If you want to get into medical school, go to the easiest undergrad possible!

[Krupke]

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Given the number of people from Harvard at my school, I'm going to say no

Don't you go to a top school though? The people going to your school from Harvard don't need a huge boost and the Harvard people won't be bringing down your school's average. I'm talking more about schools like Drexel, Albany, Rosalind, NYMC, Quinnipiac, some state schools, etc who take up low-GPA top school students and then to a lesser degree, the mid-tiers as you move up the ladder. Generally the lower- ranked the school is (except for mission-based schools) the more of a boost going to a top school nets you. But these schools aren't going to accept every 3.3 top school student and I think they would take into consideration the fact that they dont want all their top students to come from the same schoolsat that point

Edit:"Medical students are especially selected from the Ivy League, top colleges and universities across the country and the first-year class typically arrives with an average composite MCAT score of 32 and an average GPA of3.6." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Medical_College
I also always loved how NYMC's wiki page straight up says that they are looking for top school students

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

http://streampaw.blogspot.com/

"Against all odds".

Apparently she's happy now? I guess that's a win

Streampaw the Hellraiser

 

[ditritium monoxide]

I don't think OP is lying or trolling, I think he is just frustrated with the realities of life.

There is some truth behind his post. I majored in one of, if not the hardest, medical-orientated majors at a big university thinking it would help. The only difference it made was slightly lessening the difficulty of my first year in medical school. If I had to do it all over again, I would have went to a community/state college to save money, took all the prerequisite medical school courses that are required there, transfer to a university and major in Philosophy, crush the MCAT, and graduate with a 4.0

Hopkins BME?

 

[Nietzschelover]

That still doesn't defeat the purpose of my post

I should have been a little more specific. Humanities in general is one thing, and taking a couple of intro level philosophy classes is one thing (although it's really easy to struggle to get a B+ in some of those), but actually majoring in philosophy pits you against some of the smartest (albeit at times eccentrically so) kids in your college. I majored in philosophy and was competing with an eventual Rhodes scholar (went to Harvard Law) and a couple of other kids who went on to earn Ph.D.s in philosophy. I remember a philosophy of language class where I was reading a book called The Meaning of Meaning. I read the first few paragraphs about fifty times and was almost suicidal because I couldn't understand a word of it, there were 500 pages to go, and I had to write a paper....Noam Chomsky type of stuff. Or try Symbolic Logic with a really tough professor. Very easy for very smart students to rack up a lot of Bs, B+s, and A-s.

 

[Krupke]

I should have been a little more specific. Humanities in general is one thing, and taking a couple of intro level philosophy classes is one thing (although it's really easy to struggle to get a B+ in some of those), but actually majoring in philosophy pits you against some of the smartest (albeit at times eccentrically so) kids in your college. I majored in philosophy and was competing with an eventual Rhodes scholar (went to Harvard Law) and a couple of other kids who went on to earn Ph.D.s in philosophy. I remember a philosophy of language class where I was reading a book called The Meaning of Meaning. I read the first few paragraphs about fifty times and was almost suicidal because I couldn't understand a word of it, there were 500 pages to go, and I had to write a paper....Noam Chomsky type of stuff. Or try Symbolic Logic with a really tough professor. Very easy for very smart students to rack up a lot of Bs, B+s, and A-s.

I took a philosophy class from a professor from Germany. He graded us on a German scale where a D is satisfactory, C is good, B is great, A is excellent. That was the end of philosophy for me, haha

 

[Mad Jack]

Not only should you go to an inexpensive unknown "easier" school, you should major in something like kinesiology that you don't even have to study for. Seriously, 3.9 was cake and tons of time for MCAT studying.

EDIT: also make sure your school does not do +/- grading this was a big help to the ol GPA

No +/- can hurt, depending on how they slice it, since a small slip will land you a full point drop from an A to a B.

 

[efle]

No +/- can hurt, depending on how they slice it, since a small slip will land you a full point drop from an A to a B.

I'd guess for the typical tryhard gunner there are a lot more low 90s than high 80s grades though!

 

[Summerlax2016]

Just because a school isn't well known, doesn't mean that you are guaranteed a higher GPA. I got to a smaller university in northeast PA, and our bio department actively tries to deflate the grades. There are no curves in any of the classes,

Okay, you definitely make a good point in the first paragraph, but do you think alma mater comes into play when making the final selection post-interview in order to prevent having too many from the same school?

No idea about medical school, but I know it was an issue with my high school. I went to a top 10 nationally ranked high school, and we have 12 kids apply to U. Penn, 5 got in, the other 7 all got into other ivies, but one of them was told that the fact that so many applied from the same high school hurt their chances

 

[efle]

I took a philosophy class from a professor from Germany. He graded us on a German scale where a D is satisfactory, C is good, B is great, A is excellent. That was the end of philosophy for me, haha

Had a few friends experience classes like this during semester abroad. Our school only records pass/fail (thank God) but everyone was freaking out about how they were barely passing because most people even with a decent effort get Cs. Very different system for them since there is no college -> MD process, getting straight Cs and retaking classes is considered totally normal.

 

[efle]

Just because a school isn't well known, doesn't mean that you are guaranteed a higher GPA. I got to a smaller university in northeast PA, and our bio department actively tries to deflate the grades. There are no curves in any of the classes,

No idea about medical school, but I know it was an issue with my high school. I went to a top 10 nationally ranked high school, and we have 12 kids apply to U. Penn, 5 got in, the other 7 all got into other ivies, but one of them was told that the fact that so many applied from the same high school hurt their chances

The change in student body competitiveness greatly offsets the deflation though. Of course you can also land yourself up against both if you go somewhere like Cal, UCLA, Michigan, UVa etc

Do they seriously ****ing rank high schools now?

 

[WedgeDawg]

Do they seriously ****ing rank high schools now?

Yeah but no one who isn't a freshman in college or earlier cares

 

[Lucca]

I should have been a little more specific. Humanities in general is one thing, and taking a couple of intro level philosophy classes is one thing (although it's really easy to struggle to get a B+ in some of those), but actually majoring in philosophy pits you against some of the smartest (albeit at times eccentrically so) kids in your college. I majored in philosophy and was competing with an eventual Rhodes scholar (went to Harvard Law) and a couple of other kids who went on to earn Ph.D.s in philosophy. I remember a philosophy of language class where I was reading a book called The Meaning of Meaning. I read the first few paragraphs about fifty times and was almost suicidal because I couldn't understand a word of it, there were 500 pages to go, and I had to write a paper....Noam Chomsky type of stuff. Or try Symbolic Logic with a really tough professor. Very easy for very smart students to rack up a lot of Bs, B+s, and A-s.

I study Philosophy and I approve this message. Getting assigned 1 chapter of reading like "EZ game EZ lyfe" and then spending 2 hours trying to read 10 pages lol.

 

[efle]

Yeah but no one who isn't a freshman in college or earlier cares

TIL I went to a Top 100 high school. Academic Readiness 921 (wtf does that mean???) oh yeah baby. What do you think sounds better for my resume, Top 100 nationally or Top 15 in California? But seriously what is even the point of this. It's only public schools so no drumming up business for private academies. It might be a sort of useful tool for a parent trying to figure out which high school their 14 year old should attend, but outside of that I can't figure what justifies the effort on US News behalf.

 

[Nietzschelover]

I study Philosophy and I approve this message. Getting assigned 1 chapter of reading like "EZ game EZ lyfe" and then spending 2 hours trying to read 10 pages lol.

LOL, I just googled The Meaning of Meaning and had a trauma experience 35 years later. I did get through Being and Time (Heidegger) in graduate philosophy in a 5-person class where we read 4-5 pages a week over two semesters.

 

[Lucca]

LOL, I just googled The Meaning of Meaning and had a trauma experience 35 years later. I did get through Being and Time (Heidegger) in graduate philosophy in a 5-person class where we read 4-5 pages a week over two semesters.

I have a theory that philosophy departments nationwide are funded by liquor companies.

 

[Brorthopedic]

I should have been a little more specific. Humanities in general is one thing, and taking a couple of intro level philosophy classes is one thing (although it's really easy to struggle to get a B+ in some of those), but actually majoring in philosophy pits you against some of the smartest (albeit at times eccentrically so) kids in your college. I majored in philosophy and was competing with an eventual Rhodes scholar (went to Harvard Law) and a couple of other kids who went on to earn Ph.D.s in philosophy. I remember a philosophy of language class where I was reading a book called The Meaning of Meaning. I read the first few paragraphs about fifty times and was almost suicidal because I couldn't understand a word of it, there were 500 pages to go, and I had to write a paper....Noam Chomsky type of stuff. Or try Symbolic Logic with a really tough professor. Very easy for very smart students to rack up a lot of Bs, B+s, and A-s.

My choice to use philosophy as an example was a poor one. Although there was an underlying bias as to why I chose it (in regards to its difficulty as a major) it was the first subject that came to mind due to my genuine interest in the field. My apologies.

 

[Summerlax2016]

Had a few friends experience classes like this during semester abroad. Our school only records pass/fail (thank God) but everyone was freaking out about how they were barely passing because most people even with a decent effort get Cs. Very different system for them since there is no college -> MD process, getting straight Cs and retaking classes is considered totally normal.

Trust me, when my classmates and I found out what the ranking of our school was we laughed and thought it was a joke. Yeah I was prepared for college, but it was just high school. Some kids loved it, and bragged about how great it was, some of us just couldn't wait to get out.

It was competitive enough that teachers would tell us to not discuss college applications because if enough kids from the school applied it would hurt your chances of getting in. Friendships were ruined... many of my friends cried over getting sub 2200 SAT's but still breaking 2000

 

[efle]

Trust me, when my classmates and I found out what the ranking of our school was we laughed and thought it was a joke. Yeah I was prepared for college, but it was just high school. Some kids loved it, and bragged about how great it was, some of us just couldn't wait to get out.

It was competitive enough that teachers would tell us to not discuss college applications because if enough kids from the school applied it would hurt your chances of getting in. Friendships were ruined... many of my friends cried over getting sub 2200 SAT's but still breaking 2000

Yeah I saw a lot of tears in classes when the Ivy rejection emails went out. High schoolers identify so much with grades, test scores, rankings. I'm glad I didn't have a tiger parent, that's a time when your priorities should be girls, sports, video games, and girls.

 

[Govols22]

Yeah I saw a lot of tears in classes when the Ivy rejection emails went out. High schoolers identify so much with grades, test scores, rankings. I'm glad I didn't have a tiger parent, that's a time when your priorities should be girls, sports, video games, and girls.

It's a shame how ridiculously competitive high school can be for some kids. Coming from someone who went to the top public school in the state of "X", I will never forget the blood sweat and tears some people put themselves through. It simply wasn't worth it.

It seemed like there were kids who paid more for after school tutoring programs than college itself.

 

[Turkishking]

Yeah I saw a lot of tears in classes when the Ivy rejection emails went out. High schoolers identify so much with grades, test scores, rankings. I'm glad I didn't have a tiger parent, that's a time when your priorities should be girls, sports, video games, and girls.

I agree. Even though I never mastered the art of poon.

 

[NotAnotherPreMed]

Hopkins BME?

Lol I'm Hopkins BME. I'd say 25% of the class goes into medical school with a sizable portion actually deciding to apply MD/PhD. Hopkins IMO does a good job in deciding who can be BME and sets them up well for success. All the BME premeds I know personally applying this cycle have at least 1-2 top 20 interviews which the actual best candidates almost doing a clean sweep of the top 10. It's hard but kinda worth it! Hope OP isn't Hopkins BME and dragging the name down with this deplorable thread.

 

[MDviaMBB]

I think that students should go to the best schools and major in the most medically-applicable subjects that they can. Outside of medical school land, in business, for instance, UG brand, difficulty, and major matters; anecdotally, people say that they want rocket scientist, CalTech grads treating their cancer.

I'm doing a masters at Oxford and meet people from backgrounds you wouldn't believe, here (e.g. neurosurgeons pursuing PhDs, MD/PhD Fulbright Scholars, etc). They all got here by working their butts off and doing rigorous things, and yes, that includes attending difficult schools and majoring in competitive, medicine-related subjects.

 

[efle]

I think that students should go to the best schools and major in the most medically-applicable subjects that they can. Outside of medical school land, in business, for instance, UG brand, difficulty, and major matters; anecdotally, people say that they want rocket scientist, CalTech grads treating their cancer.

I'm doing a masters at Oxford and meet people from backgrounds you wouldn't believe, here (e.g. neurosurgeons pursuing PhDs, MD/PhD Fulbright Scholars, etc). They all got here by working their butts off and doing rigorous things, and yes, that includes attending difficult schools and majoring in competitive, medicine-related subjects.

Gotta say those last couple sentences are a bit odd, since you don't need to attend a top undergrad or study anything medically related in college to become a neurosurgeon, pursue a PhD, or win Rhodes or Fulbright etc. I've also never heard anyone request a rocket scientist to treat their cancer lol

 

[MDviaMBB]

Gotta say those last couple sentences are a bit odd, since you don't need to attend a top undergrad or study anything medically related in college to become a neurosurgeon, pursue a PhD, or win Rhodes or Fulbright etc. I've also never heard anyone request a rocket scientist to treat their cancer lol

There's a lot that you don't know.

 

[efle]

There's a lot that you don't know.

True, but I know you don't need to attend a top undergrad or study anything medically related in college to become a neurosurgeon, pursue a PhD, or win Rhodes or Fulbright, and that people realize physicist and physician are similar only in their sounds.

 

[ZedsDed]

I agree. Even though I never mastered the art of poon.

Eh, don't worry about it. Sweaty, awkward fumbling and groping are the best any teenager can hope for.

 

[ImmunoLove]

Whether or not OP is a troll, I see where OP is coming from. Sounds like OP came from a disadvantaged background and had probably never been in the academically rigorous and competitive environment like the "top 10" uni that OP is at right now. Furthermore, at these institutions, there are additional pressures to conform and to be on the same level as other "geniuses." Doing well in classes, completing homework, became a chore. Always getting results that are average or below average--not because OP is not smart, but because OP didn't know how to study, or how to go to office hours, or how to get the help that OP need, or even have the resources to get the help that OP needs--can be extremely discouraging and can lead to a downward spiral.

As someone who have been in OP's shoes, I can attest that it is very difficult, sometime much more difficult, to go through the medical school application process if you come from a disadvantaged background in any sort of way and if you go to a top university that is far from your usual support system. Luckily for me, I had mentors, family, and friends from home and school that helped me overcome the obstacles of undergrad.

If you're even more curious, consider reading this article on the doubly disadvantaged: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/13/opinion/sunday/what-the-privileged-poor-can-teach-us.html

Agree. I imagine it is even more difficult if one were disadvantaged and went to a "no-name" school with far fewer resources (vs. disadvantaged and at a top school).

 

[ImmunoLove]

I have a theory that philosophy departments nationwide are funded by liquor companies.

I actually laughed out loud at this! Haha!

 

[Krupke]

True, but I know you don't need to attend a top undergrad or study anything medically related in college to become a neurosurgeon, pursue a PhD, or win Rhodes or Fulbright, and that people realize physicist and physician are similar only in their sounds.

Lol. If you don't go to a top school you can't have a career

 

[makennacompton]

At the recent ucdavis health professions conference in October a dean presented on admissions policies and said that grads from top schools received the equivalent of a 0.2 GPA boost when their applications were considered.

 

[TBV]

At the recent ucdavis health professions conference in October a dean presented on admissions policies and said that grads from top schools received the equivalent of a 0.2 GPA boost when their applications were considered.

Which I may see as fair but I believe going to my school majoring in exercise science/kines inflated my grade way more than 0.2 compared to me going to a top school and majoring in something hard.

 

[Nietzschelover]

My choice to use philosophy as an example was a poor one. Although there was an underlying bias as to why I chose it (in regards to its difficulty as a major) it was the first subject that came to mind due to my genuine interest in the field. My apologies.

No apologies needed! Gave a couple of us a chance to pump and spout off about philosophy.

 

[avgn]

Yeah I saw a lot of tears in classes when the Ivy rejection emails went out. High schoolers identify so much with grades, test scores, rankings. I'm glad I didn't have a tiger parent, that's a time when your priorities should be girls, sports, video games, and girls.

And you ended up with one fine tigress now didn't you 😉

 

[WingedOx]

TIL I went to a Top 100 high school. Academic Readiness 921 (wtf does that mean???) oh yeah baby. What do you think sounds better for my resume, Top 100 nationally or Top 15 in California? But seriously what is even the point of this. It's only public schools so no drumming up business for private academies. It might be a sort of useful tool for a parent trying to figure out which high school their 14 year old should attend, but outside of that I can't figure what justifies the effort on US News behalf.

probably because education rankings are the only reason US News gets any clicks anymore. (though wasn't it Newsweek that made the original top public high school rankings?)

 

[avgn]

There's a lot that you don't know.

"LOOOOOOOOK AT ME GAIZ MPHIL FROM OXFORD DOES THAT NOT GIVE ME STREET CRED OR WUT"

 

[MDviaMBB]

"LOOOOOOOOK AT ME GAIZ MPHIL FROM OXFORD DOES THAT NOT GIVE ME STREET CRED OR WUT"

It does, actually; it's a degree that's historically reserved for physicians, and my classmate is an MD/PhD Fulbright Scholar.

 

[Krupke]

Where is the cutoff for a "top school" though? Top 20 schools in US News? Because I would definitely consider Carnegie Mellon to be a top school. And then there's the issue of some top schools giving grade inflation, most notably Brown. Do you guys think adcoms give Brown kids a boost too?

-Well, I think the boost comes in part from adjusting for the rigors of the schools and the understanding that a 3.3 from these schools will do fine in med school and in part from the name (like how a HMS student with a 230 step 1 score will match much better than a Drexel student with a 230 or how people would pay for a Louis Vuitton even though you could get a much cheaper brandless bag of equal quality). In that sense Brown students benefit from the latter boost, so if you are choosing between a 3.7 from Brown and 3.7 from an unknown school the brand will help the Brown student. Also if Brown actually has this rampant inflation then they don't need to benefit from the gpa boost

-I think it's more the top 12 schools where you could be relatively confident applying with a 3.3 sGPA

-Students from other schools definitely get looked at in the context of their app as well since not all 3.3s getting into med school come from top schools.

 

[Krupke]

It does, actually; it's a degree that's historically reserved for physicians, and my classmate is an MD/PhD Fulbright Scholar.

My classmate got into Harvard Med and got a full tuition scholarship to a top 10 med school. I must be a genius

 

[avgn]

It does, actually; it's a degree that's historically reserved for physicians, and my classmate is an MD/PhD Fulbright Scholar.

I can't tell if you think we're dumb or if you're just used to spewing this BS to people not in the know. The MPhil has nothing to do with physicians or medicine today. I don't know the history of the MPhil, but all that it is now is a glorified research master's from the UK, obtainable in any field. No different from the MA/MS that American PhDs get when they've passed quals and written a master's thesis. To claim that you get street cred because the MPhil somehow makes you qualified to talk about American MD admissions is ridiculous.

You should also stop citing your credentials here as if people care because 1) we don't care, 2) some of us have equal, if not better, academic pedigrees, and 3) many of us will have an American MD, which is a better pedigree than yours. You are a noob member with 5 posts, only half of them contributory, and you think you get to say **** because you go to Oxford and drink tea with Rhodes Scholars? Please. I banged a Rhodes Scholar on the reg in college (before and after the Rhodes), I ain't expecting street cred from an anonymous premed forum just because I've gotten Rhodes poon

The funny thing is that I actually agree with your initial point that challenging oneself at a challenging university pays dividends. As soon as you made that your justification for saying other people are dumb, though, joke's on you sonny boy

 

[efle]

-I think it's more the top 12 schools where you could be relatively confident applying with a 3.3 sGPA

Well, it looks like Wustl students have an ~70% admit rate with a 3.3 / 30, about the same as the national 3.9 / 30 bin, and I think big name recognition probably extends to places like Cornell, Berkeley, Vandy, Rice. Prestige whoring will vary by institution and individual adcom but I don't think anyone is going to be drawing lines at US news top 10 or top dozen.

Where is the cutoff for a "top school" though? Top 20 schools in US News? Because I would definitely consider Carnegie Mellon to be a top school. And then there's the issue of some top schools giving grade inflation, most notably Brown. Do you guys think adcoms give Brown kids a boost too?

Probably depends on the adcom in question, but iirc someone on SDN has said they are aware of the biggest offenders for inflation/deflation (eg they know it's harder to make a 3.7 at Princeton or Hopkins than Harvard or Brown).

probably because education rankings are the only reason US News gets any clicks anymore. (though wasn't it Newsweek that made the original top public high school rankings?)

Makes you wonder what else they're going to start ranking. Top online programs? Best preschools?

 

[WingedOx]

Makes you wonder what else they're going to start ranking. Top online programs? Best preschools?

let's not give them any ideas.

 

[Lucca]

Makes you wonder what else they're going to start ranking. Top online programs? Best preschools?

You joke but my mom was a teacher at a private elementary school (retired) and the waiting list to get in is so long some kids are on the list and have not even been born yet all because the school has a good track record of getting kids into other selective schools further on. I wish I was making this up. Hell, she taught me for free 😉.

 

[El-Rami]

Makes you wonder what else they're going to start ranking. Top online programs? Best preschools?

They already rank preschools in certain countries. Parents want their kids to pass entry exams to get into prestigious preschools so they can eventually get into prestigious high schools so they can... well you see where this is going. I am actually not even joking.

 

[Krupke]

Makes you wonder what else they're going to start ranking. Top online programs? Best preschools?

http://www.usnews.com/education/online-education

Online program rankings is actually probably good because there are some sketch programs out there

 

[efle]

My God so both of those things are really already ranked

 

[Lawpy]

Has @md-2020 posted in this thread yet?

 

[md-2020]

Has @md-2020 posted in this thread yet?

Of course. Threw in a couple more jabs at our lifeless old friend streampaw 😀

 

[WedgeDawg]

Johns Hopkins is a wonderful and flawless institution of international prestige and renown but Dartmouth is straight up terrible #dumpsterIvy

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Johns Hopkins is a wonderful and flawless institution of international prestige and renown but Dartmouth is straight up terrible #dumpsterIvy

Dartmouth is a fine institution.

 

[WedgeDawg]

View attachment 199329
Dartmouth is a fine institution.

Sorry, I added an image to my post to elucidate my position.