IMG chances

[JudoKing01]

Hey, I know there was a "chances" thread, but the last post was in Dec 2004 and I was afraid no one would see this if I put it there.

I know ortho is competitive for USGs, so as a US citizen graduating from an offshore school that's recognized by US programs, do I have a shot at getting an ortho residency program?

If my only shot is getting a perfect score on the Step 1, all honors in every class, and like marrying the PD's daughter, then I'm screwed, because I hate to study.

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[doc05]

you can match, but it's not likely. unfortunately it's so competitive, applicants from offshore schools are at a huge disadvantage. good luck.

 

[JudoKing01]

Man, doc05, you're on a roll answering my endless questions today. Thanks a lot. Sucks that I probably wouldn't be able to get an ortho residency. I know of a few programs that apparently are horrible, but I don't think I'd want to go there if that was the case, even if it was all I could get.

Edit: it'd be nice if I spelled your name correctly.

 

[Leukocyte]

Man, doc05, you're on a roll answering my endless questions today. Thanks a lot. Sucks that I probably wouldn't be able to get an ortho residency. I know of a few programs that apparently are horrible, but I don't think I'd want to go there if that was the case, even if it was all I could get.

Edit: it'd be nice if I spelled your name correctly.

I know 2 people from Ross U. (Carib. school) who are Orthopaedic Residents.

One of them matched the first time he applied:
-Got in at a non-academic community hospital
-Very smart, with perfect step 1 and step 2 scores (250+), and publications in Orthopaedics.
-I am sorry to say this, but he fits the stereotype of an atheletic "jock" perfectly.

The other did not match the first time, despite strong USMLE scores, but no publications or research.
-Stayed out a year doing a research project with the PD of a non-acedemic community program (not a greart program at all)
-He is a very personable dude with excellent social skills, the PD loved him.
-Pre-matched at the community program were he did his research.
-Also fits the stereotype of a "jock", howerver less so than the student mentioned before.

Can it be done? Yes but it is very difficult. Is it common? NO.

 

[NRAI2001]

Also I ve heard of mixed ideas on this but. Most of the actual drs i ve spoken with say that its not that big of a problem as long as u do fairly well on the USMLE. I spoke with a ortho surgeon who complete med school in Guadalaraja and he said he had no problem getting an ortho spot, but it was probably like 20 years ago when he got the spot. A few other non ortho docs have told me that it isn't too difficult, and that u can always switch into it after completing a year or two of general surgery.

Most of the med students say the opposite.

 

[JudoKing01]

Oh well, sucks for me.

 

[Apollyon]

A buddy of mine had 250's on Step I and II (252 and 263, if I recall), 4.0 through med school, no pubs, fit like a glove with SUNY-downstate res and faculty, great guy, big jock, and they put it to him plainly - chances weren't zero, but pretty damn close to it. Caribbean grad, 3 years ago.

He is doing anesthesia at Yale now.

 

[JudoKing01]

That blows. It doesn't really bother me too much because ortho is just something I'm interested and could enjoy doing. I think I would enjoy GS or Neuro just as much though. Although I hear that GS is competitive for IMGs too.

 

[NRAI2001]

That blows. It doesn't really bother me too much because ortho is just something I'm interested and could enjoy doing. I think I would enjoy GS or Neuro just as much though. Although I hear that GS is competitive for IMGs too.

From what i ve heard and seen on the residency match lists for some carribean schools, gen surgery isn't too difficult to get, neither is neurology.

Does anyone know how difficult it would be for a FMG to get a neuro surg spot.

 

[Leukocyte]

From what i ve heard and seen on the residency match lists for some carribean schools, gen surgery isn't too difficult to get, neither is neurology.

Does anyone know how difficult it would be for a FMG to get a neuro surg spot.

Please keep in mind that these residency lists that you see at the Carib. schools' web sites do not distinguish between preliminary surgery (easy to get) and categorical surgery (more difficult to get).

As far as Neurology and the Carib. schools, Neurology is pretty much attainable and not very competetive.

 

[JudoKing01]

Ah, that's good to hear about neurology. And as far as GS goes, I meant about what I've read on here, and other places. I don't take the lists on the caribbean schools too too seriously. As far as prelim surgery goes, would I just match for that one year and then try and match into a residency the next year or try and do both at once?

 

[Leukocyte]

Ah, that's good to hear about neurology. And as far as GS goes, I meant about what I've read on here, and other places. I don't take the lists on the caribbean schools too too seriously. As far as prelim surgery goes, would I just match for that one year and then try and match into a residency the next year or try and do both at once?

Apply to Categorical spots, and try your best to match into one. If you do not match, then you can pick a preliminary spot via the scramble (usually, there are many preliminary posts available so there is no problem with getting that).

Usually, I have seem unmatched IMGs do one preliminary year at the program they scrambled into, then start as a PGY-1 categorical the following year at the same program, if the PD liked them and they proved to be excellent residents. But do not rely on that, definately apply to other programs as well during your preliminary year.

So apply to categorical positions and try to mach categorical. Keep the preliminary route as a last resort. There are plenty of preliminary spots to go around.

 

[JudoKing01]

Thanks for the advice. I have a while before I have to worry about it, but it's good to know in advance anyway.

 

[Gibby Haynes]

UMDNJ has a couple of residents from SGU and they also took a DO for this coming year. University of Buffalo also has a grad from SGU and a DO just finished their program and is doing a trauma fellowship at Wake Forest. Also you might search on orthogate to find out more.

 

[JudoKing01]

That's cool Gibby. Thanks a lot. I've heard from some people that UMDNJ isn't as desirable a program as other places, so it might not be as competitive. I'll look on that site and check it out. Thanks.

 

[Wahoos]

I went through the Ortho residency application process this year. I am not sure how things worked 20 years ago, but I know from personal experience that surgical subspecialities are getting much more competitive in the last 2 years because of the 80 hour work week rule. For example, my home school, U of Virginia, received around 650 apps this year for 5 spots (this was up about 200 apps from last year and our school have never received more than 500 apps in any given year - according to the res. coordinator). The other 2 programs that I rotated at this year also received about 100-150 more apps this year, UNC had 600 for 4 spots and NW had about 600 for 8 spots). On the average, there are about 100-150 apps per spot, but given that most people apply to a ton of programs.... still with such a huge increase in the #s, it is much harder now to get into Ortho than say 20 years ago. This year, I think our school will have maybe 10 people applying to ortho out of 130 grads. The overall numbers is about 570-580 PGY1 ortho spots and about a total of 1000 or so applying each year. The match rate is around 60 percent or slightly higher. This year, there was only 1 spot open for scramble vs about a few hundred open for the IM scramble. As you can see, Ortho is freaking competitive and it is only going to get worse in the future. I had a friend who was a 250+ coming out of my school, top quarter in my class, had 15 interviews, and did not match ortho.

Anyways, this is just some inside info and hope it helps. If you are interested in Ortho, just work hard in school and apply,..... that is the only way you can find out if you will get in or not.

 

[JudoKing01]

****, way to ruin my day...

Just kidding, lol. But yeah, that's not too inspiring. Oh well, who knows, I'll probably end up liking something else anyway.

 

[Braveheart]

Judo, have you thought about transferring to a different medical school in the United States. I mean since you are a MS1 and you want to do ortho, wont u just transfer to get more competitive for ortho. I know it easier said then done.

 

[JudoKing01]

An ortho doc I know told me the same thing, but from what I hear it's really hard to transfer into a US school, and basically where you start is where you will graduate from. He also told me his son graduated from a really good school, was top in his class, and had great step scores, and he had a real tough time matching, so whatever. If it ends up being what I want to do, I'll go for it and have a back up ready. Worst comes to worst I end up doing something else that I also love.

 

[jays2cool4u]

I found a link that gives the percentage of US grads that matched in certain specialties. This data is collected by Washington University and I cannot verify its accuracy. Have fun. CLICK ME

Jays2Cool4u

 

[Braveheart]

An ortho doc I know told me the same thing, but from what I hear it's really hard to transfer into a US school, and basically where you start is where you will graduate from. He also told me his son graduated from a really good school, was top in his class, and had great step scores, and he had a real tough time matching, so whatever. If it ends up being what I want to do, I'll go for it and have a back up ready. Worst comes to worst I end up doing something else that I also love.

I respect that, u need to talk to my friend that is thinking that he can transfer from ross really easy.

 

[JudoKing01]

Heh, well I don't know who told him he can transfer really easily. Maybe he just assumed that, but I don't think it's true. Tell him to talk to some graduates or current students about it to get the real deal.