Letter of Interest/Intent Pre-interview

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ginzoo

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So I know sending LOI pre-interview invite comes off as desperate/uninformed. However, I am in a master's program which has a link to my state medical school. In the program, I took an elective taught by the dean of admissions (who attended some classes, did a mock interview, and graded assignments). So I'm not totally uninformed about the school and this is definitely my top choice. Is sending a LOI to the dean before receiving an invite advisable in this case?

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Also note I am in state applicant, and have connections to the school
 
So I know sending LOI pre-interview invite comes off as desperate/uninformed. However, I am in a master's program which has a link to my state medical school. In the program, I took an elective taught by the dean of admissions (who attended some classes, did a mock interview, and graded assignments). So I'm not totally uninformed about the school and this is definitely my top choice. Is sending a LOI to the dean before receiving an invite advisable in this case?
And how would you interpret a nonbinding contract with a desperate applicant?

They know you're interested because you sent them an app.
 
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They know you're interested because you sent them an app.
I'm more than just "interested", this is my top choice and would go here over anywhere else if accepted. Typically LOI *after* interviews are encouraged, but I'm wondering about LOI *prior* to invites. Would it help give my application a better consideration?
 
I think I would send after the interview. It seems a little obnoxious to send it before you interview. Some people reading it might not know you, your history with the school, etc. You will have an opportunity to inform people of your intentions at the interview. Others might not agree with me. Anyway, best wishes!
 
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Do you have an interview scheduled? If so, just make your feelings known at the interview and maybe follow up with a letter if they tell you they really like them. If you don’t have an interview, I don’t think a letter at this point would help. But maybe I’m wrong. Are they still interviewing?
 
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So I know sending LOI pre-interview invite comes off as desperate/uninformed. However, I am in a master's program which has a link to my state medical school. In the program, I took an elective taught by the dean of admissions (who attended some classes, did a mock interview, and graded assignments). So I'm not totally uninformed about the school and this is definitely my top choice. Is sending a LOI to the dean before receiving an invite advisable in this case?
I'm really not sure what you're asking. You're in a program with a link to the school, you took a class taught by the dean of admissions, and, apparently, you haven't received an II by the end of January. What exactly do you expect to accomplish with a LOI at this point? I mean, knock yourself out, a LOI is certainly not going to hurt you at this point, but just don't expect much.

Enrolling in the SMP, applying to the school, taking classes, having mock interviews and having assignments graded by the dean of admission certainly got you in front of the right people. For whatever reason, you haven't received an II to date. I honestly don't mean to burst your bubble, but do you really think the only thing standing between you and an A is a late January LOI, because they just aren't sure about your level of interest???

By the way, your stats don't look bad, especially coming from a SMP with a link to the school, so there must be something else going on with your application.
 
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Do you have an interview scheduled? If so, just make your feelings known at the interview and maybe follow up with a letter if they tell you they really like them. If you don’t have an interview, I don’t think a letter at this point would help. But maybe I’m wrong. Are they still interviewing?
Not yet, I just know that there's one more round of invites they're going to give...
 
I'm really not sure what you're asking. You're in a program with a link to the school, you took a class taught by the dean of admissions, and, apparently, you haven't received an II by the end of January. What exactly do you expect to accomplish with a LOI at this point? I mean, knock yourself out, a LOI is certainly not going to hurt you at this point, but just don't expect much.

Enrolling in the SMP, applying to the school, taking classes, having mock interviews and having assignments graded by the dean of admission certainly got you in front of the right people. For whatever reason, you haven't received an II to date. I honestly don't mean to burst your bubble, but do you really think the only thing standing between you and an A is a late January LOI, because they just aren't sure about your level of interest???
I mean like a letter of intent, not interest. I've just sent my final grades for this semester to them last week, so hopefully I hear something back. But I was planning on waiting for a bit, then sending a LOI discussing that this is my top choice. I was hoping that based on my success in the program (and since schools want high-yield students), it could possibly help. I get what you're saying however.
 
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I'm more than just "interested", this is my top choice and would go here over anywhere else if accepted. Typically LOI *after* interviews are encouraged, but I'm wondering about LOI *prior* to invites. Would it help give my application a better consideration?
This is great, but what @Goro is trying to tell you is that adcoms get these from everyone who is feeling anxious and desperate, they are not binding in case a better opportunity comes along for you, and they have learned over the years to tune these out, so your level of sincerity at this point in time is irrelevant to the adcoms.
 
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I'm more than just "interested", this is my top choice and would go here over anywhere else if accepted. Typically LOI *after* interviews are encouraged, but I'm wondering about LOI *prior* to invites. Would it help give my application a better consideration?
You'll get as much traction as the guy who says to the hot chick "I'll still respect you in the morning!"

So no, love letters don't work before the interview.
 
This is great, but what @Goro is trying to tell you is that adcoms get these from everyone who is feeling anxious and desperate, they are not binding in case a better opportunity comes along for you, and they have learned over the years to tune these out, so your level of sincerity at this point in time is irrelevant to the adcoms.
Yes, thank you for clarifying and responding in a much more respectful way than the other dude.
 
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I mean like a letter of intent, not interest. I've just sent my final grades for this semester to them last week, so hopefully I hear something back. But I was planning on waiting for a bit, then sending a LOI discussing that this is my top choice. I was hoping that based on my success in the program (and since schools want high-yield students), it could possibly help. I get what you're saying however.
No, I totally get you, and really feel for you, but what everyone is saying is that it looks like their lack of interest in you does not appear to be related to them doubting your level of interest in them, so telling them you are really, really, really, really interested in them is only going to make you look desperate without producing your desired result.

They already know about your success in the program, and the admissions dean himself has had some exposure to you, and yet something is standing between you and an II. It just doesn't look like it's their doubt about your level of interest. However, as I said before, it will clearly make you feel better, and it certainly won't hurt, so go ahead and send the letter as soon as you like. You certainly don't need anyone's permission on SDN! I just wouldn't get my hopes up. Good luck!!!!!
 
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Yes, thank you for clarifying and responding in a much more respectful way than the other dude.
He's been here way longer than me, so he's more jaded, that's all!! But, he really knows what he's talking about.

Common wisdom is that the letters of intent you are talking about really only have an impact, if at all, later in the cycle if you are on a WL (thereby establishing that you have already passed a huge screen and they would happily invite you into the class if a spot opens up -- and even this assumes it's a real WL and not where they just dumped everyone they interviewed and didn't accept), and they want to gauge actual interest to try to manage yield and fill seats rather than having to call a whole bunch of people on the WL who have already made another choice.
 
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Common wisdom is that the letters of intent you are talking about really only have an impact, if at all, later in the cycle if you are on a WL (thereby establishing that you have already passed a huge screen and they would happily invite you into the class if a spot opens up -- and even this assumes it's a real WL and not where they just dumped everyone they interviewed and didn't accept), and they want to gauge actual interest to try to manage yield and fill seats rather than having to call a whole bunch of people on the WL who have already made another choice.
Makes more sense, thanks! It just sucks for me right now because I've been passing by this school all undergrad, and worked my hardest in this program, it really is my top choice. But thank you anyways
 
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Considering it is mid-end january, and you know this school only has 1 more round of interviews left... why not? Sure it may not impact anything, but if you actually compose a thoughtful and well-written, and extremely school-specific LOI with all the reasons that this program is your top choice, how this program fits with your current and future interests, and your performance in the linkage masters program then what is there to lose?
 
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Considering it is mid-end january, and you know this school only has 1 more round of interviews left... why not? Sure it may not impact anything, but if you actually compose a thoughtful and well-written, and extremely school-specific LOI with all the reasons that this program is your top choice, how this program fits with your current and future interests, and your performance in the linkage masters program then what is there to lose?
That's what I was thinking, I may do that because I have honestly nothing to lose and what if an interview spot does open up? I might wait one more week and then check in with admissions before sending it to the dean. I understand both pros and cons, though. Thank you for the suggestions
 
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You'll get as much traction as the guy who says to the hot chick "I'll still respect you in the morning!"

So no, love letters don't work before the interview.
Eh.

One MD school I interviewed at welcomed them. They even put priority on those who have more recently neurotically checked their portals.

Also, why not? At this point in the cycle, it couldn’t hurt.

OP- worst case scenario, the school ignore it or it does nothing. Go ahead.
 
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You'll get as much traction as the guy who says to the hot chick "I'll still respect you in the morning!"

So no, love letters don't work before the interview.
Can we not be misogynistic? I’m sure there are other ways to compare this to real life without coming off as sexist
 
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The cycle is almost over. You’ve got nothing to lose. It’s Hail Mary time baby.
 
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Yes, thank you for clarifying and responding in a much more respectful way than the other dude.

FYI. “The other dude” is an ADCOM and faculty member at his school.
Looking at your signature info you’ve had no MD interviews and 2 interview invites to DO schools but you didn’t attend any of them? Is that correct? Why didn’t you attend the interviews or are they coming up?
Why did you apply this cycle and not wait until you finished the program(was it a SMP?)
 
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FYI. “The other dude” is an ADCOM and faculty member at his school.
Looking at your signature info you’ve had no MD interviews and 2 interview invites to DO schools but you didn’t attend any of them? Is that correct? Why didn’t you attend the interviews or are they coming up?
Why did you apply this cycle and not wait until you finished the program(was it a SMP?)
I don’t think being an ADCOM/Faculty excuses anyone from being respectful ...
 
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A joke is a joke. You'll hear much worse in the hospitals, especially ER as people use it as a coping mechanism in dire situations. If they haven't interviewed you yet, just send it, what do you have to lose?
 
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Eh.

One MD school I interviewed at welcomed them. They even put priority on those who have more recently neurotically checked their portals.

Also, why not? At this point in the cycle, it couldn’t hurt.

OP- worst case scenario, the school ignore it or it does nothing. Go ahead.
It only helps at those needy schools who welcome these. It can hurt at those who get annoyed by desperation and, well, outright lies.
 
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It only helps at those needy schools who welcome these. It can hurt at those who get annoyed by desperation and, well, outright lies.

You'll get as much traction as the guy who says to the hot chick "I'll still respect you in the morning!"

So no, love letters don't work before the interview.
I'm not sure I would call these schools needy; But to each their own.

And it seems OP really is genuine about his LOI, so I'm not sure why you're making the assumption that his/her LOI would be an outright lie. Regardless, you should be clear that you're speaking for your school, and your school only, then when you make this assertion.
 
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I'm not sure I would call these schools needy; But to each their own.

And it seems OP really is genuine about his LOI, so I'm not sure why you're making the assumption that his/her LOI would be an outright lie. Regardless, you should be clear that you're speaking for your school, and your school only, then when you make this assertion.
Other SDN Adcom members feel the same way. I simply their collective wisdom.


“How are LOIs worthless? Do they just hold no weight whatsoever/not get read usually?”

Here’s one Adcom member’s thoughts on the matter:

“We only invite amazing students to interview. It is quite unlikely that further good deeds or achievements will have an effect since only the students who have already wowed us are interviewed.”

And from the wise Med Ed: [What med schools…] accept and desire are two different things. My institution, for instance, will accept practically anything a given applicant wants to forward along, but only rarely do we consider it a worthwhile addition to the package.

And yes, some of us have gotten a little jaded about LOI's. I could fill a barrel with all the post-interview correspondence I have received that has not translated into a single matriculant. This has all gotten mighty complicated and burdensome for what is essentially a zero sum game.

It's generally not burdensome for an applicant to upload something to the portal, and once in a great while it does tip us off with some useful info. I can think of one individual who had a stellar application, like Harvard/Yale/Stanford-worthy, and a superb interview, who sent us several updates and a LOI. We were somewhat perplexed by this person's tenacious interest in our program. Turns out there were family/geographical reasons behind the whole thing, the applicant just never felt comfortable directly playing that card.

When it comes down to waitlist time I will scan through what folks have uploaded post-interview. The vast majority of times it has no impact. Occasionally I have seen it hurt people's chances. Come to think of it, in my experience this is probably more likely, than such correspondence having a positive impact.


See the following for classic examples of why most Admissions deans treat these as lies.

https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/loi-and-interviews.1252832/#post-18849958


And if you still don’t believe me, read these:

HomeSkool's Guide to Letters of Intent

Second letter of intent? Help!
 
It's an analogy, and a still valid one at that.

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent
Eleanor Roosevelt

You could use a different analogy. Also, the rest of the quote is important -
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. Never give it. Respect other people only on the basis of their individual character and personal efforts, struggles, and achievements. Never defer to another on the basis of his or her race, religion, gender, class, fame, wealth, or position."

When over 50% of entering medical students are female now, I would hope one could use less objectifying analogies and own up to the fact that it might be making people uncomfortable. We're all human and make mistakes but as Amine Ayad says, "Be humble to see your mistakes, courageous to admit them, and wise enough to correct them."
 
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You could use a different analogy. Also, the rest of the quote is important -
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. Never give it. Respect other people only on the basis of their individual character and personal efforts, struggles, and achievements. Never defer to another on the basis of his or her race, religion, gender, class, fame, wealth, or position."

When over 50% of entering medical students are female now, I would hope one could use less objectifying analogies and own up to the fact that it might be making people uncomfortable. We're all human and make mistakes but as Amine Ayad says, "Be humble to see your mistakes, courageous to admit them, and wise enough to correct them."
Unfortunately, SDN has buried the SPF somewhere in the same vicinity as Jimmy Hoffa's body, and so I don't want the thread to degenerate into that modality.

So what I am going to do is model good SDN behavior and use the Ignore function on you.
 
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent
 
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FYI. “The other dude” is an ADCOM and faculty member at his school.
Looking at your signature info you’ve had no MD interviews and 2 interview invites to DO schools but you didn’t attend any of them? Is that correct? Why didn’t you attend the interviews or are they coming up?
Why did you apply this cycle and not wait until you finished the program(was it a SMP?)
"The other dude" sent a really weird, borderline sexist analogy rather than a good solid explanation/advice. Also the "other dude" doesn't know me at all, and assumed what I said was an "outright lie". And yes, this is an SMP linked to the state school and I didn't want to take another year off. Also, I did attend one of the DO interviews and another coming up.
 
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It only helps at those needy schools who welcome these. It can hurt at those who get annoyed by desperation and, well, outright lies.
Do you know me? How do you know that I'm speaking "outright lies"? If you read my first paragraph, you'd see that there are many solid reasons to back up why this is my top-choice school: I'm IS, this is my state school that i have been attending for undergrad, SMP linked to this school, and I did undergrad research with a faculty from the school (not mentioned), and I've had some exposure with the dean. I understand your point as to why LOIs in general are not super effective, but I think in my specific situation, I'm not seeing any reason that it could hurt.
 
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Do you know me? How do you know that I'm speaking "outright lies"? If you read my first paragraph, you'd see that there are many solid reasons to back up why this is my top-choice school: I'm IS, this is my state school that i have been attending for undergrad, SMP linked to this school, and I did undergrad research with a faculty from the school (not mentioned), and I've had some exposure with the dean. I understand your point as to why LOIs in general are not super effective, but I think in my specific situation, I'm not seeing any reason that it could hurt.
*sigh* Admissions Deans certainly don't know you, and they see tons of these, hence their (and my) cynicism.

I suggest that it will be far more constructive to improve your app, instead of sending love letters.

I am also trying to explain to you, as the wise @gonnif points out all the time, that it's best to reduce risk in this process. In your OP, you asked if this was advisable. As I tell my 14 year old, do NOT ask a question you're not willing to hear the answer to.
 
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Do you know me? How do you know that I'm speaking "outright lies"? If you read my first paragraph, you'd see that there are many solid reasons to back up why this is my top-choice school: I'm IS, this is my state school that i have been attending for undergrad, SMP linked to this school, and I did undergrad research with a faculty from the school (not mentioned), and I've had some exposure with the dean. I understand your point as to why LOIs in general are not super effective, but I think in my specific situation, I'm not seeing any reason that it could hurt.

I’m not sure anyone said it would hurt you( I didn’t go back and read the whole thread). I think most said it wouldn’t help much, if at all. I’m not sure why you asked at all. You seem to have valid reasons for the school being your top choice so why did you even ask SDN? Write your letter and see what happens. Frankly your last post about your ties to the school are far more convincing than your first post with sort of a sixth degree knowledge of the dean through a course he taught some classes etc.. I’d leave that out because it hasn’t helped and you have reasons that might be stronger/better.
 
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*sigh* Admissions Deans certainly don't know you, and they see tons of these, hence their (and my) cynicism.

I suggest that it will be far more constructive to improve your app, instead of sending love letters.

I am also trying to explain to you, as the wise @gonnif points out all the time, that it's best to reduce risk in this process. In your OP, you asked if this was advisable. As I tell my 14 year old, do NOT ask a question you're not willing to hear the answer to.
And that suggestion right there is what you should have started with instead of those weird initial posts, dude. As I already said somewhere in the thread, i understand both the pros and cons of sending pre-II LOI. Just wanted clarification and other's pov.
 
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*sigh* Admissions Deans certainly don't know you, and they see tons of these, hence their (and my) cynicism.

I suggest that it will be far more constructive to improve your app, instead of sending love letters.

I am also trying to explain to you, as the wise @gonnif points out all the time, that it's best to reduce risk in this process. In your OP, you asked if this was advisable. As I tell my 14 year old, do NOT ask a question you're not willing to hear the answer to.
I’m all about risk it for a biscuit
 
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Bottom line -- it's been shown repeatedly that adcoms are very cynical when it comes to these due to how many they receive and how they KNOW things change between when a candidate feels desperate and sends them and the end of the cycle, when candidates might very well have other options. Adcoms consider fit based on what an entire application looks like when you submit it, not how you describe your fit in a letter after months have passed with no II.

As I said before, LOIs have been shown to move the needle in certain cases, with WL candidates at the end of the cycle. They really only work AFTER the school has already established some interest in the candidate, as evidenced by an II and then by no R. Think about it this way, if sincere desire to attend were a meaningful metric schools valued in issuing IIs, Harvard would be performing 40,000 interviews every year. :)
 
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