Let's bash Johns Hopkins UG

[StBernardsRule]

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I've wondered about this as well, very few people post in the "What are my chances thread?" list what university they graduated from and I would have thought where you took your classes would be hugely important to admittance.

I agree with FlatEarth and Hemorrhage in just about everything in this thread. Hard to believe some people really doubt how much smarter and harder working the AVERAGE student is at a top school compared to the AVERAGE student at some random state college. This makes getting grades much harder at a top school if they have the same curve and if admission committees don't take this heavily into account that seems silly.

 

[osprey099]

On a "bell curve," I don't think +1 SD is sufficient for an "A." I think it's closer to +1.4 SD based on z-scores.

Yea this is about right at jhu

 

[osprey099]

Anyone else feel like this place just sucks up your money and hands you a poor (<3.5 gpa) in return for all your hard work?

Classes here are tough but you certainly can still get high scores. Take a look at this: http://web.jhu.edu/prepro/health/admissions_stats.html If you get a 3.3 or above and get enough support from the committee, you have almost a 90% chance at a US allopathic medical school. This is one of the main reasons that I came here for, even though I knew I was not going to have as much fun and that I would be in for a lot of stress.

 

[SunsFun]

Right, so now pretend that those 500 kids at the large uni were pulled out and forced to compete with one another. Assume that less than 20% were able to make As. This means that many of them have less than desirable GPAs does it not? I agree about personal anecdotes and lack of data, but that very lack of data is the only reason why I bother with the anecdotes. I would hope that the account of more than a dozen people would provide rudimentary "proof". It matters because everyone here is trying to achieve something very difficult, something which hinges on numbers unfortunately. This includes MCAT.

To be fair I've noticed that simple preparedness is a big factor. By this I mean that everyone in my general chemistry and calculus classes had taken AP courses in those subjects and passed the tests, so the material was already familiar to them. (you have to get a 5 to test out here)

Yeah but the problem with doing so is that you're not considering too many variables. First of all, at many state schools those 500 kids will more likely than not be filling up hardcore majors like aerospace engineering. With some majors student may need to apply to them first and have pretty high GPA to be accepted. Now, of course they can take easy classes and make their GPA better, but this is not fooling anybody. If your GPA is high due to good grades in easy communication classes, you will not be taken seriously by the adcom and most likely will not do that well on the MCAT.
Bottom line, I would never say average student at average class in state college is experiencing as rigorous curriculum as average kid at MIT, but a kid majoring in electrical engineering may actually get more challenged at state school than someone majoring in political science in the Ivy that is know to curve heavily. There are too many factors aside from prestige of the school that could affect the rigor of your education and that is why the admission is holistic and takes into account many other things besides GPA and the institution you went to.

 

[Lexicon0]

Yeah but the problem with doing so is that you're not considering too many variables. First of all, at many state schools those 500 kids will more likely than not be filling up hardcore majors like aerospace engineering. With some majors student may need to apply to them first and have pretty high GPA to be accepted. Now, of course they can take easy classes and make their GPA better, but this is not fooling anybody. If your GPA is high due to good grades in easy communication classes, you will not be taken seriously by the adcom and most likely will not do that well on the MCAT.
Bottom line, I would never say average student at average class in state college is experiencing as rigorous curriculum as average kid at MIT, but a kid majoring in electrical engineering may actually get more challenged at state school than someone majoring in political science in the Ivy that is know to curve heavily. There are too many factors aside from prestige of the school that could affect the rigor of your education and that is why the admission is holistic and takes into account many other things besides GPA and the institution you went to.

This 👍.

 

[TianYuan]

I didn't bother reading past the first page, but I would like to present a different perspective. I honestly don't agree with the idea that Hopkins isn't worth the money. We honestly get a pretty damn amazing education here from some of the best faculty there is. Sure, kids here are neurotic, but that's partly because we're all damn smart and driven. We have access to the medical campus and research opportunities there. Many of my friends have published papers in very well known labs. Baltimore is...a pretty crappy city, but it does give students plenty of opportunities for service and great stories.

I'm not a member of the ugrad admission group or anything, just a student who graduated from here in 3 years with a neuroscience degree. They were hard years, but I grew so much as a student and person here. I finished with a great GPA and MCAT and I'm about to start medical school (entering class of 2012 at Vanderbilt baby!). OP, please don't hate on your school. If you're here, make the best of it.

 

[Lark12]

C+/B- in most science/premed classes and B in most other classes.

WOW...what are you complaining about?

I went to undergrad at a state school that curved to a C/C+. Even our honors classes were only curved to a B-.

At my school curves are not required, its up to the teacher. And, when a teacher does decide to place a curve, it is curved to a 70% or curved based on the highest score.

 

[Lysinee]

To the OP.

 

[Poisson]

Well for what it's worth, I have seen several people get multiple acceptances at MD schools with around a 3.0 from JHU undergrad. I think med school admissions like undergrads from schools with prestigious med programs. Admissions does I think take into account deflation also; a JHU pre-med is not the same as online U.

 

[KinasePro]

I've wondered about this as well, very few people post in the "What are my chances thread?" list what university they graduated from and I would have thought where you took your classes would be hugely important to admittance.

Currently at a top 20 medical school, and 90% of my class is from top 20 USNWR universities or top 5 LACs. The other 10% are from flagship state schools. So I would argue that undergrad reputation provides a definite advantage in med school admissions.

What's more, the most baller students in my class are the ones from state schools. You could easily make the argument that had they gone to HYPSM (which they probably had the option...), they would likely be at a top 5 medical school right now.

 

[kpcrew]

there might be a slight correlation between a school's ranking and the quality of its students.

 

[deleted393595]

Currently at a top 20 medical school, and 90% of my class is from top 20 USNWR universities or top 5 LACs. The other 10% are from flagship state schools. So I would argue that undergrad reputation provides a definite advantage in med school admissions.

Or maybe it's self-selecting? The top students were good enough to get into top undergrads and were probably good enough to get into Top 5 med schools.

C+/B- in most science/premed classes and B in most other classes.

1) Sounds like a high average.

2) A decently sized fraction of the kids who get into the Ivys and prestigious schools like JHU are more hard-working than they are smart. They might have had an advantage in their HS by working harder than their peers and thought of themselves as being smart. But at a top school they're up against actually "smart" kids and that's why you hear so much complaining the grades they get at those kinds of schools; although to be fair to them, the schools that they attend may have grade neutral or grade deflatory policies. Or they may have massive grade inflation like how Harvard does.

 

[deleted393595]

Saw that I DPed and stuck the contents of this post above ^^^^^^

 

[Dwan]

Or maybe it's self-selecting? The top students were good enough to get into top undergrads and were probably good enough to get into Top 5 med schools.

According to people in this thread, no such thing should exist because there are so many high GPA people from state schools who are equally qualified. I think it's a combination:

1) People with high gpas from top 20's tend to score better on the mcat, thus have better stats
2) they also get a boost from the name of the school (because if we are just focusing on quantity and not percentage, there are actually tons of highly qualified applicants from state schools that do not reflect the highly disproportionate representation we see here)

 

[Knocked Up]

Yeah but the problem with doing so is that you're not considering too many variables. First of all, at many state schools those 500 kids will more likely than not be filling up hardcore majors like aerospace engineering. With some majors student may need to apply to them first and have pretty high GPA to be accepted. Now, of course they can take easy classes and make their GPA better, but this is not fooling anybody. If your GPA is high due to good grades in easy communication classes, you will not be taken seriously by the adcom and most likely will not do that well on the MCAT.
Bottom line, I would never say average student at average class in state college is experiencing as rigorous curriculum as average kid at MIT, but a kid majoring in electrical engineering may actually get more challenged at state school than someone majoring in political science in the Ivy that is know to curve heavily. There are too many factors aside from prestige of the school that could affect the rigor of your education and that is why the admission is holistic and takes into account many other things besides GPA and the institution you went to.

No, you are very wrong my friend. Medical school admissions is NOT holistic. Maybe DO schools are, but respectable MD schools DO NOT have holistic approaches to acceptance.

Three things matter in this direct order:

1. MCAT scores (~70%)
2) Pedigree / Outstanding EC achievements (~15%)
3) GPA (~15%)

3 can be completely nullified by 1 and 2. 1 cannot be nullified under any circumstances.

 

[EvilSponge]

I saw similar things at interviews. At Duke, Harvard, Columbia, I would say 90% of the interviewees were from top 20 schools as well. Makes you wonder....
Nevertheless, I do recognize that it may be that the type of students who go to these undergrads are, in general, the most elite anyway in the medical school application process.

Currently at a top 20 medical school, and 90% of my class is from top 20 USNWR universities or top 5 LACs. The other 10% are from flagship state schools. So I would argue that undergrad reputation provides a definite advantage in med school admissions.

What's more, the most baller students in my class are the ones from state schools. You could easily make the argument that had they gone to HYPSM (which they probably had the option...), they would likely be at a top 5 medical school right now.

 

[zwitterion34]

This is LizzyM's opinion:

The pool of students is generally considered a less academically talented pool because the admission criteria are generally more loose. If the class is graded on a curve, an A at a community college may not equal an A at a highly selective college or university. It may be far easier to be in the top 5% of the class in a community college than the top 5% in a university where the average SAT is 90th percentile.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=6538739&postcount=8

 

[deleted393595]

According to people in this thread, no such thing should exist because there are so many high GPA people from state schools who are equally qualified. I think it's a combination:

1) People with high gpas from top 20's tend to score better on the mcat, thus have better stats
2) they also get a boost from the name of the school (because if we are just focusing on quantity and not percentage, there are actually tons of highly qualified applicants from state schools that do not reflect the highly disproportionate representation we see here)

1) Good argument but the internal logic is flawed. If the quality of students at state and ivy schools is the same, according to you, then they would have equal MCAT scores. However, your point number 1 states otherwise.

2) Some do, but very rarely. That's b/c Ivy League students do a lot more in terms of ECs and other stuff than your typical state schooler.

My argument is that since the concentration of academic superstars is higher at Ivy League schools, you'd see a greater representation of them in top med schools than other students. From kids I know in high school, the ones who did well AND became pre-med ALLwent to Ivies (Princeton, Harvard, Stanford, and Yale). They were offered more money at the state school, but they chose not to go. Imho, I feel that this trend is everywhere across the US and that's I believe that my premise is solid.

 

[Ignatius M.D.]

This is LizzyM's opinion:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=6538739&postcount=8

Thank you, I was looking for this lol. It's the truth, and I'm amazed the argument is still open to some.

Yeah but the problem with doing so is that you're not considering too many variables. First of all, at many state schools those 500 kids will more likely than not be filling up hardcore majors like aerospace engineering. With some majors student may need to apply to them first and have pretty high GPA to be accepted. Now, of course they can take easy classes and make their GPA better, but this is not fooling anybody. If your GPA is high due to good grades in easy communication classes, you will not be taken seriously by the adcom and most likely will not do that well on the MCAT.

Bottom line, I would never say average student at average class in state college is experiencing as rigorous curriculum as average kid at MIT, but a kid majoring in electrical engineering may actually get more challenged at state school than someone majoring in political science in the Ivy that is know to curve heavily. There are too many factors aside from prestige of the school that could affect the rigor of your education and that is why the admission is holistic and takes into account many other things besides GPA and the institution you went to.

-I agree. This means that the concentration of top-level students is more diffuse. Therefore it will be easier for the remaining top students to sit comfortably at the top of the class. I know this from personal experience.

-Alas, I wish this were true. I know many people that padded their GPA the entire time while I took 2 pre-reqs + 1 neuro per semester, as well as gen. eds (I wasn't pre-med from the start, as shocking as that is 😉). Admissions folks are fooled, or else they simply don't care as long as the MCAT backs it up. If I could go back, I'd pad my GPA up 0.2 or so by "playing the game".

-I wholeheartedly agree. There are plenty of majors at top schools that are easy to get a 3.5+ GPA, while more than a few at your average school would be quite challenging. For the hard sciences though, I would say this doesn't hold the majority of the time (as would LizzyM, whose opinion is much more relevant than ours). I would also like to clarify that it is definitely not a state vs. private school thing to me. I'd expect places like Berkeley, UCLA, UF, U Mich, etc. to be quite competitive for pre-med students.

 

[nets445]

recently found this article: http://www.jhunewsletter.com/2.8128...roat-culture-1.1130197?pagereq=2#.T6KWxL-nDq4

kid has seizure during orgo exam..sums up how neurotic kids are here..

 

[tantacles]

Oh, are we still doing this thread?

 

[nets445]

Oh, are we still doing this thread?

cause i got back my 3rd midterm and it sucked and now im pissed at this school again

 

[tantacles]

cause i got back my 3rd midterm and it sucked and now im pissed at this school again

Hit the books. Finals are coming up.

 

[nets445]

Just wanted to give a quick update:

I GOT INTO UNC MED!! MY IN STATE SCHOOL!

I'm grateful for what JHU has done for me. I ended up applying with a 3.55/34. I can't believe just 2 years ago, I was so depressed and frustrated with the college that I now love and am so thankful for.

 

[Oso]

Just wanted to give a quick update:

I GOT INTO UNC MED!! MY IN STATE SCHOOL!

I'm grateful for what JHU has done for me. I ended up applying with a 3.55/34. I can't believe just 2 years ago, I was so depressed and frustrated with the college that I now love and am so thankful for.

LOL. Congrats and good luck!

 

[Syndicate]

Just wanted to give a quick update:

I GOT INTO UNC MED!! MY IN STATE SCHOOL!

I'm grateful for what JHU has done for me. I ended up applying with a 3.55/34. I can't believe just 2 years ago, I was so depressed and frustrated with the college that I now love and am so thankful for.

Wow I just read through some of this thread. Haha well done OP. Glad it all worked out for you in the end!

 

[nets445]

Thanks everyone!

I still can't believe I did it. Even going in to the application cycle last May, I didn't think my 3.55 was going to get me anywhere. But then I had 10+ interview invites and I'm still waiting for decisions from some top20 medical schools (most likely not gonna go b/c UNC tuition is great deal). I have nothing but JHU to thank. I seriously contemplated transferring my sophomore year but I'm so glad I didn't and stuck it out.

 

[Ace-Co-A]

Just wanted to give a quick update:

I GOT INTO UNC MED!! MY IN STATE SCHOOL!

I'm grateful for what JHU has done for me. I ended up applying with a 3.55/34. I can't believe just 2 years ago, I was so depressed and frustrated with the college that I now love and am so thankful for.

UNC is awesome. Congrats man. You guys at Hopkins do moan a bit too much for my taste, though... 😉

 

[Euxox]

Thanks everyone!

I still can't believe I did it. Even going in to the application cycle last May, I didn't think my 3.55 was going to get me anywhere. But then I had 10+ interview invites and I'm still waiting for decisions from some top20 medical schools (most likely not gonna go b/c UNC tuition is great deal). I have nothing but JHU to thank. I seriously contemplated transferring my sophomore year but I'm so glad I didn't and stuck it out.

Glad to hear that things worked out for you. 😀

But I wouldn't be surprised if this thread has discouraged a handful of people from applying to JHU in the past couple of years. If you want to thank JHU, it might be a good idea to go back to your original post and add a two-year update. 😉

 

[nets445]

Glad to hear that things worked out for you. 😀

But I wouldn't be surprised if this thread has discouraged a handful of people from applying to JHU in the past couple of years. If you want to thank JHU, it might be a good idea to go back to your original post and add a two-year update. 😉

Thanks! I just copy/pasted my update to the first post.

I hope future applicants who are experiencing what I felt during my lows can draw inspiration from this thread and trudge on through. There is always light at the end of the tunnel!!

 

[Narmerguy]

Thanks everyone!

I still can't believe I did it. Even going in to the application cycle last May, I didn't think my 3.55 was going to get me anywhere. But then I had 10+ interview invites and I'm still waiting for decisions from some top20 medical schools (most likely not gonna go b/c UNC tuition is great deal). I have nothing but JHU to thank. I seriously contemplated transferring my sophomore year but I'm so glad I didn't and stuck it out.

Give yourself some credit as well 👍 Congratulations!

 

[911 Turbo]

awww was hoping this would turn into a 10+ year old JHU hate thread

 

[chillaxbro]

Johns Hopkins is the Brown medical school of undergrads

 

[Syndicate]

Johns Hopkins is the Brown medical school of undergrads

Lol what does that mean?

 

[Ace-Co-A]

Lol what does that mean?

It sounds like @chillaxbro is saying that Brown makes it more challenging on well qualified medical students during their medical school years than these students think is fair as compared to the experiences of medical students at other institutions.

Basically, I (and I take it that @Syndicate well second this) don't follow you, @chillaxbro ...

 

[Ace-Co-A]

awww was hoping this would turn into a 10+ year old JHU hate thread

Something to shoot for? It is in the DC-Baltimore area, after all...

 

[Syndicate]

It sounds like @chillaxbro is saying that Brown makes it more challenging on well qualified medical students during their medical school years than these students think is fair as compared to the experiences of medical students at other institutions.

Basically, I (and I take it that @Syndicate well second this) don't follow you, @chillaxbro ...

Oh I just understood this. It made my brain hurt though haha