Is it worth it?

[RockDoc7]

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I understand that this is a personal question needed to be done with soul searching of my own; of which I have been and will continue to do. But the time spent, the money needed (loans), marriage/family life, the length of time, etc. is it worth the sacrifices necessary to go to medical school and become a medical doctor (specifically as a non-trad)?

I know I'm not the only one who has weighed the checks and balances before me; all have to some extent. Thus I ensue a positive and safe place for conversation, thoughts, and struggles to be shared in this thread.

I myself am a married non-trad pre-med switching from social work to medicine and have had many conversations with my wife about the sacrifices needed of us both to make MD/DO possible; including going the post-bacc route. They have not always been pleasant and light-hearted conversations but have always been in love. Some of our concerns have been further loan debt atop by undergrad, financial strain and obligation for her to work to support us while I'd be in school, when to start having kids with school and work in the picture, and making sure we have time to feel loved and supported by one another with time off.

Thank you for any and all thoughts.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

I think the majority opinion on here will be that of course it is worth "it". Defining what that "it" is is the tough part. I'm an MS3 in my mid-30's who had two prior careers before starting back at school to knock off a few dangling prereqs and wouldn't really change anything about it so far. I've been blessed with good luck through the entire process however, in addition to being on the upper end of grades/MCAT/EC's and having a SO who makes a pretty considerable income, so my happiness isn't easy to recreate for everyone. I'm one of the cadre of Debbie Downers who usually try to inject a little reality into some of the posts around here (which some people hate) because although it's been relatively easy for me, that is not the case for everyone and I recognize that lots of luck has gone into it that again isn't easy to just make happen from nothing. It is a wonderful career and path, but it is long and has sacrifices that have to be reckoned with before you start. Understand that getting into med school isn't the goal; it is part of a long series of discrete decisions/forks in the road. Getting into med school doesn't mean happiness. Happiness is practicing the specialty you are passionate about in the place that you want to live in the work/life arrangement that best suits you and your family. To get there requires a lot more that getting into med school. Knocking off an acceptable MCAT score doesn't get you across the finish line, and getting in doesn't mean that you are done with having to be stressed about decisions and are finally free of worry about being knocked off your path. Just develop and hold onto a long view of where you're going and what it takes to get there. Sounds like you're starting with a much better than average understanding of what you are wading into, and this can be a place that fills in every question you could ever have, which is amazing.

PS: I'm finally about to be able to start climbing a bit again. Took a whip in JTree in Nov and broke my talus and am finally getting to where I can wear/fall a bit in climbing shoes. Itching to get back on it. Med school in California...has many benefits 🙂

 

[Goro]

Look, Medicine is a calling, like being a fireman or a priest. If it's worth it, you'll know in your heart.

There's no good time to have kids in a medical career, except when you're Professor Emeritus, so go ahead and have them where you're heart says it's time. I've have plenty of students who have had children in med school; I've single moms as students. So *that* should not be holding you back.

Debt?? Feh! Once you finish your residency and take a position, you'll be making a nice six-figure salary (a LOT more than I make) so I'm not too sympathetic. Just don't buy a house at the same time.

I understand that this is a personal question needed to be done with soul searching of my own; of which I have been and will continue to do. But the time spent, the money needed (loans), marriage/family life, the length of time, etc. is it worth the sacrifices necessary to go to medical school and become a medical doctor (specifically as a non-trad)?

I know I'm not the only one who has weighed the checks and balances before me; all have to some extent. Thus I ensue a positive and safe place for conversation, thoughts, and struggles to be shared in this thread.

I myself am a married non-trad pre-med switching from social work to medicine and have had many conversations with my wife about the sacrifices needed of us both to make MD/DO possible; including going the post-bacc route. They have not always been pleasant and light-hearted conversations but have always been in love. Some of our concerns have been further loan debt atop by undergrad, financial strain and obligation for her to work to support us while I'd be in school, when to start having kids with school and work in the picture, and making sure we have time to feel loved and supported by one another with time off.

Thank you for any and all thoughts.

 

[mspeedwagon]

The answer based on the OldPreMeds conference is NO, UNLESS medicine is your true calling. Think of it this way, if medicine kills your relationship, doesn't do much for you financially and puts a ton of stress on you, is it worth it to you?

To me, it is, as I don't see myself doing anything else. I'm already in the 6 figure club (doesn't mean much in the Bay Area), but would be happy to take a cut to live a dream. Medicine is a calling.

I understand that this is a personal question needed to be done with soul searching of my own; of which I have been and will continue to do. But the time spent, the money needed (loans), marriage/family life, the length of time, etc. is it worth the sacrifices necessary to go to medical school and become a medical doctor (specifically as a non-trad)?

 

[QofQuimica]

I went to med school as a single person with no family, no debt, and no obligations, and I still would not do it again if I had the chance to go back and start over. The sacrifices have greatly outweighed the rewards for me. So would I have gone to med school as a married person whose wife wanted to have kids and stay home with them and was worried about the debt? Heck no. But that's me. As you already pointed out, the only one who can answer this question in your case is you (along with your wife).

Have you done any shadowing or clinical volunteering yet? If not, that's the place to start. Also, I'd recommend letting as many people as possible try to talk you out of doing this. If you still want to do it in spite of knowing what a crazy idea it is, then maybe that's your answer.

Hope this helps, and best of luck.

Debt?? Feh! Once you finish your residency and take a position, you'll be making a nice six-figure salary (a LOT more than I make) so I'm not too sympathetic. Just don't buy a house at the same time.

Strongly disagree with this mindset. Unfortunately, people's tastes for the good life tend to increase commensurate with their incomes, and there are a lot of cash poor, highly in debt docs out there. Not to mention that med school tuition and loan amounts have been skyrocketing with no relief in sight.

Off topic and out of curiosity, what do you do, Goro? Admissions office administrator?

 

[RockDoc7]

Pons:
Thank you for your honest post. There's always the commodity of luck that encircles ones life circumsances. I'm happy to hear that yours went so well for you. And nothing wrong with some reality based feedback; I know that very well within my profession of mental health ha. Glad you're climbing again too. I had a torn ligament in my ankle from down climbing a high baller; put me out for a year. but am now back stronger than ever. I do miss living and climbing in So Cal though. Good on ya mate. Also, I'd like to PM you about your experience with the Navy?

Goro:
You're right, it is a calling and thus there is tension as I do feel quite led to the profession, see it as a good fit (as does my wife), and see it as mutually beneficial for my world and the world around me. It does scare me from reading blogs, SDN threads, and watching documentaries like "Doctors Diaries" about relationships being killed. But I also feel confident and hopeful about my perspective of life that that will never happen; so some intrinsic tension there as well. Regarding your comment about 6 figure salary, though there may be some validity to that, I would have to agree with the more accepted and reality based view of Q.

Q:
Am I misreading your first comment? "I went to med school as a single person with no family, no debt, and no obligations, and I still would not do it again if I had the chance to go back and start over. The sacrifices have greatly outweighed the rewards for me." This sounds self-cancelling. Thank you for your opinion on the matter. In fact, I'm reading through some of the non-trad stickies right now ha. As far as shadowing, I have shadowed 3 physicians thus far, work directly with psychiatrists all day for inpatient psych, and am an EMT. Would that work? I do still plan on shadowing more physicians. But so far I get pretty excited each time I do, feeling re-confirmed. There certainly are people in my life that weigh against me the "nature of the beast" and thus far continue to come out with the intent to be a medical doctor; though obviously from this post there is some ambivalence.

 

[QofQuimica]

Q:
Am I misreading your first comment? "I went to med school as a single person with no family, no debt, and no obligations, and I still would not do it again if I had the chance to go back and start over. The sacrifices have greatly outweighed the rewards for me." This sounds self-cancelling. Thank you for your opinion on the matter. In fact, I'm reading through some of the non-trad stickies right now ha. As far as shadowing, I have shadowed 3 physicians thus far, work directly with psychiatrists all day for inpatient psych, and am an EMT. Would that work? I do still plan on shadowing more physicians. But so far I get pretty excited each time I do, feeling re-confirmed. There certainly are people in my life that weigh against me the "nature of the beast" and thus far continue to come out with the intent to be a medical doctor; though obviously from this post there is some ambivalence.

I don't know how you're reading it, but my apologies if there are too many double negatives. To be absolutely clear, I regret having gone to medical school. And I did it under the best possible circumstances: no spouse, no dependents, no pre-med debt, no med school debt (I was fully scholarshipped), no major obstacles of any kind. Had I been dealing with some of your "ambivalence," it would make the decision a no-brainer for me. Ultimately what it comes down to is that I have not enjoyed being a physician. The good news though is that the MD/DO is a flexible degree, and I am very excited about doing a fellowship for a subspecialty I do love. Still have to get through one more year of residency first though.

From what you're saying, it sounds like you have some idea of what you're getting yourself into. In that case, get your wife totally on board and hang on, because it's a wild ride.

 

[RockDoc7]

I don't know how you're reading it, but my apologies if there are too many double negatives. To be absolutely clear, I regret having gone to medical school. And I did it under the best possible circumstances: no spouse, no dependents, no pre-med debt, no med school debt (I was fully scholarshipped), no major obstacles of any kind. Had I been dealing with some of your "ambivalence," it would make the decision a no-brainer for me. Ultimately what it comes down to is that I have not enjoyed being a physician. The good news though is that the MD/DO is a flexible degree, and I am very excited about doing a fellowship for a subspecialty I do love. Still have to get through one more year of residency first though.

From what you're saying, it sounds like you have some idea of what you're getting yourself into. In that case, get your wife totally on board and hang on, because it's a wild ride.

Ha, thanks Q. It is interesting to hear the regret as it is a first for me to read but refreshing to hear the honesty. May I ask what it is you regret? What is it that you will be fellowshipping in? I hope you have a great finising to your residency.

 

[WaterPog]

I've had this question about a great many things over the past few years, not just med. school but relationships and school in general. My thinking always works out like this:

"If I had won the lottery yesterday would I still be doing this?"

If I can honestly answer yes that that's the right path, if not then I need to re-evaluate. Now that's not the question for daily purchases and such but for big "life path" decisions it works pretty well.

 

[mspeedwagon]

I love how you clarified that this wasn't for daily purchases. There is a Ferrari showroom not too far from me, and while I do like my Camry a lot (although it's now a decade old), the thought of picking up a Ferrari has crossed my mind. And, if I won the lottery yesterday, well....

I like to think of it another way. What is your dream? What are you willing to sacrifice to accomplish it? And do the pros out weigh the cons?

I feel most people that regret medicine went in under the best circumstances not realizing what they were giving up and then regret their choice. For others, any sacrifice makes the goal worthwhile (divorce, debt, loosing connection with folks, joining the military, moving to a new city (or country etc.).

We'll see where I fall long-term, but I remain hopeful.

"If I had won the lottery yesterday would I still be doing this?"

If I can honestly answer yes that that's the right path, if not then I need to re-evaluate. Now that's not the question for daily purchases and such but for big "life path" decisions it works pretty well.

 

[docelh]

Some people go into pre-med knowing this is absolutely what they want to do, and then they come out changing their mind for a variety of reasons. Or they don´t and remain committed to it.

It´s okay to start this process not being sure and to use the process as a form of self-discovery. That´s what I did. In the end, I can still imagine myself doing other things because I think a person is multi-dimensional. But overall, I decided that the advantages of pursuing this field outweighed its disadvantages. Those advantages were personal, and only incidentally-related to the field´s compensation. It doesn´t hurt that it´s among the most desirable and highly-esteemed of the professions, if not at the top world-wide.

I´d say this: would you still pursue this field if at best you´ll break-even financially? In other words, you would have done just as well financially going into another field like engineering.

 

[theSmurfette]

I understand that this is a personal question needed to be done with soul searching of my own; of which I have been and will continue to do. But the time spent, the money needed (loans), marriage/family life, the length of time, etc. is it worth the sacrifices necessary to go to medical school and become a medical doctor (specifically as a non-trad)?

I know I'm not the only one who has weighed the checks and balances before me; all have to some extent. Thus I ensue a positive and safe place for conversation, thoughts, and struggles to be shared in this thread.

I myself am a married non-trad pre-med switching from social work to medicine and have had many conversations with my wife about the sacrifices needed of us both to make MD/DO possible; including going the post-bacc route. They have not always been pleasant and light-hearted conversations but have always been in love. Some of our concerns have been further loan debt atop by undergrad, financial strain and obligation for her to work to support us while I'd be in school, when to start having kids with school and work in the picture, and making sure we have time to feel loved and supported by one another with time off.

Thank you for any and all thoughts.

I'm not there yet but hopefully it happens this year. This is my fourth cycle. By the time I matriculate (assuming I get in this year), I will be 32 and a full 5 years since I returned to school. I'm married with two kids--ages 5 & 7. It has been hard. I worked nights and weekends as a tech in the ED while I did my undergrad prereqs. Then I moved away this last year to do an SMP and only came home on the weekends. Without my husband, who has supported me through this whole thing, I would not have made it. You have to make this decision with your spouse. You, as a couple, will not make it otherwise.

But, like others have said, it is truly a passion. Now that I've found this field, I cannot see myself doing anything else. I've been out of the hospital for a year now and I miss it like nothing else. It is a sacrifice. Only you can decide if it is all worth what you will have to put into it. When I made the decision to go back to school, at 27, former HS math teacher, I truly questioned if this was where I was supposed to be--if I was trying to push my way to here or if this was where I was meant to be.

I'm probably not the most ideal person to ask if it is worth it. But, it's 4 years later, still not in medical school; still have no guarantees. I still think that everything is worth it.

 

[QofQuimica]

Ha, thanks Q. It is interesting to hear the regret as it is a first for me to read but refreshing to hear the honesty. May I ask what it is you regret? What is it that you will be fellowshipping in? I hope you have a great finising to your residency.

If I could do it all again, I'd have done pharmacy instead of medicine. It's much more in keeping with my interests, and I could have gotten into a similar career via the pharmacy route in much less time than it's taking me to get there via the medicine route. People talk about how fascinating the human body is, and some of it is, but a lot of med school is sheer memorization and boring as all get out. Practicing medicine as a resident has been largely a mixture of boredom and terror with a few meaningful patient interactions sprinkled in here and there among the rest of it. As I just told someone else who PMed me about this topic, what it comes down to is that I'd rather be the one advising physicians on how to properly use drugs than be the one prescribing them.

I've had this question about a great many things over the past few years, not just med. school but relationships and school in general. My thinking always works out like this:

"If I had won the lottery yesterday would I still be doing this?"

If I can honestly answer yes that that's the right path, if not then I need to re-evaluate. Now that's not the question for daily purchases and such but for big "life path" decisions it works pretty well.

If I won the lottery, I would do my program director the courtesy of stopping by his office to let him know I was leaving on my way out. 😉

 

[JourneyAgent]

If I could do it all again, I'd have done pharmacy instead of medicine. It's much more in keeping with my interests, and I could have gotten into a similar career via the pharmacy route in much less time than it's taking me to get there via the medicine route. People talk about how fascinating the human body is, and some of it is, but a lot of med school is sheer memorization and boring as all get out. Practicing medicine as a resident has been largely a mixture of boredom and terror with a few meaningful patient interactions sprinkled in here and there among the rest of it. As I just told someone else who PMed me about this topic, what it comes down to is that I'd rather be the one advising physicians on how to properly use drugs than be the one prescribing them.


If I won the lottery, I would do my program director the courtesy of stopping by his office to let him know I was leaving on my way out. 😉

nice.

I have a theory that this monastic view of a medical career is the same circumstance that engenders fervor, devotion, evangelical certitude and the like in other settings: a highly mythologized reward, a worldly competition for it, the prestige of holiness, a communion with higher powers (the lords of medicine in our case), a watchful New Testament omniscience to our every move (clinical rotations), and enormous sacrifice that requires a justification.

Happiness is only the product of these things if you are ascetic in nature.

But for those of us no like irony, music, sex, narrative, comedy, rebellion, and thinking for ourselves medicine can tend towards the desolate. There is a poverty of thought and creativity in medicine. People who excel at it make powerful, unerring statements about their ability to eat another animal whole like a giant python. It's a reptilian process. There's nothing warm, fuzzy, or mammalian about it.

Many achieve happiness in medicine at some distant future when they are able to dictate a balance in their work/home/play life.

Recreation is just that...re-CREATION. Medical school is not a passionate pursuit, and can be a death march and a dullification of the senses.

All that I have found worthy of passion is at the far fringes of medicine where philosophy, culture, humor, and narrative creatures live.

But...don't listen to this beggar by the road. Carry on with your crusades. Doubtless, heaven awaits and cheers the trials of the pure.

 

[Balantidiumcoli]

People talk about how fascinating the human body is, and some of it is, but a lot of med school is sheer memorization and boring as all get out.

But don't you like the fact you know what a semitendinosus is? Or the pisiform?

 

[QofQuimica]

But don't you like the fact you know what a semitendinosus is? Or the pisiform?

Heh, I just looked up semitendinosus on wikipedia, but I do remember the wrist bones. There was a good mnemonic for them: some lovers try positions that they can't handle.

I'd totally have flunked anatomy if it weren't for mnemonics....

 

[Balantidiumcoli]

There was a good mnemonic for them: some lovers try positions that they can't handle.

Haha. Nice.

My thought process was along the lines of:

Trapezium wants to be a trapezoid shape and he sees a cap wearing ham.

Hysterically useless information.

 

[yossarian444]

If I won the lottery, I would do my program director the courtesy of stopping by his office to let him know I was leaving on my way out. 😉

Haha! Yeah, twice a day when walking to/from parking garage I can see one of those powerball/megamilions billboards. I end up thinking quite a bit about what I'd do. I'd like to say I'd finish residency...but, in all reality, I probably wouldn't. I'd inevitably have a bad day some time in the weeks after winning and I'd just quit on the spot, maybe even pulling a Jerry Maguire type exit.

OP: Who knows if it is really worth it. Even after finishing my first year of residency I'm on the fence as to whether I'd do it all over again. I met my spouse in med school, so I guess that sort of confuses the question. While residency sucks, I'm mostly happy with the specialty I chose and have hopes for my future. But, unlike Q, I'm over 300K in debt which depresses me as I feel like I'm going to be forced to find a job somewhere I don't want to live in order to get a higher salary.

 

[Aminex]

Although it's pure silliness now on the other side, I had what I thought was the lottery analogy happen to me. I graduated in 2002 from pre-med undergrad and had a met a girl I was crazy about. I decided just to be happy with her a bit before resuming the march to med school. Her father accidentally electrocuted himself while changing his furnace filter and she was the sole beneficiary. 500K of life insurance and retirement benefits came our way at 23 and 20, respectively. We got married and went ape*(#&. New house, new car, new pool, trips and all other types of nonsense.

Although we are still happily married, we are now at 34 and 31 with nothing to show for it but the house. We blew it and still have all that undergrad. debt. I've suffered through menial employment because I thought I was hot s*(& enough to not have to work and it made employers suspicious. I can't just say "took some time off to ball out of control". It is true that it's nobody's fault but mine. It also wasn't the money's fault and in some ways, we are smarter and stronger since experience is a brutally effective teacher. Gandhi was right when he said wealth without work creates violence. It first destroys you and then you destroy everything around you with greed. Now I realize that 500K is a lot but not as much as one might think and if you spend it rather than invest/save it, it feels more like $50. I want to return to medicine but it creates a crisis of confidence when you blow it that badly over such a long period of time and can only point to things like Wal-Mart, nurse aide and lab assistant because you were too broke and desperate to pass it up.

Anyway, tl;dr don't quit anything if you receive a large sum of money--you'll regret it.

 

[JourneyAgent]

Although it's pure silliness now on the other side, I had what I thought was the lottery analogy happen to me. I graduated in 2002 from pre-med undergrad and had a met a girl I was crazy about. I decided just to be happy with her a bit before resuming the march to med school. Her father accidentally electrocuted himself while changing his furnace filter and she was the sole beneficiary. 500K of life insurance and retirement benefits came our way at 23 and 20, respectively. We got married and went ape*(#&. New house, new car, new pool, trips and all other types of nonsense.

Although we are still happily married, we are now at 34 and 31 with nothing to show for it but the house. We blew it and still have all that undergrad. debt. I've suffered through menial employment because I thought I was hot s*(& enough to not have to work and it made employers suspicious. I can't just say "took some time off to ball out of control". It is true that it's nobody's fault but mine. It also wasn't the money's fault and in some ways, we are smarter and stronger since experience is a brutally effective teacher. Gandhi was right when he said wealth without work creates violence. It first destroys you and then you destroy everything around you with greed. Now I realize that 500K is a lot but not as much as one might think and if you spend it rather than invest/save it, it feels more like $50. I want to return to medicine but it creates a crisis of confidence when you blow it that badly over such a long period of time and can only point to things like Wal-Mart, nurse aide and lab assistant because you were too broke and desperate to pass it up.

Anyway, tl;dr don't quit anything if you receive a large sum of money--you'll regret it.

That's an interesting and effective refutation of the wealth as exit idea. I actually agree with you. And to some extent I believe your point serves my argument against "The Calling" motif in that satisfied involvement in a self-directed learning process is the foundation for happiness.

Whereas the monastic trope has more utility in sacrificing fun than creating it.

 

[biphasicdream]

Look, Medicine is a calling, like being a fireman or a priest. If it's worth it, you'll know in your heart.

There's no good time to have kids in a medical career, except when you're Professor Emeritus, so go ahead and have them where you're heart says it's time. I've have plenty of students who have had children in med school; I've single moms as students. So *that* should not be holding you back.

Debt?? Feh! Once you finish your residency and take a position, you'll be making a nice six-figure salary (a LOT more than I make) so I'm not too sympathetic. Just don't buy a house at the same time.

I agree here for the most part. I agree medicine is a calling, but not everyone is academically inclined to do medicine.

 

[wholeheartedly]

I'd totally have flunked anatomy if it weren't for mnemonics....

You also win 50 cool points for spelling mnemonic right for the first time that I've seen on this board in recent history.

👍

 

[rick235]

It's been worth it to me. I'm an MS4 about to apply for residencies now. Have 1 kid and another on the way. Med school is a lot of work, but I've enjoyed it way more than my old career, engineer.

With regards to debt and time commitments, I think you just have to be smart about it. Go to school in a city where you have family to help with kids, or to a city with a low cost of living so your spouse's money goes further. Maybe you can live with relatives during school? Go to the cheapest school possible. Pick a specialty with a decent work life balance. Be willing to take your first job with an employer who will pay some to your loans. If your spouse is supportive and you can't see yourself being happy in another career, go for it.

 

[RockDoc7]

nice.

I have a theory that this monastic view of a medical career is the same circumstance that engenders fervor, devotion, evangelical certitude and the like in other settings: a highly mythologized reward, a worldly competition for it, the prestige of holiness, a communion with higher powers (the lords of medicine in our case), a watchful New Testament omniscience to our every move (clinical rotations), and enormous sacrifice that requires a justification.

Happiness is only the product of these things if you are ascetic in nature.

But for those of us no like irony, music, sex, narrative, comedy, rebellion, and thinking for ourselves medicine can tend towards the desolate. There is a poverty of thought and creativity in medicine. People who excel at it make powerful, unerring statements about their ability to eat another animal whole like a giant python. It's a reptilian process. There's nothing warm, fuzzy, or mammalian about it.

Many achieve happiness in medicine at some distant future when they are able to dictate a balance in their work/home/play life.

Recreation is just that...re-CREATION. Medical school is not a passionate pursuit, and can be a death march and a dullification of the senses.

All that I have found worthy of passion is at the far fringes of medicine where philosophy, culture, humor, and narrative creatures live.

But...don't listen to this beggar by the road. Carry on with your crusades. Doubtless, heaven awaits and cheers the trials of the pure.

Quite the poetic interpretation. It is well received and appreciated.

I agree that as a life ethos happiness ought not to be the pursuit, but something more fulfilling of joy. I do not see joy and happiness as the same - happiness being a fleeting emotion wheras joy a deeply intrisic value of ones life.

Thus for me, I am not considering going to medical school to become a medical doctor for the deceptive perception of happiness, but rather as the fulfillment of what we believe God is calling my wife and I into. Though obviously the struggle and resistance with questioning is present.

It seems that my original post of "Is it worth it?" ought more to have been, "How you came to the conclusion that it is worth the pursuit?"

 

[RockDoc7]

It's been worth it to me. I'm an MS4 about to apply for residencies now. Have 1 kid and another on the way. Med school is a lot of work, but I've enjoyed it way more than my old career, engineer.

With regards to debt and time commitments, I think you just have to be smart about it. Go to school in a city where you have family to help with kids, or to a city with a low cost of living so your spouse's money goes further. Maybe you can live with relatives during school? Go to the cheapest school possible. Pick a specialty with a decent work life balance. Be willing to take your first job with an employer who will pay some to your loans. If your spouse is supportive and you can't see yourself being happy in another career, go for it.

Glad to hear that it has been worth it to you. Congrats on making it to where you are now. Why did you want to switch careers? Seems engineering is a semi-common profession to switch into medicine from.

I greatly appreciate the constructive advice; we will very much consider your aforementioned. If you don't mind me asking, does your wife also work or is she a stay at home mother? To what degree is it straining finding the time to balance school and family?

 

[Goro]

Faculty with >16 years experience
Admissions Committee >10 years

Off topic and out of curiosity, what do you do, Goro? Admissions office administrator?[/QUOTE]

 

[rick235]

Glad to hear that it has been worth it to you. Congrats on making it to where you are now. Why did you want to switch careers? Seems engineering is a semi-common profession to switch into medicine from.

I greatly appreciate the constructive advice; we will very much consider your aforementioned. If you don't mind me asking, does your wife also work or is she a stay at home mother? To what degree is it straining finding the time to balance school and family?

Engineering is impersonal. I wanted something where I could make a tangible difference for an individual and see the results of my work after a relatively short turnaround.

My wife works part time. It is hard to balance everything. You just have to tell your family that some months are going to be worse than others, and you have to make the most out of the time you have together.

 

[RockDoc7]

Engineering is impersonal. I wanted something where I could make a tangible difference for an individual and see the results of my work after a relatively short turnaround.

My wife works part time. It is hard to balance everything. You just have to tell your family that some months are going to be worse than others, and you have to make the most out of the time you have together.

Grazie rick235.

 

[UnlikelyDoc]

I think the answer depends largely on when you ask. Right now for instance, it's 3:30 am and because I have boards in a few days I'll be in Uworld for probably two more hours before getting the requisite three hours of sleep. If I recycle all of these monster cans, I could probably pay off my debt. I've only seen my wife and kids passing in the hallway for the last month or so, and I haven't shaved in so long that every time I come out of the basement someone thinks they've finally found Bigfoot. Exams are a cruel mistress, and they don't give a damn about dance recitals or birthdays or my SEVERE ethanol deficiency. So this week? Not so much, and there are many weeks like this, and always will be.

Having said that, the moments that shine in this racket are beyond that of most any other discipline. We get to perform well child physicals on underprivileged kids who have conditions that would otherwise go untreated. We see people at their most frightened and vulnerable and get to be the ones who are trusted to allay those fears. I went to a village in South America last year and on a mountain with no electricity or running water treated hundreds of parasitic infections, infected wounds, vitamin deficiencies, and many other conditions. As we drove out of the village the mayor stopped our convoy with many of the mountain's residents behind him and presented us with the highest form of currency he knew, a six and a half foot arm of bananas cultivated on his own soil. These experiences are extremely powerful, and you'd never get them as an architect or petroleum engineer. I dont think I could choose any other life. Plus, we look pretty cool in scrubs.

 

[The_Sunny_Doc]

nice.

I have a theory that this monastic view of a medical career is the same circumstance that engenders fervor, devotion, evangelical certitude and the like in other settings: a highly mythologized reward, a worldly competition for it, the prestige of holiness, a communion with higher powers (the lords of medicine in our case), a watchful New Testament omniscience to our every move (clinical rotations), and enormous sacrifice that requires a justification.

Happiness is only the product of these things if you are ascetic in nature.

But for those of us no like irony, music, sex, narrative, comedy, rebellion, and thinking for ourselves medicine can tend towards the desolate. There is a poverty of thought and creativity in medicine. People who excel at it make powerful, unerring statements about their ability to eat another animal whole like a giant python. It's a reptilian process. There's nothing warm, fuzzy, or mammalian about it.

Many achieve happiness in medicine at some distant future when they are able to dictate a balance in their work/home/play life.

Recreation is just that...re-CREATION. Medical school is not a passionate pursuit, and can be a death march and a dullification of the senses.

All that I have found worthy of passion is at the far fringes of medicine where philosophy, culture, humor, and narrative creatures live.

But...don't listen to this beggar by the road. Carry on with your crusades. Doubtless, heaven awaits and cheers the trials of the pure.

That's... kind of depressing. Is there really no room for the creative, innovative mind in medicine? Does anyone care to refute this?

Perhaps all of that comes much later when you are established in the field, and have the credibility to pioneer treatments. I know it'll be drudgery for a long time, but it would be nice to think that the inventors/entrepreneurial types who go into medicine eventually get to flex their muscles. Can anyone weigh in on this?

 

[JourneyAgent]

That's... kind of depressing. Is there really no room for the creative, innovative mind in medicine? Does anyone care to refute this?

Perhaps all of that comes much later when you are established in the field, and have the credibility to pioneer treatments. I know it'll be drudgery for a long time, but it would be nice to think that the inventors/entrepreneurial types who go into medicine eventually get to flex their muscles. Can anyone weigh in on this?

I refute it myself. I meant to describe the formative pressures not the individual's response to them.

 

[The_Sunny_Doc]

I refute it myself. I meant to describe the formative pressures not the individual's response to them.

Care to elaborate on your individual response?

Your diction is... kind of extraordinary, haha. Refreshingly grandiose.

 

[JourneyAgent]

Care to elaborate on your individual response?

Your diction is... kind of extraordinary, haha. Refreshingly grandiose.

Pretty simple. I do a lot of what I enjoy. I don't have have children, so it's easy for me. I couldn't do both, some could. Maybe because what I enjoy is long introspective forays into my own curiosities and amusements. And I do lots of yoga. I'm also a world-renowned zen master is self sexual pleasure. The frontiers I've surpassed would blow your mind. The likes of which are far to grandiose to be compressed into an impoverished medium such as this.

 

[Gfliptastic]

I'm in an ICU rotation right now. And it validates a lot of my own personal response to whether changing careers to go thru all the sacrifices is/was worth it.

Pons threw down a good post. Maybe my rambling can enhance or refresh some of it. Cuz the "it" is the most important part.

Why I say ICU helps me w/ my own response to the question, is that IT for me is and was being able to affect my community and society one individual at a time. It's idealistic, yes, but why do any of us start down the path? Isn't there SOME idealism involved?

The reason why ICU specifically, is because it's so multidisciplinary. Our rounds involves, nurses, social work, PA's, pharmacists, dieticians, techs. In all "generic terms", any of those healthcare workers affects the individual care of the patient. HOWEVER, it is specifically the doctor's role that is the most integral.

It is the most unique position/occupation out of any healthcare profession that is absolutely linked to your own knowledge and expertise of the practice of medicine. The most comprehensive out of all of them. It is the least limited position in healthcare (yeah w/o getting into bureaucracy as to not add a tangent).

Granted veterans and experts in their own disciplines can possibly match a doctor in patient management in most ordinary situations, however, when the s*** hits the fan, like in the ICU, the doctor leads the way. When an 89 year old woman w/ cellulitis goes into a-fib w/ RVR while desat'ing to 75 on bipap while she's on a laundry list of medications, I can't say it any other way (sorry to other professions) but I honestly don't think any one of the other fields can handle that very specific situation in it's entirety from beginning to end. HOWEVER, trained physicians can and do. I am amazed that by the time I am board certified and fully trained as a medical doctor, I am allowed to care for patients in a way ONLY a physician can.

THAT is my it, in a nutshell. Ask yourself how specific is yours. Cuz you'll need to know, should you pursue this and be asked during a med school interview.

IT was and always will be worth it to me. Since I started 3rd year, I have never ever woken up not completely excited to be in this training & learning process. This past year I've been sleep-deprived, prodromal, hungover, physically exhausted, but FML has never crossed my mind once because I had to get up early in the AM and go to the hospital.

Preclinical (1st and 2nd year) on the other hand LOL I'd say that was pretty much everyday. Ask yourself if you can do that for 2 years LOL

Totally worth it for me tho!

 

[The_Sunny_Doc]

I'm in an ICU rotation right now. And it validates a lot of my own personal response to whether changing careers to go thru all the sacrifices is/was worth it.

Pons threw down a good post. Maybe my rambling can enhance or refresh some of it. Cuz the "it" is the most important part.

Why I say ICU helps me w/ my own response to the question, is that IT for me is and was being able to affect my community and society one individual at a time. It's idealistic, yes, but why do any of us start down the path? Isn't there SOME idealism involved?

The reason why ICU specifically, is because it's so multidisciplinary. Our rounds involves, nurses, social work, PA's, pharmacists, dieticians, techs. In all "generic terms", any of those healthcare workers affects the individual care of the patient. HOWEVER, it is specifically the doctor's role that is the most integral.

It is the most unique position/occupation out of any healthcare profession that is absolutely linked to your own knowledge and expertise of the practice of medicine. The most comprehensive out of all of them. It is the least limited position in healthcare (yeah w/o getting into bureaucracy as to not add a tangent).

Granted veterans and experts in their own disciplines can possibly match a doctor in patient management in most ordinary situations, however, when the s*** hits the fan, like in the ICU, the doctor leads the way. When an 89 year old woman w/ cellulitis goes into a-fib w/ RVR while desat'ing to 75 on bipap while she's on a laundry list of medications, I can't say it any other way (sorry to other professions) but I honestly don't think any one of the other fields can handle that very specific situation in it's entirety from beginning to end. HOWEVER, trained physicians can and do. I am amazed that by the time I am board certified and fully trained as a medical doctor, I am allowed to care for patients in a way ONLY a physician can.

THAT is my it, in a nutshell. Ask yourself how specific is yours. Cuz you'll need to know, should you pursue this and be asked during a med school interview.

IT was and always will be worth it to me. Since I started 3rd year, I have never ever woken up not completely excited to be in this training & learning process. This past year I've been sleep-deprived, prodromal, hungover, physically exhausted, but FML has never crossed my mind once because I had to get up early in the AM and go to the hospital.

Preclinical (1st and 2nd year) on the other hand LOL I'd say that was pretty much everyday. Ask yourself if you can do that for 2 years LOL

Totally worth it for me tho!

Thank you for sharing your perspective. 🙂 That's inspiring.

 

[QofQuimica]

Granted veterans and experts in their own disciplines can possibly match a doctor in patient management in most ordinary situations, however, when the s*** hits the fan, like in the ICU, the doctor leads the way. When an 89 year old woman w/ cellulitis goes into a-fib w/ RVR while desat'ing to 75 on bipap while she's on a laundry list of medications, I can't say it any other way (sorry to other professions) but I honestly don't think any one of the other fields can handle that very specific situation in it's entirety from beginning to end. HOWEVER, trained physicians can and do. I am amazed that by the time I am board certified and fully trained as a medical doctor, I am allowed to care for patients in a way ONLY a physician can.

Except that 89-year-olds with RVR, sepsis, and respiratory failure shouldn't be tortured just because it's such a rush for some of us. When it's you in charge, and you're the one coding that 89-year-old demented lady with a a zillion comorbidities because her family thinks that codes work all the time like they do on TV and they aren't ready to let her go, then it's amazing how quickly, "Wow, look how I get to help people as a doctor" turns into "Wow, I'd really like to smash my head against the wall as hard as I can." I didn't go to med school to become a torturer of defenseless frail elderly people, and I assume that you didn't, either. But that's what we do in the ICU. Even the less glamorous and exciting ICU procedures, like inserting NG tubes and central lines or drawing ABGs. cause significant pain. We hurt these people over and over again, day after day, and in a lot of cases, for what? They're at the end of their lives, and we aren't gods with the power to change that.

I hate working in the ICU because to me, it embodies the worst aspects of being a physician, not the least of which is that many view it as a good place for trainees to practice procedures on people who are unable to defend themselves from our assaults. You know what the kindest thing you can do as a physician for these end of life people often is? Help their families cope with letting them go, and make them DNR/DNI, or even comfort measures only. I can only hope that someone will have the courage and wisdom to show that kind of mercy if medicine is still this f'ed up fifty years from now when that little old lady in her late 80s is me.

P.S. If you've never worn BIPAP, ask the RT to put it on you and crank up the PEEP. It feels like trying to breathe while driving along the highway at 100 miles per hour with your head stuck out of the car window. Always good for us to experience what we're doing to other people.

 

[Gfliptastic]

Oh she was DNR/DNI. I should have qualified it more, but I was just thinking up a semi-complicated "readily available" case to throw in as an example. Our intensivist attending kinda wants us to push most of the patients to DNR/DNI, in fact.

My patient I've had for 6 days (ARDS, CHF w/ EF of 20%), I'm happy to say while she was in the service of our team, we were able to get her family to commit to hospice care, and she is well enough now to be discharge to home hospice.

You and I did discuss some of the cruelties of medicine elsewhere after all. However, you know there are a lot of mid-levels and other disciplines pushing for pseudo-parity, and you can say that w/ the mundane, they are competent enough. I'd appreciate any PA or PharmD or NP to chime in, after reading out my 89 year old to chime in about her management tho.

To prove a point. On why if all the people in this forum want to go specifically into medicine. If their "it" is different, at least to me, I'd highly suggest considering some of the other healthcare fields.

Honestly, I don't like the ICU! It's too impersonal for me. General internist is good enough. Or Family Medicine. I mean, you understand, I'm sure. That ICU turns human beings into conditions/syndromes. Labs. Values. Imaging. That's NOT medicine to me!

My ARDS/CHF lady, she's going home because "she is saturating well on nasal canula and per her preliminary CXR today she is 'drier' and shows sufficiently less pulmonary edema". She's still someone's mom! She probably has her own unique story and place carved into this world of ours. Ya know?? Yuck, ICU! Only 1 week left of it!!! (Hours are easy cuz they don't make med students do overnights. Just morning rounds, including weekends. PHEW!)

Anyways, I totally digress and need to stay on topic. My original post goes back to Pons post. Know exactly what IT is and how far you want to go for IT. If IT isn't extremely specific to a medical doctor...DON'T DO IT!!!!

 

[QofQuimica]

Heh, well, there's a problem we're not going to solve, although the increasing number of med school grads that will be forced into primary care specialties might end up solving the problem of us needing to expand midlevel scope of practice because of there not being enough docs to cover all those positions.

I agree that the problem with having midlevels handle the "mundane" isn't that they can't handle the mundane. The majority of acute illnesses are self-limited anyway and would get better with time on their own or with simple intervention. The problem is with midlevels not being able to recognize when something isn't the mundane, especially midlevels who are recent grads. With my limited two years of practice experience, I have the same problem. People just don't present like textbooks, and acing the boards doesn't mean that you're going to recognize that atypical presentation in front of your face. That's why residents and midlevels shouldn't be able to practice unless supervised by an experienced attending physician. It's also why the ICUs at my hospital basically consider us (residents) as interchangeable with midlevels in terms of our function in the ICU.

Strong work on arranging the home hospice care, BTW. Your attending sounds humane. I don't think we spend nearly enough time talking about what we *should* do in the ICU rather than what we *can* do.

 

[JourneyAgent]

This point about palliation and futility are part of my argument against a faith based passion or an uncritical sense of our motivations. How we are motivated is just as as important as the target of our motivations.

An interesting example is that some of our evidence that has come back about our preventative medicine efforts is just how little they prevent anything or if in fact they overmedicalize a problem to the extent of causing harm.

Whereas how often are we droning...our father who art in heaven....an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of... Curriculum as pure tautology.

The most assured of our assumptions are the most against palliation. You will cause an oncologist physical pain talking about palliation.

Callings are dangerous.

Is it worth it, very personally yes. But not because I'm sure of anything. I think I'm the most uncertain I've ever been. It's just that I've gotten closer to the questions I find most interesting. Checking blood sugars and pressure for the greater good of the United States of Obesity is about as tempting as living my life out, waiting to die in an office cubicle.

 

[TriagePreMed]

Just the sacrifices to MAYBE get into med school have been incredibly tough. If I had a family and a well paying salary (80k and up), I don't think I'd do this, but since that's not the case and I truly feel this is what I must do with my life, here I am.

 

[JourneyAgent]

Just the sacrifices to MAYBE get into med school have been incredibly tough. If I had a family and a well paying salary (80k and up), I don't think I'd do this, but since that's not the case and I truly feel this is what I must do with my life, here I am.

Perfectly reasonable. You'll probably have a good long career of it. I hope so. And I agree. In the same sense that I don't recommend marriage to people. You've really got to be a twit to think like that. Walkin about poppin off about what other people should do.

You should get married. Not you--you like other men's bums--can't have that now can we.

This type of thing.

It's a hell of a thing to get into. And I suppose it's like anything in that its what you make of it. It's a bit conservative. Provincial. Not conservative like in the *****ic American political caricatured sense, but like it takes being uptight to keep all your duckies in a row. Not a bad lot at all really. But yeah. Hell of a lot easier with just yourself and a mate. Can't imagine chasing a toddler about and keeping it all together, that be f'n mule's work. Again. What you make of it. But...

The only mistake you can make really is grandiosity. A bit ironic. Given that I'm quite grandiose in the way I make the case. But I'm not grandiose about the role itself and so there's no mistake on my part. My grandiosity is more skillful. I'm too grandiose in personage to every think compressing my entire self into the role of paper pushing doc would ever suffice at anything approximating the vomitty concept of a calling.

May it please the court.

 

[StephanieZ]

At this point it is still worth it for me. I'm not married, but I'm in a relationship with the father my three year old daughter, and sometimes I wonder how the strain of medical school will affect us. I just recently got done taking the MCAT, and during my three month study period, he was less supportive of me than I would have liked. He quit his job during that time without having anything lined up, making it impossible for me to cut back my hours at work. On top of that, he didn't take it upon himself to keep the house clean, or cook, or take over the care of our daughter as much as he should have, even though he knew I needed time to study. Luckily, I still managed to do well on my MCAT, and god willing I will be going to med school next fall, with or without him in the picture. I've decided that my goals are more important to me than my relationship, but that's a choice everyone has to make for themselves.

All that I have found worthy of passion is at the far fringes of medicine where philosophy, culture, humor, and narrative creatures live.

I'm curious about your position, JourneyAgent, as I feel I can kind of relate. Would you say medicine was a mistake for you then, or have you been able to find balance? I had always just assumed that the way to integrate a medical career with a passion for drama and narrative was to just pretend one was on an episode of Grey's Anatomy everyday. Between life-saving procedures, there always seem to be moments for existential crises or musings on the meaning of life.

 

[Balantidiumcoli]

I had always just assumed that the way to integrate a medical career with a passion for drama and narrative was to just pretend one was on an episode of Grey's Anatomy everyday.

Maybe this falls more in line with the show House but being forced to practice medicine and hang around a bunch of sophomoric, narcissistic ******s sounds like Hell to me... Maybe that's what I can expect when I die.



Medicine just seems like a better fit for my personality: obsessive, obsequious to authority (well... so long as its ethical anyway), caring, problem-solver and curious as hell and I'll admit a lot of that love of narrative is what set me out on this path too. But with what little experience I have gained over the years I'd imagine integrating philosophical narratives is best left at home or somewhere where your clear head could be the only difference between a salubrious outcome or calamity. Just working as a tech over the years has given me more than enough fodder to think about with respect to the human condition and life in general but that's not what drives me to get out of bed and go to work/school.

 

[JourneyAgent]

At this point it is still worth it for me. I'm not married, but I'm in a relationship with the father my three year old daughter, and sometimes I wonder how the strain of medical school will affect us. I just recently got done taking the MCAT, and during my three month study period, he was less supportive of me than I would have liked. He quit his job during that time without having anything lined up, making it impossible for me to cut back my hours at work. On top of that, he didn't take it upon himself to keep the house clean, or cook, or take over the care of our daughter as much as he should have, even though he knew I needed time to study. Luckily, I still managed to do well on my MCAT, and god willing I will be going to med school next fall, with or without him in the picture. I've decided that my goals are more important to me than my relationship, but that's a choice everyone has to make for themselves.



I'm curious about your position, JourneyAgent, as I feel I can kind of relate. Would you say medicine was a mistake for you then, or have you been able to find balance? I had always just assumed that the way to integrate a medical career with a passion for drama and narrative was to just pretend one was on an episode of Grey's Anatomy everyday. Between life-saving procedures, there always seem to be moments for existential crises or musings on the meaning of life.

Very nearly a mistake. Then again mistakes can be sources of creativity. So the result isn't in. I can only pursue what interests me. A very important part of which is getting to know the human being your faced with wherein trust of your agency to help is most often implicit. That's a very unique and interesting position. And very satisfying. The trouble is that bit of satisfaction is so trampled on by the forces shaping medicine that it has become unrecognizable. And therefore unsatisfying for all involved.

And what remains has been pulverized by bureaucratic process. Disfigured by unrealistic expectations. And sold out wholesale under a market model.

So then refuge is pushed to temporary enclaves, hiding, until presumably eventually being hunted down and killed. I have an instinctive feel for those hiding places as I sense them. But I could be wrong. Either way. It's not a mistake, or if it is, im content to make it. Because even if degenerate I'm still suited for it. Particularly certain aspects of it that I've found in adequate supply in the areas that interest me.

I realized that I am very intrigued by fringe and unorthodox areas of research that I may pursue. And in the meta aspects of the whole project. I may be interested in working in education, if I can find my feet solidly in what I intend to do. Which I am not sure of.

I like covering my bills and taking care of the people in my life. In the very least it will do that. So that even if the curtains of disillusionment fall it will have been worthwhile. Self-sufficiency and nurturing loved ones is something I hold sacred.

I am therefore content to meet with all manner of failure, disillusionment, ineffectuality, and pointlessness. Which I will fight, but am not convinced I will win at.

 

[JourneyAgent]

Quite the poetic interpretation. It is well received and appreciated.

I agree that as a life ethos happiness ought not to be the pursuit, but something more fulfilling of joy. I do not see joy and happiness as the same - happiness being a fleeting emotion wheras joy a deeply intrisic value of ones life.

Thus for me, I am not considering going to medical school to become a medical doctor for the deceptive perception of happiness, but rather as the fulfillment of what we believe God is calling my wife and I into. Though obviously the struggle and resistance with questioning is present.

It seems that my original post of "Is it worth it?" ought more to have been, "How you came to the conclusion that it is worth the pursuit?"

Sorry, I missed this post and saw it while scrolling down. Although it hardly matters as your point of view is not in conversation with my own. And I don't mean that dismissively. I mean only that for the true believer callings really are an accurate model of how the idea is framed. For the missionary the hot, bug ridden, poverty of subsaharan Africa are the toils of salvation and thus unalterable and irrelevant points of observation to a secular travel critic such as myself who prefers the cappuccinos, crossaints, and godless cultural conversations of civilization.

I mean to point out that for the marginally god fearing, framing the idea in terms of a messianic calling is to miss the mark so badly as to be comical. We are cogs. We fill out miles of paperwork. Called is when your beeper goes off at 3 am for some straight up b!tch work.

 

[alpinism]

Heh, well, there's a problem we're not going to solve, although the increasing number of med school grads that will be forced into primary care specialties might end up solving the problem of us needing to expand midlevel scope of practice because of there not being enough docs to cover all those positions.

I agree that the problem with having midlevels handle the "mundane" isn't that they can't handle the mundane. The majority of acute illnesses are self-limited anyway and would get better with time on their own or with simple intervention. The problem is with midlevels not being able to recognize when something isn't the mundane, especially midlevels who are recent grads. With my limited two years of practice experience, I have the same problem. People just don't present like textbooks, and acing the boards doesn't mean that you're going to recognize that atypical presentation in front of your face. That's why residents and midlevels shouldn't be able to practice unless supervised by an experienced attending physician. It's also why the ICUs at my hospital basically consider us (residents) as interchangeable with midlevels in terms of our function in the ICU.

Strong work on arranging the home hospice care, BTW. Your attending sounds humane. I don't think we spend nearly enough time talking about what we *should* do in the ICU rather than what we *can* do.

That and mistreating viral sinusitis w/ Abx or giving out Synthroid and Lipitor like candy to obese pts who don't need either.

At the same time, I've seen a ton of FM or IM docs do the same thing...

 

[malaika]

In reply to people that like to post in every thread "medicine is a calling".

It is not necessarily a calling! Some people are pushed to it by one reason or the other. For some, they are born into it and it becomes a family heritage. For some it's family/friends pressure to do it. I had a friend who's dad refused to pay for her tuition if she majored in anything else but "pre-med" related majors and went to med school, no one is a doctor in her family but they wanted her to do it. Her family pushed her into it. She is a doctor today but she was the least passionate about it even until she finished residency. And that's an example out of many!
I am in an mcat review class with a non-trad guy who says, "I got tired of being talked to rudely by doctors half my age so i said f-it, imma be a doctor too" He's a nurse. He's doing really well on the review course and motivated. Don't know if his is valid reason but that's his motivation, and i am happy for him and i am sure he won't say that in his med school interview. I know people that went into it simply because they hate other subjects and can only tolerate sciences academically, sort of like doing what you know. I know people that went into it cos of the slight chance of respect or prestige of being called a doctor.

Yea it is a calling for some, but not very so for all. You are not a priest or a nun. Stop the self righteousness. Some of yall are bs-ing. I know some of you guys are not in it because you genuinely want to help people and save the world 🙄

I am friends (maybe not so much) with a FM doctor who has gotta be like the most uncompassionate person i know. From the stories he tells me and his replies towards his patients, i feel sorry for his patients. If he ever told me medicine is a calling, i'd slap him with my phone! Get real folks. Some of yall will never be Ghandhi. 🙄

 

[JourneyAgent]

In reply to people that like to post in every thread "medicine is a calling".

It is not necessarily a calling! Some people are pushed to it by one reason or the other. For some, they are born into it and it becomes a family heritage. For some it's family/friends pressure to do it. I had a friend who's dad refused to pay for her tuition if she majored in anything else but "pre-med" related majors and went to med school, no one is a doctor in her family but they wanted her to do it. Her family pushed her into it. She is a doctor today but she was the least passionate about it even until she finished residency. And that's an example out of many!
I am in an mcat review class with a non-trad guy who says, "I got tired of being talked to rudely by doctors half my age so i said f-it, imma be a doctor too" He's a nurse. He's doing really well on the review course and motivated. Don't know if his is valid reason but that's his motivation, and i am happy for him and i am sure he won't say that in his med school interview. I know people that went into it simply because they hate other subjects and can only tolerate sciences academically, sort of like doing what you know. I know people that went into it cos of the slight chance of respect or prestige of being called a doctor.

Yea it is a calling for some, but not very so for all. You are not a priest or a nun. Stop the self righteousness. Some of yall are bs-ing. I know some of you guys are not in it because you genuinely want to help people and save the world 🙄

I am friends (maybe not so much) with a FM doctor who has gotta be like the most uncompassionate person i know. From the stories he tells me and his replies towards his patients, i feel sorry for his patients. If he ever told me medicine is a calling, i'd slap him with my phone! Get real folks. Some of yall will never be Ghandhi. 🙄

There is some obligatory obsequiousness inherent to being a premed. It's like an evangelical church with the admissions people in the pulpit calling for testimonial. One guy stands up and testifies about his calling. The next lady starts to writhe and convulse. The next guy starts inventing dance moves.

But I think that's fine. As you imply there are truly people who in their heart of hearts feel this way.

I just aim to be surreptitious and seductive to the notion that on the other side of being saved is much more like working for Initech. And that a self-deprecating sense of humor. Or whatever else you can find of personal narrative value is much more useful than the antics of being saved or being on an ordained mission.

The script will become useless for all but the the true believer--I even envy their facility with self-assuredness at times. At that point you have to scramble hard for things that turn you on in or outside of medicine. Because its Initech life until death. Hence the robotic, unenthusiastic, resentful boredom of your supervisor. He might've had a calling until he woke up on actual call and hated himself. Lacking the creativity to find his way out of that mind state.

This is actually quite common. I often get associated with cynicism. When what I'm articulating is an existential fight to the death against it.

 

[Back 5]

I think the general consensus is that if you have a career that can be personally fulfilling AND give you a sound financial future, you had better damn well know medicine is for you, before you leave your career behind.

I'm a Chiropractor living in a world where Chiro's eat their young. There is no way I can continue with a scope of practice that is more limited than midlevels with a salary that pales in comparison.

I know what I'm walking into, should my cycle be successful this year, and I am really looking forward to it.

To the OP: It's cliche, but it's true that only you can really know for certain whether medicine is your future. Introspection and careful research coupled with as much experience as you can get will get you there. Take as much time as you need, but none extra, to figure it out.

 

[RockDoc7]

I'm in an ICU rotation right now. And it validates a lot of my own personal response to whether changing careers to go thru all the sacrifices is/was worth it.

Pons threw down a good post. Maybe my rambling can enhance or refresh some of it. Cuz the "it" is the most important part.

Why I say ICU helps me w/ my own response to the question, is that IT for me is and was being able to affect my community and society one individual at a time. It's idealistic, yes, but why do any of us start down the path? Isn't there SOME idealism involved?

The reason why ICU specifically, is because it's so multidisciplinary. Our rounds involves, nurses, social work, PA's, pharmacists, dieticians, techs. In all "generic terms", any of those healthcare workers affects the individual care of the patient. HOWEVER, it is specifically the doctor's role that is the most integral.

It is the most unique position/occupation out of any healthcare profession that is absolutely linked to your own knowledge and expertise of the practice of medicine. The most comprehensive out of all of them. It is the least limited position in healthcare (yeah w/o getting into bureaucracy as to not add a tangent).

Granted veterans and experts in their own disciplines can possibly match a doctor in patient management in most ordinary situations, however, when the s*** hits the fan, like in the ICU, the doctor leads the way. When an 89 year old woman w/ cellulitis goes into a-fib w/ RVR while desat'ing to 75 on bipap while she's on a laundry list of medications, I can't say it any other way (sorry to other professions) but I honestly don't think any one of the other fields can handle that very specific situation in it's entirety from beginning to end. HOWEVER, trained physicians can and do. I am amazed that by the time I am board certified and fully trained as a medical doctor, I am allowed to care for patients in a way ONLY a physician can.

THAT is my it, in a nutshell. Ask yourself how specific is yours. Cuz you'll need to know, should you pursue this and be asked during a med school interview.

IT was and always will be worth it to me. Since I started 3rd year, I have never ever woken up not completely excited to be in this training & learning process. This past year I've been sleep-deprived, prodromal, hungover, physically exhausted, but FML has never crossed my mind once because I had to get up early in the AM and go to the hospital.

Preclinical (1st and 2nd year) on the other hand LOL I'd say that was pretty much everyday. Ask yourself if you can do that for 2 years LOL

Totally worth it for me tho!

Inspiring indeed. Thanks for sharing your experience. 👍