LCME accreditation for Osteopathic Schools

Discussion in 'Medical Students - DO' started by fuegorama, May 1, 2004.

  1. fuegorama

    fuegorama Senior Member
    5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2004
    Messages:
    596
    Likes Received:
    1
    A search for dually recognized programs turned up multiple threads on PG training.

    Are there any LCME & AOA licensing board combined program schools?

    If not, why not?

    How could this be changed?

    My prophylactic answer to the first response of "why do you want this?" is...I am worried about perceptions of my degree. I feel my school training is at least as rigorous as the majority of allo. programs. I am weary of the self-segregation of the Osteopathic profession. If osteopathy is as great as we tout, then we owe it to ourselves and future patients to incorporate this discipline into more practices. This would include agressive education of future physicians regardless of title.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  2. drusso

    Physician Moderator Emeritus Lifetime Donor Verified Account 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 1998
    Messages:
    7,154
    Likes Received:
    2,254
    Status:
    Attending Physician

    Well, the short answer to your question is that dual certification is redundant. I think that it would be viewed as a great capitulation to the MD world if DO schools rolled over and sought LCME accreditation. Besides, fundamentally, osteopathic medicine is as much an autonomous profession as it is a social movement. As with any social movements, you have a continuum of beliefs and a more or less "liberal to conservative" gradient of ideology within the movement. Its hard to have a successful social movement when you devalue your own standards.

    I am certain that your school's training is at least as good as the majority of allopathic programs and probably better. I think that you're going through a phase of development in osteopathic professional identification and attitude development: I think that for some people, especially those who have never been "attention seekers" or have always more or less "played by the rules" or stuck to the "tried and true" or "straight and narrow" opting for an alternative medical degree (alternative in the sense that it is not the majority "-MD" degree) is scary.

    Apply yourself, work hard, learn and become comfortable with OMM and touching patients, and you'll see that things will work out just fine: You'll be just as likely to land your residency of choice as any MD student. It does help to take the USMLE and rotate at big name MD programs if you're interested in competitive ACGME residencies---that's just good professional gamesmanship.

    As far as the "self-segregation" thing goes---this is true to various degrees everywhere in all fields. The Ivies self-segregate, Mayo is very provincial, the East Coast programs look down the midwest, the southern/southeastern programs tend to recruit among themselves. I think you'd find this to be true in almost any field. Many older DO's who faced a lot of prejudice in their training days still remember the sting of being denied hospital privileges and licenses and carry those experiences with them. The fact of the matter is that with every passing generation things get better in the osteopathic world---the move toward creating OPTI's, dual certification ACGME/AOA residencies, developing evidence-based manipulative medicine, etc has almost been exclusively driven by younger DO's who trained in a variety of settings and embrace a more "progressive" view of osteopathy.

    Try not to stress about this and remember its easier to work for change from within than it is to force it from the outside.
     
  3. fuegorama

    fuegorama Senior Member
    5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2004
    Messages:
    596
    Likes Received:
    1
    Super Mod-
    Thanks for the great post. It is a definite phase I am hitting. Besides my breasts getting sore and my recent 1/2" gain in height, I have been moody and my voice sounds funny.

    However, the real reason for my new found lack of faith in the osteopathic path is in large part due to a recent string of events. The match, a series of embarassing OMM lectures, and most recently a truly bizarre afternoon talk given by President Beehler. (If this fruit loop is leading the DO fleet as captain of the mothership, put me in port.)

    I appreciate your sage advice. I will be applying to ACGME programs. I will take the USMLE. I will pray that the PD at somewhere besides Squirreltree USA sees past the rubes of this crowd and finds in me the doc I thought a DO program would help me produce.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  4. Lexmark

    Lexmark Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2003
    Messages:
    38
    Likes Received:
    1
    Fuegorama, what do you mean by "the match" in how it's alterered your perception?

    "series of embarassing OMM lectures" - I sat through several of those.
    "President Beehler" - yes, I have heard him talk. Simply amazing.
    I also had the privilage of sitting through a screening of a new AOA tape a couple of months ago. I think it's intention was to educate people about osteopathic medicine. It reminded me a being a kid when a sex scene came on the TV and your parents were in the room - that embarressing silence waiting for it to go away - but still watching the screen out of curiosity.

    Anyone else seen it? I seem to recall lots of hat changes in a very cheap video production.
     
  5. fuegorama

    fuegorama Senior Member
    5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2004
    Messages:
    596
    Likes Received:
    1
    Lex-
    I was a little freaked out after the match when I started recognizing that programs I had dreamed of training in do not take DOs.

    To the smirking lurkers...yep I should have gotten the beta before going osteo. But, I did believe the hype that restrictions are gone and that I can "go anywhere you want".

    A great Beehler quote here, "if they don't take your training as legitimate then is that really a place you want to go?"

    I see his point, but maybe that picture could have been painted in a little more detail when I bought it a couple of years ago.

    I recognize this sounds whiny and anti-AOA. I reckon it is. I do not believe we are an autonomous profession. We are future physicians/practicing doctors. My patients will hopefully say "he's a great doctor". Outside of the cult, I never hear anyone say, "that is a great osteopath."

    I meant it when I spoke about my training. The education I am currently receiving is worth the enormous sum of cash and days of effort. I am proud of my school. I plan on employing the tools I have been equipped with on a DO campus.

    I'm pi$$ed about the barriers blocking my growth as a future clinician. I feel that LCME accreditation would level the field.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  6. Dr JPH

    Dr JPH Membership Revoked
    Removed 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2000
    Messages:
    5,910
    Likes Received:
    36
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    Out of curiosity...what barriers are you speaking of? What programs did you dream about attending that you now find you cannot attend because of your DO status?

    I agree there are barriers, but I'm just wondering if you are looking at the wall and seeing it a lot higher than I see it.
     
  7. Robz

    Robz La Vie Boheme
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Messages:
    2,080
    Likes Received:
    3
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    I think what he was saying is schools like Vanderbilt not taking DO's for 3rd and 4th year rotations where if there was a LCME body they would have to take them.

    Thats what I got out of it anyway.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  8. fuegorama

    fuegorama Senior Member
    5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2004
    Messages:
    596
    Likes Received:
    1
    Robz has it about right. Vandy, AZ, Hennipen etc. won't take any clinical rotators outside of LCME institutions. It goes w/out saying they won't give a DO a sniff for residency.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  9. Robz

    Robz La Vie Boheme
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Messages:
    2,080
    Likes Received:
    3
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    I think residency is different than 3rd or 4th years though.
    Such as this guy who was in gas at vandy. Then was chief resident. Then was an assistant professor.

    http://www.mc.vanderbilt.edu/root/pdfs/anesthesiology/goldsmith.pdf

    So, you can get a sniff.

    What it does do is it makes it hard to do an away rotation as an audition. These are opportunities for you to meet key people and understand what the work environment is like. I think its a crock they don't let them rotate based on merit but then again I get mad at many leagalistic things in the world, the least of which I think this subject is wrapped up into. Its a bit disappointing but I am not going to get pissed about it. There are too many opportunities that I CAN do in life.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  10. Dr JPH

    Dr JPH Membership Revoked
    Removed 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2000
    Messages:
    5,910
    Likes Received:
    36
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    I'm with ya now.

    As far as some institutions not taking medical students from osteopathic schools...no suprise. Some places, particularly big academic places, are reluctant to take medical students outside of their own system altogether.

    As far as residents, many of those places who dont take DO students will certainly interview (and often accept) DOs into their residency programs. Just like some schools will only take 4th year medical students and turn away 3rd year students, regardless of the rotation.

    I wouldn't worry about there being barriers. If youre good, youre good. And that will show.
     

Share This Page