I'm thinking about quitting...

[Journey2become]

Pre-med - please don't shoot!

No one makes you take call 3 weekends a month as a new attending, either, unless you ask for it. It's called CONTRACT NEGOTIATION when you start with your first job. If it's in your contract and you don't negotiate it, or if you're stupid enough to not ask what the call schedule for the next few years will be like, then you have to accept the punishment that you've called upon yourself.

I did not know that! Thanks for the info, it will be invaluable no doubt! All of my previous jobs I was merely a lowly worker and it was basically a take-it or leave-it situation.

Furthermore, most doctors I've come across out there have been middle-aged - frankly, I'd be pretty worried if the doctors who's been working for 25 years doesn't have a fat bottom line. If a doctor's living paycheck to paycheck in his 50's not due to any recklessness on his part, that means the system is a ****ing joke.

I agree. If medical education became like what legal education is becoming, where they charge a ton for an education that may or may not provide the opportunity to repay once they are able to land a job then it's messed up!


OP, I can empathize with being overwhelmed with the piling on of debt.

Taking a year off to see if you want to pursue other interest seems like a reasonable choice in your circumstances.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[womp]

Well, I guess I was lucky. No MBA for me, just a bachelors.

The trick is to get paid for performance instead of a salary. Starting salaries of MBA's have absolutely nothing to do with earning potential in finance. Many guys I worked with made 300k+. Internet searches can only teach you so much about this stuff, your doubt only highlights your ignorance.

Personal highest income in a month was 25k two years ago.

You're a tool.

 

[Darwinism]

Finance is fun, I made almost 200k a year in finance.

Its fun and you made 200k a year, but you quit to try medicine?

 

[IHeartNerds]

there's a lot of anger in this thread

i think my debt will be paid off easily by my salary (median, my specialty, my region = 606k/yr). and this is the coolest job in the world. no contest.

 

[toooldforthis]

literally every job sucks

/bowdown.

 

[MCAT guy]

Its fun and you made 200k a year, but you quit to try medicine?

Well, in all reality I didn't like it that much. I didn't earn 200k a year though, I made a little less.

 

[deleted263296]

I doubt anyone quits despite the common urge to do so. If anybody actually quits medical school when they are not failing, I would love to hear their story.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

By the time, the medical student gets out of residency - the I-banker will either be one of the VPs at the company ballin' out of control with cash or in a cushier job of his choosing still making good money. At the end of the day, the med student finishes residency with a giant debtload having gone to class & studied his ass off at easily an equivalent 70 hours a week to the I-banker - while the I-banker has been eating all his paid for meals and basically putting all his giant disposable income into savings or personal investments.

You forgot option number 3 for the I-banker-> I-banker gets fired because he's still mid level (I'd love to know the last time you saw somebody move up from entry to a VP position in 4-5 years) and joins the thousands of other unemployed I-bankers right now.

 

[sideways]

Can all you ****ing narcissistic ******s stop talking about i-bankers and all associated pie in the sky professions. Jesus christ you guys make me sick to my stomach.

 

[MedStudentWanna]

I doubt anyone quits despite the common urge to do so. If anybody actually quits medical school when they are not failing, I would love to hear their story.

We lost two people this year who weren't failing. One guy burned himself out on the first block and decided medicine wasn't for him after acing it. And a female classmate left mid-year to get married and start a family. We also lost two people who took leaves of absence for illness, one of whom has already decided not to come back next year and will probably be looking into PA programs. It happens more often than you think.

On a sidenote, I'd love it if new SDN policy was that pre-meds weren't allowed to post in the allo threads seeking advice from med students. All they ever do is spout off judgmental know-it-all attitudes when they have absolutely no frame of reference. The allo forum has the potential to turn into a pre-allo environment if the mods don't monitor this.

 

[xanthomondo]

We lost two people this year who weren't failing. One guy burned himself out on the first block and decided medicine wasn't for him after acing it. And a female classmate left mid-year to get married and start a family. We also lost two people who took leaves of absence for illness, one of whom has already decided not to come back next year and will probably be looking into PA programs. It happens more often than you think.

On a sidenote, I'd love it if new SDN policy was that pre-meds weren't allowed to post in the allo threads seeking advice from med students. All they ever do is spout off judgmental know-it-all attitudes when they have absolutely no frame of reference. The allo forum has the potential to turn into a pre-allo environment if the mods don't monitor this.

o wait, ur serious?

 

[MedStudentWanna]

o wait, ur serious?

Why wouldn't I be serious? You don't think that when a med student wants advice from other med students, that a dozen pre-meds shouldn't converge on the thread and spout off nonsense advice they're pulling out of their ass? I'm not saying pre-meds have nothing to contribute. Of course they do, to other threads. But if a med student wanted a pre-med's outlook on what med school/residency/life as a doctor is like, he/she would post in pre-allo.

It's like a first-year med student wandering into the residency forum to advise residents who've been dismissed from their program.

 

[xanthomondo]

Why wouldn't I be serious? You don't think that when a med student wants advice from other med students, that a dozen pre-meds shouldn't converge on the thread and spout off nonsense advice they're pulling out of their ass? I'm not saying pre-meds have nothing to contribute. Of course they do, to other threads. But if a med student wanted a pre-med's outlook on what med school/residency/life as a doctor is like, he/she would post in pre-allo.

It's like a first-year med student wandering into the residency forum to advise residents who've been dismissed from their program.

Yeah but that's why there's the pre-med title under their name - you can do whatever you'd like with their advice. But you want SDN to implement a policy to prevent certain people from posting in certain threads?

Sometimes it's useful to have an outsider's perspective no matter what level of training they're at. I'd rather have the opinion of a pre-med who has a relative who is a physician (ie "life gets better as a doc i've seen it myself") over another stressed out MS2 who is hating life because they're studying like crazy for step1 (omg ur right we shoulda never done this").

 

[bucks2010]

Why wouldn't I be serious? You don't think that when a med student wants advice from other med students, that a dozen pre-meds shouldn't converge on the thread and spout off nonsense advice they're pulling out of their ass? I'm not saying pre-meds have nothing to contribute. Of course they do, to other threads. But if a med student wanted a pre-med's outlook on what med school/residency/life as a doctor is like, he/she would post in pre-allo.

It's like a first-year med student wandering into the residency forum to advise residents who've been dismissed from their program.

Actually he was looking for advice on a career as a physician, not just what it's like to be a med student. You can tell the OP how med school is hard (however it should be noted that med students by no means have a monopoly on hard work), but being in med school (especially if you're pre-clinical) isn't going to give you all that great of a perspective on what it's really like to be an attending, because you aren't one. So it's naive of you to think that the "Medical student" tag under your profile somehow gives you a monopoly on good advice for these sorts of threads.

If OP just wanted to know if he could make it through med school, that's one thing. But when it comes to seeking advice on a long career as a physician, the med student vs pre med designation is a poor indicator of the quality of advice received. Like I said earlier - get off the high horse. We all have perspectives to contribute.

 

[adaptation1]

The bottom-line is this. Pre-meds have valid, constructive, and notable ideas to contribute. These ideas have the potential to spur thought-provoking discussions, the conclusions of which we will continually draw upon in our medical careers. Med students do not care about these ideas.

 

[MedStudentWanna]

Actually he was looking for advice on a career as a physician, not just what it's like to be a med student. You can tell the OP how med school is hard (however it should be noted that med students by no means have a monopoly on hard work), but being in med school (especially if you're pre-clinical) isn't going to give you all that great of a perspective on what it's really like to be an attending, because you aren't one. So it's naive of you to think that the "Medical student" tag under your profile somehow gives you a monopoly on good advice for these sorts of threads.

If OP just wanted to know if he could make it through med school, that's one thing. But when it comes to seeking advice on a long career as a physician, the med student vs pre med designation is a poor indicator of the quality of advice received.

Which is why, I, as a first-year, didn't offer advice. See how that works? I don't pretend to put myself in the OP's shoes and then criticize him, judge him, or ridicule him. The OP wanted advice from others in his situation and from residents/attendings, not from people who have yet to attend their first med school class. I don't care what perspective pre-meds have. The point is that unless you know what the poster is talking about first-hand, you have nothing to contribute. Period.

That said, there are several pre-meds whose contribution is welcomed, even though their advice is hollow and not really helpful. Why? Because they express their thoughts in a way that's humble and non-offensive. But there are many other pre-meds right here on this thread who make a living out of being rude and judgmental when they have no idea what's what. Just look at this thread. I'm sorry, but I don't frequent pre-allo for a reason and they're it. It's a shame that people defend them. Might as well merge this forum with pre-allo.

 

[bucks2010]

If you're reading some kind of critical attitude out of my or any other premeds posts, than I apologize for the miscommunication. It's partly a consequence of feedback being given in the form of the written word vs. verbally. But I think if you're reading such a critical attitude into everything - you may be reading too much into things.

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/investment-banking-salaries-mcdonalds/

http://www.calculatorslive.com/Investment-Banker-Salary-Calculator.aspx


http://www.uatonyc.com/iber.htm

Also keep in mind that there are more physicians than Investment bankers.

And don't even get me started on law.

Now lets compare it to the largest and most comprehensive physician survey http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=817247

And you can become a US physician with a 3.3 and a 25 MCAT (D.O) so it is much more accessible.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

Which is why, I, as a first-year, didn't offer advice. See how that works? I don't pretend to put myself in the OP's shoes and then criticize him, judge him, or ridicule him. The OP wanted advice from others in his situation and from residents/attendings, not from people who have yet to attend their first med school class. I don't care what perspective pre-meds have. The point is that unless you know what the poster is talking about first-hand, you have nothing to contribute. Period.

That said, there are several pre-meds whose contribution is welcomed, even though their advice is hollow and not really helpful. Why? Because they express their thoughts in a way that's humble and non-offensive. But there are many other pre-meds right here on this thread who make a living out of being rude and judgmental when they have no idea what's what. Just look at this thread. I'm sorry, but I don't frequent pre-allo for a reason and they're it. It's a shame that people defend them. Might as well merge this forum with pre-allo.

And yet a quick perusal of your recent posting history shows you like to talk about things like the match, MD vs. DO and Step studying that are things as an MS1 you have no experience, and thus no validity, about which to comment. See how that works? I didn't ridicule the OP one bit on things I assume him or her to understand from their experience. I expect the same respect given to me when I understand things, from experience, at a level to justify commenting. You're painting every one who is pre-med with one brush, and everyone in medical school with another. Pretty reductive, IMO.

 

[ccmonopolies]

http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/investment-banking-salaries-mcdonalds/

http://www.calculatorslive.com/Investment-Banker-Salary-Calculator.aspx


http://www.uatonyc.com/iber.htm

Also keep in mind that there are more physicians than Investment bankers.

And don't even get me started on law.

Now lets compare it to the largest and most comprehensive physician survey http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=817247

And you can become a US physician with a 3.3 and a 25 MCAT (D.O) so it is much more accessible.

ha, in response to those paltry ib salaries: here are real ones.

http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/2010-investment-banking-associate-bonuses-at-bb

Granted, these are associate salaries for ib analysts who survived 3 years of analyst work and got promoted to associates. Most don't make it to associates, but do private equity or another finance related job and make similar numbers.

An attending doctor's salary is comparable to working as an experienced, low-level (below vice president level), front office person in finance.

However, to get these coveted finance jobs, a person would have to pretty much attend an ivy league school for undergrad or attend a top MBA school. If you have not done either, medicine is probably your best choice right now.

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

ha, in response to those paltry ib salaries: here are real ones.

http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/2010-investment-banking-associate-bonuses-at-bb

Granted, these are associate salaries for ib analysts who survived 3 years of analyst work and got promoted to associates. Most don't make it to associates, but do private equity or another finance related job and make similar numbers.

An attending doctor's salary is comparable to working as an experienced, low-level (below vice president level), front office person in finance.

However, to get these coveted finance jobs, a person would have to pretty much attend an ivy league school for undergrad or attend a top MBA school. If you have not done either, medicine is probably your best choice right now.

You are going to need a better source than this. It even asks if anyone can confirm or deny and several posters have said that they are too high.

 

[Calheesh]

There is a lot of depression floating around SDN.

 

[ccmonopolies]

You are going to need a better source than this. It even asks if anyone can confirm or deny and several posters have said that they are too high.

if you just poke around you'll see that the averages are higher than what you posted. I'm just saying your sources are a bit dated, they could potentially be accurate, but most likely out of date.

 

[MedStudentWanna]

If you're reading some kind of critical attitude out of my or any other premeds posts, than I apologize for the miscommunication. It's partly a consequence of feedback being given in the form of the written word vs. verbally. But I think if you're reading such a critical attitude into everything - you may be reading too much into things.

Try doing a post history on Democritus. You'll see exactly what I'm talking about.

 

[MedStudentWanna]

And yet a quick perusal of your recent posting history shows you like to talk about things like the match, MD vs. DO and

If you want to compare a first-year debating on FACTS, such as match rates and MD vs. DO to a pre-med giving advice to a med student on whether or not to drop out of med school, you need serious help with your analytical skills.

Step studying

How have I ever advised anyone on Step studying? Please show me.

I didn't ridicule the OP one bit on things I assume him or her to understand from their experience. I expect the same respect given to me when I understand things, from experience, at a level to justify commenting. You're painting every one who is pre-med with one brush, and everyone in medical school with another. Pretty reductive, IMO.

Actually, I'm not brushing you all with the same brush. If you bothered to read my post before getting bent out of shape, you would have seen that I said the following:

That said, there are several pre-meds whose contribution is welcomed, even though their advice is hollow and not really helpful. Why? Because they express their thoughts in a way that's humble and non-offensive.

 

[courtnes]

If you want to compare a first-year debating on FACTS, such as match rates and MD vs. DO to a pre-med giving advice to a med student on whether or not to drop out of med school, you need serious help with your analytical skills.



How have I ever advised anyone on Step studying? Please show me.



Actually, I'm not brushing you all with the same brush. If you bothered to read my post before getting bent out of shape, you would have seen that I said the following:

The thought that pre-meds should be "humble" in here is slightly offensive in and of itself. Maybe it's just a random semantic issue that I'm making too much of, but I personally don't feel the need to kowtow to you on the internet just because you're a couple years ahead of my cohort in the medical education process. We're all eventually going to get to the same place, and I think we can all be respectful to each other no matter allo/osteo/pre-allo/pre-osteo. Not to mention, this is the internet (okay, so maybe respect goes out the window in that case) and no one's credentials can be confirmed. In that case, it's up to you how seriously you want to take any individual.

That said, I really do appreciate help from people who are years ahead of me and have been enjoying reading the allo forums to figure out what kind of issues may crop up in med school.

/OT - sorry OP, as a pre-med I really don't have anything useful to contribute to your thoughts on quitting med school since I'm not there yet.

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

if you just poke around you'll see that the averages are higher than what you posted. I'm just saying your sources are a bit dated, they could potentially be accurate, but most likely out of date.

You made a claim now back it up. Show your work. The source you posted was not credible in the slightest.

 

[Siverhideo1985]

Someone shut down this cluster****!

 

[michaelrack]

You can make an argument that every single person posting in this thread is, in some way or another, not qualified to post. C

What OP wanted was a thread "discussing perspectives on life, medicine, alternative careers, etc." - word for word. We've all had varied life experiences to this point & everyone's opinion is equally valid. There is no one here who has made millions in finance and then gone through med school and established a successful medical practice such that they can give you perspectives on both sides. .

I feel qualified (haven't done "finance" but I am a practicing physician who in addition to practicing clinical medicine-sleep- is also helping to run both the clinical and non-clinical aspects of a healthcare- related company worth several million $). However, I have nothing to add to this fascinating discussion

 

[MedStudentWanna]

The thought that pre-meds should be "humble" in here is slightly offensive in and of itself. Maybe it's just a random semantic issue that I'm making too much of, but I personally don't feel the need to kowtow to you on the internet just because you're a couple years ahead of my cohort in the medical education process.

You misunderstood what I was saying. I meant humble in that they're giving advice without having actually experienced it themselves, as in they realize that they haven't been in the OP's shoes so their advice is coming from the perspective of someone not yet there. I never said you should kowtow in my presence, nor do I think you should. I just think that the pre-meds who swagger into a thread (and it's been happening a lot lately) to give med students the whatfor whenever the mood strikes are *******s.

Just a month ago, someone posted about possibly quitting med school in the DO forum and in came a pre-med to call him selfish for not sucking it up. A pre-med who posted on this very thread, posted on another one with a med student venting about his school to tell him how entitled he was. I'm sorry, but when you judge someone else for what they say when you're sitting in your cushy little pre-med lounge, it's time to get back to pre-allo.

/OT - sorry OP, as a pre-med I really don't have anything useful to contribute to your thoughts on quitting med school since I'm not there yet.

And that's exactly what I mean. I have no problem with someone like you posting on these threads. That's the "humble" I was talking about. It's your colleagues who barge in to tell posters they're selfish or entitled or badger them when they've never even experienced med school that I have a problem with.

 

[MCAT guy]

Hmm, since this is the allo forum, technically Pons has more of a right to post here than MedStudentWanna, since Pons will actually be attending an allo school in a few months and MedStudentWanna (osteo) never has or will.

But as you said:

I have no problem with someone like you posting on these threads.

I also have no problem with someone like you posting on these threads, even though you've never stepped foot in an allopathic class.

On a sidenote, I'd love it if new SDN policy was that pre-meds weren't allowed to post in the allo threads seeking advice from med students. All they ever do is spout off judgmental know-it-all attitudes when they have absolutely no frame of reference. The allo forum has the potential to turn into a pre-allo environment if the mods don't monitor this.

Wait? Should we allow DO students to post in allo threads? Again, I have no problem with someone like you posting on these threads.

 

[FutureMDSurgeon]

Finance is fun, I made almost 200k a year in finance.

I made 600k a year mowing the neighbor's lawn

 

[S6MD]

OP is definitely selfish. I've been studying for my sociology exam for close to two hours now, so I know what TRUE dedication really is.

 

[xanthomondo]

Hmm, since this is the allo forum, technically Pons has more of a right to post here than MedStudentWanna, since Pons will actually be attending an allo school in a few months and MedStudentWanna (osteo) never has or will.

But as you said:


I also have no problem with someone like you posting on these threads, even though you've never stepped foot in an allopathic class.



Wait? Should we allow DO students to post in allo threads? Again, I have no problem with someone like you posting on these threads.

This is a good point, I never realized his desire to ban pre-meds from this forum is from having such a huge complex.

 

[adaptation1]

hmm. yeah, he does make a good point. props, mcat guy!

This is a good point, I never realized his desire to ban pre-meds from this forum is from having such a huge complex.

 

[MedStudentWanna]

Hmm, since this is the allo forum, technically Pons has more of a right to post here than MedStudentWanna, since Pons will actually be attending an allo school in a few months and MedStudentWanna (osteo) never has or will.

This line right here diminishes your entire point since I am and always have been an allo student. Perhaps you should focus your energy a little more on getting your research right.

I also have no problem with someone like you posting on these threads, even though you've never stepped foot in an allopathic class.

What a great way to look like a fool. Keep posting that over and over again and don't bother searching my post history.

Wait? Should we allow DO students to post in allo threads? Again, I have no problem with someone like you posting on these threads.

EPIC FAIL.

 

[MedStudentWanna]

This is a good point, I never realized his desire to ban pre-meds from this forum is from having such a huge complex.

Ah, now my words are being twisted and manipulated all because MCAT Guy is a *****. I never suggested a ban and certainly not from the forum. If you're going to debate the issue, at least know what you're debating and WHO you're debating. Now let's see, who has the complex? Certainly isn't me.

 

[adaptation1]

Medstudentwanna, xanthomondo was being sarcastic, i think. i hope so at least.

Ah, now my words are being twisted and manipulated all because MCAT Guy is a *****. I never suggested a ban and certainly not from the forum. If you're going to debate the issue, at least know what you're debating and WHO you're debating. Now let's see, who has the complex? Certainly isn't me.

 

[Rook1317]

.

 

[MCAT guy]

Forgive my error MedStudentWanna.

I wish you a wonderful career as an allopathic physician. Good luck.

 

[womp]

Forgive my error MedStudentWanna.

I wish you a wonderful career as an allopathic physician. Good luck.

There should be an automatic rejection from MD schools and residencies for anyone who refers to himself or other MDs as an "allopathic physician."

 

[Mr hawkings]

How did we get to this point based on the original question?
I wonder if the OP quit yet

 

[Ok2Panic]

How did we get to this point based on the original question?
I wonder if the OP quit yet

Honestly some of the delightful banter between our peers and future colleagues over here is enough to make me also want to quit.

 

[futuremd327]

I'm going to get back to the original topic.

I was in the middle of my second year when I decided to take a leave of absence. I had many of the same concerns you did, and I was completely freaked out, not ready to take boards, etc. I am still on LOA now (have to decide whether or not I'm returning), and I have used the time to find a good therapist. I suffer from depression, anxiety, and PTSD, and I really wanted to look into how much that was affecting my attitudes toward school. I realize now that I completely underestimated how much these problems can change your outlook on everything. I don't know if I'm going back to med school, but if I do, I will be more aware of these issues and how they might be affecting me.

I am not suggesting that you are depressed or have anxiety, because your concerns are completely valid for any med student, depressed/anxious or not. What I am saying is that sometimes depression and/or anxiety can affect our outlook on the issues we face-- so if you are feeling depressed or anxious you should consider that as a possible factor in why you are feeling so overwhelmed. Again, I am NOT trying to say that you suffer from depression or anxiety. Med school is tough no matter what issues you may or may not have, and as I said before, your concerns are valid and understandable. I am just speaking from my own experience in saying that I underestimated how much these problems were affecting my outlook on my life, including issues I faced in med school. So if you think this might apply to you, don't be afraid to ask for help.

 

[AndreaKennyGa]

I'm coming! Let's see what happens

 

[393656]

Why are these pre-meds continuing to come back and post in a thread where its clear the OP and the other readers do not want their advice. Its one thing if we are open to your advice or it is well recieved but clearly at this point nobody who is not a pre-med wants to hear anymore from pre-meds. Take a hint poeple.

You pre-meds must lack social skills and cues like so many people goinginto this field.

Especially Bucks person-you continue to justify that your opinion is something worthwhile and valid etc. NOBODY in the thread including the guy that asked the question, wants your opinion!!! Yet you still continue to post. That is what I call seriously needing to GET A LIFE

 

[MagicalTrevor]

You forgot option number 3 for the I-banker-> I-banker gets fired because he's still mid level (I'd love to know the last time you saw somebody move up from entry to a VP position in 4-5 years) and joins the thousands of other unemployed I-bankers right now.

:\?

 

[MrCheetah]

Learn to read, *******. After the med student and the I banker get their bachelors degrees the I banker starts as an analyst and works his way up to the associate level by the time the med student graduates medical school then during residency he makes his way up to VP.

I'd also like to point out a massive difference is that the analyst/associate is getting PAID this whole entire time, while the student is getting the opposite of paid.

 

[Democritus]

I wish I could convince OP to actually quit medicine and pursue his or her pie in the sky. Then skip forward in time and check in on OP 10 years down the line...

 

[MrCheetah]

I wish I could convince OP to actually quit medicine and pursue his or her pie in the sky. Then skip forward in time and check in on OP 10 years down the line...

Thats not very friendly of you at all.