Life as a DDS/PhD?

[confused undergrad]

For those who have a dual DDS/PhD degree or are in a DDS/PhD program, what is your career like/going to be like? How much time do you spent practicing dentistry vs doing research or teaching? Do you enjoy it and is it what you imagined?

Another side question, is it possible for DDS/PhDs to teach undergrads students as an instructor/lecturer?

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[dentistrydmd]

Another side question, is it possible for DDS/PhDs to teach undergrads students as an instructor/lecturer?

Of course. The undergraduate education is usually taught at least in some capacity by academics as well as clinicians. The only thing is that as a researcher, often the time to do so is limited due to other commitments.

Are you simply looking to being a lecturer and instructor? You don't necessarily need a PhD to do so.

 

[confused undergrad]

Of course. The undergraduate education is usually taught at least in some capacity by academics as well as clinicians. The only thing is that as a researcher, often the time to do so is limited due to other commitments.

Are you simply looking to being a lecturer and instructor? You don't necessarily need a PhD to do so.

Being a lecturer for undergrad students is something I would like to do, along with practicing dentistry. I've spoke to a lot of my professors (all have a PhD) and they say it's pretty difficult to get a job as a professor as it is. I would think that having a PhD is kind of a requirement, but I'm not 100% sure.

But it's great to hear that DDS/PhDs can teach undergrads! That is something I am very interested in.

 

[CarcinomaInSitu]

What do you want to lecture to undergrads with a dds/phd? Most dual-degree guys will teach dental students because its much closer to the research and work they did as a PhD since its usually in oral biology or craniofacial sciences. The DDS/PHDs i do know that lecture undergrad rarely do and do so as guest lectures once a semester or so.

 

[dentistrydmd]

Being a lecturer for undergrad students is something I would like to do, along with practicing dentistry. I've spoke to a lot of my professors (all have a PhD) and they say it's pretty difficult to get a job as a professor as it is. I would think that having a PhD is kind of a requirement, but I'm not 100% sure.

But it's great to hear that DDS/PhDs can teach undergrads! That is something I am very interested in.

It doesn't take much to be a guest lecturer. You definitely dont need a PhD to do that. If you wanted to get into research you would need a masters or PhD to do so.

 

[confused undergrad]

What do you want to lecture to undergrads with a dds/phd? Most dual-degree guys will teach dental students because its much closer to the research and work they did as a PhD since its usually in oral biology or craniofacial sciences. The DDS/PHDs i do know that lecture undergrad rarely do and do so as guest lectures once a semester or so.

I believe the DMD/PhD program at the University of Florida allows their students to choose their PhD topic from a wide variety of biomedical sciences, such as Biochemistry and Molecular Biology, Cancer Biology, Genetics, Immunology and Microbiology, Molecular Cell Biology, and Neuroscience (DMD/PhD Program » Office of Research » College of Dentistry » University of Florida). I am interested in getting a PhD in Cancer Biology and perhaps lecturing an entire course in that subject to undergrads, while also practicing dentistry, if this is possible.

 

[DentistScientist]

For those who have a dual DDS/PhD degree or are in a DDS/PhD program, what is your career like/going to be like? How much time do you spent practicing dentistry vs doing research or teaching? Do you enjoy it and is it what you imagined?

Another side question, is it possible for DDS/PhDs to teach undergrads students as an instructor/lecturer?

My career is going to be great. I have a full-ride offer as the majority of my dental education is paid by NIH and a small portion paid by my dental school. Student research publications are important for accreditation and about 25% of all student publications in my school are mine. And I have not even started my PhD.

In addition to publications, I brought about 4 times more NIH $$$ than what my dental school gave me. It would take more than delivering 300 gold crowns to bring this much $$$ to school. My school currently loves me so much.

And without even bringing all these publications and NIH $$$, just by doing the PhD, you are more competitive than someone who is #1 in your class.

Would residency program directors prefer an applicant who will be going to private practice or an applicant who will be pursuing an academic career in their field, teaching students and residents, and bringing NIH $$$?

And furthermore, you can even bring NIH $$$ to the residency program while you are a resident. This not only pays for your residency but also brings $$$ to the department you are in.

My advice is that if you are going to do the dual degree program, you need to dream big. Choose the most promising, most competitive, and the most lucrative field. The more lucrative field you are in, the more powerful you will be as a faculty member and the more time you will have for your research and NIH $$$ and also less time for teaching.

 

[confused undergrad]

My career is going to be great. I have a full-ride offer as the majority of my dental education is paid by NIH and a small portion paid by my dental school. Student research publications are important for accreditation and about 25% of all student publications in my school are mine. And I have not even started my PhD.

In addition to publications, I brought about 4 times more NIH $$$ than what my dental school gave me. It would take more than delivering 300 gold crowns to bring this much $$$ to school. My school currently loves me so much.

And without even bringing all these publications and NIH $$$, just by doing the PhD, you are more competitive than someone who is #1 in your class.

Would residency program directors prefer an applicant who will be going to private practice or an applicant who will be pursuing an academic career in their field, teaching students and residents, and bringing NIH $$$?

And furthermore, you can even bring NIH $$$ to the residency program while you are a resident. This not only pays for your residency but also brings $$$ to the department you are in.

My advice is that if you are going to do the dual degree program, you need to dream big. Choose the most promising, most competitive, and the most lucrative field. The more lucrative field you are in, the more powerful you will be as a faculty member and the more time you will have for your research and NIH $$$ and also less time for teaching.

That sounds amazing! How were you able to publish so much and bring in NIH funding without even starting your PhD yet? I am not really interested in residency programs. I would rather spend a few days a week in general practice and a few researching and teaching, if that's possible.

 

[wannagiveup]

I hear DDS-PhD's have huge egos. I gotta give it them tho. All the dual degree professors I've had were smart and hard working as heck. I think a lot of the big names in dentistry are DDS-PhD's.

 

[DentistScientist]

That sounds amazing! How were you able to publish so much and bring in NIH funding without even starting your PhD yet? I am not really interested in residency programs. I would rather spend a few days a week in general practice and a few researching and teaching, if that's possible.

I was able to do these cause my PhD mentors are amazing. In addition, I have several years of experience working at NIH. I also have couple of powerful connections with NIH people who actually control the NIH$$$. Not sure whether these connections were helpful as the NIH $$$ is primarily determined by the quality of research. So I am going to say that it was my PhD mentors who helped me a lot. So I was able to accomplish these in a short period of time and while handling dental school.

Yes, you can work several days in private practice and be a party time faculty member. However, I don't recommend doing this in general dentistry because general dentistry department doesn't make a lot of money for school compared to ortho and omfs departments so you have to do more work for them. This means less research time for you and less competitive when you are applying for NIH $$$.

 

[wannagiveup]

And without even bringing all these publications and NIH $$$, just by doing the PhD, you are more competitive than someone who is #1 in your class.

No. I know a few who didn't get into a specialty program on their first try.

 

[DentistScientist]

No. I know a few who didn't get into a specialty program on their first try.

okay. if that makes you happier.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

Choose the most promising, most competitive, and the most lucrative field.

As opposed to what you’re actually interested in?

Big Hoss

 

[DentistScientist]

As opposed to what you’re actually interested in?

Big Hoss

oh no way. One's interest is always the most important factor. I thought that was a common sense for everyone here and was already taken into the factor before considering other factors I listed.

 

[AONLINE]

just by doing the PhD, you are more competitive than someone who is #1 in your class.

How about someone who has a PhD in a non-related field from their previous life? Are they automatically more competitive when they apply for specialties because they get a PhD before d-school?

 

[DentistScientist]

How about someone who has a PhD in a non-related field from their previous life? Are they automatically more competitive when they apply for specialties because they get a PhD before d-school?

I think this depends on the field. If one could win NIH F31 during one's PhD years and if the dental school is focused on research and academics, yes. Because program directors in these dental schools would know what F31 is.

There are people with PhDs applying to medical schools and then later residency programs. Based on my observation of MDPhD threads, these folks didn't have the same advantage as people who finished MD PhD combined programs.

 

[dentistrydmd]

How about someone who has a PhD in a non-related field from their previous life? Are they automatically more competitive when they apply for specialties because they get a PhD before d-school?

As a researcher in dentistry probably not. If you intend on getting into research related to your original PhD I would say that would make sense, but if you are intending on pursuing an academic career, it is best to obtain the PhD by researching an area of dentistry that interests you and that will be relevant to your future academic research.

 

[dentistrydmd]

That sounds amazing! How were you able to publish so much and bring in NIH funding without even starting your PhD yet? I am not really interested in residency programs. I would rather spend a few days a week in general practice and a few researching and teaching, if that's possible.

So it depends on what exactly you are looking for. If you are interested in becoming a clinic instructor one day a week and perhaps lecture for the undergraduate dental students this is possible without a masters or phd. If you are looking to take on a more active role in teaching ie. to direct a course then specialty training which would include a masters or simply a masters/phd related to dentistry would help you achieve this. I think it really only makes sense to pursue a PhD in dentistry if you are intending on devoting the majority of your time in academia/research and clinical work takes on a secondary role to service your research. If research is not on your radar then I would say that doing a PhD would not make sense.

 

[wannagiveup]

I think this depends on the field. If one could win NIH F31 during one's PhD years and if the dental school is focused on research and academics, yes. Because program directors in these dental schools would know what F31 is.

There are people with PhDs applying to medical schools and then later residency programs. Based on my observation of MDPhD threads, these folks didn't have the same advantage as people who finished MD PhD combined programs.

With all due respect, a lot of the program directors outside of the Ivy league, UCSF, UCLA, UAB (research-heavy schools) etc don't even know what R01 is. How would they know any of the F grants. You overestimate how much having F funding and PhD will help with specializing. Yes, they help but not as much as you think. I think the biggest tangible advantage of doing one of these programs is that it pays for school.

PS. You really think a program director will choose someone with a PhD but low CBSE over #1 with 80+ CBSE?

 

[dentistrydmd]

PS. You really think a program director will choose someone with a PhD but low CBSE over #1 with 80+ CBSE?

Well this should be obvious. It will give you a slight edge over traditional applicants, but not the top-tier applicants. This especially applies to the most competitive specialties.

 

[DentistScientist]

With all due respect, a lot of the program directors outside of the Ivy league, UCSF, UCLA, UAB (research-heavy schools) etc don't even know what R01 is. How would they know any of the F grants. You overestimate how much having F funding and PhD will help with specializing. Yes, they help but not as much as you think. I think the biggest tangible advantage of doing one of these programs is that it pays for school.

PS. You really think a program director will choose someone with a PhD but low CBSE over #1 with 80+ CBSE?

Of course for OMFS, without CBSE scores, a dual degree with F award or anyone will not get in. That's like trying to get into a dental school without DAT scores. You are providing a poor example to downplay dual degree advantage.

However, for ortho, dual degree with F award will be more competitive than #1 in the class especially in the academic programs that offer full-scholarships like Harvard. This is not an overestimation and it is happening in my school. Same for endo if a dual degree has decent clinical skills.

 

[wannagiveup]

Of course for OMFS, without CBSE scores, a dual degree with F award or anyone will not get in. That's like trying to get into a dental school without DAT scores. You are providing a poor example to downplay dual degree advantage.

However, for ortho, dual degree with F award will be more competitive than #1 in the class especially in the academic programs that offer full-scholarships like Harvard. This is not an overestimation and it is happening in my school. Same for endo if a dual degree has decent clinical skills.

Ok. I'm gonna call you out on it. You have no idea what you are talking about. The F30 award is given out like candies. Just look at the F30 award rate by NIDCR. It's very high compared to other institutes, and it's more a training grant (as opposed to R grants and even K grants) so its significance is not as great as say being ranked #1 or even being elected to OKU. Let's be honest. If you come from a half decent program with some preliminary data with a solid mentor, you are pretty much getting the F30. Being in top 10 or #1 is significantly more difficult imo. You make it sound like being a dual degree candidate with the F30 is like having a golden ticket to a competitive specialty. It's not. I'd say it's more of a super cool EC that will act as a tie breaker between otherwise equally qualified candidates.

 

[DentistScientist]

Ok. I'm gonna call you out on it. You have no idea what you are talking about. The F award is given out like candies. Just look at the award rate by NIDCR.

It's only 5% higher than other institutes in NIH. 15% in other institutes and 20% in NIDCR. Sure, DDS/PhD applicant pool is probably weaker than MD/PhD pool but F award is a F award. Do you really think one does not have a strong chance in 6 year MD-OMFS programs even though one has decent CBSE score and a F award?

Probably the dual degree program in your school does not give specialty advantage to dual degrees. However, that is not the case in my program and couple others I know.

 

[dentistrydmd]

I'd say it's more of a super cool EC that will act as a tie breaker between otherwise equally qualified candidates.

This is correct. Candidates would be at around the same level for this to make a significant difference.

 

[DentistScientist]

Ok. I'm gonna call you out on it. You have no idea what you are talking about. The F30 award is given out like candies. Just look at the F30 award rate by NIDCR. It's very high compared to other institutes, and it's more a training grant (as opposed to R grants and even K grants) so its significance is not as great as say being ranked #1 or even being elected to OKU. Let's be honest. If you come from a half decent program with some preliminary data with a solid mentor, you are pretty much getting the F30. Being in top 10 or #1 is significantly more difficult imo. You make it sound like being a dual degree candidate with the F30 is like having a golden ticket to a competitive specialty. It's not. I'd say it's more of a super cool EC that will act as a tie breaker between otherwise equally qualified candidates.

Surely program directors would prefer top ranked applicants with private practice aspirations over next generation academic dentists with decent grades and NIH F award. I don't think this is going anywhere. Let's discuss this again 3~4 years later.

It's unfortunate that a lot of people in dentistry look down on research.

 

[slowthai]

It's the same thing in the most competitive fields of medicine; no one gives a crap if you have a PhD if you're not qualified (killer board scores, research in the specialty, etc). The PhD is a bonus, really. At some programs in some specialties (like orthopaedic surgery), they might even question your commitment to practicing clinical medicine.

 

[confused undergrad]

I just want to specify, I am not interested in doing the PhD just to get into a residency. I am interested in practicing dentistry while also doing research and teaching (possibly undergrads). I wanted to know what life as a DDS/PhD who practices and does research and teaches looks like.

Thanks

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

It's unfortunate that a lot of people in dentistry look down on research.

No one here is looking down on research or PhDs. They’re just saying it’s not as big a bump when applying to specialty programs as you think it is.

Big Hoss

 

[dentistrydmd]

Surely program directors would prefer top ranked applicants with private practice aspirations over next generation academic dentists with decent grades and NIH F award. I don't think this is going anywhere. Let's discuss this again 3~4 years later.

It's unfortunate that a lot of people in dentistry look down on research.

Don't make the assumption that anyone is looking down on research in dentistry. People were taking issue with the claims you were making that it makes someone a stellar candidate by virtue of the fact that they have completed a PhD.

Never let that hold you back from your aspirations. If you work hard enough at it you will get into the specialty you want.

 

[dentistrydmd]

I just want to specify, I am not interested in doing the PhD just to get into a residency. I am interested in practicing dentistry while also doing research and teaching (possibly undergrads). I wanted to know what life as a DDS/PhD who practices and does research and teaches looks like.

Thanks

I would suggest you interviewing some academics at a local dental school and see if their day to day life is something that is attractive to you.