If you want to get into medical school, go to the easiest undergrad possible!

[Dr Tony T. Chopper]

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Was it by any chance a MID IVY?

Into the trash it goes.

Haha ok fine don't take my advice, but I'm telling you that I went to a top 10 school...

 

[Obnoxious Dad]

I don't know if the OP is a troll but his/her advice is rock solid. The people who tell pre-meds that they should go to some ridiculously expensive undergraduate college to compete with people who have stratospheric ACT/SAT scores are the real trolls. I was told by an admissions officer at a medical school that her office did absolutely nothing to normalize transcripts to account for the varying rigor of undergraduate colleges and majors. The fact is adcoms are lazy, stupid and cowardly.

Furthermore, there is no evidence that a highly rigorous undergraduate education will increase a student's MCAT score. I am sure that the MCAT scores at Ivy League colleges are higher than the MCAT scores of graduates of lower status colleges, but the Ivys' average ACT/SAT scores of entering freshmen are also much higher than the ACT/SAT averages at good old State U. If there is evidence that a more rigorous undergrad boosts MCAT scores, while controlling for undergrad SAT/ACT scores, please provide the link.

 

[Gastrapathy]

Really what you want is a school that makes it easy to get good grades. That is not necessarily state U. It was easier to get good grades at my "top 10 private school" than at a school like UCLA. What you can (and should) do is cherry pick some classes to take at a second tier state university when you "go home" for the summer. Physics, 2nd semester O-chem, etc.

 

[KatniP]

Yeah "retakes and DO" is always an option, but the point is it could have been a lot easier for me financially, emotionally, and taken a lot less time if I had just gone to an easier school instead of buying into this prestigious school idea.

Not to call you out, but is this prestigious school an Ivy or just a top ranked school? When you were getting low grades and going to lose your scholarships anyway, it didn't occur to you to transfer out? As a pre-med, were you not told that GPA and MCAT are two very important components of your application, even if schools review your app holistically? You had several years where you continued to spiral down further. It's good that you had a very high MCAT, but having a low GPA means that you couldn't handle the rigor of your school. My brother did poorly his first year of college (he does not go to an Ivy, but a popular school nonetheless), and my parents were already considering having him transfer out because they know a low GPA affects your job prospects as well.

 

[Krupke]

I don't know if the OP is a troll but his/her advice is rock solid. The people who tell pre-meds that they should go to some ridiculously expensive undergraduate college to compete with people who have stratospheric ACT/SAT scores are the real trolls. I was told by an admissions officer at a medical school that her office did absolutely nothing to normalize transcripts to account for the varying rigor of undergraduate colleges and majors. The fact is adcoms are lazy, stupid and cowardly.

Furthermore, there is no evidence that a highly rigorous undergraduate education will increase a student's MCAT score. I am sure that the MCAT scores at Ivy League colleges are higher than the MCAT scores of graduates of lower status colleges, but the Ivys' average ACT/SAT scores of entering freshmen are also much higher than the ACT/SAT averages at good old State U. If there is evidence that a more rigorous undergrad boosts MCAT scores, while controlling for undergrad SAT/ACT scores, please provide the link.

This gets said in every one these threads:
1) Top schools would be the cheapest option for the majority of Americans
2) Most people who start school as pre-meds have no idea what medicine is like and most do not stay pre-med. Top schools offer blatant advantages in every other field, so it would be unwise to choose a school based on the assumption that you will go to med school
3) Grades aren't normalized, but they are looked at with regards to where you went to school. 3.4-3.6s from my school consistantly get into the strong mid-tier schools. And people above 3.6 usually get into top 20s. And most 3.3 students get in somewhere. I doubt it is coincidental and not related to our alma mater.

 

[thatwouldbeanarchy]

Just because GPAs aren't somehow adjusted based on undergrad institution, doesn't mean that the institution isn't factored in.

Adcoms from private schools, at least, rated "selectivity of undergrad institution" as highly important - just after MCAT and GPA. (https://aamc-orange.global.ssl.fast...5b5844a/mcatstudentselectionguide.pdf#page=12)

Obviously, you don't need to go to a top UG to get into med school but I don't think I would go as far as to say that premeds at highly rigorous schools are at a disadvantage. I have no doubt that having certain school names on your transcript counts for something even if it doesn't always justify a low GPA.

 

[Citygirl44]

Not to call you out, but is this prestigious school an Ivy or just a top ranked school? When you were getting low grades and going to lose your scholarships anyway, it didn't occur to you to transfer out? As a pre-med, were you not told that GPA and MCAT are two very important components of your application, even if schools review your app holistically? You had several years where you continued to spiral down further. It's good that you had a very high MCAT, but having a low GPA means that you couldn't handle the rigor of your school. My brother did poorly his first year of college (he does not go to an Ivy, but a popular school nonetheless), and my parents were already considering having him transfer out because they know a low GPA affects your job prospects as well.

Problem is, it's hard to transfer out to a decent school once your GPA is low (after freshman year if you get a C and a few B's). So in a way you get " trapped" there and have to stick it out. I don't mean that being at a top school is a trap but believe me, I know the feeling when you're at a " top or Ivy school" getting B's and you go home and take sciences at your local 4 year school for the summer and not only are getting A's but the classes seem very easy. I hope adcoms take some considerations as to the difficulty of the school but it doesn't look like it.

 

[el_duderino]

So here's my advice for all future premeds: go to the easiest undergrad possible. I bought into the lie that going to some prestigious school would actually help me in securing a medical school acceptance. I went to some prestigious school loaded with scholarships and got horrible grades. I didn't leave, because I was loaded with scholarships going in and didn't want to give them up. I eventually lost them all as my grades dropped further down. I graduated with a 3 point nothing and now have no idea what I'm going to do with my life. Meanwhile, my friend from high school went to some college most people have never heard of and graduated with a 4.0 GPA. He's already been accepted into medical school and somehow got waived from taking his MCAT due to his inflated and excellent grades at his no name school. I had way higher grades/SAT scores than this guy in high school and actually have a very high MCAT score, but due to my low GPA I'll never set foot in a medical school and probably shuffle through low end jobs the rest of my life. Don't let this happen to you!

Getting a 3.0 undergrad GPA doesn't suggest that you have what it takes academically to succeed in medical school.

Going to an easier undergrad wouldn't have better prepared you for med school.

 

[Citygirl44]

Even though you may feel down about it, it doesn't have to be " the end " though. My mentor went to Columbia undergrad, had this issue that we are talking about, did a post bac at a state school for 1 year and then was accepted to Cornell for med school. ( of course this was 15 years ago , lol). But I mention it just to say , it can be done. But yes it may take a little longer.

 

[Lost in Translation]

I don't know if the OP is a troll but his/her advice is rock solid. The people who tell pre-meds that they should go to some ridiculously expensive undergraduate college to compete with people who have stratospheric ACT/SAT scores are the real trolls. I was told by an admissions officer at a medical school that her office did absolutely nothing to normalize transcripts to account for the varying rigor of undergraduate colleges and majors. The fact is adcoms are lazy, stupid and cowardly.

Those aren't the med schools OP would apply to, anyway.

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

I just still dont buy it that any reputable US med school would wave the MCAT outside of some sort of weird BS/MD program that OP has said his friend was not in

 

[TBV]

Not only should you go to an inexpensive unknown "easier" school, you should major in something like kinesiology that you don't even have to study for. Seriously, 3.9 was cake and tons of time for MCAT studying.

EDIT: also make sure your school does not do +/- grading this was a big help to the ol GPA

 

[breezy16]

Enjoy your Weepies.

Btw, "tough, prestigious, grade deflating school" is a popular euphemism for "didn't have my sheit together".


All hail streampaw. What is banned cannot be banned.

This. Smaller "no-name" schools do not always equate to lesser quality. Lesser resources / NIH funding? Absolutely, but there was still ample research opps and professors found ways to get external grants to have everything covered. I went to a well known top 100 for undergrad, with a very tedious/time consuming/grade deflating major (top 20 for my major), and basically a no name for post-bacc.. Felt the post-bacc had a greater level of difficulty compared to my UG (in sciences, particularly). Why? Smaller classes, greater number in-depth concepts able to be covered, and higher expectations. The school also was much more oriented in creating stellar PhD candidates, not premeds. You're no longer 1 in 100/200/500 (This applies to upper division courses, as well. 1-10 versus 1-30) and you're pushed. However, this is a N=1 situation, may not be similar for other people/institutions.

The material is the same on the MCAT for everyone; bust a** on that. Bust a** in class. Being lazy in a top 10/ivy or being lazy in a top 1000 creates the same outcome; crap grades and a crap candidate in that instance. Only option at that point is to start recreating yourself to overcome your complacency in UG.

 

[Citygirl44]

When / if I have children , I will definitely give them different advice than what I was given. They can even start at a community college and then transfer to a four year school. That way I get to save money and " weed out" the kids that are not really serious about school. And if they don't like college, they don't have to go. Learn to fix heating and air conditioning instead. They make good money. College is not everything. If I sound bitter, sorry, just venting. Lol.

 

[WingedOx]

SummonEfleMagicTheGatheringCard.jpg

 

[Cookie04]

When / if I have children , I will definitely give them different advice than what I was given. They can even start at a community college and then transfer to a four year school. That way I get to save money and " weed out" the kids that are not really serious about school. And if they don't like college, they don't have to go. Learn to fix heating and air conditioning instead. They make good money. College is not everything. If I sound bitter, sorry, just venting. Lol.

Lol yessss! Exactly the advice I was given!

 

[oldbearprofessor]

The fact is adcoms are lazy, stupid and cowardly.

Awww.... I love you too. We also smell bad and dress funny. Most of us are not lazy however. Except for the dean, most members do it for completely free or virtually free. I assure you that my weekend time interviewing is not being compensated in any way...

 

[El-Rami]

I went to a "no name" satellite of a state U institution for undergrad. The basic sciences were rigorous, and I believe that definitely helped me on the MCAT (~90+ percentile scorer in hard sciences on MCAT). I wouldn't go so far as to say that the easiest institution possible is a good idea because you'll end up having to work harder to prepare for the MCAT. You want to be able to succeed in medical school, so you may find a rude awakening if your undergrad was a complete joke.

That said, I personally only see diminishing returns when applying to "top" undergrad institutions when medical school is your goal. Unless you get great scholarships, you'll pay more in tuition than if you went to a state school. An average Ivy League student may also get a 4.0 or very close to it at "less prestigious" schools as well because the competition is different. In the end, MCAT and GPA will outweigh university prestige.

 

[Annabell Lee]

I just still dont buy it that any reputable US med school would wave the MCAT outside of some sort of weird BS/MD program that OP has said his friend was not in

My doctor is from Ohio. I don't know if they still do this, but he told me he didn't have to take the MCAT because the school waved it with IS applicants with a certain GPA and ACT score. This wasn't a BS/MD thing either.

 

[piii]

$10 says that if OP went to the less prestigious "weenie hut junior state college" he would have still gotten a 3.0

 

[abcdeffedcba]

Whether or not OP is a troll, I see where OP is coming from. Sounds like OP came from a disadvantaged background and had probably never been in the academically rigorous and competitive environment like the "top 10" uni that OP is at right now. Furthermore, at these institutions, there are additional pressures to conform and to be on the same level as other "geniuses." Doing well in classes, completing homework, became a chore. Always getting results that are average or below average--not because OP is not smart, but because OP didn't know how to study, or how to go to office hours, or how to get the help that OP need, or even have the resources to get the help that OP needs--can be extremely discouraging and can lead to a downward spiral.

As someone who have been in OP's shoes, I can attest that it is very difficult, sometime much more difficult, to go through the medical school application process if you come from a disadvantaged background in any sort of way and if you go to a top university that is far from your usual support system. Luckily for me, I had mentors, family, and friends from home and school that helped me overcome the obstacles of undergrad.

If you're even more curious, consider reading this article on the doubly disadvantaged: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/13/opinion/sunday/what-the-privileged-poor-can-teach-us.html

 

[WingedOx]

Seriously. Any school with a 6 or 7 year BS/MD program is certainly not no-name. Though I think OP's friend went to a pre-med factory (like Haverford or Tufts) and that's why OP hasn't heard of them.

Eh, there are a few "obscure" undergrads with BS/MD programs through agreements with other medical schools. Drexel had one with Ursinus IIRC.
Plus there are pre-med factories WAY farther down the US News rankings than Haverford or Tufts. I'd challenge SDN posters to have heard of my undergrad unless they're really into obscure D3 football trivia.

 

[WingedOx]

$10 says that if OP went to the less prestigious "weenie hut junior state college" he would have still gotten a 3.0

Yeah, there are certainly different levels of difficulty at varying undergrads, but too often these discussions revolve around the cognitive dissonance of the high school salutatorian not being able to accept that "this ain't high school anymore" and "that slacker kid from my HS class at Directional State may actually be smarter than me"

 

[Citygirl44]

Whether or not OP is a troll, I see where OP is coming from. Sounds like OP came from a disadvantaged background and had probably never been in the academically rigorous and competitive environment like the "top 10" uni that OP is at right now. Furthermore, at these institutions, there are additional pressures to conform and to be on the same level as other "geniuses." Doing well in classes, completing homework, became a chore. Always getting results that are average or below average--not because OP is not smart, but because OP didn't know how to study, or how to go to office hours, or how to get the help that OP need, or even have the resources to get the help that OP needs--can be extremely discouraging and can lead to a downward spiral.

As someone who have been in OP's shoes, I can attest that it is very difficult, sometime much more difficult, to go through the medical school application process if you come from a disadvantaged background in any sort of way and if you go to a top university that is far from your usual support system. Luckily for me, I had mentors, family, and friends from home and school that helped me overcome the obstacles of undergrad.

If you're even more curious, consider reading this article on the doubly disadvantaged: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/13/opinion/sunday/what-the-privileged-poor-can-teach-us.html

Good article. I agree

 

[deleted647690]

Wouldn't it hurt your app greatly if you performed poorly and then immediately transferred to a lesser known school? I feel like an adcomm would see that and think, "This kid couldn't get his **** together, he'll never make it in med school"?
I guess unless the reason for doing poorly was not academically related

 

[banthapug]

If your end goal in life is to get into medical school, sure - go to an "easy" institution. So many people think going to medical school or becoming a doctor is the end goal of their life. Life is so much more than that. It is about the experiences you have along the way. You should choose your undergraduate institution based on what makes sense to you - socially, geographically, financially, etc - to maximize the depth and breath of experience you are going to get. OP, I don't know you or your friend but I doubt the only difference between you two were the undergrad institution you went to. It does nothing to blame others in life, it doesn't accomplish anything.

 

[j387780]

Someone at my university had a 3.0 GPA. She went and did a 1 year masters program and was accepted to a DO program. There is still hope.

 

[Govols22]

There are some instances where it may be wiser to go to a less prestigious school.

For example college 1 is ranked between 50 and 70 on USNEWs
And is University of "X"

And college 2 is ranked 150+ and is "X" State University

Both are public state schools, but one is ranked higher than the other, although I wouldn't call college 1 "Elite".

College 1 is known to have an awful Science department, primarily because many of their professors have no interest in teaching, and are much more focused on personal research. It's your typical.... "Here's the book. See you in three weeks. Have fun".... kind of deal. And the Test were known to be much harder than they should be. The test averages were well below passing.

College 2 doesn't have the resources and research opportunities as college 1, but they have professors that take teaching relatively seriously (in comparison to college 1 at least) and the majority of tests are primarily based off what is gone over in class, making studying much more manageable and predictable. The test were fair. The test averages ranged from 55 to 75 depending on the class or teacher.

All in all, both schools were taught practically the same material, and have given their students the fundamental knowledge in the sciences to compete in the MCAT, given they study hard enough on their own.

Realistically, if one was choosing between these two schools, they would have to acknowledge that getting a higher GPA in college 2 is much more manageable than college 1. IMO, the difference in potential stress and possible GPA points is enough to suck up your pride and choose college 2. But obviously there is much more to consider in deciding schools than this alone. If someone enjoys the campus, embraces the resources and opportunies, etc, then trust your guts.

All in all, people put too much emphasis into their undergrad and major coming out of high school. Many think going to the most prestigious undergrad and majoring in the hardest thing will actually help their application. If you want to go to MIT or Georgia Tech and major in Biomedical Engineering, then go for it. But it only looks good "IF" you do well. Just my opinion.

 

[Goro]

Here are two ways of looking at this:

One: your high caliber school did you a favor and prevented you from getting into medical school, where you would have accrued some $100-200K of debt and then failed out, because medical is harder than any UG program you could have taken (at a minimum, in terms of sheer volume of material only). But med school is more than mere brute memory...you have to apply that memory as well. So I'd like to know why you magically think that if you had gone to an "easy" school, that you'd survive medical school (see bold below)?


The other approach is to focus on fixing your deficits, and proving to Adcoms that you can handle a rigorous medical school curriculum. You've been given excellent advice on how to do that.

Now you to accept that this process is a marathon, not a sprint, and that it's going to take some time to become a competitive candidate. Work, save up your money, and then do grade replacement and ace the MCAT, and aim for DO schools.

Or go for the SMP, ace that, and ace MCAT as well....then MD schools will be doable.

Yes like I said I know that's an option, but I'm just saying that now I have to go back to school with hardly any money left, after being emotionally drained by many sleepless nights to get a 3 point nothing GPA and it's going to take me at least a year or two to bring my GPA up just for a low chance of getting into a DO school when I could have done what my friend did instead and have been a happy med school student right now.

The issue is believing a med school would wave the MCAT for a 4.0 GPA, no matter what school it was earned at.

I don't really know why you guys are calling this a troll, etc.

Are you really denying the fact that undergrads are vastly different in terms of competitiveness?

If one student would perform way differently at different tiers of undergrads it follows that at a certain point, he/she is negatively impacting or even destroying his/her medical school chances since admissions care so much about GPA.

 

[MachoDOAndySavage]

My doctor is from Ohio. I don't know if they still do this, but he told me he didn't have to take the MCAT because the school waved it with IS applicants with a certain GPA and ACT score. This wasn't a BS/MD thing either.

I know that a few schools in ohio like neomed and OU-HCOM have programs for this, and they're also starting to give conditional admittance to people right out of highschool. But that may just be in Ohio

 

[Krupke]

Whether or not OP is a troll, I see where OP is coming from. Sounds like OP came from a disadvantaged background and had probably never been in the academically rigorous and competitive environment like the "top 10" uni that OP is at right now. Furthermore, at these institutions, there are additional pressures to conform and to be on the same level as other "geniuses." Doing well in classes, completing homework, became a chore. Always getting results that are average or below average--not because OP is not smart, but because OP didn't know how to study, or how to go to office hours, or how to get the help that OP need, or even have the resources to get the help that OP needs--can be extremely discouraging and can lead to a downward spiral.

As someone who have been in OP's shoes, I can attest that it is very difficult, sometime much more difficult, to go through the medical school application process if you come from a disadvantaged background in any sort of way and if you go to a top university that is far from your usual support system. Luckily for me, I had mentors, family, and friends from home and school that helped me overcome the obstacles of undergrad.

If you're even more curious, consider reading this article on the doubly disadvantaged: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/13/opinion/sunday/what-the-privileged-poor-can-teach-us.html

I can definitely sympathize. I was one of those work study students who showed up on campus in ripped Old Navy hoodies and then worked double the hours I needed to so that by senior year I was known for being a great dresser. I know what it's like to start behind the curve and feel out of place, but there does come a point where you need to figure out what is right for you. You can't just fold; you adapt and learn.

But it doesn't actually sound to me like the OP was disadvantaged because I don't think it is easy to lose financial aid at most schools. Like at my school you only lose financial aid if you don't complete the equivalent of 70% of the credits needed to be part-time. It sounds like OP had a scholarship that required over a 3.0 gpa and didn't manage that

 

[WingedOx]

I was one of those work study students who showed up on campus in ripped Old Navy hoodies and then worked double the hours I needed to so that by senior year I was known for being a great dresser.

If not wearing ripped old hoodies is a yardstick of accomplishment, I've clearly not done well in life. 🙁

 

[efle]

My advice to all high schoolers is still to go to the best school that you can afford

Really depends on the school in question. I know I will always advise some extreme caution before heading off to Hopkins, Chicago et al, because even if you are in that minority that can survive you're gonna have a rough time. But for some place that takes great care of its premeds like Brown, would second your advice in a heartbeat.

Are you really denying the fact that undergrads are vastly different in terms of competitiveness?

If one student would perform way differently at different tiers of undergrads it follows that at a certain point, he/she is negatively impacting or even destroying his/her medical school chances since admissions care so much about GPA.

I too was surprised by SDN, many (perhaps even most) posters when I first became active here did argue all universities are comparable, and that the kid struggling to make a 3.3 at MIT would still have B+ grades at his state school system. You're right about the net negative impact though, unless you're in that top couple deciles you would have been better off elsewhere. At least in my experience, weedout really is weedout, with most people dropping because they can't get A's rather than because they decide medicine isn't for them.

I really wish this was something more on high schooler's radar when choosing colleges. At the handful of most intense schools, the majority of premed hopefuls are making a mistake by matriculating there. For some it's going to only have some minor consequence, like being competitive only for their state MD school instead of fancy private names, while for others it's going to mean year(s) of grade repair or cost them their shot at MD altogether. Grade repair is a huge help for people happy to go DO, but it's not easy to repair a GPA that is low because of many B and B- grades (rather than from a few C/C- or fail grades).

Yes, everyone should save themselves some stress by going to the easiest which tends to be also the cheapest school they can.

As someone else already said, the cheapest option for many is actually the fancy famous private name. My .02 is that scholarship to a solid LAC or a state school with an honors college system is the best option.

the fewer pre-meds your school produces, the bigger the boost

What? Why? Having a name like Hopkins, Duke, or Harvard on your app is not a reduced boost for sending off a lot of medical applicants. If anything, your school being well known as a premed powerhouse is going to help.

I was told by an admissions officer at a medical school that her office did absolutely nothing to normalize transcripts to account for the varying rigor of undergraduate colleges and majors. The fact is adcoms are lazy, stupid and cowardly.

There isn't a literal +x.x to GPA, but there is consideration of alma mater for private med schools. Which is unfortunate to the people with low 3's from a famous undergrad, since most of the med schools with accessible stats are public schools that won't care at all about their college.

It's not as if the numbers they publish will get normalized. Even if it's a private school that considers alma maters, and they realize a 3.55 at Cornell demonstrates as much academic ability as a 3.85 at UC Santa Cruz, they all love themselves high numbers and aren't going to fill their class with mid 3's GPAs.

It was easier to get good grades at my "top 10 private school" than at a school like UCLA. What you can (and should) do is cherry pick some classes to take at a second tier state university when you "go home" for the summer. Physics, 2nd semester O-chem, etc.

Not really fair game to compare to UCLA or Cal though, is it, since many of the students there are the same caliber you'd see at a private top 20. I'd have to hazard a guess that adcoms will take note of people who dodge stuff like Ochem or Biochem at their own college.

Getting a 3.0 undergrad GPA doesn't suggest that you have what it takes academically to succeed in medical school.

Well, even people with a 3.0 and 30 have less than a 2% rate of academic withdrawal/dismissal from med school. Hell even the 2.9 / 22 bin made it through more than 95% of the time. The bars for admission are set much, much, much higher than they need to be in that regard, if I was a betting man I'd put quite a lot on a student with a 3.0 from a tough undergrad being able to academically survive in med school.

SummonEfleMagicTheGatheringCard.jpg

Nerd.

 

[Lucca]

Really depends on the school in question. I know I will always advise some extreme caution before heading off to Hopkins, Chicago et al, because even if you are in that minority that can survive you're gonna have a rough time. But for some place that takes great care of its premeds like Brown, would second your advice in a heartbeat.



I too was surprised by SDN, many (perhaps even most) posters when I first became active here did argue all universities are comparable, and that the kid struggling to make a 3.3 at MIT would still have B+ grades at his state school system. You're right about the net negative impact though, unless you're in that top couple deciles you would have been better off elsewhere. At least in my experience, weedout really is weedout, with most people dropping because they can't get A's rather than because they decide medicine isn't for them.

I really wish this was something more on high schooler's radar when choosing colleges. At the handful of most intense schools, the majority of premed hopefuls are making a mistake by matriculating there. For some it's going to only have some minor consequence, like being competitive only for their state MD school instead of fancy private names, while for others it's going to mean year(s) of grade repair or cost them their shot at MD altogether. Grade repair is a huge help for people happy to go DO, but it's not easy to repair a GPA that is low because of many B and B- grades (rather than from a few C/C- or fail grades).



As someone else already said, the cheapest option for many is actually the fancy famous private name. My .02 is that scholarship to a solid LAC or a state school with an honors college system is the best option.



What? Why? Having a name like Hopkins, Duke, or Harvard on your app is not a reduced boost for sending off a lot of medical applicants. If anything, your school being well known as a premed powerhouse is going to help.



There isn't a literal +x.x to GPA, but there is consideration of alma mater for private med schools. Which is unfortunate to the people with low 3's from a famous undergrad, since most of the med schools with accessible stats are public schools that won't care at all about their college.

It's not as if the numbers they publish will get normalized. Even if it's a private school that considers alma maters, and they realize a 3.55 at Cornell demonstrates as much academic ability as a 3.85 at UC Santa Cruz, they all love themselves high numbers and aren't going to fill their class with mid 3's GPAs.



Not really fair game to compare to UCLA or Cal though, is it, since many of the students there are the same caliber you'd see at a private top 20. I'd have to hazard a guess that adcoms will take note of people who dodge stuff like Ochem or Biochem at their own college.


Well, even people with a 3.0 and 30 have less than a 2% rate of academic withdrawal/dismissal from med school. Hell even the 2.9 / 22 bin made it through more than 95% of the time. The bars for admission are set much, much, much higher than they need to be in that regard, if I was a betting man I'd put quite a lot on a student with a 3.0 from a tough undergrad being able to academically survive in med school.


Nerd.

Yah I agree, but those schools are few and far between. If someone is dead set on becoming a scientist I will tell them to go to MIT or CalTech or Berkeley in a heartbeat. Pesonally, UChicago was one of my favorites when I was applying to undergrad and it will probably continue to be one when I apply to medical school. It depends on the school and the student's priorities. Some people have no interest at all in medicine and it is really the only profession that cares an inordinate amount about grades and test scores, Law as well to a slightly lesser extent. In other fields, students from those schools are well represented.

 

[Oh_Gee]

Have you seen her blog? UG level abnormal psych classes should use it as a case study.

WHAT BLOG

 

[Lucca]

WHAT BLOG

http://streampaw.blogspot.com/

"Against all odds".

Apparently she's happy now? I guess that's a win

 

[Brorthopedic]

I don't think OP is lying or trolling, I think he is just frustrated with the realities of life.

There is some truth behind his post. I majored in one of, if not the hardest, medical-orientated majors at a big university thinking it would help. The only difference it made was slightly lessening the difficulty of my first year in medical school. If I had to do it all over again, I would have went to a community/state college to save money, took all the prerequisite medical school courses that are required there, transfer to a university and major in Philosophy, crush the MCAT, and graduate with a 4.0

 

[Mad Jack]

Google.

Edit: just a couple more recent posts on Streampaw's blog. Apparently he/she/it thinks they're gonna strike it rich by making dumb apps now. Why yes, I would love to call a stranger (which I can't do BC there aren't any users)!

Oh look, she just remade Omeggle/Chatroulette, but with no potential for user base because good sites for that already exist.

Anyway, I do agree with the premise that if you're gunning for medical school, go the easiest route possible, be it easier major, easier school (and not all state schools are easy- some are probably even worse than the top schools because their premed courses are designed to weed people out, not make them succeed), or whatever. Undergrad should be about having fun while also making opportunities for yourself, not making yourself suffer needlessly to build up a knowledge base and group of skills that you'll never use after you get admitted to medical school.

 

[deleted407021]

That distant boom ... was it a thunderclap?

Or, perhaps ? ...

The BanHammer. Has come.

 

[Lawpy]

That distant boom ... was it a thunderclap?

Or, perhaps ? ...

The BanHammer. Has come.

Feels good man. Feels good.

 

[Krupke]

What? Why? Having a name like Hopkins, Duke, or Harvard on your app is not a reduced boost for sending off a lot of medical applicants. If anything, your school being well known as a premed powerhouse is going to help.

What I meant was that my school, for example, doesn't have too many more students applying to med school each year than there are med schools. Looking at my school's application info, it seems that mostly all MD schools accept at least 1 student from my school each year. I think there would be more 3.3sGPA candidates from a school like JHU that has a lot of pre-meds, so they are less likely to be the one selected by schools that like to take up lower-GPA top schools students than a 3.3 person from my school. In effect, a student with a 3.3 from my school will likely fare better than a 3.3 from a top schools with a lot more pre-meds applying. I know it doesn't work exactly like that because med school don't have top school quotas, but I do think a 3.3 from a less-represented top school has a greater "purchasing power" than a 3.3 that produces many med school applicants

 

[Nietzschelover]

I don't think OP is lying or trolling, I think he is just frustrated with the realities of life.

There is some truth behind his post. I majored in one of, if not the hardest, medical-orientated majors at a big university thinking it would help. The only difference it made was slightly lessening the difficulty of my first year in medical school. If I had to do it all over again, I would have went to a community/state college to save money, took all the prerequisite medical school courses that are required there, transfer to a university and major in Philosophy, crush the MCAT, and graduate with a 4.0

It's unlikely to get a 4.0 majoring in philosophy.

 

[efle]

What I meant was that my school, for example, doesn't have too many more students applying to med school each year than there are med schools. Looking at my school's application info, it seems that mostly all MD schools accept at least 1 student from my school each year. I think there would be more 3.3sGPA candidates from a school like JHU that has a lot of pre-meds, so they are less likely to be the one selected by schools that like to take up lower-GPA top schools students than a 3.3 person from my school. In effect, a student with a 3.3 from my school will likely fare better than a 3.3 from a top schools with a lot more pre-meds applying. I know it doesn't work exactly like that because med school don't have top school quotas, but I do think a 3.3 from a less-represented top school has a greater "purchasing power" than a 3.3 that produces many med school applicants

Sounds pretty bogus dude, med schools aren't on a mission to collect 'em all. Eg I don't think the kids from Dartmouth are getting any boost over Penn for being fewer in number.

It's unlikely to get a 4.0 majoring in philosophy.

+1 humanities are usually kinder to the average student, but consistently writing papers that will impress different professors is a much trickier challenge than consistently understanding science coursework.

 

[Brorthopedic]

It's unlikely to get a 4.0 majoring in philosophy.

That still doesn't defeat the purpose of my post

 

[Lost in Translation]

SummonEfleMagicTheGatheringCard.jpg

Gotta tap a Legendary Land - Harvard for that.

 

[Krupke]

Sounds pretty bogus dude, med schools aren't on a mission to collect 'em all. Eg I don't think the kids from Dartmouth are getting any boost over Penn for being fewer in number.


+1 humanities are usually kinder to the average student, but consistently writing papers that will impress different professors is a much trickier challenge than consistently understanding science coursework.

I'm not saying a boost over. I'm saying that there are a limited number of schools who regularly go for 3.3 top students. If you have 20 Duke 3.3s, you're not going to interview them all. But if there is 1 MIT 3.3, there is a good shot that you will get a chance to intervieww

I'm basing this in part on the fact that I got an interview at every single school that regularly interviews applicants from my school with my gpa. That includes multiple OOS public schools that interview less than 4% of OOS applicants in areas in which I have zero connections. Honestly, it doesn't even matter if I'm right or wrong. It was just an observation that no one is going to take to heart when they choose an undergrad- I was just explaining what i meant by it

Edit: And I dont mean for it to sound like "oh, we have a harvard so now we need a Princeton," it's more "we already have a 3.3 Harvard, so we don't need more."

 

[efle]

I'm not saying a boost over. I'm saying that there are a limited number of schools who regularly go for 3.3 top students. If you have 20 Duke 3.3s, you're not going to interview them all. But if there is 1 MIT 3.3, there is a good shot that you will get a chance to intervieww

I'm basing this in part on the fact that I got an interview at every single school that regularly interviews applicants from my school with my gpa. That includes multiple OOS public schools that interview less than 4% of OOS applicants in areas in which I have zero connections. Honestly, it doesn't even matter if I'm right or wrong. It was just an observation that no one is going to take to heart when they choose an undergrad- I was just explaining what i meant by it

And I'm saying I don't think admissions stratify their applicants by alma mater like that. If they stratify what a reviewer sees it is going to be by stats (how gyngyn's school works) or maybe time of completion. The guy looking at App X and Y, who happen to be coming from Duke and MIT respectively, won't consider (or even know) how many other Duke and MIT apps are floating around that cycle.

Those schools likely also interview the students from peer institutions with similar numbers, however many that may be. I doubt anything we say here would impact any matriculation decisions, I just like to debate this kind of stuff.

 

[Krupke]

And I'm saying I don't think admissions stratify their applicants by alma mater like that. If they stratify what a reviewer sees it is going to be by stats (how gyngyn's school works) or maybe time of completion. The guy looking at App X and Y, who happen to be coming from Duke and MIT respectively, won't consider (or even know) how many other Duke and MIT apps are floating around that cycle.

Those schools likely also interview the students from peer institutions with similar numbers, however many that may be. I doubt anything we say here would impact any matriculation decisions, I just like to debate this kind of stuff.

Okay, you definitely make a good point in the first paragraph, but do you think alma mater comes into play when making the final selection post-interview in order to prevent having too many from the same school?

 

[WedgeDawg]

Okay, you definitely make a good point in the first paragraph, but do you think alma mater comes into play when making the final selection post-interview in order to prevent having too many from the same school?

Given the number of people from Harvard at my school, I'm going to say no

 

[Med Ed]

I was told by an admissions officer at a medical school that her office did absolutely nothing to normalize transcripts to account for the varying rigor of undergraduate colleges and majors.

I would hate for our admissions office to attempt such a thing. Much better, I think, to have the adcom consider each interviewee's academic record individually, and in context, than have someone with a Masters degree applying an arbitrary formula.

The fact is adcoms are lazy, stupid and cowardly.

True to some extent; we are human, after all. But the fact remains that we have medical schools and you don't. 😛