Let's make a Pact

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
That's true. Even if Pritzker isn't one of the best schools here (and I have no idea, I'm just saying), you are definitely viewed much more favorably than if you come from any foreign school, no matter how well respected.
 
Yeah. I have to pay the RCSI deposit though because I dont hear back from Pritzker or Duke until mid-late May, and the deposit is due on April 27.

So strange. As far as the US schools are concerned, I was straight up denied at the less competitive schools and waitlisted at more competitive ones! I guess no matter where you apply there is no rhyme or reason.

Good luck to all!
 
gmacpac said:
I disagree. I'll take pritzker over RCSI any day.

Your chances of landing a phenomenal residency are just much better with Pritzker than with ANY foreign school.
Click to expand...


Not necessarily true. RCSI has an excellent reputation and your class mates at U Chicago may be kniving robots.
 
What will stand out are your board scores. I am not familiar with any bias in the medical profession toward IMG's, especially those that are fluent in english. Research the residency programs at your school of choice......very diverse individuals each year; Baylor has Russian grads, a few recent Carib. grads in their surgery program and so on. Nobody that I know of is narrow-minded enough to place you on a lower tier simply because you are a foreign medical grad. Most of whom I know look favorably upon those with diverse experiences; where you graduate from medical school hardly matters (to those I know in the medical profession). I will attest to the fact that Caribbean grads are not looked upon quite so favorably in terms of competitive residency programs. I believe it is a small percentage of those in the Carib. group that get into Radiology, neurosurgery and so on.
 
Do not even consider RCSI if you get into Pritzker (or Duke). Reputations between the two are not comparable. If you want a chance at a competitive residency, you are better off going to Chicago. The education/research opportunities and definitely the facilities are beyond what you would experience at RCSI, Trinity, UCD, and UCC. Dublin (and its hospitals) is not what you think. Visiting is fine. Living here, you'll see it's NOT a cosmopolitan, outrageously expensive, with terrible terrible public transportation. I would pick Chicago to live in over Dublin. Still, I'm enjoying my time and I'm learning a lot but it's mostly because of the great people I met here.
 
docolive said:
What will stand out are your board scores. I am not familiar with any bias in the medical profession toward IMG's, especially those that are fluent in english. Research the residency programs at your school of choice......very diverse individuals each year; Baylor has Russian grads, a few recent Carib. grads in their surgery program and so on. Nobody that I know of is narrow-minded enough to place you on a lower tier simply because you are a foreign medical grad. Most of whom I know look favorably upon those with diverse experiences; where you graduate from medical school hardly matters (to those I know in the medical profession). I will attest to the fact that Caribbean grads are not looked upon quite so favorably in terms of competitive residency programs. I believe it is a small percentage of those in the Carib. group that get into Radiology, neurosurgery and so on.
Click to expand...

You may not be familiar with the bias, but it is there and it is significant.
 
I agree. I'm waiting it out, but I'm still securing my seat at RCSI with the deposit. I have no doubt that if I go to RCSI I will work my butt off, get great scores, take electives in the US at every possible opportunity, and get a decent residency. I know it's not easy, but I know I'm up to it. But at the end of the day, if Duke or Pritzker pull through, I'll be staying in the US. Duke is my alma mater and they tend to like their own off the waitlist. So we'll see. Either way, I will do whatever is necessary for me to succeed.
 
Good on you. Thats the right attitude to have. And oh, congratulations on your acceptance. Quick question, why is it so vital to have US electives?
 
Its not absolutely necessary to have US Electives to obtain a US residency, but it does help. This way you can get recommendations from faculty members regarding your command of english, your adaptation to the American system, etc. It would basically tell the programs you are applying to that you are competent in the United States. Sorry for not being so eloquent, but that's more or less what its about.

I'm a US citizen, did my undergraduate here, and speak English fluently, so when it comes to US Residencies that might be some reflection of me, but the major reflections will come from the recommendations.

You should look at a book called the Successful IMG, I posted about it on here earlier. Its written by a graduate of RCSI who is currently a resident in ophthalmology. The book outlines how you should go about things so that you are best prepared for a US residency application.
 
co06, did you get accpeted to the 6 year or the 4 year program at RCSI, just joined so sorry if you already said this... Thanks.
I attened the interviews in Newyork and am holding my breath untill i hear back from them...
 
He got in the 4 year grad program😉
 
ok thanks, i applied for the 6 year program. Hopefully should be anyday now.... When my interview finished up the representitive told me id hear back in about 2 weeks or so... will we be given an email notification or will the acceptance be mailed thorugh ABP office?
 
Thanks Ziad! I did apply to the four year program. I also interviewed in NYC.

They sent me the FedEx on Friday and I got it today. If you signed up for the courier and you are admitted they will FedEx it to you. No email notification. Another person on here was accepted to the 4 year program as well.
 
ok cool, congrats by the way...
and its good to know im not the only 6 year applicant holding his breath...
 
edit: removed, don't want to argue at this hour 😛
 
Nope, you are not the only 6 year applicant awaiting some news! Lets keep our fingers crossed!!
And Mcduck, will you please be quiet about me supposidly "lying" or my friend being " full of ****". I saw the letter and the package. He got accepted to UCD for the 5 year program - wow, do you always get on everyones nerves like this or is it just because your stressed awaiting a response!???
 
Rang up Trinity today. They said that they haven't made a decision on my application yet, and I should hear around next week as the admissions team is off this week. However, the lady did say that "if its anything to go by, my name wasn't on the rejections list that was issued a bit ago". So i'm assuming that it means I'll get an acceptance, waiting list status or a rejection later on! Don't want to get my hopes up!
 
1. There is a huge bias towards IMGs in this country (and others, for that matter). Whether you are aware of it or not isn't really an issue. The fact is, if you're an IMG--whether you are from a respected institution or a crappy Caribbean school--you will be looked at as a second choice to US grads. If you have the option to stay here, you should definitely take it.

2. US experience is vital to have if you intend on getting a residency in the US. Look at the family medicine forum for a prime example. There is a guy on there (a US citizen) that did not match into Family Medicine this year (which is a fairly easy specialty in which to match somewhere), despite a good number of interviews for that specialty. What was the reason the PDs gave him for not matching? A lack of US experience.

3. And patrece, get over yourself. If your friend really got accepted, then I'm happy for him. It just seems a bit far fetched considering no one else has heard anything, ABP said they haven't even notified them of any decisions, and UCD themselves said they haven't sent out any notifications. Also, you should learn a few things. For one, your nerves =/= everyone's nerves. Secondly, I'm not waiting for anything; I've chosen to stay in the US.
 
Mr. McDuck said:
...
3. And patrece, get over yourself. If your friend really got accepted, then I'm happy for him. It just seems a bit far fetched considering no one else has heard anything, ABP said they haven't even notified them of any decisions, and UCD themselves said they haven't sent out any notifications. Also, you should learn a few things. For one, your nerves =/= everyone's nerves. Secondly, I'm not waiting for anything; I've chosen to stay in the US.
Click to expand...
Someone who went through this process couple of years back told me that UCD sends out early acceptances to a few people. That was the case with him. So maybe UCD and ABP might tell us that no decisions have been made, but they might send out 1 or 2 decisions if they found their ideal candidate which they really want. This would be my educated guess because there is no reason to BS about false acceptances on SDN. 🙂
 
So, as a back-up plan, do you believe that the DO route makes you more competitive than an IMG? It seems to require a bit more work in that you would be competing against allo. students that had an allo. curriculum in preparation for the USMLE's. There seem to be pro's and con's to just about everything.....with the exception of getting into a US allo.school the very first time that you apply. :scared:
 
docolive said:
So, as a back-up plan, do you believe that the DO route makes you more competitive than an IMG? It seems to require a bit more work in that you would be competing against allo. students that had an allo. curriculum in preparation for the USMLE's. There seem to be pro's and con's to just about everything.....with the exception of getting into a US allo.school the very first time that you apply. :scared:
Click to expand...

I have gotten into 2 US allo acceptances so far. Is it really that much of an advantage over going international, even Ireland??? what do you think??
 
Yes, going US allopathic is by far the best option (in my opinion off course).
No matter which type of foreign school you attend, you simply will not have the edge over residency placement.
Keep in mind this local vs. IMG game doesn't stop just at residency placement, it will always be there with you. Especially when you're looking for fellowships etc.

Ireland is great compared to other foreign schools, but one can simply not compare Irish education with US education.

Lastly, someone posted about IMG's acquiring residencies at top notch programs. In my personal experience, most of the IMG's from the carribean that do acquire competetive residencies usually have a family member who is a physician or affiliate of the program. I am by no means suggesting that ALL IMG's acquire competetive residencies through personal connections, all I am saying is that most of the people I know who matched into Urology/ortho/ ophto happen to have a parent who also was a Uro/ortho/ophtho physician.

If you decide to go IMG route, keep in mind that it is going to be alot more difficult for you to match into a decent residency. That's all.
 
Yeah theres no doubt that currently its a more difficult route to try and get residency placement if your an IMG. However things could change up a bit in the future, im from canada and this was the first year that IMG were allowed to be selected in the first round of the CaRMS, previously they had to wat untill the second when most decent residency were already taken. Also there is a specialist shortage currently in canada, and its only a matter of time untill they have to open up their residency programs to more applicants. In fact i read an aritcale about several schools in canada activly recruiting irish graduates. But alot of this is speculation so who knows, Im looking at ireland as more of an experience, if i get accepted and can get my degree asap im not too worried about taking some extra time to get a decent residency.
 
senioritaelena said:
I have gotten into 2 US allo acceptances so far. Is it really that much of an advantage over going international, even Ireland??? what do you think??
Click to expand...

It really depends on what your motive was for applying to Irish schools in the first place. If you want to go to medical school, and get it done with, and pretty much continue the same lifestyle, then choice A, US allo.
Going to Ireland is about the experience in addition to the pursuit of a medical degree. It would be nice to have more concrete numbers on how many have matched (the entire North American student body) at UCD, UCC and Trinity. The schools do not offer that kind of information. I disagree with those who claim that the American system is better because there is no proof of that...every IMG (ridiculous label) I have met is equally competent and in many regards, better than his or her NA counterpart.
My father was an IMG. He got into a top residency...however, this was in the 80's. I know that some will disagree (even some family friends of mine) but I can not imagine that a British or Irish school would be considered equivalent (in residency grabs) to someone who attended med. school in Romania, India and Pakistan. PLeeeez.
 
I too recently received an acceptance from RCSI 4-year program. I am pretty excited, but have many of the same concerns listed above. The people from the ABP have told me that 100% of the people who enter the match, do match. Further, it had a pretty impressive list of residencies (~60% at schools ranked in the top 30 for Research-undergrad med).
 
Depends what you want to do after you graduate.

If you want to get into primary care/ general surgery/ anesthesia....these residencies usually have plenty of spots to spare between local and foreign grads. But if you want to get into more competetive programs, then it becomes a little difficult for IMG's.

Also, I never suggested that Iris/British were equivalent to India/Pakistan. Undoubtedly, Western european grads are looked more favorably than other third world grads. However, strictly speaking IMG vs. Local, local leads the way in acquiring better residencies.


I dont know about other people, but I want to go to medical school to become a physician. I dont know what people mean when they say "experience".

What "experience" does Ireland offer that the schools or environment in USA does not?

Let's face it, we are all applying to Ireland mainly because it is a second choice, and not because we all so love Ireland very much and have always
wanted to live there.🙂

Also, in reference to competency level. It all depends on the individual. Learning comes from within oneself. However, because foreign schools have the tendency to accept students from USA who were not necessarily hard working to begin with, their grads tend to be a little less competent than most other Physicians. It is my opinion, I may be wrong. But I am basing my opinion based on working with Physicians of garden variety for the past couple of years.
 
well I guess if you have never traveled around the world, then you may be interested in attending medical school abroad strictly because of not being able to get into an allo. school in the US. However, the Irish schools are not granting places to poor students unless everyone on here is lying about their stats. You need to travel to Ireland, and see what your life in the United States might be missing. It is about an experience, and if you do not believe it to be so, then maybe Ireland is not the best place to spend the next five years of your life.
 
I think gmac and docolive both have strong points.

Here's my deal,

At first I was apprehensive about UK, but after visiting the schools for my interviews, I was sold.

Birmingham was always my top choice, and after I got accepted there, I even declined to go to my Wayne State Interview in Detroit.

Why?

1. Univ. of Birmingham is known around the world, its a world-class school.
2. Wayne is frigen expensive, (85K/year for intl students), so its more $ (like 50K more overall) to go to Wayne than Birm for me.
3. Do I really want to live in Detroit for 85K/year (No offense to any Detroiters...)
4. How cool is it that by the time I'm 30, I'll hopefully have lived in 3 different countries (Canada, England and U.S)
5. My dream is to do Gen Surgery, so I know that with hardwork, I can achieve that, even as an IMG.

And yeah, I get to live in Europe for 5 years, while still being able to spend summers in North America. Not bad at all I think, and it will be an experience of a lifetime, visitng places like Dublin and Paris when I'm not studying for exams...

but gmac is right too, if you want to do Rad Onc, or Derm, or plastics surgery, I'd take any U.S school over any IMG school, if its Oxford.

But I dunno, I figure that as an IMG, I'll be taking the extra step and studying extra hard for USMLEs/U.S Elective/working in research labs every summer, that I feel 10-15years down the road, it will make me a better doctor than 'most' others.

Just my 2 cents.
 
Blitz2006 said:
I think gmac and docolive both have strong points.

Here's my deal,

At first I was apprehensive about UK, but after visiting the schools for my interviews, I was sold.

Birmingham was always my top choice, and after I got accepted there, I even declined to go to my Wayne State Interview in Detroit.

Why?

1. Univ. of Birmingham is known around the world, its a world-class school.
2. Wayne is frigen expensive, (85K/year for intl students), so its more $ (like 50K more overall) to go to Wayne than Birm for me.
3. Do I really want to live in Detroit for 85K/year (No offense to any Detroiters...)
4. How cool is it that by the time I'm 30, I'll hopefully have lived in 3 different countries (Canada, England and U.S)
5. My dream is to do Gen Surgery, so I know that with hardwork, I can achieve that, even as an IMG.

And yeah, I get to live in Europe for 5 years, while still being able to spend summers in North America. Not bad at all I think, and it will be an experience of a lifetime, visitng places like Dublin and Paris when I'm not studying for exams...

but gmac is right too, if you want to do Rad Onc, or Derm, or plastics surgery, I'd take any U.S school over any IMG school, if its Oxford.

But I dunno, I figure that as an IMG, I'll be taking the extra step and studying extra hard for USMLEs/U.S Elective/working in research labs every summer, that I feel 10-15years down the road, it will make me a better doctor than 'most' others.

Just my 2 cents.
Click to expand...
Well written. Come 2017, there are going to be far too many specialists in this country. However, the demand for oncologists is steadily on the rise. My desire is to do a residency in internal medicine and follow with a fellowship in hem/onc. Congrats on your acceptance.
:hardy:
 
Out of curiosity, what residencies are hardest to obtain in general?
 
zeyad said:
Out of curiosity, what residencies are hardest to obtain in general?
Click to expand...


Radiology, Derm, Any super specialized surgery (Cardio-thoracic, plastics, neuro, ortho), Urology, ENT (Oto)

Those are the ones I can think of , top of my head.
 
Blitz2006 said:
Radiology, Derm, Any super specialized surgery (Cardio-thoracic, plastics, neuro, ortho), Urology, ENT (Oto)

Those are the ones I can think of , top of my head.
Click to expand...


Exactly. So I believe that the fear of IMG's not getting their first choice program pertains predominantly to highly specialized and/or highly competitive residency programs. Trust me, not too many people are dreaming of enslaving themselves to general surgery.
j/k, but seriously, it is the "lifestyle" professions that are very difficult to get into...IMG or not.

Most popular residencies for my state school this past year (this is surprising to me): OB/GYN, Anesthesiology and Internal Medicine
 
And by "lifestyle" residencies, you mean specialized surgery etc.. Sorry for all the questions, you've been a great help!
 
Oh Yeah I Got In! :d :d
 
AWESOME! congrats, where too though?
 
Congrats to everyone who has received acceptances thus far!! Hooray!

I am still awaiting word. Has anyone heard anything new about a second round of RCSI interviews? Just curious. 🙂

Also, how does Emergency Medicine stack up in terms of residency competition? I have heard a mix of things--that it is not terribly popular because of the burnout rate and that it is very popular because of its general appeal. Any thoughts?
 
Trauma Junkie said:
Congrats to everyone who has received acceptances thus far!! Hooray!

I am still awaiting word. Has anyone heard anything new about a second round of RCSI interviews? Just curious. 🙂

Also, how does Emergency Medicine stack up in terms of residency competition? I have heard a mix of things--that it is not terribly popular because of the burnout rate and that it is very popular because of its general appeal. Any thoughts?
Click to expand...


Emerg, Psych, Family Meds, Internal Meds, Peds

Those are the easiest residencies..generally.
 
Blitz2006 said:
Emerg, Psych, Family Meds, Internal Meds, Peds

Those are the easiest residencies..generally.
Click to expand...

I concur 😀
btw, congrats to magical trevor on the acceptance.
 
zeyad said:
And by "lifestyle" residencies, you mean specialized surgery etc.. Sorry for all the questions, you've been a great help!
Click to expand...

yeah like diagnostic radiology and interventional radiology, and it goes on---fellowships in body imaging, special procedures, etc.


Oh yeah, and from an internal medicine residency, there are a variety of subspecialties/fellowships that could allow you to hone in on your primary interest (cardiology, oncology, GI, pulmonology, etc etc)
 
So here's my question,

If I get into Internal Meds for residency, then decide to do a fellowship in cardiology...does that mean I become a 'cardiologist'?
 
Congrats to everyone!! Sounds like everyone is starting to hear from schools. I also got a package from RCSI for the 6 year program today. Good luck to you all!!
 
and thanks for sticking up for me there fibonacci! I agree... there is no reason to lie on SDN. Go canucks go!
 
Hmm, thanks co06.

So wait, if its so easy to get IM residency....then its easy to become a cardiologist/oncologist.....?

Like, once I get that IM residency, the chances of me getting cardiology fellowship are equal to non-IMGs??
 
I got accepted to RCSI 6-year program. Thanks Docolive
 
Blitz2006 said:
Hmm, thanks co06.

So wait, if its so easy to get IM residency....then its easy to become a cardiologist/oncologist.....?

Like, once I get that IM residency, the chances of me getting cardiology fellowship are equal to non-IMGs??
Click to expand...

It really depends. I would contact someone who has gone this route, but yes, generally after successfully completing your IM residency, you are fair game for cardiology and the others. Afterall, at this point, what matters is where you complete your residency and not quite so much where you went to medical school. Medical school is medical school. It's your training that will pay off--hence, a good residency program is important.
 
Congrats Magic Trevor, Mind if i ask where your from.. i ahvent heard back from them about my interview yet and i was just curious if you live closer to cali then i do, Thanks alot!
P.S. Did it arrive in the regular mail or was it delived directly to your house by a courier?
 
Your chances get better in acquiring fellowship during residency if you excel as a resident, also at that point getting to know the specific subspecialty's faculty also helps, but do keep in mind that Cardiology and GI are probably one of the most difficult fellowships to get into. So nothing is really guaranteed.
 
docolive said:
Well written. Come 2017, there are going to be far too many specialists in this country. However, the demand for oncologists is steadily on the rise. My desire is to do a residency in internal medicine and follow with a fellowship in hem/onc. Congrats on your acceptance.
:hardy:
Click to expand...

Can you substantiate this ? (the too many specialist part)
From what I have heard there is a planned shortage of all specialists
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

F
UCC Final Med Student, Q&A :)
Replies
1
Views
3K
Evgpiu
E
S
Need advice! Looking into applying in Ireland next year from the US
as a non traditional applicant
Replies
0
Views
3K
siorcacaillte
S
Y
Hello everyone, I’m a high school student who has accepted an offer for the 5-year medical program at UCD in Ireland. I understand the challenges of
Replies
0
Views
3K
yasi…a
Y
W
Typical working day for a surgical trainee (registrar) in Ireland
Replies
0
Views
3K
Wssm10
W
med97
Best route to PhD for a medical doctor in the UK
Replies
0
Views
3K
med97
med97
Top Bottom