qweewq11

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A friend of mine was recently rejected from medical school. I told her that she should reapply go for the MD...she's certainly smart enough!

Anyone have some good reasons for me to convince her that being a physician is better than being a nurse?
 

solid snake

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If I got rejected the first time, I'll reapply again and again and again until I 'll get an acceptance somewhere. It's all about desire. As long as I have people believing that I can get into med school and become a doctor, and of course believing in myself also, then the desire doesn't burn out.
 

ChicagoDude

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I don't agree with SolidSnake. Applying to medical school is a very stressful, time consuming and expensive activity to be doing over and over again. After maybe two tries, I was planning to go into nursing or possibly physical therapy. There are many very cool and challenging fields in medicine where professionals are in demand besides just MD's. They also make a significant amount of money and allow for the same patient contact and exposure to science.

As for prestige of the professions, I highly respect anyone who goes into some field of healthcare (except lawyers and insurers) and especially think highly of nurses after working directly with them in the past.
 
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Ripley

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Originally posted by qweewq11
A friend of mine was recently rejected from medical school. I told her that she should reapply go for the MD...she's certainly smart enough!

Anyone have some good reasons for me to convince her that being a physician is better than being a nurse?
Nurses are not mini-docs. They are two distinctly different professions.
 

smilez428

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this is my plan- i'm applying to MDs and DOs this year. I'll probably try one more time if I don't get in, but after that, my plan B is going to get my masters in nursing to be an NP...some say that's a step down, but I'm not in it for the money, I'm in it for the patients. Some people call me crazy for giving up so "easily", but $3000 isn't that easy! Just my two cents.

Good Luck everyone!
~smilez:)
 

mpp

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I would also do the same as the others. Re-apply at least one more time and then go for something else...nursing being near the top of the list. The nursing shortage is approaching a critical point in some areas. Work is a available in almost any part of the country and after a few years in certain fields you can easily be making good money ($60,000+). There are also further education available in specialty fields (CRNA and NP for example) so it is a faily open field.
 

missmod

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I don't think I would do it. One aspect of nursing that I wouldn't want to deal with is the image. Although the role of a nurse has changed a lot in the past 50 years, a lot of people outside the health field still have a very not so respectful views of nurses. Call me shallow for caring about that aspect, but it would have to be a reality that your friend might have to deal with. (Made worse because she DID want to be a doctor.)

I have a roommate who is in nursing school as an undergrad and she lives with two pre-med's. She is constantly telling us how good nursing is, how much money she will make, how many less years of schooling she will go through, as if the validity of her chosen profession was something she had to prove to us. She almost had me persuaded -- I actually thought about going into nursing so I could have more time for future family and kids.

But besides the whole reputation thing, nurses and doctors actually do very different things. After working in the ER every day this summer, I have seen that it's very evident. There is a shortage of nurses and yes, that means better pay. But that also means that nurses wind up doing a lot of grunt work, including things that housekeeping or nurse's aide's might have to do. You look at Carol Hathway or Abby Lockhart on ER and you think, "hey, that doesn't seem so bad!" but the nurses who have these roles are usually always the head nurses who have been working for 30+ years. A lot of the time, I did see nurses at Bellevue having to clean the lice off homeless people, change chucks and bedpans, and other similar things. Some people enjoy caring for others in this kind of way, but it's very different from being a doctor and I don't think it's really an adequate replacement.
 

lola

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if i don't get in this round (my first time applying), i will likely apply to nursing schools next year. being an md and a nurse are very different, but each has its advantages. it really depends what your friend wants out of life. what's appealing to me about being a doctor is being able to control how i do my work, hopefully being intellectually stimulated at times, the pay (i'm not going to lie), and being well respected. what's appealing to me about being a nurse is more flexibility in life (working hours, locations), less stress in school and less responsibility (can also be a bad thing in the long run). what really bothers me about being a nurse is that you have to take a lot of crap from people, and i think it would get annoying knowing that i was just as capable as many of the doctors but was getting paid less and couldn't contribute some of my skills/knowledge.
so, i guess my point is is that it really depends what your friend wants. if being a nurse is not going to bother her several years down the road, then it's a fine route. but, if what she really wants is to become a doctor, she should apply to MD programs one more time. she could maybe even apply to both at the same time?
 

pwrpfgrl

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I've seen the difference in the work that nurses and MD's do, and I think that I would keep trying for med school at least once more. i know that i, personally, get really frustrated when i can do much more than the task given to me, but I'm not allowed to go beyond my immediate job functions.

anyway, i have a question. i've seen alot of people refer to the "nursing model" vs. the "medical model". can anyone explain to me what the difference is? i know that the big differences between PA's and NP's is learning using the medical model instead of the nursing model, but i'm not really sure what that means.
Thanks for any info!

:)
 

NineSixteen

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Originally posted by missmod
I don't think I would do it. One aspect of nursing that I wouldn't want to deal with is the image. Although the role of a nurse has changed a lot in the past 50 years, a lot of people outside the health field still have a very not so respectful views of nurses. Call me shallow for caring about that aspect, but it would have to be a reality that your friend might have to deal with. (Made worse because she DID want to be a doctor.)
missmod - this statement really hit home for me. Another profession that this is a huge problem is teaching. I was a teacher for two years and LOVED it, loved every minute of working with kids, loved that "ah-ha" moment, loved being in the classroom, loved passing on knowledge, loved helping people understand, but hated telling people "I'm a teacher." My mind always inserted "just" in that sentence. For me, it wasn't enough.

I feel horrible that I felt this way, but it's a reality that teaching and nursing are traditional female professions that are much less respected than many other careers. (I'm female, by the way, before anyone kills me for that statement) I respect anyone who can choose these professions and not feel that way; I don't think that you are shallow and I don't think that I am either, I just care a lot about prestige and image and wouldn't be completely happy without. I have never thought about what I would do it I hadn't been accepted to med school, but I doubt that I would have chosen nursing.
 
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qweewq11

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It seems like the consensus is that people want to be doctors rathe rthan nurses. Ok, so let's take this a step further then. WHY do you want to be a doctor, and not a nurse? The answer couldn't just be "helping people" since nurses help people too, right?
 

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this thread makes no sense..
your friend didn't get into med school... so, why are you the one taking the burden of figuring out her application problems? first- medicine takes dedication. if your friend does not want to reapply because its "too hard" - well, the road doesn't get any easier. so, why don't you let your friend do what she wants to do... its possible that she applied to med school because of other pressures in her life and has no desire to be a clinician herself. just a thought-
peter
 
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tigerneomd

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Why do people try to compare nursing with being a doctor. They are totally different jobs. Do those of you who are going to be doctors think that the nursing shortage isn't going to affect you? Nurses are the ones that are with the patients 24-7, they are the eyes and ears for the doctors. A lot of decision making is based on what the nurses tell the doctors. I currently work in a NICU and I do a lot more that wiping the butts of babies all day long. You may not think so now but developing a good relationship with the nursing staff that is working for you is important. Everyone, no matter how careful they are, is going to make a mistake and I'd hope a nurse or someone else found that mistake and let the doc know rather than letting a lawyer find it. People go into nursing because that is what they want to do; not everyone wants to be a doctor. I really don't think most nurses are nurses because they weren't "smart enough" to be doctors. I also don't understand why people think nurses don't have "responsibility" can someone explain that one to me. BTW a lot of times head nurses don't even take patients what they do is more administrative. Nurses can and have and will continue to get sued for doing things that a doctor wrote orders on not because of the docs mistake but because they didn't take responsiblity for thier patient and recognize that the order just wasn't quite right..............
 

silvercholla

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OH GOD NO!!!!!!! NURSES WORK TO FREAKING HARD!!!!!! AND THEY DON"T GET PAID NEARLY AS MUCH AS THEY SHOULD!!!!!

Are you insane???? Besides nursing isn't a standby job. It's a career that requires a certain tempermant (sp?) that most doctors and doctor hopefuls just don't have. Look if you want something standby go into a research (as the subject maybe :D) Anyway... nurses spend a lot of time doing the things that doctors don't do. And it's been my experience to see premeds turn nurse seem very resentful and jealous of the fresh interns. Just reapply or find something else to do.
 

Biodude

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I feel that I should add some comments and opinions of mine here as well. It seems that everyone is saying try again for the M.D. and that nursing is different altogether. I agree. Particularly with silvercholla...

I have an aunt who planned on becoming and obstetrician/gynecologist. Didn't make it, so she became a nurse instead. I heard that she was very bitter and resentful because doctors and head nurses ordered her around so much. So she studied to become an administrative nurse. Of course, now, my aunt seems to be doing fine with this, but she still thinks about being a physician from time to time.

It's not really a good idea to go to nursing if you didn't make it to medical school unless you have the right personality for it.

Me, I know that I'll definitely not have the right personality, so that's why I'd rather not be a nurse. Well, that and the reputation/prestige/respect that nurses get....

I guess I'm somewhat shallow too :(

Now, as for the nursing shortage, well, I've found a variety of reasons. One is hospitals aren't willing to pay so much so they hire nurse's aides instead, who don't do such a good job.

In fact, I believe that one of the causes of my father's death was because there weren't that many nurses. Even though they all dressed alike, I later figured out that many of them were actually nurse's aides, and thus, bad treatment on my father's part! How did I find out? Well, I read an article in Reader's Digest a while ago, about the nursing shortage in healthcare, and the way the nurse's aides acted in the article seemed almost the same as the way the "nurses" at my father's hospital acted!

Another reason I've found for the nursing shortage was in an article in U.S. News. It talked about how many R.N.'s quit their jobs and still didn't go back despite their former employers doing everything from begging to giving a larger pay for them to go back. Why? The doctors. Yep, that's right, it was the doctors' fault that there's a nursing shortage. Arrogant doctors specifically. Basically, sometimes nurses might see something that doctors do not, as nurses are with the patients 24/7 for the most part, but doctors, in their arrogance, thinking that just because they received more training and thus are experts, don't listen to the nurses. Guess what happens to the patients?

Well, after reading that article, I know the type of doctor that I definitely do not want to be. I think that nobody here at SDN should be this type of doctor either. Why? Well, because the patients may end up more ill thanks to the doc's arrogance, and the nurses may start quitting, fed up with the lack of respect that these types of doctors give to them. I think that no one would want this sort of thing to happen.
 

2badr

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I just cannot see myself being happy in the nursing profession. My sister was a nurse so I think I can make/have made a well-informed decision about being a nurse or a doctor. I too, as stated would like to have more decision making in the care of the patient.Maybe a PA, but I do not think I could be a nurse. It really does boil down to that cliched but oh-so-true statement : Do what YOU will be happy doing.
 

Smoke This

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I would have thought very seriously about nursing if I couldn't get in to medical school.
 

tigerneomd

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I really hope some of you change your opinions about nurses(ing). I guess I'm a little biased because I am a nurse. But seriously, you are already disrespecting the very people that are and will always be a part of your job as a doctor. I mean how can you work with people YOU don't even respect? I really think it's kinda sad. :( and it is going to make your job a lot harder. You will have to depend on these people to help you make decisions. It's fine that you didn't chose nursing and that your desire is to be a doctor, but I think alot of you; when you actually do get into medicine, your eyes will be opened....I sure hope so.

I guess it depends on where you are from, but the patients I take care of and their families rarely show me any disrespect and I have no problem with my image as a nurse. And also as a doctor you will not have more contact with patients.

I understand the desire to become a doctor, I was almost there until my twins were born at 24 weeks gestation. But you know it wasn't the doctor that was at the beside when I or my twins needed someone the most, it was the nurses or the RT's who a lot of times saved my twins long before the doctor made it out of bed and to the bedside.

Just something to think about. But I think perhaps until you go through something that will change your life, you opinion of people and I'm not just speaking of nursing or medicine, will always be somewhat tainted. Medicine, even for doctors, is not all glitter and gold and I think for some of you once you get deep into it the worry over you image and prestige won't be such a big issue.
Take care and this is just my 5 cents worth.
 

silvercholla

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tigerneomd... which is why if you do not get into medical school nursing should NOT be a fall back!!! Nursing is an all encompassing job. It takes a lot as well as gives and it shouldn't be the second choice for a medical career. It should be something you are passionate about, like many of us should be passionate about medicine and being doctors. Doctors save bodies but nurses save souls and heal the heart. So I will say it again. If you do not get into medical school don't "Fallback" on nursing unless you really wanted to do that in the first place. Nurses have a lot of pressure in their jobs, more so, I think, than doctors in some ways. Go into research get your masters or PHD or anything else. But don't let nursing be anything but a second choice. That's all I was saying in the first place.:love:
 

Biodude

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I am sorry if my post sounded like I was disrespecting nurses. I do believe that they play a very integral role in health care, and also that doctors who work at hospitals depend on them more than they think. I have heard many stories from friends about why they respect nurses more than doctors, even.

But, remember in my last post, why one of the reasons there is a nursing shortage now? Physicians should value a nurse's advice more than they do now. I don't think anybody wants to have an arrogant doctor thinking that he knows everything about a patient when in fact, it is the nurse that has been with the patient pretty much the entire time. The nurse has seen the patient's ailments more than the doctor, and so the doctor should heed the nurse's advice, to some degree at least.

With that said, I would also like to say, again, that if I end up working at a hospital as a physician, I will give nurses the respect that they deserve, which is a lot more than a lot of physicians working in hospitals nowadays.
 

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If I didn't get in this time around I simply would only have the patience to do one more round. Mainly due to the fact that I don't know what else I can do to improve my situation. If I don't get in then its Law School baby!
 

silvercholla

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But don't let nursing be anything but a second choice. That's all I was saying in the first place.
I meant a first choice... oops freudian slip?????:oops:
 

tigerneomd

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Silver,
I understand what you are saying. For me nursing was not my first choice. I was accepted to MUSC in South Carolina in the MD program but when my twins were born I had to do something else. One of my girls spent 4 months in the NICU the other came home after 10 months. She still has her trach and multiple medical problems so for me; because I didn't have perfect babies the way most women expect to, I couldn't do medical school AND take care of my kids the way they need. My desire to be in medicine was so strong I decided to do nursing. At first it did hurt because I wanted to be a doctor so bad but now I realize that the most important part of my life are my kids. I still can become a doctor and later on when my girls are strong I probably will. I know it wouldn't work for everyone but "falling back" on nursing worked for me. I'm still in healthcare and I still make a difference and I can still be a doctor God willing nothing else happens to my kids. I guess having my girls in the NICU and now working in the NICU has changed the way I look at things.

I respect the hardwork and dedication it takes to becoming a doctor and I truly wish all of you the best, hopefully someday when my babies are a little older I'll be able to join you.

I'm sorry if I sounded bitchy or disrespectful to any of you in my posts; I never intended to. I think you'll all make great doctors.


Good luck to you future MD's. :love:
 

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A lot of the time, I did see nurses at Bellevue having to clean the lice off homeless people, change chucks and bedpans, and other similar things.
As a resident, you may end up doing this kind of scutwork..
 

Bikini Princess

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Originally posted by missmod
What exactly do PA's do and how is it different from being a nurse or a doctor? This sounds like a pretty new thing...
Being a PA is somewhat similiar to a doctor, but the depth and breadth of education received is somewhat (some would say significantly) less.

As a PA, you can have your own partnership in a practice, prescribe your own drugs, and see your own patients. However, your authority is always second to that of a doctor. The pay is about half what the average family practice doctor makes, perhaps 60-90k.

I don't know if you can ever be officially listed as someone's PCP, but I wouldn't be surprised that a PA could.
 

otter

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Originally posted by Biodude
It's not really a good idea to go to nursing if you didn't make it to medical school unless you have the right personality for it.
I agree with this. I've met nurses who are happy with what they do and nurses who keep complaining that they could've and should've become doctors. Nurses play integral roles in health care indeed, but it certainly takes the right personality to thrive as and be happy as a nurse.
 

emedpa

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missmod et al:
for info on the pa profession please see www.aapa.org
the pa concept has been around for over 30 years. there are over 40,000 pa's practicing in every field of medicine. and yes, you can be a pcp or own your own pratice(you just pay someone(md/do) to review your charts on a weekly basis and have a group of specialists available for referals.I know several people who do this.
the typical program is a 2 year masters program and requires 3-5 years of prior medical experience at the level of paramedic, rn, or resp. therapist to gain admission. some programs require less than this but not many. avg. salary , depending on specialty, is in the range of 55-120k+/year.
 
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