KCUMB Discussion thread 2007-2008

[Tachymeter]

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Well I just got an interview invite for February 5th.

 

[t-funk]

Awesome, you will love it!

 

[jzeidenb]

good luck, just be relaxed.. i remember most of the people my day were really uptight and i was relaxed and i think that gave me a big adv.

 

[DiverDoc]

Well I just got an interview invite for February 5th.

Congrats ! Hope the weather is good for you.

 

[Lost N Found]

Kansas City University of Medicine and Biosciences is a new name for an older school. It was previously called university health sciences kansas city... or something similar. This could be why they are oblivious to its existence.

Anyone know why they changed their name?

I've been accepted, and have to say the atmosphere was wonderful when I was there during my interview. Now the cost....whole other story!🙄

 

[allisome]

Hey guys, I'm new on here. I sent in my supplemental application January 2nd, and my LORs should be in within the next week. I haven't heard anything yet about them receiving my supp app, however, I noticed they cashed the check! ha 😉 Does anyone know how long it usually takes for KCUMB to contact you?

 

[spicedmanna]

Anyone know why they changed their name?

Well, I'm not really sure, but I think, partially, it has something to do with wanting to show an increased focus on research, i.e., Kansas City University of Medicine and Biosciences.

 

[Halloweenie]

hey guys,

i'm on hold at kcumb, but have lived in the kc area almost all my life, so just thought i'd contribute some input. i went through the liberty schools from 1-12 grade. we had the highest paid teachers, and highest starting salaries in the entire metro area (happy teachers), and ranked at the top in academics and athletics. we lived in liberty while i was growing up, then moved across the state line. liberty is growing by leaps and bounds, and looks different everytime i go back, but still has the smaller town feel to it. i live in overland park now, and realllllllly like it. we're in a pretty central location--close to highways, restaurants, and shopping. there is affordable housing in op, even if you want to rent...you just have to look a bit. we are in a 1300 sf apartment w/a storage unit and garage and pay under $930. even better deals exist. blue valley and shawnee mission school districts are the best in kansas. i'll answer any questions if i can. just thought that might help!

to all still vying for an interview!

 

[allisome]

I saw on the website that KCUMB has received the John Templeton Spirituality in Medicine Award twice, and noticed that the University's core values include faith. This is one major reason that I am so interested in KCUMB, however, I don't know much about how spirituality is actually incorporated into the curriculum.

Is there anyone that can give me some insight into this? Any help from current students would be greatly appreciated! Thanks! 😀

 

[spicedmanna]

I saw on the website that KCUMB has received the John Templeton Spirituality in Medicine Award twice, and noticed that the University's core values include faith. This is one major reason that I am so interested in KCUMB, however, I don't know much about how spirituality is actually incorporated into the curriculum.

Is there anyone that can give me some insight into this? Any help from current students would be greatly appreciated! Thanks! 😀

Speaking from a first-year perspective, thus far, a small smattering of classes here and there, as part of the communications and/or bioethics portion. In addition, you'll get some treatment of it in learning how to conduct patient interviews, cultural-competency/religion-sensitivity type stuff. Some treatment of death and dying. It's there, but not as significant as it might seem.

 

[DiverDoc]

For any of those who have interviewed or know, are they showing Weaver on the campus tour now?

 

[Dakayus]

INTERVIEWING THIS TUESDAY! Anyone else?
Wow let me tell you about my flight situation. It's a 3 hour direct flight, but I just got the money to book a flight and now I have to make stops and such bringing the total time to 8 hours. *sigh* well I really look forward to seeing you all out there. I'm usually the laid back one 😀

 

[SwmrDoc]

For any of those who have interviewed or know, are they showing Weaver on the campus tour now?

I interviewed 1/15 and as of then they weren't showing Weaver. I think they may have opened it officially a couple of days later though...

 

[radioactivesci]

If you have been accepted to anywhere other than KCUMB, run like the wind to that school. Talk to some students at KCUMB to find out how they don't live up to being as compassionate as they say.

 

[radioactivesci]

Weaver Auditorium is where graduations and white coatings will take place. However what the University fails to tell you is that since they admit 260 students, they aren't able to accommodate all the family and friends you would like to invite to your monumental ceremony!!! There will be numerous times during your academic career there that we are shafted because of the amount of students they admit.

 

[DiverDoc]

Wow. There has been some serious hating on KCUMB lately. Whats the deal? Is it just because med school isnt easy, or is it deeper than that with them?

 

[jzeidenb]

radio, do you go to kcumb? if you do would you care to elaborate, those are some pretty strong claims to fire unsupported. I definitely have not gotten this sense from the many many many students ive talked to.

and what do you mean they arent compassionate? Im not sure what that is referring to. Medical school is tough, and internship and residency im sure will be even tougher.

 

[endocardium]

If you have been accepted to anywhere other than KCUMB, run like the wind to that school. Talk to some students at KCUMB to find out how they don't live up to being as compassionate as they say.

I still think KCUMB is a decent school, but I definitely recommend taking a very close look and considering carefully before signing on. And, yes, I basically concur with your second sentence. See my post in the Official KCUMB Class of 2012 thread. The school certainly appears to be more bottom-line oriented and self-serving than student-centered. This has little to do with the difficultly of medical school. I often feel like so much cattle. What I've experienced thus far has definitely called into question whether they are working in the best interests of their students.

Weaver Auditorium is where graduations and white coatings will take place. However what the University fails to tell you is that since they admit 260 students, they aren't able to accommodate all the family and friends you would like to invite to your monumental ceremony!!! There will be numerous times during your academic career there that we are shafted because of the amount of students they admit.

I've heard something of the sort, too. Was talking to a graduating 4th year and this was hinted to me. 👎

 

[endocardium]

Wow. There has been some serious hating on KCUMB lately. Whats the deal? Is it just because med school isnt easy, or is it deeper than that with them?

It's deeper than that.

 

[t-funk]

I still think KCUMB is a decent school, but I definitely recommend taking a very close look and considering carefully before signing on. And, yes, I basically concur with your second sentence. See my post in the Official KCUMB Class of 2012 thread. The school certainly appears to be more bottom-line oriented and self-serving than student-centered. This has little to do with the difficultly of medical school. I often feel like so much cattle. What I've experienced thus far has definitely called into question whether they are working in the best interests of their students.



I've heard something of the sort, too. Was talking to a graduating 4th year and this was hinted to me. 👎

Hey ...Endocardium or Radioactive, I was wondering if you could elaborate a little. Do you believe you would've been happier at a different school? I am just wondering if you think this discontent with med school is specific to KCUMB? All the students that I have talked to, which haven't been many, have seemed very happy to be at KCUMB. Did you guys go to a large state school for undergrad? Is your experience comparable to that? I am just wondering bc that is something I can relate to. I don't know how it is possible to feel any more like cattle than at a large state school. Even in the smaller grad courses with 10 students, the professors don't want to work with you any more than possible bc they want to get to their research and everything is about the bottom dollar. I don't know if I've ever experienced a non-cattle like school environment and it honestly doesn't bother me.

I don't really go to office hours, or ask questions during class. I like to learn on my own after lecture. One of the reasons why I wanted to go to KCUMB is the systems based approach. My learning style is much much more in line with that type of curriculum than a traditional one and I believe I will do the best on the boards with that type of a curriculum. Do you guys like the curriculum or do you think you would have done better with a traditional curriculum? My number one reason for wanting to go to KCUMB is the opportunity to stay in KC during rotations and the number one thing I want out of a med school is to be able to pick my rotations in order to have the best chance possible at obtaining the exact residency that I want. Given that KCUMB has a relatively high rate of specialization, I assumed my chances of getting the residency I wanted, given I put the work in and get the scores, would be acheivable. Do you guys believe my wants in a school are not in concordance with KCUMB's approach?

However, I am definitely into being at a 'compassionate' school which focuses on the the socioeconomics of patients and how to relate to others who do not have similar backgrounds to myself. In what ways do you guys think that KCUMB is not as 'compassionate' as they try to appear? Overall, what would you guys have done differently given the opportunity to choose med school all over again? Thanks for any responses.

 

[DiverDoc]

I have the same questions as you t-funk. Still, I think every school is going to have its issues. But some recent negative feedback about KCUMB has got me thinking a little bit. Is the politics or other issues enough to compromise a students education at KCUMB? Probably not, but still I like you, would like some elaboration.

 

[deadeyedk]

interviewed on jan 15 and i got in!

i'm really excited, because i really got a great feeling from the school on interview day. i only have one issue.

kcumb is my #2 choice, behind my in-state school, simply because the cost difference is so great. i owe a $1000 deposit to kcumb by feb. 22, and my state school makes their final decision on feb. 24.

is there any chance for an extension on the due date of my deposit? i'm thinking about calling the admissions office to ask, but i don't want any "trouble" with my acceptance. i understand that kcumb requires that quick deposit to avoid becoming a safety school for applicants.

any suggestions/advice are appreciated.

 

[jzeidenb]

ask the admissions office anonymously first

 

[radioactivesci]

Since I am a student at the University, I don't want to jeopardize them coming back and retaliating against me. However, I will elaborate on some of the issues that our school pretends to acknowledge, yet they never follow through and resolve the issues.

First off, the University is notorious for packing exam weeks with "volunteer" projects, which aren't really volunteering if the they are making you do it in order to receive your points. Although I advocate volunteering, I believe we should have choice in what project we complete and when we complete it (which wouldn't be the day before a major final exam).

Another issue that I have is with Score ONE. The University makes you buy expensive equipment (aprox $700) just so we can go out during Score One to do physical exams (once again this volunteer project also falls on the day before exams). A compassionate school would understand that the majority of students don't come from money and if they want us to complete Score One, then they should buy the equipment and allow us to check it out for the year. However, I am quite sure the school receives a big kick-back from selling 260 students $700 worth of equipment.

To answer someone else's question: Yes I went to a major University where the class sizes were big. However, class size in physics class is vastly different than a large class size when you are teaching someone the importance of how to do a physical exam. We are constantly shafted b/c the University has to accomodate so many students that we waste hours waiting around for our turn for path lab, micro lab, etc.

Would I be happier somewhere els? I understand that there are problems elsewhere and that I would be dealing with other issues. However I chose KCUMB b/c the represented what I believed to be important in medicine...Collaboration without Competition and Compassion for students and the community. These were just lip-service statements without any grain of truth to back it up.

 

[radioactivesci]

To answer someone else's question: What would I have done differently or would I have chosen another school:

I would have spoken to more of the students at the University. Not just the ones that they have during your interview days that shuffle you around campus. These students aren't allowed to give you a proper perspective of the issues we encounter around campus.

I don't want to sound bitter nor do I want to turn anyone off from making their own choice. My main objective in posting here is to get one thinking about what they need to do to make an informed decision about where they are going to spend the next 4 years of their life. Medical school is difficult, but it doesn't have to be even more difficult because the faculty don't listen and acknowledge the students who pay over $40,000 a year to attend.

 

[endocardium]

However I chose KCUMB b/c the represented what I believed to be important in medicine...Collaboration without Competition and Compassion for students and the community. These were just lip-service statements without any grain of truth to back it up.

I agree with your post, especially this last part, quoted above. It's hard to explain, but I think the school doesn't really live up to it's mission statement, or it's core values. The medical school is like some sort of shameless money-making front. I'm deeply disappointed. It seems to be all about appearances. The school looks pretty good, if you examine it superficially and let yourself get distracted by all the bells and whistles, but if you dig deep, you find it out it's just a facade.

The whole "professionalism" thing is a useless, archaic legacy and an idiotic tool that the school waves around to maintain control. The culture, in my humble opinion, makes you want to watch your back; it's certainly not one of maturity and trust. I've heard folks describe it as "fascist," in fact. This whole "professionalism" thing needs to be trashed. I hate the way that we are forced, like little kids to do certain things, for our own good and how the school tries to control all the little things. How about being called into the professionalism office? What a crock of crap. I grew up in a totally different atmosphere and it just grates on me. Yuck. It can be a totally different experience, but sadly, the culture of the school gets in the way.

The school lacks any sort of coordination, or collaboration; it's astounding. Nobody works together and nobody seems to know, or give a **** about what anybody else is doing, and nobody even communicates with one another. The left hand doesn't know what the right is doing. This can make for a difficult time, expecially when things get crossed due to the lack of coordination, or lost in the mix, and unfortunately, it interferes with your learning experience.

The school is incredibly frugal. It spends money on all kinds of crap, but not where it seems to matter. For example, they built a couple new buildings, but don't bother hiring decent professors to teach the students. A whole bunch of professors left the school a little while back (hmm...) and now there's a shortage of good professors on campus. There are a good number of new professors, some of which are junior and lack experience, many guest lecturers, or adjunct professors, and professors who wear multiple hats. This is completely unexceptable, in my opinion. The thing you DO NOT compromise on is education. Your education should not be an afterthought. 🙄

The school asks for a lot of feedback from students (actually, "ask" is too strong of a word: they practically make us do the surveys, sometimes using negative reinforcement), but the changes they make seem highly reflexive, poorly researched, and executed. There are lots of really important things that need to be improved upon, but somehow these things never get implemented; it's always the things that don't matter much, or worse. There are exceptions, but for the most part, radioactivesci is correct, the REAL problems don't get resolved and the changes they make often cause more issues. As such, they give the appearance of listening to students, but it's predominately selective hearing, or listening through a filter.

These things, and many more, tend to lead me, and others, to the conclusion that the school isn't really looking out for our best interests. They seem very self-serving, in a way that saddens me. Sometimes, I feel like I am at some sort of community college for medical students.

Will I get through okay? Probably. What doesn't kill you, can sometimes make you stronger.

Would I have chosen another school? No, probably not. I don't believe in going backwards. What's done is done. It's the choice I made. Rather than viewing it in a negative light, I'd say that perhaps there is a reason why I am here and why I made this choice. I like to believe that this is the perfect experience for me, even with all the negatives.

I came from a huge public university, so that aspect doesn't play into it at all. KCUMB just isn't living up to its promises, at least in my opinion. Maybe it's going through a tough time right now. Perhaps it was a much better school a few years ago. I don't know. I hope it gets it's act together, because I sense much potential for greatness here, which makes it all the more disappointing.

 

[radioactivesci]

Endocardium: Amen!

 

[Tachymeter]

I have an interview here next Tuesday and as I've already got a couple of acceptances this school will really have to sell me. But it seems like the new medical schools these days just might be better.

 

[radioactivesci]

If anyone else needs any more reason to choose another school than that posted earlier by a few students, then listen to this. A fellow student was told that he failed the OMT practicle. He knew there had to be something wrong b/c he did well on all of the stations. So he contacted the faculty member in charge (to remain un-named). He waited for a response concerning the issue, but the professor never opened his email. He therefore resent the email shortly before he was scheduled to retake the exam, and still didn't get a response. He therefore resumed to studying the WHOLE weekend to retake the exam. When he shows up to retake the exam, he is told that there was a mistake in adding up his points and didn't have to retake it. If anyone understands how precious time is, wait until you are in medical school. Every free second you have to spend with family and friends is priceless and he was robbed of this without anyone apologizing for their lack of concern.

Incidents like this happen all the time because faculty ignore us and our requests for help and clarification concerning our grades, etc.

 

[jzeidenb]

radioactiv, with all due respect i think you've made your point. These things while unfortunate are not exclusive to KCUMB.. in fact, i've heard almost the exact same account from one of my really good friends who goes to Upenn. If it happens there, it happens anywhere

I dont think you are being constructive or helpful when you start citing individual student inconveniences when you have a class of 250+ students, most of whom speak very highly of the school (they do, please don't challenge me on this, i've talked to about 20 students who attend KCUMB and are 1-3rd years and only 1 of them mentioned any of the things you and endocardium are upset about). That is not to say that these issues don't exist, I'm sure they do, and I say this with all due respect to you, but I think you are taking issues and really blowing them out of proportion. If other students are not consistently bringing them up, that tells me they are not serious enough to disrupt the majority of students.

And again, i respect totally that you are bringing issues that concern you to light for prospective students, but it begins to become less credible and more the ranting of a disgruntled unhappy individual when you constantly reiterate the same things. I think you are a valued poster because of your honesty, endocardium as well, especially him for listing things incoming students should do to get ahead in the class thread, but again, I just want to express my opinion that you have made your point and theres no need to run a campaign against the school in this thread anymore.

Good luck to you in your rotations and residency and beyond.

 

[t-funk]

radioactiv, with all due respect i think you've made your point. These things while unfortunate are not exclusive to KCUMB.. in fact, i've heard almost the exact same account from one of my really good friends who goes to Upenn. If it happens there, it happens anywhere

I dont think you are being constructive or helpful when you start citing individual student inconveniences when you have a class of 250+ students, most of whom speak very highly of the school (they do, please don't challenge me on this, i've talked to about 20 students who attend KCUMB and are 1-3rd years and only 1 of them mentioned any of the things you and endocardium are upset about). That is not to say that these issues don't exist, I'm sure they do, and I say this with all due respect to you, but I think you are taking issues and really blowing them out of proportion. If other students are not consistently bringing them up, that tells me they are not serious enough to disrupt the majority of students.

And again, i respect totally that you are bringing issues that concern you to light for prospective students, but it begins to become less credible and more the ranting of a disgruntled unhappy individual when you constantly reiterate the same things. I think you are a valued poster because of your honesty, endocardium as well, especially him for listing things incoming students should do to get ahead in the class thread, but again, I just want to express my opinion that you have made your point and theres no need to run a campaign against the school in this thread anymore.

Good luck to you in your rotations and residency and beyond.

👍 You said what I wanted but didn't know how. I was really hoping to see Osli or Spicedmanna come on and give their opinion of these comments and hopefully they still will. Every place has its problems. Hell, I got a D in my SEM class bc the SEM broke down during the semester and everyone had to take an incomplete and the professor didn't want to work around my full-time schedule a year later when the SEM was finally fixed. I have had other professors incorrectly calculate my final reported grade and I had to go back and get it officially changed only for the professor to find out he incorrectly graded the entire class due to an error in his spreadsheet. Professors are people and they make mistakes.

Honestly, the comments about KCUMB making students volunteer and do Score One made me excited to be a part of a school that is involved in the community. I hope that kind of stuff comes before a 'test' anyday. I've had kids, full-time jobs, outside activities, and school for the last ten years of my life and I've had to learn how to study efficiently. If there is anything I've heard med students say it is that you have to study a little everyday and it is not possible to cram. I guess I just don't 'get it' regarding Score One especially if all the students are in the same situation. I was a little worried about the lab stuff that you brought up and having to wait. I'm wondering what you have to wait for since most of the labs I have ever been in have been self taught with a provided guide or manual. Are you waiting for a microscope to look into or a slide to use? If it's clinical, why not just find another student that knows what's up? I don't get that either.

I would really like concrete evidence that KCUMB is to be avoided like the plague and I would definitely listen. Unfortunately, I still have not read anything that doesn't sound like 'life'. Sh-t happens. I do want to thank you for providing some insight but I just don't think I'm 'getting it'.

 

[radioactivesci]

jzeidenb:

Do you work at the University, because trying to suppress opinions happens to be their specialty? The last time I checked, this was a forum for people to gain information concerning the University. The only way one is to make an informed decision about where they are about to spend the next 4 years of their lives, is by hearing honest feedback concerning REAL issues to occur here.

There are real issues, such as massive cheating that the University helps facilitate by reusing the same questions. This issue has been brought forth to curriculum for the past 3 years that I know of and still they reuse the same questions. So if anyone is concerned about their grades (ie every student out there), then be warned that the students who have 5 years worth of test questions are at a distinct advantage over the students who have a conscience and chose not to cheat.

I am not on a campaign. My mission is to inform; to inform students to look more than skin deep at an institution. I made my decision, just as endocardium, and I will continue to plug along. At the end of the process, no matter what school you choose, you will be a doctor. However, wouldn't it be a more peaceful process if the system supported the student?

 

[DiverDoc]

jzeidenb:

Do you work at the University, because trying to suppress opinions happens to be their specialty? The last time I checked, this was a forum for people to gain information concerning the University. The only way one is to make an informed decision about where they are about to spend the next 4 years of their lives, is by hearing honest feedback concerning REAL issues to occur here.

There are real issues, such as massive cheating that the University helps facilitate by reusing the same questions. This issue has been brought forth to curriculum for the past 3 years that I know of and still they reuse the same questions. So if anyone is concerned about their grades (ie every student out there), then be warned that the students who have 5 years worth of test questions are at a distinct advantage over the students who have a conscience and chose not to cheat.

I am not on a campaign. My mission is to inform; to inform students to look more than skin deep at an institution. I made my decision, just as endocardium, and I will continue to plug along. At the end of the process, no matter what school you choose, you will be a doctor. However, wouldn't it be a more peaceful process if the system supported the student?

Um I call people like you NEGATIVE NANCY. Dear lord I hope I dont get banned for this but cmon, you made a comment about time issues. OBVIOUSLY you had time to go to SDN and complain. Due to recent activity I have talked to current students and they have nothing but positive things to say about the institution. The only negative comments that they have are due to students such as yourself who dont have enough get up to suck it up and get through medical school. The studnets I talked to said there are some students who whine about everything and that they excpect everything to be handed to them. I tell you this: if medical school were easy, the degree would be meaningless.

 

[DiverDoc]

jzeidenb:

Do you work at the University, because trying to suppress opinions happens to be their specialty? The last time I checked, this was a forum for people to gain information concerning the University. The only way one is to make an informed decision about where they are about to spend the next 4 years of their lives, is by hearing honest feedback concerning REAL issues to occur here.

There are real issues, such as massive cheating that the University helps facilitate by reusing the same questions. This issue has been brought forth to curriculum for the past 3 years that I know of and still they reuse the same questions. So if anyone is concerned about their grades (ie every student out there), then be warned that the students who have 5 years worth of test questions are at a distinct advantage over the students who have a conscience and chose not to cheat.

I am not on a campaign. My mission is to inform; to inform students to look more than skin deep at an institution. I made my decision, just as endocardium, and I will continue to plug along. At the end of the process, no matter what school you choose, you will be a doctor. However, wouldn't it be a more peaceful process if the system supported the student?

The more you rant the better I feel about KCUMB.

 

[Terpskins99]

...but I am a 3rd year at KCUMB. So I'll try to address some of the questions. 😉

Cheating - I think I know the incident that some people are referring to. And from the sounds of it, its getting blown way out of proportion. If you want to know more, you can PM me since I don't think its appropriate to bring up specifics in open forum.

Mandatory "Volunteer" work - there are only two things students are required to attend...
1) One day of group-assigned community service work (its part of orientation week prior to MS1). I got to go help cleanup a local old folks recreation center (and give carwashes to their old folks van), and afterwards talked with several of them about 1950's era kansas city. 😳
2) Score 1 for health - yes, we do go out quite a lot (especially now that they've added MS1's), but frankly I don't see why people are complaining. Its a nice change of pace from lecture (we usually don't have any lecture that day). The kids are really sweet. You get a LOT of great practice (good grief, with 1 peds, 2 family med and 1 rural medicine clinic rotations ahead of you, you'll need it).

 

[endocardium]

Um I call people like you NEGATIVE NANCY. Dear lord I hope I dont get banned for this but cmon, you made a comment about time issues. OBVIOUSLY you had time to go to SDN and complain. Due to recent activity I have talked to current students and they have nothing but positive things to say about the institution. The only negative comments that they have are due to students such as yourself who dont have enough get up to suck it up and get through medical school. The studnets I talked to said there are some students who whine about everything and that they excpect everything to be handed to them. I tell you this: if medical school were easy, the degree would be meaningless.

Well, I think you might be misunderstanding the situation. Sometimes words don't have the eloquence and precision to make certain points. Yes, we can type them out, but experience speaks much more loudly.

I cannot say more than I already have. No school is perfect, that's for sure. However, you expect that they would at least try to work in the best interest of their students, even despite all their imperfections. My experience is that the KCUMB is not working in the best interest of their students. Most of the time, they seem to approach our education with a lackidasical attitude. Their actions, which tell a much different tale than their words, suggest that they perhaps put our education at a lower priority than other things. Or perhaps they are just misguided. In any case, the students get shafted, whether they realize it or not.

I don't mean to complain. In fact, I don't give a damn. I just want to get past all this crap so I can move onto residency. I don't have any interest in making the school look bad or anything and I have nothing to gain from sharing my experience. I just wish someone sat me down and gave me the straight dope on this school. It looked so good at the interview, but as soon as school started, the rug was pull up under me. I'm not in the minority in my criticisms of the school. It's tough getting folks to spill the beans, though. The school is very good at keeping up their image. If they only spent half as much energy working toward our education as with making themselves look good to the community, to alumni, and future students, then we'd be rockin'.

It's a serious thing when a school suddenly loses a bunch of professors. It's pretty major when they are short staffed and then try to fill those positions with junior professors and adjunct staff, who sometimes lack teaching experience and who don't communicate and work well together. Furthermore, it's not ideal when these same professors are stuck teaching subjects they don't have any desire to teach, or subjects that aren't their primary area of expertise. Heck, sometimes more than one. I fail to understand why we don't have adequate experienced teaching staff. Did you know we just effectively lost our dean? No kidding. She's taking a leave of absense to work on her master's degree. My understanding is that she was an advocate of the students and now we won't really have her around. This is my education they are playing with and I'm not happy about it.

I know medical school is tough, but I've done tougher things in my life. It isn't that at all. I just, at times, get tired of dealing with this crap day-to-day. I feel scared for my future and whether this school will adequately prepare me for what is to come, with it having the issues that it has. I get fed up with all the crazy control trips that the school gets into. I'm sick of the folks not working together for the student's benefit. It's all completely unnecessary.

Whatever. If you want to put on blinders, go ahead. I don't give a ****. I just wanted to do you the favor that nobody really did for me. Do with it as you please. I'm a pretty level-headed person and I'm no stranger to hardship. I can handle difficult situations as long as they are justified. This isn't a problem. Also, I want to point out that I am not bitter. I take full responsibility for my choices; I blame no one.

I'm not saying there aren't good things about the school; there are. There are good days. However, make no mistake, the negatives are palpable. Don't ignore them. Make an informed decision; know what you are getting yourselves into.

Good luck.

 

[Yes_I_DO]

Just a few general comments:
I don't get on here much anymore, but I am sad to see all this commotion about KCUMB. Some of the things posted (mostly by endocardium) are in fact true. I think it is fair to say that the administration is having some "difficulty" at the moment that definitely affects students. But the beauty of KCUMB is that it has DECADES of experience of producing top-quality physicians. There are a lot of things to grumble about (and believe me, ppl will grumble [read: radioactivesci] but in the end, we are learning a TON of relevant information and are far more capable of using it in clinical settings than some of our MD counterparts. Results don't lie. KCUMB's reputation is far bigger than any of the pesky details that radioactivesci seems so bent on fuming over. Don't get me wrong, I rant and rave at school too about stupid crap that curriculum or administration is doing this time (it's kinda like you can pick on your little brother but you don't let just anyone do it). But 1) Im ranting to people that can appreciate the big picture; not impressionable pre-meds who have the weight of the world on their shoulders and could NEVER truly evaluate the school like those Negative Nancys are asking them too (you can never truly appreciate the nuances of a situation until you are in that situation); and 2) in the end IT DOESNT MATTER! The school really does make it easier for us to learn than a LOT of other med schools, so when some BS happens students get bent out of shape but forget that even with inconveniences, KCUMB is still more accommodating than most.
Oh, and the "issues" with curriculum (by curriculum I mean the department, not the material; I believe the material of our curriculum is top-notch; you'll learn to appreciate it when finals come around and studying makes so much more sense because everything has been repeated and represented so many different ways that things just "click") and administration DO NOT extend to most of the faculty here. We have some pretty pathetic lecturers, but I have YET to talk to any med student from anywhere where this is not the case--welcome to academics. But the core of our faculty are amazing at what they do. We truly do have some experts that love to teach and are ALWAYS available for students. Yes, we have a large class size, but unlike large research institutions, the faculty is here to teach. They are always encouraging us to come see them-for ANYTHING.
Ugh. Im tired, so Im rambling. Sorry. But the point of all this is to say that Im glad to see some pre-meds still have some perspective about this whole mess. Look hard enough and I promise you will find problems, but in the end I still argue that KCUMB will produce a better physician than all the schools I turned down to come here (and many more that I can think of...). I wont be coming back here to monitor the progression of this thread so dont bother attacking me and asking a million ridiculous flame-war Qs--I'll just ignore you. But if you have a serious concern or Q, please feel free to PM me. Good luck in your search. May you find a school that has (most of) what you most desire.

 

[endocardium]

All I'm saying is that you shouldn't become drunk with the image presented to you during your interview; the school is doing what they do best, market to you. Dig deeper and really really evaluate your choices. Take all the information you gather, put it all together, and then make an informed choice. After you make that choice, don't look back.

No school is perfect. Pick the one that fits you the best and that you think will prepare you best for residency. That's all you can do. Keep in mind that schools aren't just evaluating you, but you must also carefully evaluate the school. It's a huge investment. Choose wisely. I just wanted to present you with some things that you may not have been previously presented with. Do what you want with that information.

Good luck, premeds. I wish you well on your journey.

 

[Yes_I_DO]

Another issue that I have is with Score ONE. The University makes you buy expensive equipment (aprox $700) just so we can go out during Score One to do physical exams (once again this volunteer project also falls on the day before exams). A compassionate school would understand that the majority of students don't come from money and if they want us to complete Score One, then they should buy the equipment and allow us to check it out for the year. However, I am quite sure the school receives a big kick-back from selling 260 students $700 worth of equipment.

Can I just say that this is THE MOST ridiculous statement I have ever heard. You have GOT to be kidding me. The school doesn't make you buy this equipment for Score 1. We have to buy it because We are IN MEDICAL SCHOOL (just in case you forgot). When do you suppose you'd like to learn to use all of this equipment? When you actually go on rotations? "Um, Im sorry Dr Attending, I can't listen to that patient's heart sounds because I don't actually own a stethoscope." For crying out loud. And I know $700+ on medical equipment is a lot of money for an incoming student, but at $37k+/yr $700+ is the LEAST of your worries.

 

[spicedmanna]

I have a pathology practical tomorrow, so I'm going to keep this brief. I thought for a while about how to respond to some of the recent posts. I realized that if I either played cheerleader for the school, or played "Negative Nancy," the truth would be lost. I wouldn't being doing justice to the school in which I have become a student. Therefore, I'm neither going to confirm, nor deny what has been said. In everything, there is some truth, and there is certainly no monopoly on it; trust yourself to guide you to what is pertinent. The information is out there; you decide for yourself.

I remember a concept that one of mentors tried to instill in me. He often alluded to the principle that there were two camps of people: one where everything was wrong in the world and the other, where everything was perfect just the way that it was. The second camp, he hinted, was going to be the happier of the two. I am of the second camp. I don't just mean that you should be happy where you are, but also it is best to simply accept all that is around, all that you have created, as being fundamentally okay just as it is. I recommend this to you as well.

Often it isn't the surroundings that are amiss, but our inability to be happy in our own skin. Many problems can be traced back to a place where we aren't willing to accept what is. Yes, the school might have some problems. I won't ennumerate them. It's pointless. However, I will say that I think KCUMB is going to prepare me well for residency. Despite some kinks, I feel that I am on the right track. I think KCUMB was the right choice for me because ultimately, as a wholely aligned person, I felt that it was. And no matter how much information we gather, at the end, we are still going to go with our gut. Only time will tell if it was the best choice. I am learning much more than I could have imagined. Yes, it's not without it's difficulties, but somehow, I am making it all work for me. You see, it's not so much the school that shapes who we are, or who we will become, it is completely ourselves. We are presented with certain resources, it is up to us to make the most of them, no matter where we are. I think KCUMB has those resources.

Every place has both similar as well as unique issues. Yet, they are only as significant as we let them be. If your focus is in the right place, you won't care that much about them, once you've fully landed on the place you want to attend.

Good luck in your choice. Keep yourself open to learning and choose a place where you feel completely aligned with, body, mind, and soul.

 

[spicedmanna]

Choosing a school to attend can be like choosing a family to belong to. What family doesn't have some sort of dysfunction, whether overt or hidden, minor or major? There's no universal right answer as to which school is going to be best. Find the family that you align most with, one who you think will help you grow into the physician that you want to be.

 

[spicedmanna]

Historically, graduates from KCUMB are able to attend the residency of their choice. The first-choice match rate is in the range of 90+ %. Generally speaking, KCUMB has a good reputation among residency program directors for producing outstanding residents and for preparing students for the road ahead.

 

[jzeidenb]

yeah spiced, i essentially agree with you and thats what I was trying to say in my response.

No place is perfect and I sensed far more nitpicking than necessary going on and it seemed like the posters felt it was exclusive to KCUMB.


edit: i thought i should clarify that i was more rubbed the wrong way by radioactivs posts, i thought there were nothing wrong with what endocardium said or was trying to convey.




also, can someone tell me exactly when year I ends.. im curious bc my sister is abroad in italy next spring and i was hoping to be able to visit her at the end of the year before she comes back

 

[radioactivesci]

Can I just say that this is THE MOST ridiculous statement I have ever heard. You have GOT to be kidding me. The school doesn't make you buy this equipment for Score 1. We have to buy it because We are IN MEDICAL SCHOOL (just in case you forgot). When do you suppose you'd like to learn to use all of this equipment? When you actually go on rotations? "Um, Im sorry Dr Attending, I can't listen to that patient's heart sounds because I don't actually own a stethoscope." For crying out loud. And I know $700+ on medical equipment is a lot of money for an incoming student, but at $37k+/yr $700+ is the LEAST of your worries.

You will fit in perfectly here with your snotty attitude. Buying a stethoscope is one thing, having to buy the rest of the equipment is another. I know for a fact that MU & KU don't require you to buy the equipment because EVERY doctors office we work at will have an otoscope, etc on the wall for us to use. Therefore, based upon that, is how I feel that the University is making us buy the extra equipment to participate in Score One. You feel free to buy the equipment for it to sit in your closet someday. However for some of us we don't have mommy & daddy paying our way and feel that it is an unnecessary expense when the school could just have us check it out.

As to the cheating comment posted earlier by someone who says that this is being blown out of proportion, you are entitled to your own opinion. However the fact remains that many 2nd year students paid for JiTT quiz questions that ARE a part of our question pool. That is their choice in using the questions, however as a physician, I hold myself to a higher standard.

My last comment will reply to volunteering at KCUMB. It is NOT true that the only 2 volunteer projects we participate are at the begining of MS1 and Score One. I know for a fact that 2nd years were mandated to volunteer at a project the school chose for them. What frightens me is that there were some students assigned to places at 7:00pm in very unsafe neighborhoods. A single female should never have to jeopardize her safety in order to complete a project for the school.

With that said, I am with endocardium. My point here was merely to inform and you are fee to make your choice. I, too am only providing information that I wish that I had available to me. Good luck in your endeavors...like I said before, you will be a doctor at the end of your journey no matter what school you choose.

 

[allisome]

However for some of us we don't have mommy & daddy paying our way and feel that it is an unnecessary expense when the school could just have us check it out.

Well my mommy & daddy definitely aren't paying much, if any at all, of my way through medical school. I will be taking out plenty of loans to get through...but personally, I can't wait to buy my own set of medical equipment. I have friends at other schools who have had to buy them, and it seems like all of the schools I've heard about offer the equipment at discounted prices compared to what you would normally buy them for. Being that I used to play "doctor" when I was younger, pretending that my disc-man headphones were a stethoscope.... I absolutely can't wait to have real equipment because it will probably be one of the first things that will make me feel like a real doctor! Besides, $700 isn't gonna seem like much out of the whole picture when you're paying off your loans after graduation. Bring on the stethoscope!! 😀

 

[deadeyedk]

just thought i'd put in my two cents that may not be worth much, but whatever....

others have said this is one way or another: EVERY school has its issues. some are big and some are small. it doesn't make much sense to me, as a pre-med trying to make an informed decision, to focus on the small stuff. in fact, a school could have a great deal of tiny problems that wouldn't bother me a bit if they made up for it with the big stuff. kcumb is clearly very good at preparing its students for the road ahead (i.e. board exams and residency placement). the school's numbers and reputation in those areas are impressive.

i'll respond with my gut reaction to a couple of issues brought up. about the "cheating"... who cares? it's great that you can pat yourself on the back for not participating in questionable academic behavior, but why worry about whether someone else is doing it? it's going to happen for the rest of your life in one way or another. there will always be people who will stop at nothing to get ahead. unless that behavior has truly ugly consequences (i.e. harming someone else) then you can't get bent out of shape every time someone acts like an a**hole. don't get me wrong, i wouldn't be doing it either... but sometimes you just have to pride yourself in your own integrity and know that one day it will catch up to those who have none.

about the $700 equipment. eh. i'll go with the last person who posted about it. in the big picture, it's not THAT much money. sure, it kinda sucks to shell out for it. but hey, you're gonna be a doctor and now you have a bag of stuff to prove it. also, i've talked to several kcumb students who have said they've rarely bought a text book. looking at it that way, you can call it a wash. again $50K+/year for tuition and living expenses plus $700 for a bag of cool doctor stuff... it's not even worth worrying about it.

about the guy who failed a test but actually didn't fail it. my first reaction to that post was: "whoa... kcumb students get to retake tests if they fail?" i know my friends at other med schools don't have that luxury. sounds like a deal to me. the outcome of that situation could have been so much worse. a truly great professor probably wouldn't have made that mistake, but a truly lazy and careless professor would never have realized that he had made a mistake. sure, wasting a weekend is enough to make anyone upset... but to characterize an entire school because of one mistake (and it sounds like an honest mistake) is ridiculous. like someone else said: "welcome to academia." professors screw up. a lot of them don't take the time that students think they deserve. in a perfect world professors would wait on us hand and foot, but that doesn't happen anywhere.

all of that being said, i still haven't decided whether or not i'll attend kcumb. based on what i've read and heard from current students, i think i would be very happy there. no matter where i go, there will be things that will suck about the school. hopefully, there will be other things that make up for the bad points.

we've all worked very hard to get to a position where attending med school is a reality, and sometimes we feel that our hard work has earned us special privileges or that the rest of the road will be easy. but med school is still school and if you let the minutia of everyday school life get you down, then the rest of your life will only get harder.

pick your battles and appreciate what you've got.

good luck to everyone who is applying and trying to make sound decisions, and good luck to those working their butts off to get though med school.

 

[osli]

I wasn't sure if I really wanted to humor some of the comments made recently, but since KCUMB is still conducting interviews and more than one person may take a skewed message from this thread I thought perhaps I should.

Let me first be very clear that no school is perfect. There are students at KCUMB who are very disillusioned with the staff, faculty, curriculum, administration, whatever. I personally have been disappointed in a couple of things. But the big picture is that (1) there are a handful out of some ~1000 current students who are truly unsatisfied with their school, with the rest simply realizing that life isn't perfect and neither is any one person or institution, and (2) for the things which I've personally had problems with the faculty or administration or both have been very receptive to discussion and change. If you think you're going to be accepted to a school that doesn't present you with a single problem, challenge, or disappointment in four years... think again.

Where I differ from some of the previous posters is that I don't think the school is out to just make a buck, ignores student concerns, or any of the other accusations. People often have that impression of any system that they "run up against" and I suppose that these students have been in that situation. There are a couple at any school that will look and sound identical to these. Now for some of the specific issues raised...

Score One: Yes, we (second years especially) have had several score one "days" scheduled at very inconvenient times regarding exam dates. I really don't know what curriculum was thinking. The class has been very vocal about this issue, and the staff has listened. Score One is essentially done for this school year, but it is very likely that changes to this schedule will be made for next year. As for "having" to buy equipment - you need to purchase a stethoscope regardless. I personally borrowed the rest of my equipment. The school does not require that you buy a specific brand or type regarding otoscope and ophthalmoscope and blood pressure cuff set, only that you have this equipment available to you. You are free to shop on ebay or pawn shops if you like, or borrow like I did to avoid the extra $500 cost. I personally don't think it is necessary to own this equipment past rotations (and really past second year, though it may occasionally come in handy), but on the other hand it doesn't seem that strange for a physician to own the minimal tools of his trade either.

Community Service:You are required to do one service project during your orientation week (pretty much a full day), and then one project during your second year which amounts to two or three hours. I don't like being told when to volunteer either, but to be honest the experience for me and most people I have talked to was positive, even if they didn't like the idea of being 'forced' into it. And in the end, if a day and a half over the course of four years is too much for your, you probably won't be happy anywhere.

Professionalism: KCUMB instituted a "professionalism" program a few years ago because the NBOME was mandating that the "dean's letter" contain an assessment of each student's professionalism. Students (several years ago) were asked for input on how to make such a system fair, and the initial system was almost entirely student derived. People didn't like it. Students again were asked for input, and last year student committees made changes to the system. People still didn't like it. The school decided that nothing proposed was really fair or workable, so they simply got rid of any numerical assessment system. They are still trying to figure out (like most schools, probably) how to "rate" a student's professionalism. I don't see how anyone could be pissed about this... this isn't the school's idea, but a mandate from above. The school let students develop the system, and when it became clear that the student body still didn't feel the system was adequate the school essentially bucked the mandate and said "not until we come up with a good system." How's that for ignoring student concerns?

Professors: KCUMB has some terrific faculty. There are one or two I don't like, but fortunately they are not mainstays of each section. Clinical lectures are often taught by guest and adjunct faculty in private practice, which is usually how it should be. KCUMB certainly did lose some good faculty a couple of years ago. Why? Because they were fantastic professors, new DO schools were opening, and they were made what I would assume were very generous offers. This is a case of taking the wrong message away from a set of facts... the professors didn't leave because they were unsatisfied with KCUMB, they left because they were some of the very best. It is a complement to the school that when other schools open, KCUMB is often where they look for good faculty.

Weaver Auditorium: The auditorium seats some 1500 people. With a graduating class of 250 at the most, and about that many faculty and guest physicians, that leaves about 4 family/friend members per graduating student. We all know that not every student will have four family members or friends that they will invite, so there will be more seats available for other students' guests. I do think this will cause some problems, but they will be limited in scope and number. Most students wanting to bring five or even six guests will likely be able to... a few insisting on bringing eight or nine may not be able to, and I'm sure we'll all hear an uproar about that. If you have a huge family, and will be highly upset if all twelve can't come to your graduation, and that is a big factor for where you want to attend school, then by all means consider it. You'll find that some schools also have limited seating in the graduation facilities while others are essentially unlimited. You can probably ask during your interviews and get that information.

Feedback/input from students: The school does require students to complete a "continuous quality improvement" survey after each section. However, one option is to simply check a box that says "I prefer to opt out of this survey." It takes three seconds. I'd hardly think that is an inconvenience. On the other hand, the information gleaned from those surveys is not ignored. The curriculum has undergone significant revision and improvement over the years primarily due to student input. Cardiology and Pulmonology sections were combined into a single cardiopulmonary section to facilitate lectures that applied equally to both, and to facilitate a better interleaving of lectures between those two subjects. The Skin/Blood/Lymph section was moved from first year to second year. The Renal section was moved from second to first. Quite a few hematology lectures were moved from Skin/Blood/Lymph to Cardiopulmonary. OMT lectures were rearranged to better mirror the new curriculum. Quizzes were added after the first week in a few sections instead of after the first two weeks when students voiced their concerns about too many heavy-hitting lectures on one test. The ability to listen to lectures from home was a student request. Wireless on campus. And hundreds of minor tweaks to the ordering of lectures within a section, the arrangement of afternoon labs, how to best handle small group discussions, etc. As far as the curriculum goes, students have a very tangible impact. As far as running the school goes, I'd like to know of any college or medical school where students get much say!

"Making the almighty buck:" Not much to say here since KCUMB's tuition isn't really out of line with other private medical schools, but since a lot of students seem to have the popular opinion that "our tuition would be cheaper if they didn't keep building these new facilities" I'd just like to clarify that every new building is paid for before construction begins entirely through alumni donations and fundraising drives. Student tuition increases only marginally as the cost of running the campus (grounds and maintenance crews, power and heating, etc.) increases as new facilities are added.

"Not in the minority in my criticisms": Well, I guess that depends on how you like to look at things. I can think of a few issues that I have with the school, and if I made a survey or just asked around I'd have a vast majority of students agree with me. But the reality is that I recognize these issues as simply ways in which the school can improve in the future, and so do most other students. There are only a handful which feel that there is a great conspiracy against students, and I'm pretty sure there are a handful like that anywhere. I know a couple here personally, so I do know they exist. And I agree with a lot of their concerns... I just don't agree with the magnitude nor the motivations they seem so certain of.

I guess I just think it is a terrific school. Funny how a comment was made that after acceptance the "rug was pulled out from under..." or whatever. For me, there were many outstanding things about the school that I did not know until well after I started. Like a classmate described just the other day, I had many conversations with friends and family in that first few months that started with "my school is so awesome - you won't believe...."

Over the past ten years KCUMB has re-emerged as one of the premiere DO schools, and it wasn't because they sacrificed the education of students in the pursuit of making money. Our graduates are consistently regarded as competent and well educated, personable and well prepared for rotations and residencies, and consistently land competitive residencies of their choice. I think that probably speaks well enough for itself, but I did want to address some of these issues specifically for those that were concerned and interested.

 

[t-funk]

Thanks everyone for coming and responding. It was really hard to watch people like Tachymeter come in here and say they were less interested in the school now after reading some things. I don't think most people are expecting perfection when they are looking for a school, but somewhere where they feel at home and that they are given the necessary tools to accomplish what they want to. I think and hope that KCUMB does that and I just hope people aren't turned off before they even give it a chance. I know I'm really excited to be there next year.

 

[endocardium]

Well, I'd like to think I am a pretty level-headed person. I certainly didn't get this far by being an idiot. As I mentioned before, I am generally a happy person. I am not bitter. In fact, my life is rather good. I'm doing well in school and am going to be a physician. Seriously, do you think I would cite the points I cited for no reason? Please. 🙄

I have no interest in making the school look bad, especially since I'm a student there. I have nothing to gain from this. I'm just doing my best to provide some extra data that a potential student can use to consider their choice like I wished others would have done for me. Next time exercise some judgment before lumping me into the "bitter student with a poor attitude category."

As I said before, who would you rather listen to, admission staff/ambassadors, who are obvioulsy biased, or people who actually attend, or have attended, the school and have experienced it through thick and thin? I know not everyone has the same opinions, but I can almost guarantee there is a significant voice regarding the issues that I described earlier. It isn't just a few bad apples in a barrel.

It is pretty obvious that Osli is speaking in an official capacity. Just look at the tone of his post. What student would talk like that, especially a second year student?? Don't believe the hype, folks. I'm not saying that KCUMB is a bad school. On the contrary. If you look at prior posts, I definitely express that I think KCUMB is a good school. However, it has some significant faults that you need to consider before jumping aboard. Whatever you do, make sure you make an informed and conscious choice; that's all I'm hoping for. Don't get blindsided by some school propaganda.

The truth of the matter is that the school DOES force you (like it does with other things) to buy the full arsenal of equipment and it is all pre-packaged for you, from WelchAllyn. You do have some choice, for example, color, battery-type, and electronic steth, but it is limited. It's not a big deal, but you should know the truth.

I have no problem with Score1. In fact, it has been a fun experience for me and I have indeed learned a lot from attending the event. However, it is idiotic for a school to force someone to do it, in my humble opinion. It's a professional school and we are all adults. Try some positive reinforcement. Studies show that it works better. 🙄

The whole professionalism thing, the way our school does it, is flavored by the tendency of the school to be on a control trip. I mean, we are all adults here. Seriously. It's completely fascist. I can't believe any students would try to set it up this way. Have, you, Osli, ever been called into the professionalism office? Do you know what it is like? I see NO reason to monitor and control our academic lives the way that the office wants to do it. It's way far to the right of the spectrum, if you ask me. Did I leave the US and enter into some kind of fascist state? Whatever. It is what it is. I'm just saying that you should know that it feels pretty uncomfortable to have people breathing down your neck day in and day out, dictating to you what you should do, etc. It's liveable, but why would you, if you had a choice, plut yourself in this sort of enviroment where people report on you for the most mundane and rediculous things? Of course, if you go looking for problems, I think you'll find some. Like I said, it's Orwellian, a la 1984. This needs to end soon. If it's true that professionalism must be evaluated, I am sure there are better ways. Sheesh.

On the topic of really good professors leaving: it's a big deal. Why can't KCUMB keep them? If they were happy, wouldn't you think they would stay? Maybe they weren't getting paid enough, or treated right? Seriously, this fact alone speaks louder than anything else. Your assertion, Osli, doesn't explain anything; it's propaganda, pure and simple. Also, at the end of the day, it is NOT a good thing to have a bunch of adjunct or new (and some of them rather poor communicators at that) professors who don't talk to one another and to our own teaching staff. It manages to work, but don't you think it would be better to have long-time staff in each department? I would seriously question any school who has these kinds of academic practices. Get better and more experience professors, please. And keep them.

You never addressed the issue of poor collaboration and communication. My guess is because you know it's true and can't even come up with propaganda to cover it up. There are cluster-****'s constantly as a result of the lack of coordination. Granted, they aren't a big deal by themselves, but when you add them all together, it starts to impact your learning experience.

Everyone knows that Weaver is a pet project of the president (who by the way, is one of the highest paid presidents...). There are some good things about it, but it seems more like a money-maker (weddings, community events, etc.) than beneficial for the students. I think this money could have been better spent.

On feedback: I never said that the school doesn't listen, but I said that they listened through a filter.

On OMT: consider another school if you are really serious about it. You'll probably manage to learn everything you need, but... yeah...when your professors need to read the book step by step (and still manage to screw it up) to teach you some OMT technique... I'll just leave it at that.

Okay, whatever. Kids, do what you want. I still say that KCUMB is a good school, even despite all it's faults. It does manage to have a good reputation and it does send folks to good residency programs. At the end of the day, that's what truly matters.

Consider carefully; it's a big investment. KCUMB will get you there, but know what you are getting yourself into. No school is going to be perfect, but you should know their faults before matriculating, so you can prepare properly. Fore-warned, is fore-armed. Good luck!

 

[Tachymeter]

Thanks everyone for coming and responding. It was really hard to watch people like Tachymeter come in here and say they were less interested in the school now after reading some things. I don't think most people are expecting perfection when they are looking for a school, but somewhere where they feel at home and that they are given the necessary tools to accomplish what they want to. I think and hope that KCUMB does that and I just hope people aren't turned off before they even give it a chance. I know I'm really excited to be there next year.

I never said I was less interested just ready for bs. I've heard lots of good stuff about KCUMB, my DO went there and he has told me. Its just that sometimes you need to take consideration of the negative aspects too. I have several schools to choose from and I want to make the best decision possible. Posters like endocardium give me another aspect to look at, as do people like yourself. Don't get so upset next time t-funk.