is there any med school you wouldn't go to, even if it was your only acceptance?

[futuremddo]

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You would have been better off saying you would be uncomfortable being the only white student in a room full of black people. That's how black people in non HBCU's feel every day

Didn't we already address this point and conclude it's not true? Or perhaps that was only me 🙂 But seriously, I'd be interested in hearing different opinions about this.

As a white at a HBC, I was specifically and explicitly told by multiple people I was unwelcome.

Obviously, I cannot compare to a PWI. Have any black students had this happen at non-HBCs? I'm genuinely curious. But I honestly don't think it happens too often; too much stigma against racism. (Although I think it's important to recognize that racism doesn't start or end with being told you're unwelcome.)

 

[KnuxNole]

Geography can make a difference if you're in a position to choose. Also, for some instances, you might visit a city for the first time and realize it's a huge POS that you would want to stay far away from. On the contrary, you might visit a place where at first you feel indifferent but fall in love with the area.

Also, weather can play a factor. There are a LOT of people that want to stay far away from cold places. I'm the outlier that likes chilly weather 😳

 

[AdrianVeidt]

Didn't we already address this point and conclude it's not true? Or perhaps that was only me 🙂 But seriously, I'd be interested in hearing different opinions about this.

As a white at a HBC, I was specifically and explicitly told by multiple people I was unwelcome.

Obviously, I cannot compare to a PWI. Have any black students had this happen at non-HBCs? I'm genuinely curious. But I honestly don't think it happens too often; too much stigma against racism. (Although I think it's important to recognize that racism doesn't start or end with being told you're unwelcome.)

Yes. I've had campus security called on me simply for walking around campus DURING THE DAY TIME ON A MONDAY. Racism is very real.

 

[futuremddo]

Of course racism is real, which is why I said that racism doesn't start or end with being told you're unwelcome.

I still maintain that your experience isn't the same as being told that you're not welcome at the school because of your race. That was '50s and '60s era stuff when blacks were the recipients of such blatant racism and although it occasionally happens today, most white-on-black racism now is more slimy, like, as you mentioned, calling the cops because you were walking around on campus. More insidious, and worse than blatant racism, I think, because it's harder recognize, harder to prove, and harder to correct.

But have you ever had a school administrator tell you "Well no wonder nobody would talk with you at lunch; you're black at a white school"? That's what happened to me all the time (races reversed), and that's the sort of blatant racism that would get somebody fired at any college except for a HBC.

 

[AdrianVeidt]

Of course racism is real, which is why I said that racism doesn't start or end with being told you're unwelcome.

I still maintain that your experience isn't the same as being told that you're not welcome at the school because of your race. That was '50s and '60s era stuff when blacks were the recipients of such blatant racism and although it occasionally happens today, most white-on-black racism now is more slimy, like, as you mentioned, calling the cops because you were walking around on campus. More insidious, and worse than blatant racism, I think, because it's harder recognize, harder to prove, and harder to correct.

But have you ever had a school administrator tell you "Well no wonder nobody would talk with you at lunch; you're black at a white school"? That's what happened to me all the time (races reversed), and that's the sort of blatant racism that would get somebody fired at any college except for a HBC.

I'd much rather someone tell me I'm not welcome than they call the police on me lol

 

[iceman55]

Not for me at least. Becoming a doctor is important, not the school that allows for me to become said doctor.

Exactly, I hate to say it, but med school is really just a means to an end. Just another stepping block on the way to becoming a physician. However, for me this only applies to US MDs.

Also, when applying to residency you have even less control over where you end up going. Unless you risk not matching, by refusing to interview at hospitals where you feel uncomfortable or don't "fit in". thus making your med school education useless.

 

[Mr Interesting]

Why? Are they not medical schools?

Looking at the medical schools in California, they have similar percentages as the texas schools, so no you cannot pick any school to illustrate your point.

of course they are medical schools.. the problem is you keep looking at things at a small scale. Step back and look at all medical schools and you will see exactly what I am talking about.

And second, I said almost any school.

Once again…

USC
Black: 11
Hispanics: 19
Asians: 73
Whites: 93

UC Irvine
Black: 3
Hispanics: 16
Asians: 37
White: 58

UC San Diego
Black: 6
Hispanics: 17
Asians: 44
Whites: 72

White people are obviously the majority, no? Compare these numbers to the numbers at Howard and Morehouse, how different are they?

 

[KnuxNole]

Exactly, I hate to say it, but med school is really just a means to an end. Just another stepping block on the way to becoming a physician. However, for me this only applies to US MDs.

Also, when applying to residency you have even less control over where you end up going. Unless you risk not matching, by refusing to interview at hospitals where you feel uncomfortable or don't "fit in". thus making your med school education useless.

Unless you applied to a tiny amount of programs, or get few interview invites (3 or less), this shouldn't be a problem. If you get 15 IIs, you can easily narrow it down to 8-10 or so and feel good about matching. You definitely can feel comfortable picking which part of the country you want to go to. In more competitive programs, there might be fewer programs to pick from. However, unless you have red flags in your application, you have MORE control over where you want to go compared to med school, by far.

 

[iceman55]

Unless you applied to a tiny amount of programs, or get few interview invites (3 or less), this shouldn't be a problem. If you get 15 IIs, you can easily narrow it down to 8-10 or so and feel good about matching. You definitely can feel comfortable picking which part of the country you want to go to. In more competitive programs, there might be fewer programs to pick from. However, unless you have red flags in your application, you have MORE control over where you want to go compared to med school, by far.

Gotcha, but if you only get 10 interviews and rank those 10 programs is it not possible to end up matching at the last program on your list, the one you would least like go to?

 

[KnuxNole]

Gotcha, but if you only get 10 interviews and rank those 10 programs is it not possible to end up matching at the last program on your list, the one you would least like go to?

Yes. However, if someone truly dislikes that place, they have the option of not ranking the program. It's a grey area...ranking it and accepting that you might go to a place you might not like vs. leaving it out and hope they liked you at the first 9 programs.

 

[iceman55]

Gotcha, but if you only get 10 interviews and rank those 10 programs is it not possible to end up matching at the last program on your list, the one you would least like go to?

This might only apply to marginal applicants for a particular field (may be ortho).

However, OPs question also only applies to marginal applicants.

 

[iceman55]

Yes. However, if someone truly dislikes that place, they have the option of not ranking the program. It's a grey area...ranking it and accepting that you might go to a place you might not like vs. leaving it out and hope they liked you at the first 9 programs.

Hence, risking not matching?

 

[iceman55]

Yes. However, if someone truly dislikes that place, they have the option of not ranking the program. It's a grey area...ranking it and accepting that you might go to a place you might not like vs. leaving it out and hope they liked you at the first 9 programs.

Basically, the point am trying to make is that you can't always have it your way, and that's life.

 

[KnuxNole]

Basically, the point am trying to make is that you can't always have it your way, and that's life.

That is true. However, the harder you work, the more strings you'll have in your hand to pull 😛

 

[Status Sciaticus]

of course they are medical schools.. the problem is you keep looking at things at a small scale. Step back and look at all medical schools and you will see exactly what I am talking about.

And second, I said almost any school.

Once again…

USC
Black: 11
Hispanics: 19
Asians: 73
Whites: 93

UC Irvine
Black: 3
Hispanics: 16
Asians: 37
White: 58

UC San Diego
Black: 6
Hispanics: 17
Asians: 44
Whites: 72

White people are obviously the majority, no? Compare these numbers to the numbers at Howard and Morehouse, how different are they?

The glaring difference that you fail to see is that there are OTHER races that are represented in larger numbers at these schools compared to the HBCUs... like the Asians and hispanic students.... Thats the difference.

 

[Mr Interesting]

The glaring difference that you fail to see is that there are OTHER races that are represented in larger numbers at these schools compared to the HBCUs... like the Asians and hispanic students.... Thats the difference.

...

 

[futuremddo]

I'd much rather someone tell me I'm not welcome than they call the police on me lol

Okay, I guess we differ on that one 🙂 I'd much rather have the police get called sometimes than be marginalized and ostracized by my peers.

 

[Trogghunter]

You all better go somewhere and do it fast before we run out of residencies.

 

[Starry]

Did not read thread, so forgive me for interrupting whatever convo.

I didn't apply to any schools where it rains or snows a lot. Both me and my SO vehemently oppose that kind of weather lolol.

 

[Eaglefan]

do you have to put an obama sticker on your car if you attend a HBC?

but for serials I would attend any US MD school if I had to, but I'm working hard during undergrad as to be able to get into better ones. Just so happens that I'm not a fan of the racism that is AA/HBC's. They should make historically disadvantaged colleges, not ones where black students are ushered in over, say, an Asian kid that grew up in poverty. But this has all been discussed before

 

[karayaa]

You would have been better off saying you would be uncomfortable being the only white student in a room full of black people. That's how black people in non HBCU's feel every day

Can you speak for all black people?? It seems a stretch to claim that all black people always every day feel uncomfortable at 95% of the med schools in the country just because of race. Would you say the same is true for all other minorities?

Why? Are they not medical schools?

Looking at the medical schools in California, they have similar percentages as the texas schools, so no you cannot pick any school to illustrate your point.

TX and CA are both outliers, because along w NY they have some of the largest percentages of minorities. You'd expect the numbers to be skewed away from the averages.
Here's an article on the UC med schools' diversity: http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/news/article/24900
They're historically ahead of the nation in terms of diversity. And no offense, but I assume TX med schools have less diversity than CA, partly bc of the larger Asian population in CA.

 

[karayaa]

The glaring difference that you fail to see is that there are OTHER races that are represented in larger numbers at these schools compared to the HBCUs... like the Asians and hispanic students.... Thats the difference.

I think one problem is that people are mixing up diversity in medicine, with diversity within individual med schools.
Obviously, medicine is historically and currently white, though that is changing with more minorities going to med school, and more FMGs - mostly from Asia.

HBCs might be less diverse within an inidividual school than the average, and less focused on recruiting diverse candidates than HWCs - but I haven't seen any numbers yet.

 

[scarecrow90]

is RVU Rocky Vista?

Yes.

 

[487806]

Did not read thread, so forgive me for interrupting whatever convo.

I didn't apply to any schools where it rains or snows a lot. Both me and my SO vehemently oppose that kind of weather lolol.

Finally! A normal post in this thread

Btw, don't worry. I actually appreciate you posting this since the hijacked conversation is idiotic.

 

[StudentDrWho]

Finally! A normal post in this thread

Btw, don't worry. I actually appreciate you posting this since the hijacked conversation is idiotic.

+1

I guess we should have all seen the flame war looming.

 

[Status Sciaticus]

Can you speak for all black people?? It seems a stretch to claim that all black people always every day feel uncomfortable at 95% of the med schools in the country just because of race. Would you say the same is true for all other minorities?



TX and CA are both outliers, because along w NY they have some of the largest percentages of minorities. You'd expect the numbers to be skewed away from the averages.
Here's an article on the UC med schools' diversity: http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/news/article/24900
They're historically ahead of the nation in terms of diversity. And no offense, but I assume TX med schools have less diversity than CA, partly bc of the larger Asian population in CA.

Ill give you that point that yes, there are a larger percentage of minorities in those states.
The point stands that these schools are not artificially increasing one group's presence over another, and that it somewhat represents the demographics of their city or state.

I think one problem is that people are mixing up diversity in medicine, with diversity within individual med schools.
Obviously, medicine is historically and currently white, though that is changing with more minorities going to med school, and more FMGs - mostly from Asia.

HBCs might be less diverse within an inidividual school than the average, and less focused on recruiting diverse candidates than HWCs - but I haven't seen any numbers yet.

I was merely talking about diversity within the schools and the lack of its representation in HBCUs versus HWCs. If you have access to MSAR, it should help you see the numbers.

 

[karayaa]

Ill give you that point that yes, there are a larger percentage of minorities in those states.
The point stands that these schools are not artificially increasing one group's presence over another, and that it somewhat represents the demographics of their city or state.

I was merely talking about diversity within the schools and the lack of its representation in HBCUs versus HWCs. If you have access to MSAR, it should help you see the numbers.

Not until next year :/

 

[Escape_Goat]

Okay, I guess we differ on that one 🙂 I'd much rather have the police get called sometimes than be marginalized and ostracized by my peers.

Oh, they'd still marginalize and ostracize you whether they called the police or not.

 

[Dbate]

Not really.

Historically black medical schools dont have as much diversity in the classroom, both cultural and societal. Not to mention that they are consistently on the lower end of the academic status (GPA/MCAT of accepted applicants).

Lots of people dont apply to the historically black schools. If I am not mistaken, you are one of them.

Why would I apply to HBCUs? I'm from Texas. It would cost me more money to go to these places.

All the non-Texas schools I applied to where just random highly ranked schools.

 

[Dbate]

Because the ability to ignore schools that might otherwise accept you, based just on fit, is not something that everyone has. Some are so desperate to get in, that they can't afford the luxury of using that as a criterion. Because stats etc are so non-competitive, or maybe for other reasons.
Just as those who are sought after by HMS etc have the luxury to consider criteria such as location, price, curriculum, relationships, etc, those who are strong applicants for normal schools have the freedom to consider fit and personality and ethos. I meant to suggest that not everyone has that ability - whether because of bad luck or bad choices - and thus some people don't have the privilege of considering any factors beyond acceptance.

If you have worked hard to obtain the stats that allow you to be able to choose where you want to apply/attend medical school, I wouldn't say that's a privilege.

That an option you've earned.

Describing it as a privilege implies that it is somehow undeserved or unearned.

 

[Dbate]

relax
white people don't like it when people play the race card
you won't gain any sympathy

ftfy.

In my limited experience, white people are the only people who try to pretend that race doesn't matter in society. That is until they get rejected from their dream school, then all of a sudden some URM stole their spot.

Even Asians and women are more aware of how race matters because they have to deal with stereotypes and prejudices about their groups as well.

What he said was completely rational.

If someone feel uncomfortable being in a setting where their race isn't the majority, then I think they should recognize how minorities may feel all the time.

I agree that Affirmative Action, "historically black" schools, and threads like these only contribute to the divide between races.

As a side note, historically black school don't contribute to the divide between the races. They had to be created because white people didn't want blacks to attend their schools.


The sheer ignorance of history is astounding.

 

[AdrianVeidt]

Can you speak for all black people?? It seems a stretch to claim that all black people always every day feel uncomfortable at 95% of the med schools in the country just because of race. Would you say the same is true for all other minorities?

I can't speak for anyone but myself. But if I was to make a statement on behalf of the African-American race, I would certainly say that that is true for the majority because of America's checkered past. And no, it's definitely not true for all other minorities. No other group of citizens were once thought of as less than human. We were 3/5 of a person just 148 years ago so today we are still not considered on the same level as members of other races. That's reality.

Oh, they'd still marginalize and ostracize you whether they called the police or not.

preach....

 

[La Presse]

I can't speak for anyone but myself. But if I was to make a statement on behalf of the African-American race, I would certainly say that that is true for the majority because of America's checkered past. And no, it's definitely not true for all other minorities. No other group of citizens were once thought of as less than human. We were 3/5 of a person just 148 years ago so today we are still not considered on the same level as members of other races. That's reality.

....even though we have a black president? Cheer up! People may look and criticize, but we have strong leaders that advocate for our community and I think that makes all the difference. 😀

We've come a long way. haha

 

[Status Sciaticus]

ftfy.

In my limited experience, white people are the only people who try to pretend that race doesn't matter in society. That is until they get rejected from their dream school, then all of a sudden some URM stole their spot.

Even Asians and women are more aware of how race matters because they have to deal with stereotypes and prejudices about their groups as well.

What he said was completely rational.

If someone feel uncomfortable being in a setting where their race isn't the majority, then I think they should recognize how minorities may feel all the time.


As a side note, historically black school don't contribute to the divide between the races. They had to be created because white people didn't want blacks to attend their schools.


The sheer ignorance of history is astounding.

The issue is not why HBCUs were initially created, but the fact that they still continue to use race as a determining factor in the admissions process, and consequently DO contribute to the divide by their resulting class profile.

Im a minority and muslim (double whammy) and I dont think that race matters to the extent that you believe it does.

 

[Dbate]

Did not read thread, so forgive me for interrupting whatever convo.

I didn't apply to any schools where it rains or snows a lot. Both me and my SO vehemently oppose that kind of weather lolol.

I totally agree about the snow.

When I applied to college, I prioritized the northeast because--coming from texas--I never really got to experience snow.

Terrible idea.


It's cold and sucks. And eventually it just turns into this gross black looking slush.

Snow is awful. 👎

 

[Dbate]

The issue is not why HBCUs were initially created, but the fact that they still continue to use race as a determining factor in the admissions process, and consequently DO contribute to the divide by their resulting class profile.

Every med school in the country uses race as a determining factor in admissions.

Also, these schools are open to other races (just look at the demographics: 38-44% of matriculated students are non-black). And that number is lower than it otherwise would be given the large number of non-black students who actively choose to not apply.

Im a minority and muslim (double whammy) and I dont think that race matters to the extent that you believe it does.

Being a minority and being black are two different things.

Every social survey ever done has demonstrated that blacks are the most negatively viewed in society (out of all groups) and experience the most racial prejudice.

So it's not surprising that you don't think race matters as much as I do.

 

[Anathema]

This thread turned from promising to absolute garbage imo.

 

[AdrianVeidt]

....even though we have a black president? Cheer up! People may look and criticize, but we have strong leaders that advocate for our community and I think that makes all the difference. 😀

We've come a long way. haha

Barack Obama is genetically just as white as he is black. Culturally, Barack Obama is a white man who just happens to be married to a black woman.

 

[Starry]

I totally agree about the snow.

When I applied to college, I prioritized the northeast because--coming from texas--I never really got to experience snow.

Terrible idea.


It's cold and sucks. And eventually it just turns into this gross black looking slush.

Snow is awful. 👎

Hahaha I'm from Texas too.

First experience w/snow: I went skiing in New Mexico a couple of yrs ago. I was TERRIBLE. You know the bunny hill and theres this conveyor belt thing covered by a tunnel to haul you up that hill. I CRASHED INTO THAT GODDAM THING SO MANY TIMES. Scarred for life.

Therefore, I hate snow. 😀

 

[Dbate]

Hahaha I'm from Texas too.

First experience w/snow: I went skiing in New Mexico a couple of yrs ago. I was TERRIBLE. You know the bunny hill and theres this conveyor belt thing covered by a tunnel to haul you up that hill. I CRASHED INTO THAT GODDAM THING SO MANY TIMES. Scarred for life.

Therefore, I hate snow. 😀

Hahahahaha

That seems like a scene that should be in a movie

 

[Status Sciaticus]

Every med school in the country uses race as a determining factor in admissions.

Its the extent to which race is used in the admissions process that is different.

Also, these schools are open to other races (just look at the demographics: 38-44% of matriculated students are non-black). And that number is lower than it otherwise would be given the large number of non-black students who actively choose to not apply.




Being a minority and being black are two different things.

Every social survey ever done has demonstrated that blacks are the most negatively viewed in society (out of all groups) and experience the most racial prejudice.

So it's not surprising that you don't think race matters as much as I do.

And how often are you discriminated against?
And dont mention your UES experience because I have lived there and its happened to me and some of my hispanic friends as well; so its nothing unique to AAs there.

.

 

[ValiDemeanor]

This thread turned from promising to absolute garbage imo.

Agree.

 

[histidine]

Barack Obama is genetically just as white as he is black. Culturally, Barack Obama is a white man who just happens to be married to a black woman.

Wow. I love when people argue about whether an individual is really part of a minority group. Jews telling other jews they aren't "true" jews because their mom isn't jew, or they didn't get a bar/bat mitzvah, or they didn't grow up in an orthodox family. Christians calling out other christians because of their sect. Asians blasting on other asians for being whitewashed.

The only schools I want to avoid are the schools filled with these types of people.

 

[Redpancreas]

....anyways,

The question is rather moot because if there's a school I wouldn't attend, I wouldn't have applied to it or went to its Interview Day. Anyways, U of I with its tuition, HBCs, Loma Linda, Central Michigan, to name a few.

 

[KnuxNole]

Dang, maybe y'all need to hold hands and sing Kumbaya or something.

 

[cookiemonsters]

Barack Obama is genetically just as white as he is black. Culturally, Barack Obama is a white man who just happens to be married to a black woman.

He basically has alpha genes. Black enough to be considered URM, white enough to feel culturally comfortable around white people. Wonder what BO's LSAT score was.

 

[AdrianVeidt]

He basically has alpha genes. Black enough to be considered URM, white enough to feel culturally comfortable around white people. Wonder what BO's LSAT score was.

This definitely should be publicly available. Who cares about privacy? Certainly not Obama's NSA!

 

[Escape_Goat]

I agree that Affirmative Action, "historically black" schools, and threads like these only contribute to the divide between races.

That is an incredibly naive position to take; it assumes that everyone has had the same opportunities and access to education, and that institutionalized racism and barriers for upward mobility don't exist in our society.

Affirmative Action and HBUs address the socioeconomic disadvantages that affect in black communities.

 

[mdocfuture]

Wow. I love when people argue about whether an individual is really part of a minority group. Jews telling other jews they aren't "true" jews because their mom isn't jew, or they didn't get a bar/bat mitzvah, or they didn't grow up in an orthodox family. Christians calling out other christians because of their sect. Asians blasting on other asians for being whitewashed.

The only schools I want to avoid are the schools filled with these types of people.

So agreed, I can't believe all these racist, ignorant idiots are going to potentially be doctors... I just really hope I don't have to go to school with them... My gawd. Its astonishing what people will say when they can't be physically (in person) held accountable.

 

[MDforMee]

Yes. I've had campus security called on me simply for walking around campus DURING THE DAY TIME ON A MONDAY. Racism is very real.

Yeah, racism is to blame for someone suspecting you of committing a crime.

It's gotta be someone else holding you down.