I'm thinking about quitting...

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I've never met a doctor who . . . regretted their decision to go into medicine.

I assume you've met very few doctors, then.

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I assume you've met very few doctors, then.
Whoah whoah man, he's "worked-closely" with some doctors. That's like being one!
When i'm the retractor bitch tomorrow in surgery, i'm gonna tell the attending that I've "worked-closely" with some surgeons and explain to him that he's doing the surgery wrong.
 
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Actually, you're not a good reader at all. I was saying that things are fine the way they are and yes doctors do make a salary that allows them to live comfortably. Darwin was backing up his claims of all doctors being financially secure and noone ever having any complaints whatsoever with claims of 80,000 dollar cars and mansions. See when you argue, you examine the basis of people's statements and the validity of said statements. I could say:

Why is it that every time there is a thread about landscaping laborers, its based primarily on money/debt? I've never met a landscaping laborer who was struggling financially, nor one who regretted their decision to go into garden-tending.

>> Random Guy: Have you actually talked to these landscaping laborers, had a look at their numbers, or have firsthand knowledge as a landscaper? It sounds like you're full of ****?

I don't need to ask when I see them driving 69 Chevy low-riders with 20" inch rims, 600RMS sub-woofers, and custom paint jobs, DUH. But actually, I get some occasional gardening done, and I work closely with many gardeners when they're mucking around in my backyard. If you think i'm under the assumption that after landscaping 1 shift orientation, I will be living the good life and blowing money fast, you're wrong. That is the delusion that a lot of people have about their lives in general. I am not someone going into landscaping for money anyways so I really don't care. I'll pay for my chrome rims over years, and be able to live just fine.

Wow from the above statement you can see that I actually have no experience whatsoever in landscaping and am making totally baseless blanket statements. No worries though because maybe in 10 years where I actually become what I'm talking about - I will still be in the same frame of mind and think exactly the same way. Experiences don't change me! Therefore since I'm gonna be thinking exactly the same in 10 years - it's pretty much like I'm already doctor!

Darwin's lecturing medical students and physicians about something that he has no first hand knowledge about based on some half-baked assumptions. Do you think it's appropriate to lecture people with first hand knowledge about something of which you have no knowledge whatsoever?

P.S. I was gonna break down your comment, but it actually made no ****ing sense! ****it here goes: Doctors do make enough to live comfortably, but they still have remain "fixated on their finances and debt load." But wait - Darwin thinks students and doctors shouldn't be so "fixated on their finances or debt load". Then the second half of your comment. What the **** are you talking about? I was saying that if a doctor has been "living comfortably" and being conservative with his money and was broke that wouldn't make much sense right?!! See when you argue you often describe something much different to your opponent to find something you can agree on to both be true. Darwin was describing a world where all doctors live on golf courses and drive 80,000 cars and do not care about money. In the world, there's a thing called money and if you don't have enough of it you can get loans and look like you have more money than you actually own. Someone who doesn't really know you could then think that you are actually super rich when you are not. Then if you have a really small sample size you could then think everyone in that group is super rich!! Lets try an example: My neighbor works in construction - if he double mortgages his house and puts the downpayment on a Ferrari and doesn't show me any of his finances. I'd probably think he's rich!! Then since I only know one guy in construction - i'd think that everyone in construction is rich even though if I used common sense i'd realize that it is very unlikely that everyone in construction has a Ferrari. If I actually had DATA to back up my claims that everyone in medicine has an 80,000 car and a mansion then i'd have something. How in god's name did you manage to extrapolate from that logic that I was worried that doctors weren't making enough?

TLDR: Darwin has no factual basis for any of his claims and no first hand knowledge on the topic in discussion. Therefore, he is an idiot. You have further proven you have no reading comprehension skills. You are also an idiot.


and you just wrote a book about who only knows what to a guy who can't even read....
 
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Maybe I can chime in being a 4th year resident who is a couple months away from being done and entering the true "real world" I am someone with the 250k of debt or so such as the OP. I had the same worries so many times and felt overwhelmed to watch the debt stack up. By the 4th year of med school I was "locked" into becoming a doctor as I would otherwise not be able to pay my loans off. I felt the urge to leave medicine and pursue law at one point but I learned I was idealizing other things. Turned out lawyers job market sucks and it was a great decision.

I was a finance major with plenty of experience in undergrad. Jobs were plenty when I graduated and friends made great money but worked like dogs to move up a food chain and as mentioend job security sucked. Also choice of living where they wanted was not happening-had to move around the country.

A physician atleast can live absolutely wherever they want to live and make 200k in salary when its all said and done at the very leaast.

I felt better after I started re-shaping the way I was thinking about my debt and life (admit its overwhelming to see your loans start to come due). For example-lets say you get a job paying 225k/year. Instead of focusing on how much loans are taking away from you, just imagine getting the same job only getting paid 190k per year and not having any loans. If you frame things differently you can be happy with a solid income and not dwell on the money. to be honest its not as big of a deal as I thought it always was going to be. Most loans have a 10 year payoff plan and its quite easy to double up or 1.5 pay your monthly loan and be done in 5 years while still making the equivelent of 150k (in this 225k/year example).

I admit I do really love what I do, which is psychiatry. For all the thankless people, there are many people who I have made such positive impacts on and the appreciation they express is absolutely worth a million thankless patients.

With all that said part of why I will hopefully sustain happines is I chose a job where I will work 40-45 hours per week, do something I want and am living exactly where I want. I never needed to have a yaught or a mansion or a bentley. I didnt grow up in the lap of luxury so I have not been accustomed to a certain degree of wealth, I am happy being well-off.

If all goes well I hope to play my way onto the Senior pga tour at age 55 and then I will quit :) but until/when that happens I have a feeling life will be what you make it and with 150k plus its not a bad life.

There is also a quality that is absolutely priceless to being a physician. It is probably the most respected person in most people's eyes and the respect you command is worth any loans you have taken. The power trip (in a controlled fashion) of having peoples life in your hand and being able to help them in any way possible is a huge power trip if you use the power for good and are not someone who abuses the power.

Besides money there are some really amazing things. I absolutely love what I do and enjoy being at work, without that it wouldnt all be worth it so focus on something you enjoy and not what pays the most. Trust me on this.

Good luck!
 
literally every job sucks


:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

As for the OP, I agree with the exploitation of everyone trying to train in the medical system. It's a complete joke. I don't understand why a resident (working 80 hours per week) makes <2/3 of a starting nurse's salary who works 36 hours per week and can have 4 day weekends every week with no call.
 
First year student here, thinking about taking a year leave and giving consideration to pursuing something else.

Sounds like you want to leave because you had a hard year at school.

Take a LOA after you complete first year. It's perfect because you aren't up to your eyeballs in debt yet.

Go do whatever you think is best for you that year and if it works out, withdraw from med school. If you get your ass handed to you, then you still have med school to fall back on. Either way you'll gain some perspective.

If you continue down your current path without that perspective you might get miserable. You have to be completely committed to push yourself to each following year and it sounds like you need the year off to find it, which is fine.


And I agree that every job sucks, but other jobs suck without the insane amount of training. You can leave without consequence and go do something else. It really all comes down to wanting to be a doctor or not, despite it all.
 
^there are consequences to taking a year off come residency app time. Doesn't look too hot. Also, in order to get a medical license, I think you need to get through med school in no more than 5 years (I THINK). If that's the case, then once you go back, any slip up could end your career. I wouldn't downplay the potential to screw up once you came back, either. Starting 2nd year after a year away from the med school scene (and the priming that is 1st year) would not be easy. Then come boards.
 
^there are consequences to taking a year off come residency app time. Doesn't look too hot. Also, in order to get a medical license, I think you need to get through med school in no more than 5 years (I THINK). If that's the case, then once you go back, any slip up could end your career. I wouldn't downplay the potential to screw up once you came back, either. Starting 2nd year after a year away from the med school scene (and the priming that is 1st year) would not be easy. Then come boards.

I think you have 7 years to finish your MD.
 
Maybe I can chime in being a 4th year resident who is a couple months away from being done and entering the true "real world" I am someone with the 250k of debt or so such as the OP. I had the same worries so many times and felt overwhelmed to watch the debt stack up. By the 4th year of med school I was "locked" into becoming a doctor as I would otherwise not be able to pay my loans off. I felt the urge to leave medicine and pursue law at one point but I learned I was idealizing other things. Turned out lawyers job market sucks and it was a great decision.

I was a finance major with plenty of experience in undergrad. Jobs were plenty when I graduated and friends made great money but worked like dogs to move up a food chain and as mentioend job security sucked. Also choice of living where they wanted was not happening-had to move around the country.

A physician atleast can live absolutely wherever they want to live and make 200k in salary when its all said and done at the very leaast.

I felt better after I started re-shaping the way I was thinking about my debt and life (admit its overwhelming to see your loans start to come due). For example-lets say you get a job paying 225k/year. Instead of focusing on how much loans are taking away from you, just imagine getting the same job only getting paid 190k per year and not having any loans. If you frame things differently you can be happy with a solid income and not dwell on the money. to be honest its not as big of a deal as I thought it always was going to be. Most loans have a 10 year payoff plan and its quite easy to double up or 1.5 pay your monthly loan and be done in 5 years while still making the equivelent of 150k (in this 225k/year example).

I admit I do really love what I do, which is psychiatry. For all the thankless people, there are many people who I have made such positive impacts on and the appreciation they express is absolutely worth a million thankless patients.

With all that said part of why I will hopefully sustain happines is I chose a job where I will work 40-45 hours per week, do something I want and am living exactly where I want. I never needed to have a yaught or a mansion or a bentley. I didnt grow up in the lap of luxury so I have not been accustomed to a certain degree of wealth, I am happy being well-off.

If all goes well I hope to play my way onto the Senior pga tour at age 55 and then I will quit :) but until/when that happens I have a feeling life will be what you make it and with 150k plus its not a bad life.

There is also a quality that is absolutely priceless to being a physician. It is probably the most respected person in most people's eyes and the respect you command is worth any loans you have taken. The power trip (in a controlled fashion) of having peoples life in your hand and being able to help them in any way possible is a huge power trip if you use the power for good and are not someone who abuses the power.

Besides money there are some really amazing things. I absolutely love what I do and enjoy being at work, without that it wouldnt all be worth it so focus on something you enjoy and not what pays the most. Trust me on this.

Good luck!

For all of you premed idiots out there - this is exactly the kind of perspective I was hoping to hear... Not some of your typical, critical bull****.

Great post wallstreet - thanks so much man
 
Whoah whoah man, he's "worked-closely" with some doctors. That's like being one!
When i'm the retractor bitch tomorrow in surgery, i'm gonna tell the attending that I've "worked-closely" with some surgeons and explain to him that he's doing the surgery wrong.

MagicalTrevor is another good example of what a good post that contributes to discussion is. Thanks again to you too bud.
 
Oh ok. He'd still have to contend with the LOA though. Not the greatest thing.

there are a whole bunch of people (at least at our school) that take 5 years to finish med school for various reasons. There's an "extended" program that lets you bundle the first two years of med school into three years. One of the people who did that just matched urology at UCSF. I don't think it hurt them too much...
 
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there are a whole bunch of people (at least at our school) that take 5 years to finish med school for various reasons. There's an "extended" program that lets you bundle the first two years of med school into three years. One of the people who did that just matched urology at UCSF. I don't think it hurt them too much...

The "extended program" at your medical school probably isn't akin to taking a year off to "find yourself."

Or maybe I have it all wrong. Perhaps residencies would love the fact that he took a year off and he'll also get into UCSF urology.
 
The "extended program" at your medical school probably isn't akin to taking a year off to "find yourself."

Or maybe I have it all wrong. Perhaps residencies would love the fact that he took a year off and he'll also get into UCSF urology.

People do extended program for all sorts of reasons. It could be family related, or it could be because they thought it was hard and wanted to take 3 years to do two years worth of work. Is that worse than taking a year off to make sure you're in the right career path? In any case, it's all about how you frame it.
 
For all of you premed idiots out there - this is exactly the kind of perspective I was hoping to hear... Not some of your typical, critical bull****.

Great post wallstreet - thanks so much man

Cheetah brother-I have a feeling you will turn out just fine and be a happy successful doctor. I was JUST like you with those same thoughts as I mentioned. more than once I would have thoughts about leaving and thoughts of how this whole medical field is F&&&ed up. It only worsens through residency as you see all the unfair practice, politics, lawsuits and crap that happens.

However you have to be someone who can NOT take this personally or take it home with you at the end of the day. LOTS of stuff in medicine are crap but providing great medical care and changing lives is freaking ridiculous amounts of fun. You will learn very quickly there is SO many bad doctors out there harming patients left and right. Commonly people come in on these dangerous med regimens by other docs for years and years. You fix them up and they go on to be this super happy productive person who makes you a bunch of hand-made christmas orniments and brings her kids in to thank you for getting their mother back. **** that aint going to happen in any other field! That is a true story and that alone was enough to sustain me for the year.

There is something I just cannot put into words but being a physician (and even more now that I am done) being a "true" physician, having gotten my liscence and practice independantly now is truly a fantastic feeling and I personally love the respect from people I meet-I LOVE being able to say I am a physician, it never gets old. I cant explain it.

Cheetah-I think you honestly will regret leaving and give it a chance. Dont think about it for another 6 months, just put the energy into being a solid student or upcoming doctor and re-evaluate at 6 months. If you have an interest in speciality than get excited about it, read about it or if not than just study to LEARN and not memorize medicine. So many students just memorize stuff and never get the essence of the complexity and the amazing "game" that medicine can be. Its really great fun as a diagnostician if you know your **** which it sounds like you have the smarts and the interest in science that you will have this experience.

Just forget about it for awhile--trust me. It will start to fade! Good luck man!
 
For all of you premed idiots out there - this is exactly the kind of perspective I was hoping to hear... Not some of your typical, critical bull****.

Great post wallstreet - thanks so much man

cry me a friggin river, dude. you asked a question, you got answers. he basically said the same thing as everyone else, which is you'd be an idiot to quit. I'm glad someone finally put that in a way that didn't hurt your precious feelings.
 
Whoah whoah man, he's "worked-closely" with some doctors. That's like being one!
When i'm the retractor bitch tomorrow in surgery, i'm gonna tell the attending that I've "worked-closely" with some surgeons and explain to him that he's doing the surgery wrong.

I never claimed I knew what it was like to be a doctor....Trevor. And OP, I don't know what I said to offend you either. ....All I said was the ones I work with love what they do. Is that such a strecth of the imagination and unbelievable that your trying to criticize me for saying it? They are transplant surgeons, on call a lot, and make a pretty good living. No, I never asked to see their F*cking Tax forms. I love how med students thinks that premeds are suddenly such idiots. you took a year or two of classes and now a premed isn't worthy to post on a goddamn SDN forum? Give me a ****ing break. You don't think I know people live outside their means? This is America, isn't it? And your right, I wasn't completely honest. I have met some physicians who complain and bitch because they think they are underpaid and overworked. Not very suprising since EVERY field no matter what will always have people like this. Bottom line, If you went into medicine for money and an extravagent lifestyles, then you will obviously hate medicine. Let me ask you, have you ever a met a doctor who didn't make enough money to pay off his loans? If so, then maybe I would start to worry.

And don't worry, I'll take my "lowly" pre med ass back to the pre med forums where I belong!
 
No offense guys but even if pre-med people completely understood this situation and were able to give advice, the point of seeking advice here is to be re-assured or get some perspective. As someone in medical school for example, no matter how good the information is that a pre-med can offer, it does not have the capability of being able to pursuade or re-assure someone because it is typically based on their speculation, even if it is great information.

If the info comes from someone in the same shoes or someone who has been there and is now past it, it gives the person "evidence" that things can work out even when your situation arises rather than "speculation"

Obviously everyone is welcome here but I guess I agree with teh OP-don't pre-meds have better things to do than chime in on something they havent even started yet and have no perspective? There are plenty of other posts to post on-why waste your time and energy here?
 
Honestly, what the heck were you expecting on SDN???? Uhmm....hello? It's SDN!!!??!!

You get 100 useless posts for every single drop of true wisdom (and that's being nice) and even then its all anecdotal at best. If you expected any different on your thread...well then maybe naivety runs in all your decision-making.

Get your panties unbunched, take away your two cents from this thread and make your decision.

I really do hope you find yourself on greener grass soon, in medicine or elswhere.
 
No offense guys but even if pre-med people completely understood this situation and were able to give advice, the point of seeking advice here is to be re-assured or get some perspective. As someone in medical school for example, no matter how good the information is that a pre-med can offer, it does not have the capability of being able to pursuade or re-assure someone because it is typically based on their speculation, even if it is great information.

If the info comes from someone in the same shoes or someone who has been there and is now past it, it gives the person "evidence" that things can work out even when your situation arises rather than "speculation"

Obviously everyone is welcome here but I guess I agree with teh OP-don't pre-meds have better things to do than chime in on something they havent even started yet and have no perspective? There are plenty of other posts to post on-why waste your time and energy here?


What about first years? Are they qualified to post in this thread?

What about a premed ex-finance person who knows the facts about what OP is speculating about?

I could quote the OP and go line by line--almost everything he is posting about is speculation for you, speculation for first years, and speculation for pre-meds. We can all post here.
 
What about first years? Are they qualified to post in this thread?

What about a premed ex-finance person who knows the facts about what OP is speculating about?

I could quote the OP and go line by line--almost everything he is posting about is speculation for you, speculation for first years, and speculation for pre-meds. We can all post here.

You can post here, but it doesn't mean you have the perspectivethat is sought unless
A. you've gone through med school already and are in or post-residency and looking directly at jobs or
B. You're a financial adviser who works directly with established physicians.
 
No offense guys but even if pre-med people completely understood this situation and were able to give advice, the point of seeking advice here is to be re-assured or get some perspective. As someone in medical school for example, no matter how good the information is that a pre-med can offer, it does not have the capability of being able to pursuade or re-assure someone because it is typically based on their speculation, even if it is great information.

If the info comes from someone in the same shoes or someone who has been there and is now past it, it gives the person "evidence" that things can work out even when your situation arises rather than "speculation"

Obviously everyone is welcome here but I guess I agree with teh OP-don't pre-meds have better things to do than chime in on something they havent even started yet and have no perspective? There are plenty of other posts to post on-why waste your time and energy here?

I guess I would retort with the fact that based on your post history, your username is the closest you come to being able to comment on the MD vs. finance debate that the OP brought on, per your opinion on who "should" comment on what around here. OP sought perspective on some things that are outside of medicine, i.e. insight that some pre-med folks might possess much more adequately than a psychiatry resident with no experience in the finance field (AFAIK). I'm not defending anything said by anyone, premed or otherwise, in this thread. I'm also not spoiling for a fight with you, wallstreet. I will defend, however, the concept of people with insight adding it to the debate, regardless of their place in the medical training pipeline, including you. The argument can now recommence :)
 
My first thought in reading the OP's post was that my, the economy must be getting better. When I started med school it was a little depressing in that a fair number of my college classmates were making ridiculous amounts of money on Wall Street. All but 1 of those people have since lost their jobs, and a fair number are still unemployed....and frankly many are now going back to grad school. (And these are people with amazing credentials and had the best shot at doing well in the finance...and, frankly, when they were working had hours that were similar to that of a resident.)

OP, in the very least, your post comes off *screaming* that you went into medicine for the money (every problem you cite is about $$)...and have just now come to the realization it's not the most lucrative profession in the world. Maybe your post is an unfair representation of your state of mine, maybe not. It's fine to admit that money is the most important factor for you in determining your happiness, and if it is and if you do feel the way you state in your post it's probably better to get out now. The students, residents and attendings that I've known and are the happiest all love *medicine itself* and didn't go into it for the financial side in the first place....but don't kid yourself that there are plenty of jobs out there where you can make high six-figure salaries with little effort and no personal sacrifices (for one thing, you'd be sacrificing your career in medicine, which you seemed to want at one point...). Good luck in figuring it all out.

And I presume you're the kind of person who thinks that primary school teachers shouldn't go into teaching for the money either, right?

I had a great physics teacher in high school, and he said one of the most brilliant things I've ever heard before with respect to the enjoyment of teaching and money:

He said that if it wasen't for the money, he would absolutely not be a teacher. And it was because his top priority in life is to be able to provide a living for himself and his family - not because he is greedy, or did it FOR the money. It didn't mean he didn't love teaching, it simply meant that he understood there were one or two things which were more important than it.

Now, consider my situation. I didn't enter the medical profession for the money, I did it for the other reasons I stated in my post.

However, now that I'm IN the medical profession, I feel as if I'm able to see problems (that I listed in my post) which are giving me a heavy concern that this profession, contrary to what my physics teacher felt from his profession, will NOT be able to provide for, my future family and me, the life I want to lead.

And you mention people who are the happiest who love medicine itself: Would they still do medicine, given their love for it, if they had to go into one million dollars of debt to practice it? Two million? Three? I think that to a large extent, people, such as those who you happen to have met, contribute to the problem by accepting alot of the bull**** which is in medicine to begin with so they can simply do what they "love".

Except for the rare soul, there comes a point at which the debt, politics, bureaucracy, and all else that gets in the way of "real" medicine crosses the line and makes one's decision to go into the field simply not worth it. Don't consider this to be a rant, because I'm approaching it completely rationally and I think most would agree that this is the truth. I'm just over here in a corner trying to decide which side of that line I'm on.
 
I guess I would retort with the fact that based on your post history, your username is the closest you come to being able to comment on the MD vs. finance debate that the OP brought on, per your opinion on who "should" comment on what around here. OP sought perspective on some things that are outside of medicine, i.e. insight that some pre-med folks might possess much more adequately than a psychiatry resident with no experience in the finance field (AFAIK). I'm not defending anything said by anyone, premed or otherwise, in this thread. I'm also not spoiling for a fight with you, wallstreet. I will defend, however, the concept of people with insight adding it to the debate, regardless of their place in the medical training pipeline, including you. The argument can now recommence :)

I think you're missing the point of it entirely. Its not about debate, its just about discussing perspectives on life, medicine, alternative careers, etc.
 
And you mention people who are the happiest who love medicine itself: Would they still do medicine, given their love for it, if they had to go into one million dollars of debt to practice it? Two million? Three? I think that to a large extent, people, such as those who you happen to have met, contribute to the problem by accepting alot of the bull**** which is in medicine to begin with so they can simply do what they "love".

I recall seeing a thread on this topic a while ago - the question was, is 300k too much debt to assume to go into medicine? The overwhelming consensus among residents and attendings was that 300k (principal) was just too much to take on for a medical education.

Decisions like these would probably be much easier if physician salaries were more stable/predictable. The job market is generally good, but no one knows what our compensation will look like by the time we're practicing.
 
I think you're missing the point of it entirely. Its not about debate, its just about discussing perspectives on life, medicine, alternative careers, etc.

Semantic argument = boring. Debate equals discussion, IMO. If you just want people to show up and pat you on the back, then ask for people to pat you on the back and tell you that whatever decisions you make in life, everything will still work out awesome. Cheetah - everything is going to be fine, whatever you decide.
 
Semantic argument = boring. Debate equals discussion, IMO. If you just want people to show up and pat you on the back, then ask for people to pat you on the back and tell you that whatever decisions you make in life, everything will still work out awesome. Cheetah - everything is going to be fine, whatever you decide.

That sounded like white noise to me, and probably to everyone else.
 
I guess I would retort with the fact that based on your post history, your username is the closest you come to being able to comment on the MD vs. finance debate that the OP brought on, per your opinion on who "should" comment on what around here. OP sought perspective on some things that are outside of medicine, i.e. insight that some pre-med folks might possess much more adequately than a psychiatry resident with no experience in the finance field (AFAIK). I'm not defending anything said by anyone, premed or otherwise, in this thread. I'm also not spoiling for a fight with you, wallstreet. I will defend, however, the concept of people with insight adding it to the debate, regardless of their place in the medical training pipeline, including you. The argument can now recommence :)

Input from people that cannot read is especially frustrating. You probably shouldn't plan on doing well in the verbal MCAT. Maybe re-read my post and see I have plenty of experience in finance.

You are a pre-med your advice just does not belong. Criteria for having any real insight and understanding is.
1.You are in medical school or beyond and have started classes

Everyone else apparently has too much free time on their hands and likes to post info coming straight out their...
 
Input from people that cannot read is especially frustrating. You probably shouldn't plan on doing well in the verbal MCAT. Maybe re-read my post and see I have plenty of experience in finance.

You are a pre-med your advice just does not belong. Criteria for having any real insight and understanding is.
1.You are in medical school or beyond and have started classes

Everyone else apparently has too much free time on their hands and likes to post info coming straight out their...

This is complete nonsense. ANYONE with any knowledge of finance can comment on the field of finance. Do I really have to go through the OP's post line by line to show how much of it is speculation for anyone on these boards?

It is you who should reread the OP's post.
 
There is also a quality that is absolutely priceless to being a physician. It is probably the most respected person in most people's eyes and the respect you command is worth any loans you have taken.

Maybe 30 years ago. But we now live in the age of narcissism and entitlement.

Today people just think you're a greedy, arrogant bastard who is responsible for their $12,000 a year health insurance. And even the garbageman thinks he can do your job with his Google printout (and he does make almost as much as you on an hourly basis when you include his public pension).

Hundreds of millions of Americans (mostly Democrats) will defend teacher unions when their cushy benefits for 9 months a year of work are on the chopping block. Ten people (probably all doctors) will come to defend doctors when a politician wants to cut physician reimbursement. And at least 30% of doctors (mostly in academia) will slap their own profession in the face and demand that doctors get a salary cut.
 
Can we acknowledge that arguing about each other's credibility to post in this thread is rather meaningless? Pre-meds haven't been through med school. Med students aren't all the way through it. Residents attendings and have started practicing independently. You can make an argument that every single person posting in this thread is, in some way or another, not qualified to post. Can we get off the high horses?

What OP wanted was a thread "discussing perspectives on life, medicine, alternative careers, etc." - word for word. We've all had varied life experiences to this point & everyone's opinion is equally valid. There is no one here who has made millions in finance and then gone through med school and established a successful medical practice such that they can give you perspectives on both sides. That is why we have a forum - to get perspectives from people who have had different experiences. If you didn't want this kind of discussion and feedback from a wide variety of people ... you probably shouldn't have posted this on the internetz.
 
And I presume you're the kind of person who thinks that primary school teachers shouldn't go into teaching for the money either, right?

I had a great physics teacher in high school, and he said one of the most brilliant things I've ever heard before with respect to the enjoyment of teaching and money:

He said that if it wasen't for the money, he would absolutely not be a teacher. And it was because his top priority in life is to be able to provide a living for himself and his family - not because he is greedy, or did it FOR the money. It didn't mean he didn't love teaching, it simply meant that he understood there were one or two things which were more important than it.

Now, consider my situation. I didn't enter the medical profession for the money, I did it for the other reasons I stated in my post.

However, now that I'm IN the medical profession, I feel as if I'm able to see problems (that I listed in my post) which are giving me a heavy concern that this profession, contrary to what my physics teacher felt from his profession, will NOT be able to provide for, my future family and me, the life I want to lead.

And you mention people who are the happiest who love medicine itself: Would they still do medicine, given their love for it, if they had to go into one million dollars of debt to practice it? Two million? Three? I think that to a large extent, people, such as those who you happen to have met, contribute to the problem by accepting alot of the bull**** which is in medicine to begin with so they can simply do what they "love".

Except for the rare soul, there comes a point at which the debt, politics, bureaucracy, and all else that gets in the way of "real" medicine crosses the line and makes one's decision to go into the field simply not worth it. Don't consider this to be a rant, because I'm approaching it completely rationally and I think most would agree that this is the truth. I'm just over here in a corner trying to decide which side of that line I'm on.
i agree with all of this.. just don't think going into finance is the answer-- maybe an escape.

one reason i got into medicine is to just be one "good" doctor out there.
 
Dropout now! Just do it! Finance rules and doctors drool. You will get with hot businessman in finance! Get out of debt and just do finance, you won't regret it. Please do it!??
 
Input from people that cannot read is especially frustrating. You probably shouldn't plan on doing well in the verbal MCAT. Maybe re-read my post and see I have plenty of experience in finance.

You are a pre-med your advice just does not belong. Criteria for having any real insight and understanding is.
1.You are in medical school or beyond and have started classes

Everyone else apparently has too much free time on their hands and likes to post info coming straight out their...

Ad hominem. Ad hominem. An assertion that I disagree with.

An assertion that I disagree with.

I have some free time on my hands but not enough.

There, pretty much replied to all of the things you posted.

I'll repeat, to you specifically since you seem so keen on this being a tit for tat: you were a finance major in undergraduate a long time ago. And you have some friends who "do" or "did" finance. I'll stand by the assertion that you don't know the first thing about the lifestyle or career opportunities in finance right now. At all. Not even a little bit. Almost like it's coming out of your... Regardless, by all means keep spouting off about how you do. I'll sit back and enjoy this one from the sidelines. The OP really likes what you have to say, so you guys have at it.
 
Ad hominem. Ad hominem. An assertion that I disagree with.

An assertion that I disagree with.

I have some free time on my hands but not enough.

There, pretty much replied to all of the things you posted.

I'll repeat, to you specifically since you seem so keen on this being a tit for tat: you were a finance major in undergraduate a long time ago. And you have some friends who "do" or "did" finance. I'll stand by the assertion that you don't know the first thing about the lifestyle or career opportunities in finance right now. At all. Not even a little bit. Almost like it's coming out of your... Regardless, by all means keep spouting off about how you do. I'll sit back and enjoy this one from the sidelines. The OP really likes what you have to say, so you guys have at it.

Christ dude. Wallstreet went through medical school, residency, and is a doc. Give him some credit.
 
Christ dude. Wallstreet went through medical school, residency, and is a doc. Give him some credit.

I haven't argued word one with anything he's said re: medical school, residency, and being a doc. I don't think I've been the one laying out the ad hominem attacks and lacking in the credit-giving. I'll do myself a favor and not hold my breath waiting on you to admonish wallstreet for not giving me credit for knowing vastly more about the current finance industry than he does. I don't expect you to do that, and I surely don't expect a 4th-year psych resident to feign anything less that utter domination. Like I said, I'll leave the advice giving to people who deserve more credit and watch from the sidelines. Best of luck, OP. Please just figure out a way to finish medical school successfully. Medicine is a great gig for a lot of the reasons already laid out in this thread.
 
We're all going to die one day anyways so why bothering doing this. Just drop out now. Go into finance, it is amazing. You could be the next Warren Buffett.
 
Input from people that cannot read is especially frustrating. You probably shouldn't plan on doing well in the verbal MCAT. Maybe re-read my post and see I have plenty of experience in finance.

You are a pre-med your advice just does not belong. Criteria for having any real insight and understanding is.
1.You are in medical school or beyond and have started classes

Everyone else apparently has too much free time on their hands and likes to post info coming straight out their...



Christ dude. Wallstreet went through medical school, residency, and is a doc. Give him some credit.

Funny thing about SDN, the authority heuristic rules supreme, throw common sense out the window and judge based upon how far down the road an individual is.

You could have a guy who graduated from a Caribbean school, failed Step 1 three times, was in the bottom 10% of their class, failed to match twice and scrambled the 2nd year, and then they wander on SDN giving advice to anyone and everyone willing to listen.

Next, you could have an M1 who in the future is Junior AOA, hits 250+ on step 1, has a top 10 class rank and matches Plastics/Derm/Ortho or something ultra competitive, and somehow there is a notion that we should ignore the contents of each individuals statements, focusing solely on whether or not someone found a residency spot. Even with the possibility that one will be a leader in their field while the other continues to miserably under perform.
 
We're all going to die one day anyways so why bothering doing this. Just drop out now. Go into finance, it is amazing. You could be the next Warren Buffett.

Finance is fun, I made almost 200k a year in finance.
 
Finance is fun, I made almost 200k a year in finance.

Listen to this guy! His avatar is good looking and he went into finance, don't you want to be good looking?

I'm telling you don't miss out on doing something you really want to do because you are in too deep with something else. Just do it. Drop out and go pursue your dream.
 
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Finance is fun, I made almost 200k a year in finance.

:rolleyes:

idog.jpg


Most MBAs at top 10 b-schools start at $110k. And for many that's the highest salary they'll ever see after they get laid off 2 years later.
 
Maybe 30 years ago. But we now live in the age of narcissism and entitlement.

Today people just think you're a greedy, arrogant bastard who is responsible for their $12,000 a year health insurance. And even the garbageman thinks he can do your job with his Google printout (and he does make almost as much as you on an hourly basis when you include his public pension).

Hundreds of millions of Americans (mostly Democrats) will defend teacher unions when their cushy benefits for 9 months a year of work are on the chopping block. Ten people (probably all doctors) will come to defend doctors when a politician wants to cut physician reimbursement. And at least 30% of doctors (mostly in academia) will slap their own profession in the face and demand that doctors get a salary cut.

The entitlement argument also applies to doctors as well.

OP you should go into acting I have some friends who went to theater school and they are all pulling seven figs and dating hot models. Or become a CEO because if you can score well on the MCAT and get a high GPA that means every other profession is going to offer you the best positions.
 
Christ dude. Wallstreet went through medical school, residency, and is a doc. Give him some credit.

I didn't read everything that you posted.

But before you drop out, let me ask you: do you actually have ANY finance experience?

Have you done at least 1 internship related to finance? Did you have a background in finance? Have you taken many advanced accounting, math, statistics, and computer programming classes? Are you very strong in those areas? Did you graduate from an ivy league school? Have you had experience building a trade-able and scalable algorithm? Do you have connections to get that first job?

you're probably looking at all the quants and how they have 100k starting salaries, but do you have their experience?

can you beat out the slew of quant wannabes?
see: http://www.wilmott.com/categories.cfm?catid=16

if you can answer unequivocally yes to most of them, by all means, go do it.

But remember this, you always hear about the hedge fund guys who are managing billions of dollars and taking in tens to hundreds of millions per year in management and performance fees while you almost never hear of the ones who had some moderate success but then crashed and burned. :laugh:

If I were you, I would take a one year leave of absence from the school and see what you can accomplish in that one year. A year is probably not enough to do anything, but at least this way, you will leave yourself an out. Best of luck.
 
Most MBAs at top 10 b-schools start at $110k. And for many that's the highest salary they'll ever see after they get laid off 2 years later.

Well, I guess I was lucky. No MBA for me, just a bachelors.

The trick is to get paid for performance instead of a salary. Starting salaries of MBA's have absolutely nothing to do with earning potential in finance. Many guys I worked with made 300k+. Internet searches can only teach you so much about this stuff, your doubt only highlights your ignorance.

Personal highest income in a month was 25k two years ago.
 
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:rolleyes:

idog.jpg


Most MBAs at top 10 b-schools start at $110k. And for many that's the highest salary they'll ever see after they get laid off 2 years later.

Shhhhh Why do we have to crush the OP's dreams under the hammer of reality? I mean, look, those guys in that statistic are just regular joes, what you are forgetting is that the OP got into med school, which means he HAS to be one of the smartest people out there, I mean...premed is EASILY the hardest major in undergrad, he'll be a shoo-in!

Furthermore, while unemployment sits at 9% nationwide, what they don't say is that there are TONS of companies out there that can't wait to hire new graduates with 0 experience and pay them hundreds of thousands of dollars!

OP is right, being a doctor is a drag, you have to work HARD, and then you ONLY make somewhere around 4+ times what the median HOUSEHOLD income is in America.
 
OP is right, being a doctor is a drag, you have to work HARD, and then you ONLY make somewhere around 4+ times what the median HOUSEHOLD income is in America.

4x the average household income VS. the roughly 30x average debt load (per person, not household) that I will hold....yikes...

haha :D
 
4x the average household income VS. the roughly 30x average debt load (per person, not household) that I will hold....yikes...

haha :D

Point taken, but try paying for a 100-200k mortgage on a 40-50k salary ;) Add in car payments, undergrad student loans, etc. and I think you'll find that doctors aren't too bad off. I don't think any of us will find ourselves begging for food on the street anytime soon :)

Personally I think the level of medical student debt IS ridiculous, however I also think that it's not as crippling as people make it out to be. Many people work just as hard as all of us, if not harder, and make 20-30k a year, with little to no hope of advancement, doing the same exact mind-numbing thing every single day for 30-40 years in a row.

Coming from another career, and starting med school this August, I'm personally looking forward to learning something new every day, being mentally challenged again, and not having to work within the narrow confines of corporate america. But what do I know, I'm just a pre-med ;)
 
Point taken, but try paying for a 100-200k mortgage on a 40-50k salary ;) Add in car payments, undergrad student loans, etc. and I think you'll find that doctors aren't too bad off. I don't think any of us will find ourselves begging for food on the street anytime soon :)

Personally I think the level of medical student debt IS ridiculous, however I also think that it's not as crippling as people make it out to be. Many people work just as hard as all of us, if not harder, and make 20-30k a year, with little to no hope of advancement, doing the same exact mind-numbing thing every single day for 30-40 years in a row.

Coming from another career, and starting med school this August, I'm personally looking forward to learning something new every day, being mentally challenged again, and not having to work within the narrow confines of corporate america. But what do I know, I'm just a pre-med ;)

I agree. If medicine is for you, you really don't know what else to do, no matter how big the drawbacks. I can't see myself anywhere else.

Also...see attached in response to your pre-med comment. It is, of course, meant as a joke.
 

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