INTERESTING STORY of acceptance to Med School

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - MD' started by MissMedicine, Jun 29, 2002.

  1. MissMedicine

    MissMedicine Senior Member

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    Found this article in the LA times

    <a href="http://chicanas.com/doctors.html" target="_blank">LA Times article</a>

    The statistics on california applicants in the article (12,000 applicants... geez, californians constitute over 1/3 of medical school applicants) was shocking! California needs more med schools!!

    ps-oops (you are right lollie), sorry, 12,000 is the total number of applicants applying to california schools. But still only about 1/4 of californian applicants are being accepted, which is less than the national accepted percentage.
     
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  3. lollie2006

    lollie2006 Member

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    the figure cited (12,000) was the # of applicants to California schools, not the # of Californians applying, though I'm sure they're a large % of that number. Thanks for posting this link.
     
  4. mdterps83

    mdterps83 Member

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    RI-DICULOUS
     
  5. Michelys

    Michelys Senior Member

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    Nice story MissMedicine--I'm glad she at least got accepted! I, however, sympathize with this story not mostly as a minority, but as a thankfully accepted applicant. Last year, we all witnessed good and well how well-qualified SDNers were fighting left and right after the rejection letters started pouring in. I myself was rejected tons of times. I think everyone here on SDN knows how crushing the application process is--not just for minorities, for everyone. This article just reminded me of that <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> .
     
  6. Spiderman [RNA Ladder 2003]

    Spiderman [RNA Ladder 2003] Platinum Member

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    the story was too long and it was hard to read the smal paragraphs, did not have enough patience to finish reading it. It looks like a big complaint.
     
  7. FunkDoc

    FunkDoc Daddy Mack

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    thank god this story ended well, i teared up at the end.

    spiderman, you have a serious problem.
     
  8. boo_yah

    boo_yah Member

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    That "article" was ridiculous and horribly biased.
     
  9. Spiderman [RNA Ladder 2003]

    Spiderman [RNA Ladder 2003] Platinum Member

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    Yes, I know I do. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
     
  10. Resident Alien

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    Im happy that she got in. But full scholarship? Hope it was need based.
     
  11. MacGyver

    MacGyver Banned
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    It was interesting.

    I dont have a problem with the person about whom the article was written, but the author's attitude is suspect.

    He seems to view med school admissions as a RIGHT if certain thresholds are met. Newsflash, there is no such thing as a right to attend med school. Many qualified applicants (latino, black, and white) get turned down every year.

    Med school admission is a privilege, not a RIGHT, no matter how much you struggled, what you had to overcome, what your MCATs or GPA is.
     
  12. MacGyver

    MacGyver Banned
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    "The letter from the USC medical school sat atop the brown, polished upright piano in the Villarreals' San Joaquin Valley home, unopened"

    Migrant farm workers make enough money to buy a piano and afford a mortgage payment? they must be better off than I thought.
     
  13. burlypie

    burlypie Senior Member

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    Don't be so quick to judge, MacGyver. "Home" does not mean they own it, and a piano does not mean new and expensive. My parents have rented "homes" for over 25 years and their piano was old, used, and cheap -- and produced some fine musicians in my family.
     
  14. CANES2006

    CANES2006 Miami chica

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    Great story! That girl will be a great physician to her community, who is in desperate need of medical care. I wish more schools would put the effort that USC is doing in recruiting students that are willing to practice in these underprivileged areas. <img border="0" alt="[Clappy]" title="" src="graemlins/clappy.gif" />
     
  15. migs54

    migs54 Junior Member

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    the article was ridicilous and the authors attitude was appaling. so the girl grew up poor, so what alot of people grew up poor her whole family structure was intact which personally i feel is a bigger factor in growing up than being poor. A GPA under 3.0 and an 21 MCAT and the author uses phrases like "unbelivably she was denied addmission." what is so unbeivleable about that. I understand that she really wanted to be a doctor but alot of people do and not everyone can become one. The story didnt give me a good feeling it made me feel disgusted.
     
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  17. efex101

    efex101 attending
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    As a fellow Mexican-American I am very happy that she finally gained acceptance, that said she did not gain an outright acceptance the first time because her gpa and mcat were not up to snuff for the schools she applied to. Regardless of URM status or not you have to do well both gpa and mcat wise to gain acceptance to medical schools period. A B average even for MIT can raise red flags couple that with a subpar gpa and adcoms start wondering if you will be able to pass med school. What saved her was the masters program and retaking the mcat. To all URM's out there that is why we have to have awesome gpa and mcat there is never ever any guarantee...
     
  18. MacGyver

    MacGyver Banned
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    Remember, the article said "almost a B average."

    Translation: she really had closer to a C+ average than a B. (2.5 on a 4.0 scale)

    Canes2006, I take it you think personal background should trump MCATs and GPA? Of course they should be considered, but let me ask you this:

    What if she had a 2.0 GPA and a 19 MCAT instead, and that she was unable to improve on these numbers? Do you still think she should have gotten accepted?

    My argument with the author is that he seems to imply that background should always trump GPA and MCAT, regardless of how low they are.
     
  19. Kirk

    Kirk Senior Member

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    This article turned my stomach as well. As someone who worked 40 hours per the entire time I was at college plus maintained a high GPA plus volunteering, I find it very hard to feel bad for someone who can?t maintain a decent GPA and score above a 21 on the MCAT.
     
  20. efex101

    efex101 attending
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    I have to agree with Kirk on that. Well remember that she did not gain acceptance through the first round so she had to go back and get her master's and retake the cat. But by the sound of the article it seemed that she should have been accepted the first round, hello? there are many URM's out there with awesome stats so why someone with subpar stats get accepted before someone (URM or not) with good stats beats me.
     
  21. CANES2006

    CANES2006 Miami chica

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    MacGyver,
    I think she should have been accepted because she tried to improve her file and she did do so. If she had not improved her credentials and her numbers were as low as the ones you stated then she should have not gotten accepted. It would be of my opinion that she simply did not have the mental poweress to pursue medicine as a career.
    Also, I think she should have been accepted because she showed alot of tenacity in pursuing her dream. She made a hugh effort in improving her credentials (I would say the same for an anglo who demonstrated the same tenacity as she did). Furthermore, I believe that her background should be taken into account when considered for admission because she is willing to start her practice in a disgustingly underprivileged community. Unfortunately, studies have shown, that the majority of physicians who are willing to work in these communities are minorities who have grown up there. Very few Anglos are willing to work in these areas. So, it is of my opinion, that these factors (not necessarily that she was poor...although that would explain, at least in part, her lower stats) should be taken into account when determining who should be admitted to medical school.
     
  22. CANES2006

    CANES2006 Miami chica

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Kirk:
    <strong>This article turned my stomach as well. As someone who worked 40 hours per the entire time I was at college plus maintained a high GPA plus volunteering, I find it very hard to feel bad for someone who can't maintain a decent GPA and score above a 21 on the MCAT.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Not to be picky, but they never told us what was her exact MCAT score. I believe that another latina had a 21, and she was rejected because it was too low. Christina had better numbers supposedly, but not way higher either.
     
  23. LizardKing

    LizardKing Veteran Member

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    This is weird...I know most of the people described in this article.
     
  24. Spidey

    Spidey Leorl's official stalker

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    I thought it was a good story, I'm glad the girl got accepted and I'm sure she will work hard and become a doctor.
     
  25. CANES2006

    CANES2006 Miami chica

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    I forgot to mention before. I do not believe that she should have gotten a full scholarship (everyone has to get loans...why not her too?). I also believe that she should have gotten into a DO school not an allopathic school. She should be a doctor, but her scores were too low for an allopathic school.
     
  26. migs54

    migs54 Junior Member

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    Canes 2006 you say that she is going to be a great doctor to her comunity. what do you base this on? The fact that she really wanted to be a doctor? There is no sign in her academic background to suggest that she will be successful in med-school. It's funny the author dosent give her exact GPA which leads me to believe that is well under a B probally closer to a 2.5 then take into acount a 21 MCAT what points to a succesfull carerr as a doctor. Wanting very much to be a doctor and help people who are not as fourtunate as others dosent make one a good phycisan. The motavation may be there but are the raw tools there. Stories like this are in my opinoin a diservice to minorities. I'm sure there were many students minorities and not who were more desevering of the spot.
     
  27. Doctora Foxy

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    This was a wonderful story. :) I'm so happy she got in. :D

    And to the above poster, she had greater than a 21 on her mcats; the girl that was being discussed before her is the one who had an average of 7. :rolleyes:
     
  28. efex101

    efex101 attending
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    Ok I know that I will probably get flamed for this but should all people that just want to be a doc be a doc? I mean does just having *tenacity* at pursuing some goal mean that you should? I do not get it. Everyone and their mother wants to go to medical school, but just because we really really want it should it happen period regardless of the mental capability to do so? I want to be an NBA player yet I suck at basketball should I have the right to be an NBA player? I always tell my kids (I have two) that they can do *most* of the things that they set their minds to but not *all* things that they may want to do. I am sorry but I do think that there are limitations. Any suggestions or ideas? please no flames...sigh
     
  29. geneman

    geneman The Transgenic Hobo

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    I'm sorry but that was an extremely biased article. It sounded more like an EDITORIAL with an not-so-hidden agenda than an objective story.

    First off, her disadvantaged status is highly debatable. Second, the article seems to ignore that medical school admission is a ZERO SUM game. When one person gets in, another person does not. Numbers aren't everything but a 21 MCAT and a 2.6 GPA?? Can you imagine an Asian or even a white person getting in with these scores?

    Sure, I think Ms. Villarreal's story is great and she probably would make a fine doctor. But when you consider that there are other rejected applicants with superior credentials (numbers and otherwise), it is not surprising the silent majority supports Affirmative Action reform.

    The only good point that this article made is connection between Ms. Villarreal's father's commitment to education and the impact this emphasis has had on her life.
     
  30. CANES2006

    CANES2006 Miami chica

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by migs54:
    <strong>Canes 2006 you say that she is going to be a great doctor to her comunity. what do you base this on? The fact that she really wanted to be a doctor? There is no sign in her academic background to suggest that she will be successful in med-school. It's funny the author dosent give her exact GPA which leads me to believe that is well under a B probally closer to a 2.5 then take into acount a 21 MCAT what points to a succesfull carerr as a doctor. Wanting very much to be a doctor and help people who are not as fourtunate as others dosent make one a good phycisan. The motavation may be there but are the raw tools there. Stories like this are in my opinoin a diservice to minorities. I'm sure there were many students minorities and not who were more desevering of the spot.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I believe she will be a good physician because she is dedicated to the people in her community. I know alot of doctors who had the solid stats and went to the nation's best medical schools and yet they are horrible doctors. These doctors may know their stuff but they are inhumane bastards who are only interested in their selfish gains. They treat their patients like scum (treating their patients like they were doing THEM a favor) and behave as if they were god's gift to humanity. They are only interested in buying the best cars and condos and competing with their fellow doctors to see who owns the best toys. I'm sorry, but this isn't my definition of a good doctor. I rather have the dedicated doctor who treats me like a person and knows how to treat my disease just as well.
     
  31. Resident Alien

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    Doctora Foxy,
    the article says her score was little higher than the rejected latina girl.
     
  32. migs54

    migs54 Junior Member

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    efex101: I toatally agree with you. maybe we should just let everyone become what they really want to be regardless of qualifications or training. Lets give everyone a scaple and let them cut away cause they've had the tenacity to pursue their dream. It seems the "in" thing today is to make sure no one gets their feelings hurt and that everyone feels good about themselves. The fact is some people are going to be doctors some people are going to have work for minimum wage thats just the way life is unfair at times.
     
  33. migs54

    migs54 Junior Member

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    Canes 2006 good point. But with grades and scores like that there is no indication that she will be able to grasp all the material and information in order to be a good doctor. Would you rather being treated by a really nice and caring doctor who dosent fully know their **** or a narrasistic doc who knows every minor nauaince of their craft. For me i'll take the doc who knows their ****
     
  34. CANES2006

    CANES2006 Miami chica

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    migs,
    Yeah, if I'm dying, I'd rather have the doc that knows their ****. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> However, I'm thinking about the communities that have hardly any doctors to treat them. If people like Christina don't get into medical school then these communities will be more underserved than they are right now. It's better to have a doc than no doc, right? Anyway, my point was that medical schools should look at other factors when admitting people into medical school than just purely the numbers. Also, as I mentioned before, I believe this girl should have gotten into a DO school and not an allopathic school. Her stats were too low for an MD school. There is no doubt that other minorities were better qualified for that position than her.
     
  35. dr kevin40

    dr kevin40 Senior Member

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    that article makes me sick.

    it'd be sooo easy for me to be happy for her if she seemed like a qualified applicant (maybe a 3.4 gpa and a 28 mcat)

    sure she was disadvantaged, but so am i. but i don't put that everywhere i go. ppl shouldn't have excuses. its really pathetic what med school admissions people are thinking in the name of AA.
     
  36. efex101

    efex101 attending
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    See to me just settling for having a doc versus no doc for underserved areas is just wrong. These underserved areas should have the *best* doc possible or we are doing them an injustice. There are just too many qualified and yes, nice well rounded applicants that can meet the criteria to serve these folks. I do not think that accepting those that are not meeting the miminum standards (at least a 3.0 and possibly above 23 mcat) should be accepted just because they want to be a doc and shoot those stats are really low anyways, for crying out load how low should we go?
     
  37. Dr. Don

    Dr. Don Senior Member

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    people relax...the article never mentioned what her real MCAT was!, and besides her grad GPA shows that she can handle the curriculum. who knows 2.6 from MIT could have been at least a 3.0 from cal state fresno...WE DON'T KNOW!!! I believe she will be fine. Dr. Arias is a great doctor, great lady, and if she said she would take that girl under her wing, then without a doubt she will be a great doctor!!! Please stop making assumptions that are not based on facts.
     
  38. efex101

    efex101 attending
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    Dr. Don we are relaxed, this is the way we relax (he he) :D . No seriously I am sure that she will make a great doctor because she did more than prove herself with the master's work and second mcat take.
     
  39. Street Philosopher

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    It seems that they recruited based on Christina's potential, whereas most other applicants are accepted based on what they had proven. It's sort of like the NBA draft... teams draft high schoolers who've proven nothing but are "big, physical, and athletic" over people who were college all-americans.

    not sure there is a point to this, even though Kwame Brown is a bust and Battier is a solid rookie... because of course there is always Kobe.

    enjoy your saturday.

    PS: When does Christina open up her office in Beverly Hills?
     
  40. Doctor Octagonecologyst

    Doctor Octagonecologyst Junior Member

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    "Cristina...sent letters to the schools begging them to waive their fees. All but Harvard did."

    Doesn't do much to erase any stereotypes we associate with the H, does it? The bastards... :mad:

    The article did kind of gloss over her academic problems at MIT. "The first years at MIT were a struggle," it says. Do they mean she had an overall upward trend, with strong performances in her last one or two years? She should have, if her early difficulties were due just to a lack of proper preparation in high school. I would worry about anyone attending medical school after struggling to get B's consistently in the later stages of his/her college career, when any good student should hit his/her stride academically. And why was she playing softball and engaging in so many extracurriculars when she was struggling in her primary occupation as a student? We all know that medical school requires better prioritizing than this. Certainly I don't see, as the author does, how obvious it was that she should be admitted into medical school. Whether or not she was a good candidate for acceptance depended on how she presented her case in her essays and interview. From USC's decision, we can [hopefully] infer that she was articulate and gave good explanations for her weaknesses.
     
  41. geneman

    geneman The Transgenic Hobo

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    Whereas recruiting based on potential works in the NBA, it's ludicrous for selecting who becomes doctors. In the NBA, you can afford to take a risk on, say, a Yao Ming, because if he flops, then there's always next year's draft. However, you don't gamble on a prospective doctor because we're talking about people's lives -- especially when there are other proven people waiting in the wings.

    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Street Philosopher:
    <strong>It seems that they recruited based on Christina's potential, whereas most other applicants are accepted based on what they had proven. It's sort of like the NBA draft... teams draft high schoolers who've proven nothing but are "big, physical, and athletic" over people who were college all-americans.

    not sure there is a point to this, even though Kwame Brown is a bust and Battier is a solid rookie... because of course there is always Kobe.

    enjoy your saturday.

    PS: When does Christina open up her office in Beverly Hills?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
     
  42. Mr.D

    Mr.D insipidus maximus

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    Just to keep the numbers straight from the article, she had :

    &lt;3.0 under. GPA from MIT
    3.7 grad. GPA from Fresno State

    1st MCAT no prep course - not stated
    2nd MCAT w/ prep course - ~23 MCAT*

    *20-30% below ave. accepted MCAT for UC Davis.
     
  43. Ryo-Ohki

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    It is a travesty when a Hispanic American with low 20s MCAT and less then a 3.0 GPA can not be admitted to the finest medical schools. Obviously, because she's an URM, all GPA and MCAT regulations must be waived. It makes me sick to be an American when I see that she has to be judged on her academic merits, instead of her race.

    Seriously though, she's an anti-AA success story. She did not belong in medical school with her academic efforts and achievement in her first attempt. Because of Prop 209 and other anti-AA measures, she strove and achieved closer to her full potential.
     
  44. migs54

    migs54 Junior Member

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    3.7 grad GPA is just an A- which is average for grad school so what the big deal with that, also most people know that grad school course work is much easier than undergrad work. I don't think it is so much the story that has me so infruiated but more so the way the author made it sound like it would be a grave injustice if this girl didnt go to med school.
     
  45. Ryo-Ohki

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    <img border="0" alt="[Pissy]" title="" src="graemlins/pissy.gif" />
     
  46. Jonny-5

    Jonny-5 Member

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    This reminds me of the story of Dr. Patrick Chavis of Los Angeles. He was the poster boy for AA before the anti-AA movement in California--an african american student admitted to UC Davis under a special minority recruitment program who went on to practice in Compton. He also was covered by the LA Times as an AA success story.

    Of course, the LA Times barely covered it when he lost his license for "gross negligence". Look it up.

    The New York Times, Wall Street Journal and Washington Post all wrote interesting pieces on him.
     
  47. Michelys

    Michelys Senior Member

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    <img border="0" alt="[Laughy]" title="" src="graemlins/laughy.gif" /> ...where is everbody fiiiiinding these articles at?! Like all these cool MD related ones! <img border="0" alt="[Laughy]" title="" src="graemlins/laughy.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Laughy]" title="" src="graemlins/laughy.gif" /> Jonny-5, can you try to post the link for what you pointed out--it'll help me alot! Thanks :D :p
     
  48. Ryo-Ohki

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    Wow, you mean there are negative consequences for accepting medical students on the basis on race rather then merit?
     
  49. Jonny-5

    Jonny-5 Member

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    Here's a Boston Globe Article: <a href="http://216.239.39.100/search?q=cache:N9mr_M0XcQ8C:www.bigeye.com/jj081497.htm+patrick+chavis+story&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&e=619" target="_blank">GLOBE</a>

    And a National Review Article:
    <a href="http://216.239.51.100/search?q=cache:bjfKa7DWeZMC:www.uiowa.edu/~030116/116/articles/heriot.htm+patrick+chavis++Times+Lemann&hl=en&ie=UTF-8" target="_blank">NATIONAL REVIEW</a>

    Still working on others as they are hard to find online (check out your library's microfilm for hours of fun).

    Also check out the landmark case Bakke vs. Board of Regents. One of the first reverse discrimination cases.
     
  50. Cambrian

    Cambrian Colonel/Senior Member

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Ryo-Ohki:
    <strong>Wow, you mean there are negative consequences for accepting medical students on the basis on race rather then merit?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">--I'm having a lot of trouble picking out your sarcasm--???

    Of course there are negative consequences to accepting people merely based on race instead of academic merits. It's bad to accept people merely on the basis of race whether they are white, hispanic or asian. I understand that there is a desperate need for minority physicians but accepting applicants merely on the basis of their race as a minority is horrendous. I think that the article was biased. I'm glad that she got in but her academic credentials are highly suspect. There are many qualified URM applicants out there. If medical schools continue to accept minority applicants with very low GPA and MCAT just because they are URM, then they are perpetuating the myth that URM's have low GPA and MCAT. I'll look forward to the day when race does not play a role in anything.
     
  51. Jonny-5

    Jonny-5 Member

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    Here is NY Times reporter Nicholas Lemann's PRO Chavis article which was written before Chavis' "downfall":
    <a href="http://216.239.51.100/search?q=cache:fjrRMNWNTbIC:www.bamn.com/resources/950611-nyt-taking-apart.htm+patrick+chavis++Times+Lemann&hl=en&ie=UTF-8" target="_blank">NY TIMES</a>
     
  52. UCLA2000

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    I found two interesting quotes in the article...

    "Latinos, for instance, make up about 30% of the state's population, but only about 4.8% of the state's licensed physicians. "

    " Minority Medical Students
    California's nine medical schools are struggling to increase the number of black, Latino and other underrepresented minority students. These minorities have dropped from a peak of 19% of all first-year medical students in 1993 to 12% last fall. The steepest drops came after the UC Board of Regents banned affirmative action in 1995, and California voters broadened the ban by approving Proposition 209 in 1996. "

    It's a touching story...but in my opinion, by using someone with such low scores they did nothing else except perpetuate the myth that minority students (such as myself) didn't earn tour way into med school.

    I've even heard some nonminority students go so far as to say that they wouldn't study with latino or african american students because they feared that they could be products of affirmative action (and would hold them back.)
     

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