnecessarily holding on to acceptances which is why I have no issue with the original post. It's well intentioned and there are certainly people who visit this site who don't know they should be dropping acceptances; however, it's qualifiers like the one above (seriously considering) that irk me. I would encourage anyone reading this to not feel pressured to make a decision until you have all the info you can, even if you are not "seriously considering" one of the options. I guess this comes down to semantics, but I would encourage people even if there is only a slight chance of changing your mind based on financial aid, second look, or whatever other info you can get, wait it out and make a rational decision considering all information.

 

[Med Ed]

but I think just saying that there are students who drop the last day is not much evidence of people holding acceptances unnecessarily because you have no idea why they made the decisions they made.

I do think we have evidence in some cases. When we accept an applicant and that person initiates the matriculation process (FAFSA, immunizations, etc.) we have a strong indication that the person is interested. Some might even say seriously interested. It doesn't mean the situation won't change, but the person is at least telegraphing an intention.

The people who cause us heartburn are the ones, typically very well qualified, who sit on a seat for months with no contact. No FAFSA, no immunizations, no housing inquiries, no nothing. Again, this is only a few each year, but each time a new seat opens it has a potential cascading effect.

 

[theKingLT]

I do think we have evidence in some cases. When we accept an applicant and that person initiates the matriculation process (FAFSA, immunizations, etc.) we have a strong indication that the person is interested. Some might even say seriously interested. It doesn't mean the situation won't change, but the person is at least telegraphing an intention.

The people who cause us heartburn are the ones, typically very well qualified, who sit on a seat for months with no contact. No FAFSA, no immunizations, no housing inquiries, no nothing. Again, this is only a few each year, but each time a new seat opens it has a potential cascading effect.

I would agree if they don't even submit fafsa! It takes two seconds to add another schools to fafsa! Do you guys ever try reaching out to these students and asking how their decision making is going?

 

[DrFortiusNatando]

Is it worthwhile to withdraw from a school where you're on the WL if you know you don't want to attend there? Or does it only make sense to do that if you eventually get accepted?

Definitely withdraw if you know you do not want to go there.

 

[DrFortiusNatando]

While being nice to others is always a good thing, they knew what they signed up for. I'm sitting on 6 As, withdrawn from 1, and stand by it. Schools need to speed up financial aid packages if they want more acceptances dropped before April. I've worked too hard to not maximize the payoff by finding my way to as low of debt as possible.

This is fine especially since it sounds like financial aid is very important to your decision. And you already did withdraw from one. There are many others on this thread for whom it does not matter a lot, or they got a scholarship to their dream school, or are MSTP and it is not going to matter or have 10+. acceptances and already can eliminate some. I was just completely surprised by the ADCOM saying they literally only got 2 declines. And since this is a school where people will get a lot of other acceptances, it was shocking to me. I have already had my advisees collectively give up Acceptances already at Harvard, Columbia, Penn, UMASS, UCONN, UCLA and UCSF, and Vanderbilt and remove WL spots at Mt Sinai and Mayo. And I only have a handful of advisees - so they have made a significant dent compared to all of the rest of the students applying this cycle, if this school with its 2 declines is typical of the other top schools at this point.

I do understand your frustration with the financial aid offers. Schools with rolling admissions should have a good head start on this process if a student has done FAFSA and the other things needed!

 

[theKingLT]

This is fine especially since it sounds like financial aid is very important to your decision. And you already did withdraw from one. There are many others on this thread for whom it does not matter a lot, or they got a scholarship to their dream school, or are MSTP and it is not going to matter or have 10+. acceptances and already can eliminate some. I was just completely surprised by the ADCOM saying they literally only got 2 declines. And since this is a school where people will get a lot of other acceptances, it was shocking to me. I have already had my advisees collectively give up Acceptances already at Harvard, Columbia, Penn, UMASS, UCONN, UCLA and UCSF, and Vanderbilt and remove WL spots at Mt Sinai and Mayo. And I only have a handful of advisees - so they have made a significant dent compared to all of the rest of the students applying this cycle, if this school with its 2 declines is typical of the other top schools at this point.

I do understand your frustration with the financial aid offers. Schools with rolling admissions should have a good head start on this process if a student has done FAFSA and the other things needed!

You would think, but it varies a lot by school. One of my first acceptances (December) informed me they won't even begin processing financial aid until April!

 

[LadyGlen]

It's a waste of resources to generate financial aid packages for hypothetical matriculants. If you take a tour of financial aid offices at medical schools around the country, you will not find many that are overstaffed.

The schools I am familiar with tend to have three pots of money:
1. Recruitment - used to attract high value applicants, typically deployed soon after acceptance
2. Need-based - self explanatory, not rushed
3. Merit-based - variable definition of "merit," usually not rushed, may be going the way of the dinosaur

The unfortunate reality is that it's a seller's market, most accepted applicants are interchangeable, and not much scholarship money is present in the system.

I get this. And I understand that schools are not even obligated to give us financial aid info before April 30. But it does put those of us for whom money is a major factor in a bit of a bind. All of my schools have promised information in advance of traffic day, and hopefully sooner rather than later. I really would like to narrow things down to 1 or 2 schools.

 

[LizzyM]

Please keep in mind that one applicant dropping an offer does not mean an automatic offer going out to someone on the waitlist. My school, for example, needs >200 applicants to drop their offers before it will need to select even one applicant from the waitlist. We gamble on having many strong candidates who will have multiple offers and that only a small proportion will take our offer over others.

 

[907914]

Please keep in mind that one applicant dropping an offer does not mean an automatic offer going out to someone on the waitlist. My school, for example, needs >200 applicants to drop their offers before it will need to select even one applicant from the waitlist. We gamble on having many strong candidates who will have multiple offers and that only a small proportion will take our offer over others.

What happens if your school gets too many matriculants?

 

[LizzyM]

What happens if your school gets too many matriculants?

The dean of admissions is forced to walk the plank. It has never happened here. @Goro calls admissions at this level one of the black arts.

I have heard that it has happened elsewhere and some admitted students are offered a year's free tuition to go away and come back next year.

 

[907914]

The dean of admissions is forced to walk the plank. It has never happened here. @Goro calls admissions at this level one of the black arts.

I have heard that it has happened elsewhere and some admitted students are offered a year's free tuition to go away and come back next year.

Can students voluntarily take that deal? Lol I am trying my darndest to avoid a gap year, but $50K would be enough to justify it!

I am sure this is NOT a frequent occurance.

 

[manofsteel9]

This is fine especially since it sounds like financial aid is very important to your decision. And you already did withdraw from one. There are many others on this thread for whom it does not matter a lot, or they got a scholarship to their dream school, or are MSTP and it is not going to matter or have 10+. acceptances and already can eliminate some. I was just completely surprised by the ADCOM saying they literally only got 2 declines. And since this is a school where people will get a lot of other acceptances, it was shocking to me. I have already had my advisees collectively give up Acceptances already at Harvard, Columbia, Penn, UMASS, UCONN, UCLA and UCSF, and Vanderbilt and remove WL spots at Mt Sinai and Mayo. And I only have a handful of advisees - so they have made a significant dent compared to all of the rest of the students applying this cycle, if this school with its 2 declines is typical of the other top schools at this point.

I do understand your frustration with the financial aid offers. Schools with rolling admissions should have a good head start on this process if a student has done FAFSA and the other things needed!

Super random and just out of curiosity, but do you get paid to have advisees? Are adcoms allowed to take in advisees for financial benefit? What if they apply to your school?

 

[907914]

Super random and just out of curiosity, but do you get paid to have advisees? Are adcoms allowed to take in advisees for financial benefit? What if they apply to your school?

Piggyback question: How do premeds get hooked up with an ADCOM advisor?

 

[LizzyM]

Can students voluntarily take that deal? Lol I am trying my darndest to avoid a gap year, but $50K would be enough to justify it!

I am sure this is NOT a frequent occurance.

It is like getting bumped from a flight and offered $600 and a first class ticket home on a later flight. It happens but not often and not when you wish it would.

 

[965978]

It is like getting bumped from a flight and offered $600 and a first class ticket home on a later flight. It happens but not often and not when you wish it would.

Speaking of watilists, what percent of an average school's waitlist would you say automatically cuts itself through voluntary withdrawal?

 

[LizzyM]

Speaking of watilists, what percent of an average school's waitlist would you say automatically cuts itself through voluntary withdrawal?

I have no idea.

 

[DrFortiusNatando]

Super random and just out of curiosity, but do you get paid to have advisees? Are adcoms allowed to take in advisees for financial benefit? What if they apply to your school?

Hi, I only do pro bono work, mostly for financially disadvantaged students from my local undergrad who usually find me from their advisors or come to shadow me. Others find me bc my best friend is a neuroscience professor with a lab at a very good nearby regional undergrad institution (mid tier at best, nationally), and she is a PhD and so can't help much with the medical school admissions process. My husband is a professor at a mid-tier regional college, in a non-science department, and occasionally, financially disadvantaged kids applying to medical school are sent my way via his contacts. That is why I do not charge any money! (At the latter 2 regional institutions, the pre-med advising office is essentially non-existent).

Originally, I did a lot of this advising on the side bc I have 4 kids who are college-aged and older and since my kids all went to a top-ranked private high school and then top colleges, there are a good number of their friends who were applying to medical school over the years, and even though they usually went to schools with great pre-med advising services, they were always happy to have some extra (free) input.

And there has not yet been a conflict of interest with advisees bc I have essentially no role in the final decision-making process of who gets in at my school. I am more involved with students once they get to medical school. I am only "adcom" in that I do interview 10-20 applicants most years, but would never interview one of my advisees and recuse myself from any discussions of anyone I know, advisee or not. (Since I raised my children in this city, there have occasionally been applicants discussed whom I knew from being in playgroup, soccer, or high school with my kids, and of course I recuse myself). And this is not uncommon among most faculty here - many will occasionally know an applicant who played in their living room long ago! I never request they take another look at anyone's application. I do not know who is accepted until the day before the admissions decisions are released to the students. The way our school adcom works is that there are a bunch of smaller committees that make recommendations to an oversight committee that makes the final decisions, so it is unlikely that I or any one of dozens and dozens of interviewers have any real ability to influence a process that involves over 4-6K applicants, and hundreds of interviewees.

 

[manofsteel9]

Hi, I only do pro bono work, mostly for financially disadvantaged students from my local undergrad who usually find me from their advisors or come to shadow me. Others find me bc my best friend is a neuroscience professor with a lab at a very good nearby regional undergrad institution (mid tier at best, nationally), and she is a PhD and so can't help much with the medical school admissions process. My husband is a professor at a mid-tier regional college, in a non-science department, and occasionally, financially disadvantaged kids applying to medical school are sent my way via his contacts. That is why I do not charge any money! (At the latter 2 regional institutions, the pre-med advising office is essentially non-existent).

Originally, I did a lot of this advising on the side bc I have 4 kids who are college-aged and older and since my kids all went to a top-ranked private high school and then top colleges, there are a good number of their friends who were applying to medical school over the years, and even though they usually went to schools with great pre-med advising services, they were always happy to have some extra (free) input.

And there has not yet been a conflict of interest with advisees bc I have essentially no role in the final decision-making process of who gets in at my school. I am more involved with students once they get to medical school. I am only "adcom" in that I do interview 10-20 applicants most years, but would never interview one of my advisees and recuse myself from any discussions of anyone I know, advisee or not. (Since I raised my children in this city, there have occasionally been applicants discussed whom I knew from being in playgroup, soccer, or high school with my kids, and of course I recuse myself). And this is not uncommon among most faculty here - many will occasionally know an applicant who played in their living room long ago! I never request they take another look at anyone's application. I do not know who is accepted until the day before the admissions decisions are released to the students. The way our school adcom works is that there are a bunch of smaller committees that make recommendations to an oversight committee that makes the final decisions, so it is unlikely that I or any one of dozens and dozens of interviewers have any real ability to influence a process that involves over 4-6K applicants, and hundreds of interviewees.

Thank you for the detailed response, and I greatly admire what you’re doing pro-bono to help disadvantaged applicants. I was honestly just curious if the med school or its committee has any regulations regarding advising students for financial gain.

 

[965978]

Thank you for the detailed response, and I greatly admire what you’re doing pro-bono to help disadvantaged applicants. I was honestly just curious if the med school or its committee has any regulations regarding advising students for financial gain.

The only ones doing that are predatory and scummy companies offering to practically write personal statements for rich kids

 

[DrFortiusNatando]

Piggyback question: How do premeds get hooked up with an ADCOM advisor?

I get referrals from a PhD friend who runs a neuroscience lab at a very good regional university (only mid-tier national reputation). I also get referrals from my children - their friends, and since one of my kids was pre-med, had a LOT of friends who wanted advice. And I get some referrals from the UG advisors at my institution who usually send kids to shadow me. But I am very low level ADCOM - I just interview 10-20 students most years for a little more than 10 years and go to our lower committee meetings where we make recommendations to a higher level committee that makes the main decisions. (I have so little pull that my favorite applicant of 20 I interviewed last year was rejected by my school, but accepted at a T5 elsewhere!)

Eventually, I may charge for my services, but that would only be once I no longer was working my. day job and once I was completely finished doing ADCOM work.

 

[DrFortiusNatando]

Thank you for the detailed response, and I greatly admire what you’re doing pro-bono to help disadvantaged applicants. I was honestly just curious if the med school or its committee has any regulations regarding advising students for financial gain.

It probably does happen. This would be terrible. That is why I can not in good conscience charge for my advice. It is bad enough that my kids' friends get free advice bc of who they know, even though their UG's do offer good premed advice and many of them are reasonably well-off. I can certainly see how that would be seen as unfair. But that is why I also help disadvantaged kids - or even "typical" students who are sent my way.

But I am sure you all saw the NY Times article about the UG admissions process.
College Admissions Scandal: Actresses, Business Leaders and Other Wealthy Parents Charged

Once our committee convenes again, I will make sure that we make sure there is a policy that no current adcoms can charge for their services. I know one retired faculty member, who does not work on ADCOM anymore, has a business for med school advising. He does a lot of pro bono pipeline program work, starting in HS, advising students who might want careers in medicine, whether in respiratory therapy, diagnostic imaging technician, nursing, or medical/dental school. He also charges (a fair rate IMO) for those who can pay. I even used him when one of my own kids applied and had poor interviewing skills and paid him for one of my kids' friends who needed a little interview refinement but could not afford to pay. I know he did not have his business when he still worked on adcom, but I bet there are some in the business who are less than scrupulous.

 

[Arsartium]

Who even considers going to 10-14 interviews let alone holding that many acceptances?!? If I have the benefit of receiving more than one acceptance this coming cycle, I will gladly turn down any future interviews to decide between the first 2 or 3 schools that accept me...

It is good that there are advocates here that encourage applicants to reflect deeply and earlier in the process so that both schools and those on waitlists can spend a little less time in limbo. With the new traffic rules, it seems that empathy may be even more important in the application medical school process. However, that empathy should be bidirectional. I had over a dozen interviews before Oct 15. And why would I refuse an interview before my first acceptance? With an ugrad gpa < 3.0, I didn't feel I had the right to refuse any interview. Even more, schools that wouldn't have made my top 5 pre-interview, astounded me on interview day. It cost me thousands of dollars in travel and days off from work, but I don't regret attending every interview I could. I've met incredible students, applicants, and faculty. Regardless of the outcome, every interview was an opportunity for new mentorship or friendship. Even more, I didn't know what to look for, or what questions to ask until I had attended 3-4 interviews.

And add all that to the "2-body" problem @gorowannabe mentioned in another thread. My SO is a reapplicant and we hope to go to medical school together. For me, every interview was another chance to be together. We're prepared to do long-distance, but we'd prefer not to. So yes, I have been fortunate to have had 15 offers (and have withdrawn from 6) but I refuse to withdraw from a school unless it is 1) too expensive for us and/or 2) rejects my partner. There are no "throwaways" on my list. I chose them each for a reason--a great one.

For all those without an A yet, I support you. Until very recently, my partner was in the same position. Please don't think that I or anyone else are hoarding acceptances maliciously. There's a whole story behind the avatar.

TLDR: Keeping acceptances so my SO and I have a better chance of attending the same school. Everyone has a story.

 

[DrFortiusNatando]

It is good that there are advocates here that encourage applicants to reflect deeply and earlier in the process so that both schools and those on waitlists can spend a little less time in limbo. With the new traffic rules, it seems that empathy may be even more important in the application medical school process. However, that empathy should be bidirectional. I had over a dozen interviews before Oct 15. And why would I refuse an interview before my first acceptance? With an ugrad gpa < 3.0, I didn't feel I had the right to refuse any interview. Even more, schools that wouldn't have made my top 5 pre-interview, astounded me on interview day. It cost me thousands of dollars in travel and days off from work, but I don't regret attending every interview I could. I've met incredible students, applicants, and faculty. Regardless of the outcome, every interview was an opportunity for new mentorship or friendship. Even more, I didn't know what to look for, or what questions to ask until I had attended 3-4 interviews.

And add all that to the "2-body" problem @gorowannabe mentioned in another thread. My SO is a reapplicant and we hope to go to medical school together. For me, every interview was another chance to be together. We're prepared to do long-distance, but we'd prefer not to. So yes, I have been fortunate to have had 15 offers (and have withdrawn from 6) but I refuse to withdraw from a school unless it is 1) too expensive for us and/or 2) rejects my partner. There are no "throwaways" on my list. I chose them each for a reason--a great one.

For all those without an A yet, I support you. Until very recently, my partner was in the same position. Please don't think that I or anyone else are hoarding acceptances maliciously. There's a whole story behind the avatar.

TLDR: Keeping acceptances so my SO and I have a better chance of attending the same school. Everyone has a story.

Yes, I do not think that most people are hoarding maliciously. I wrote the post bc even two of my advisees - the couple, who amassed a lot of T20 acceptances and a couple of WL's, had not released their acceptances that they knew they were not going to accept until I reminded them this week. One had a couple of acceptances 3000 miles away from anywhere the other in the partnership even got an interview.

They only got into 2 programs in the same city, and 100% agreed to prioritize being together, regardless of costs, over going to the #1 or #3 school in the country. And since one is relatively well-off and the other is extremely disadvantaged, money is not likely to enter into the decision as one will pay full freight and one will pay very little. But yes, with your 2 body problem, I totally get how hard this process is. Almost impossible. I really wish schools asked about this and took 2 body problem into account - as residency process allows. (2 of the schools offered interviews to the other partner after they interviewed one and really liked the first person - but most schools ignored the issue completely.) One partner would have definitely gone to a top NYC school if other partner got in - but even though other partner got into Harvard, ucla, UCSF, etc, that person didn't get any.NYC interviews.) I think this is a missed opportunity for schools, especially when it comes to non-traditional students who may be more likely to be in a committed relationship! The NYC schools who interviewed partner #1 were (unknowingly) completely wasting their interviews bc no way they were going there if partner #2 did not get interviews and accepted.

Best of luck to you and your partner. Residency match in the future will be much better, I promise!

 

[907914]

Yes, I do not think that most people are hoarding maliciously. I wrote the post bc even two of my advisees - the couple, who amassed a lot of T20 acceptances and a couple of WL's, had not released their acceptances that they knew they were not going to accept until I reminded them this week. One had a couple of acceptances 3000 miles away from anywhere the other in the partnership even got an interview.

They only got into 2 programs in the same city, and 100% agreed to prioritize being together, regardless of costs, over going to the #1 or #3 school in the country. And since one is relatively well-off and the other is extremely disadvantaged, money is not likely to enter into the decision as one will pay full freight and one will pay very little. But yes, with your 2 body problem, I totally get how hard this process is. Almost impossible. I really wish schools asked about this and took 2 body problem into account - as residency process allows. (2 of the schools offered interviews to the other partner after they interviewed one and really liked the first person - but most schools ignored the issue completely.) One partner would have definitely gone to a top NYC school if other partner got in - but even though other partner got into Harvard, ucla, UCSF, etc, that person didn't get any.NYC interviews.) I think this is a missed opportunity for schools, especially when it comes to non-traditional students who may be more likely to be in a committed relationship! The NYC schools who interviewed partner #1 were (unknowingly) completely wasting their interviews bc no way they were going there if partner #2 did not get interviews and accepted.

Best of luck to you and your partner. Residency match in the future will be much better, I promise!

For the match with residencies, the '2 body' problem is taken in to account, right?

 

[LizzyM]

For the match with residencies, the '2 body' problem is taken in to account, right?

Yes, provided you are both MDs looking to "couples match". The 2 body problem continues for pairs in disparate professions.

 

[gyngyn]

For the match with residencies, the '2 body' problem is taken in to account, right?

The couple's match is a nightmare, though.

 

[puahate]

It's a waste of resources to generate financial aid packages for hypothetical matriculants. If you take a tour of financial aid offices at medical schools around the country, you will not find many that are overstaffed.

The schools I am familiar with tend to have three pots of money:
1. Recruitment - used to attract high value applicants, typically deployed soon after acceptance
2. Need-based - self explanatory, not rushed
3. Merit-based - variable definition of "merit," usually not rushed, may be going the way of the dinosaur

The unfortunate reality is that it's a seller's market, most accepted applicants are interchangeable, and not much scholarship money is present in the system.

Thats cool and all but i think i rather wait for scholarships

 

[Med Ed]

Thats cool and all but i think i rather wait for scholarships

No doubt they will be arriving shortly.

 

[treesnm3s]

I'm holding onto 7/15 As, for purely financial reasons. As soon as I found out a few schools weren't going to throw any more money at me than I had already been offered elsewhere, I withdrew. My MD mentors showed me their student loan balances a few months ago, nearly 20 years out of residency. No thanks lol. As soon as I get financial aid packages from other schools, I can continue to adjust. I'm not "hoarding" acceptances for any other reason. They aren't keeping me warm at night.

If anyone would be willing to pay my student loans out of school (including undergrad), I'd be happy to immediately withdraw from all but a few schools 😉

 

[TempuraOreos]

I'm holding onto 7/15 As, for purely financial reasons. As soon as I found out a few schools weren't going to throw any more money at me than I had already been offered elsewhere, I withdrew. My MD mentors showed me their student loan balances a few months ago, nearly 20 years out of residency. No thanks lol. As soon as I get financial aid packages from other schools, I can continue to adjust. I'm not "hoarding" acceptances for any other reason. They aren't keeping me warm at night.

If anyone would be willing to pay my student loans out of school (including undergrad), I'd be happy to immediately withdraw from all but a few schools 😉

So you looking for a nice fructose father and/or maltose momma, I see. I ain't mad at you. It's gonna be hard out on those wards. Lol

 

[treesnm3s]

So you looking for a nice fructose father and/or maltose momma, I see. I ain't mad at you. Lol

Hey man gotta get it how you live

 

[TempuraOreos]

Hey man gotta get it how you live

Truuuuu!!!!!

 

[DrFortiusNatando]

The couple's match is a nightmare, though.

But at least the couple's match gives some control to the couple. The couple ranks places in an order that appeals to them. The couple also gets to identify on their ERAS application that they are part of a couple match. Then Program Directors (PD) can know to contact the PD in the other specialty at the same institution to see if the other person in the couple is competitive for that specialty at that program. A PD may even decide to interview and rank one part of a couple as a "favor" to the PD in the other specialty at the same institution. As a PD in my past, I would never interview or rank an unqualified partner, but I would certainly consider interviewing and ranking someone who was just "fine" but nothing special and expect similar treatment from other programs in return. (Often, we knew so little about the middle of the pack of applicants anyway, so it was just as good a reason as any to invite someone).

In contrast, the medical school application system seems to ignore the couple completely. UPENN was the only secondary application I saw that gives a place for people to identify that they are applying as part of a couple, and this was in a section that allowed people to write in any unique circumstances.

Obviously, there are times when one applicant is much stronger than the other one in the couple - a strong Pediatrics applicant is matching with a weak ENT applicant,- and it can be very difficult to navigate the choices in these situations.