Last second advise

[HoboCommander]

Probably wasn't a choice.

That sucks. I keep hearing all this negative crap about all the schools that I really want to attend.

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[JaggerPlate]

That sucks. I keep hearing all this negative crap about all the schools that I really want to attend.

What schools are they?

 

[HoboCommander]

What schools are they?

I drove to the rotation sites that Touro-CA and Western students rotate at and all the students I've asked say that their school sucks. I was like "Do you like Western?" and they shake their heads with a sad look on their face. I've also talked to some residents who graduated from Touro-CA and they say that they hate their school because of the rotations. I ask them what is wrong about them and they don't give me a clear answer.

 

[JaggerPlate]

I drove to the rotation sites that Touro-CA and Western students rotate at and all the students I've asked say that their school sucks. I was like "Do you like Western?" and they shake their heads with a sad look on their face. I've also talked to some residents who graduated from Touro-CA and they say that they hate their school because of the rotations. I ask them what is wrong about them and they don't give me a clear answer.

I think you have the wrong idea about Western. It isn't in the same category as TU-CA.

 

[HoboCommander]

I think you have the wrong idea about Western. It isn't in the same category as TU-CA.

Why do you say this?

 

[JaggerPlate]

Why do you say this?

Because it's an older, established school with the rotations down pretty well from what I understand. I mean, you can ask OMS from Western on the boards, but I've NEVER heard complaints about their rotations like I have out of the Touro-CA bunch.

 

[Flushot]

Well, rather than studying, I've read word for word the major posts in this thread and I am rather bummed

I chose AZCOM despite not having much to choose from, but I do feel I can endure, given the circumstances. They tell us a lot of things about the changes, but I don't want to condemn the experience so early on.

I know that it's our responsibility as students to make sure that the sites are of quality and adequacy in terms of training while on the interview trail (hearing about that AZCOM grad who never had in-patient training is a bit depressing), but again, it was the best for what I got and I stand by the decision knowing the hardship that might come along. I guess you can say I'm at a loss for words, but I want to believe that given the effort, we can make the best out of what we've got.

 

[Meat]

I don't go to Touro Ca, NV or AZCOM but I've heard many bad experience stories during rotations at these schools (maybe its a west coast thing except for Western). I'm just curious, if these school's rotations suck so much, how come they are able to have such good match results almost every year? Is it luck that they recruit hardworking students that pull their own legwork? Or are rotations just a hit or miss?

OP, sorry to hear about your situation. Goodluck!

I've seen a few Western students rotate at the GI lab in my hospital (I volunteer), Queen of the Valley, West Covina, CA. This is not an upper nor middle class teaching hospital. If this is representative of the kind of rotations Western students get, perhaps it's rotations need some help as well.

 

[Septo Shock]

I don’t go to Western but you guys have got to realize that it’s not the size of the hospital that determines how well the rotations are, it’s the presence of a teaching hierarchy that matters most. If you rotate at a huge hospital but have attendings or residents that hate to teach or believe that med students get in their way, then your education will still suck. People have told me that they’ve been surprised at how much they were able to do at smaller hospitals. However, larger hospitals do bring more pathology.


Unfortunately, this scenario (with students rotating at smaller hospitals) is common with a lot of DO schools and even some MD schools since most DO schools do not have their own University Affiliated Hospital. Therefore students are sent out to various hospitals. Most of the students will end up at hospitals/clinics (ranging from decent to great) but there will always be a bunch (some schools have more than others) that end up at a crappy location or be paired with an attending that hates their presence and lets them do nothing except “shadow”. It is completely unfair and BS that some students will suffer. I wish AOA and COCA would something about this instead of opening more schools and expanding class sizes.


If you have a choice, then go to a school with the better rotations and where the students are most happy not just the first 2 yrs but all 4 years. If you don’t have a choice, your success to match into a good residency is not over since there have been great match lists and great board scores that have been generated even from “SDN’s worst schools”. You’ll have to put in the extra leg work and make sure you own boards. Even sacrifice a vacation month if you have to, to make up for a crappy rotation. Go to that school, be happy that you’re going to become a doctor and be ready for anything that will come in your way 3rd and 4th year. People have done it, so can you!

 

[goooooober]

Well, rather than studying, I've read word for word the major posts in this thread and I am rather bummed

I chose AZCOM despite not having much to choose from, but I do feel I can endure, given the circumstances. They tell us a lot of things about the changes, but I don't want to condemn the experience so early on.

I know that it's our responsibility as students to make sure that the sites are of quality and adequacy in terms of training while on the interview trail (hearing about that AZCOM grad who never had in-patient training is a bit depressing), but again, it was the best for what I got and I stand by the decision knowing the hardship that might come along. I guess you can say I'm at a loss for words, but I want to believe that given the effort, we can make the best out of what we've got.

You have the right attitude. The thing is that if you go to one of these schools, you just have to educate yourself about their system and be ready to work harder than your MD counterparts to get a good education. You do not have to get an inferior education just because you chose to go to a D.O. school, as long as you work harder, get as many of those good teaching hospital-based rotations as possible (even if you have to travel ), and make sure you are studying hard and learning the material.

I don't feel that my education was inferior to any of my MD counterparts. I just know that I had to work a hell of lot harder to get it and pay a hell of a lot higher for what I got. I also realize that my school was never behind me or cared much about me. This was also the case for the vast majority of my classmates. They turned out to be outstanding physicians, but had to work harder.

The bottom line is you have to do what you have to do. Don't be discouraged. Approach it with the right attitude, work hard, and don't lose your focus on the most important thing for medical school, to land the residency of your dreams. You will be fine.

 

[MSmentor018]

The bottom line is you have to do what you have to do. Don't be discouraged. Approach it with the right attitude, work hard, and don't lose your focus on the most important thing for medical school, to land the residency of your dreams. You will be fine.

well put! putting the time in and working hard is the key to any school/ rotations. I had a very diff exp: during 3rd yr I had all private attendings, 1:1 the whole time. sure I missed out on formal lectures, my workload much heavier, and missed out on the academic based system but I got a ton more hands on exp than my counterparts at the nearby academic training center. a few docs even carried a strong name in their field. educationally I had to read more to keep up with the shelf exams. now as a 4th yr I am at all residency program hospitals gunning for a spot and finishing with outstanding results. I am so glad my school didn't assign me to large academic centers and 4th yr is unrestricted (except for EM). the downside (or upside) of course is you have to do a large amount of leg work in finding your own spots. good luck

 

[hopeinternist]

hi everyone,

i was wondering if anyone knew how 3rd years and 4th years students generally fared at UMDNJ-SOM. is the program there good? hey mostly nj rotation sites, but i m not too sure how teaching oriented they are and whether those sites are more one on one or with residents, interns etc. Any input on umdnj-soms program would be much appreciated. thanks!

 

[JaggerPlate]

hi everyone,

i was wondering if anyone knew how 3rd years and 4th years students generally fared at UMDNJ-SOM. is the program there good? hey mostly nj rotation sites, but i m not too sure how teaching oriented they are and whether those sites are more one on one or with residents, interns etc. Any input on umdnj-soms program would be much appreciated. thanks!

look in the 'pros and cons of your DO school' thread. I believe they are generally quite good though.

 

[Doctor Bob]

Well, some good news for those considering NSUCOM (Nova). The administration puts a lot of effort into securing good core rotation sites, getting contracts with the hospitals to secure spots long before the students show up (and the contracts often limit the number of non NSUCOM students that can rotate there, so as not to flood the hospitals with rotators), and put a lot of money back into the campus infrastructure (rather than opening branch campuses).

My 3rd and 4th years were more academically rigorous than what I see the 3rd and 4th years doing at the program I'm at now. Granted, now I'm looking at it with resident eyes, but still.

 

[TeamZissou]

but you guys have got to realize that it’s not the size of the hospital that determines how well the rotations are, it’s the presence of a teaching hierarchy that matters most. If you rotate at a huge hospital but have attendings or residents that hate to teach or believe that med students get in their way, then your education will still suck. People have told me that they’ve been surprised at how much they were able to do at smaller hospitals. However, larger hospitals do bring more pathology.

Just to add a somewhat specific example to this... My friend is a third year right now and did an elective surgery rotation in her home town in Montana (not a huge place). She then went on to do her required surgery rotation at Cook County and said it was awesome because she was able to learn a lot in her home town prior to going to Cook County and thus she was pretty much given free reign to do what she knew how there. She said her experience at Cook County wouldn't have been nearly as good if it was her first Surgery rotation because they Residents there are so busy they don't really have time to teach you everything, but on the plus side anything you know how to do they let you have at it so you can gain some amazing experience.

So in my opinion this is the perfect mix of gaining hands on experience in a place where you are likely to get more one on one teaching and then using that to really gain from seeing a wider range of pathology that is present in the bigger hospitals.

 

[The Poet Sings]

Well, some good news for those considering NSUCOM (Nova). The administration puts a lot of effort into securing good core rotation sites, getting contracts with the hospitals to secure spots long before the students show up (and the contracts often limit the number of non NSUCOM students that can rotate there, so as not to flood the hospitals with rotators), and put a lot of money back into the campus infrastructure (rather than opening branch campuses).

My 3rd and 4th years were more academically rigorous than what I see the 3rd and 4th years doing at the program I'm at now. Granted, now I'm looking at it with resident eyes, but still.

good to know. i interviewed there and am now just waiting for some good news. thanks to others who have told me what to look for in a school. i hope my question didn't contribute to the derailment of a thread or take too much away from the original question posed.

 

[Flushot]

You have the right attitude. The thing is that if you go to one of these schools, you just have to educate yourself about their system and be ready to work harder than your MD counterparts to get a good education. You do not have to get an inferior education just because you chose to go to a D.O. school, as long as you work harder, get as many of those good teaching hospital-based rotations as possible (even if you have to travel ), and make sure you are studying hard and learning the material.

I don't feel that my education was inferior to any of my MD counterparts. I just know that I had to work a hell of lot harder to get it and pay a hell of a lot higher for what I got. I also realize that my school was never behind me or cared much about me. This was also the case for the vast majority of my classmates. They turned out to be outstanding physicians, but had to work harder.

The bottom line is you have to do what you have to do. Don't be discouraged. Approach it with the right attitude, work hard, and don't lose your focus on the most important thing for medical school, to land the residency of your dreams. You will be fine.

Thanks for the response. I figured nothing is impossible before it really begins.

That said, I don't know if people are going to be inherently screwed. I remember a post discussing how some students were bragging about how they were getting out at 2pm and sleeping in until 10am often. I, like the poster, would feel short changed in that situation or more realistically, afraid that I'll be screwed when I have to actually do something or know something.

I guess people just put a lot of faith into their institutions and rest thinking it will work out. I can't imagine this being the case for every school, but I guess you can only truly know from one school.

 

[ShyRem]

I have never had a rotation where I got out at 2pm and slept until 10am. I'm currently on a rotation where I don't have to be in until 9am and I think that's absolutely heavenly.

 

[Flushot]

I have never had a rotation where I got out at 2pm and slept until 10am. I'm currently on a rotation where I don't have to be in until 9am and I think that's absolutely heavenly.

Honestly, if I was having it as easy as the example I used, I'd be extremely worried and would try to find a way to get more time in without looking like a gunner. Then again, if half the time I would be standing around being shooed to the next preceptor, I don't know if the extra time would be worth it.

 

[MSmentor018]

I think we hijacked this thread....didn't the op ask a whole diff question?

 

[dozitgetchahi]

Some of the responses in this thread are making me a bit concerned about years 3/4. Here at UMDNJ-SOM, there are rumors trickling down about some sort of "major shake-up" in year 3/4 clinical rotations... apparently many of the school's local rotation sites want to eliminate student rotations (and residencies too) because they are "too expensive" to operate during the recession. SOM also allows some students (16-18) to rotate on UMDNJ's "North Track", which utilizes Christ Hospital in Jersey City. However, I don't know if Christ Hospital is all that great either...which really makes we wonder what kind of quality I can expect when I head out on rotations.

What can you do to ensure you actually learn what you need to know on your clerkships?

 

[MSmentor018]

Some of the responses in this thread are making me a bit concerned about years 3/4. Here at UMDNJ-SOM, there are rumors trickling down about some sort of "major shake-up" in year 3/4 clinical rotations... apparently many of the school's local rotation sites want to eliminate student rotations (and residencies too) because they are "too expensive" to operate during the recession. SOM also allows some students (16-18) to rotate on UMDNJ's "North Track", which utilizes Christ Hospital in Jersey City. However, I don't know if Christ Hospital is all that great either...which really makes we wonder what kind of quality I can expect when I head out on rotations.

What can you do to ensure you actually learn what you need to know on your clerkships?

sorry to hear about your school, in light of your downsizing, I don't know if you can ensure you'll get a quality rotation but you can make the most of it. can you call around and set up your own? either way, the more exposure you have, the better. i can only imagine it's hard when they downsize and toss a bunch of students together. if you can't get the hands on exp, then at least try to observe as much as you can. you may need to ask the attending if you can roam around to other parts of the hospital. what you need to know...first aid for whatever specialty is a very general all around reading for what's expected. of course studying for the shelf exam is vital.

 

[tifsahoy]

Just my 2 cents...

I go to Touro NV. It seems like rotations are what you make it. A recent example of my roommate's rotation: You have to ask the anesthesiologist if you want to intubate someone - and he/she WILL let you. But if you don't then you're just shadowing.

Also, it's always easier for people to complain about their school than praise it. Always.