Locums Market Temp Check

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aneftp said:
I’ve had over 2 decades to network.

I do try to help newer grads out. Just a lot of networking.

GI is a different beast. So lucrative 2005-2015. Many of my friends sold out their GI centers entities to surgery partners , Amsurg etc. and they also took a cut of anesthesia collections.

Now they just want to be hospital employees.

Every procedurist contract for locums is different

My gen surgeon friend gets $3000 flat for 8 hrs than bills $250-hr after 3pm. So he has tons of incentive to operate after 3pm while doing locums

Some Gi docs do scopes for $200/per scope at VA hospitals for fee for service but they tell me the turnover is slow and the most they can scope is 10 in a day cause the staff is not motivated.
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thanks aneftp, I do appreciate the help, I understand GI locums may not be your niche though! Any suggestions on how I can start this networking during fellowship?

I was born a couple of decades too late to make money in 2005-2015, but hoping I can ride the locums and facility fees of the late 2020s to retire early 3 years from finishing fellowship. I'm just wondering if some of the public locums rates I'm seeing for GI are actually real because I don't know any GIs that actually grind locums like you guys do. I see some offers for $4-5k/day, with $400-$500/hr rates, which makes me wonder how much the locums companies and vendors are extracting from the transaction. But I would be okay with living in the middle of nowhere and grinding these jobs for a while if it opens the possibility of retiring by age 35.

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IM_to_ortho_hopeful said:
thanks aneftp, I do appreciate the help, I understand GI locums may not be your niche though! Any suggestions on how I can start this networking during fellowship?

I was born a couple of decades too late to make money in 2005-2015, but hoping I can ride the locums and facility fees of the late 2020s to retire early 3 years from finishing fellowship. I'm just wondering if some of the public locums rates I'm seeing for GI are actually real because I don't know any GIs that actually grind locums like you guys do. I see some offers for $4-5k/day, with $400-$500/hr rates, which makes me wonder how much the locums companies and vendors are extracting from the transaction. But I would be okay with living in the middle of nowhere and grinding these jobs for a while if it opens the possibility of retiring by age 35.

www.doccafe.com

Locum Gastroenterology Physician job in Las Cruces, NM - Make $450/hr - $500/hr in Las Cruces, New Mexico at Aya Locums · DocCafe

Apply for Gastroenterology Physician jobs in Las Cruces, New Mexico on DocCafe
www.doccafe.com www.doccafe.com

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Locums in Columbus GA/$4400 Day (Gastroenterology) in Columbus, Georgia at Aya Locums · DocCafe

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www.doccafe.com www.doccafe.com

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Locum Gastroenterology Physician job in Tacoma, WA - Make $4,000/day - $4,500/day in Tacoma, Washington at Aya Locums · DocCafe

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Go on Facebook physicians only Locum tenems interest group. Has 5-6k members. Diverse Facebook group. Some recruiters on there as well

A few whiny docs on there
 
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NicholasPavona said:
I'm sure you'll come close. Crank out those EGDs and colonoscopies and you'll be a millionaire in no time.
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Our endoscopy group's docs are such scope-specialists that I hear they're functionally useless for any kind of GI consult that doesn't involve a probe. To the point that the hospital system is looking to hire their own GI docs so that the ICU and ward can get medical questions answered.

It's fascinating. I used to think that ortho was the epitome of abandoning doctorhood to be a technician, but maybe it's actually GI.

Have to say, it's absolutely hilarious that @IM_to_ortho_hopeful is a GI. 😉
 
pgg said:
Our endoscopy group's docs are such scope-specialists that I hear they're functionally useless for any kind of GI consult that doesn't involve a probe. To the point that the hospital system is looking to hire their own GI docs so that the ICU and ward can get medical questions answered.

It's fascinating. I used to think that ortho was the epitome of abandoning doctorhood to be a technician, but maybe it's actually GI.

Have to say, it's absolutely hilarious that @IM_to_ortho_hopeful is a GI. 😉
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Well don't blame me blame the system man. A lot of people like me don't end up matching their desired specialty in medical school and end up in specialties like IM, these same applicants tend to still have stacked applications so end up not really having much trouble matching into scopology or cathology. What do you want me to do? I never wanted to be an internist but have to make the best of the situation I'm in. I find solace in still having the ability to retire early. Idk what I would do if I was forced to do IM for the rest of my life, sounds horrible.
 
kidthor said:
Spoken like a true GI doc! I kid… mostly.
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Interventional cardiology is. Many are pulling 1.5 million these days being HOSPITAL EMPLOYED

The non compete exempts 501c so it’s tricky being hospitals employee so now the docs I know are changing their non competes. Playing hard ball with hospitals admin

It’s a chess game.
 
aneftp said:
Interventional cardiology is. Many are pulling 1.5 million these days being HOSPITAL EMPLOYED

The non compete exempts 501c so it’s tricky being hospitals employee so now the docs I know are changing their non competes. Playing hard ball with hospitals admin

It’s a chess game.
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Yup, take what anesthesiologist are getting and double it for subspecialist surgeons and advanced proceduralists. I think closer to 1.5x for ortho. 1.2x for subspecialty anesthesiologists.

EP docs are the money people in every hospital for sure.

Remember if they’re paying you x, the in demand surgeon is almost definitely getting x + something, so don’t feel bad negotiating
 
aneftp said:
Interventional cardiology is. Many are pulling 1.5 million these days being HOSPITAL EMPLOYED

The non compete exempts 501c so it’s tricky being hospitals employee so now the docs I know are changing their non competes. Playing hard ball with hospitals admin

It’s a chess game.
Click to expand...

Yes I know a few GI docs pulling almost that much as hospital employees. They are pretty busy though.
 
amyl said:
Well USAP has a zero tolerance policy as well… zero mj even in states where it’s legal. One guy (not in my division) tested positive after a two week vacation in Colorado - claimed it was legal there… he was gone immediately
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I don’t use cannabis and even I think this is a wild overreaction. I suppose if you sign a contract that says you won’t use cannabis, that’s one thing, but do they fire everybody who has a glass of wine at dinner?
 
IM_to_ortho_hopeful said:
Well don't blame me blame the system man. A lot of people like me don't end up matching their desired specialty in medical school and end up in specialties like IM, these same applicants tend to still have stacked applications so end up not really having much trouble matching into scopology or cathology. What do you want me to do? I never wanted to be an internist but have to make the best of the situation I'm in. I find solace in still having the ability to retire early. Idk what I would do if I was forced to do IM for the rest of my life, sounds horrible.
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LOL

I'm not judging, just laughing because I think it's funny that you went from one specialty where people quit being doctors, to another specialty where people quit being doctors. 🙂

Retire early and live your best life. Good luck!
 
aneftp said:
Interventional cardiology is. Many are pulling 1.5 million these days being HOSPITAL EMPLOYED

The non compete exempts 501c so it’s tricky being hospitals employee so now the docs I know are changing their non competes. Playing hard ball with hospitals admin

It’s a chess game.
Click to expand...

Cards always was 7 fig 20+ years ago in PP setting and that's not the golden era either. But yes 1.5m hospital employe was def not the case then cause everyone made probably more doing PP. Let's not do the math what 1.5m in the early 2000s would be now. Its morally depressing.
Family friend in his early 60s has a 20m nw for example and he's not shy to tell you. His identity is medicine so he did work but not insanely.
Said at the start of his career just his reading fees for ekg/nuc stress/echos some days were almost 10k total alone then they got cut and he did more in office till that got cut but he already had bank so he didn't care as much.
 
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cchoukal said:
I don’t use cannabis and even I think this is a wild overreaction. I suppose if you sign a contract that says you won’t use cannabis, that’s one thing, but do they fire everybody who has a glass of wine at dinner?
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🤷‍♀️ wine not a problem… mj is… it’s not legal here - the hair test does show chronic alcohol, opiate, benzo, etc use. I guess they think anyone can clean it up for a week or two.
 
finalpsychyear said:
Cards always was 7 fig 20+ years ago in PP setting and that's not the golden era either. But yes 1.5m hospital employe was def not the case then cause everyone made probably more doing PP. Let's not do the math what 1.5m in the early 2000s would be now. Its morally depressing.
Family friend in his early 60s has a 20m nw for example and he's not shy to tell you. His identity is medicine so he did work but not insanely.
Said at the start of his career just his reading fees for ekg/nuc stress/echos some days were almost 10k total alone then they got cut and he did more in office till that got cut but he already had bank so he didn't care as much.
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Anesthesia was 1 Million plus 20 years also as well in many private practice models working 40 hours a week in the southeast

Of course they were pawning off junior partnership never gonna to be partners lol
 
2023 numbers from St Francis in Roslyn. Cardiology is good.

IMG_2245.jpeg
 
nimbus said:
2023 numbers from St Francis in Roslyn. Cardiology is good.

View attachment 391550
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Cardiology is a good gig… but these are chair positions… these guys are all 60+ years old and probably put in 20+ years to become chairs… these numbers are not realistic for new cardiology fellows even 10 years out from fellowship… which would put them at the young age of maybe around 43-45. You can point to any medical or surgical chair at any big hospital and find similar salaries… even at academic centers…

Ironically chairs do what old partners do to their associates. Eat their professional fees. I wonder how many EPs this chair has working under him where he is eating their professional and facility fees
 
IM_to_ortho_hopeful said:
Cardiology is a good gig… but these are chair positions… these guys are all 60+ years old and probably put in 20+ years to become chairs… these numbers are not realistic for new cardiology fellows even 10 years out from fellowship… which would put them at the young age of maybe around 43-45. You can point to any medical or surgical chair at any big hospital and find similar salaries… even at academic centers…

Ironically chairs do what old partners do to their associates. Eat their professional fees. I wonder how many EPs this chair has working under him where he is eating their professional and facility fees
Click to expand...


Of course new EP fellows don’t start at 5-6mil. But the anesthesia chair at our local U makes $1.4mil. She’s put in 20+ years.
 
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makemoney2024 said:
Does this mean all cardiologists are making this?? Or all the physicians? These numbers are crazy high.
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I'm sure it's the same as some anesthesiologists on here making $800K reportedly - it's not the majority, and limited to non-major metro areas. That is a generalization of course, some fortunate/industrious individuals/hustlers are going to be outliers, but some new grad in either specialty isn't just going to walk into a gig like that.
 
SRYSPAC said:
I'm sure it's the same as some anesthesiologists on here making $800K reportedly - it's not the majority, and limited to non-major metro areas. That is a generalization of course, some fortunate/industrious individuals/hustlers are going to be outliers, but some new grad in either specialty isn't just going to walk into a gig like that.
Click to expand...

I have a good buddy general cards in rural area making 500kish
 
SRYSPAC said:
I'm sure it's the same as some anesthesiologists on here making $800K reportedly - it's not the majority, and limited to non-major metro areas. That is a generalization of course, some fortunate/industrious individuals/hustlers are going to be outliers, but some new grad in either specialty isn't just going to walk into a gig like that.
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The sky is the limit these days in terms of income potential for many specialities. I feel like the flood gate have opened up since Covid. My home boys were telling me they been doing this since 2017 (the locums anesthesia) and their income goes up more and more

One the low end of things u can easily pull 600k doing the bare minimum with calls and weekends as locums.

The employer have to come up with different employment strategies to recruit

With crnas. Many are getting 40k sign on bonus (for one year) on top of their 240k w2 salary on top of the 8 weeks paid off. It’s not a bad deal. Those are the smart crnas. That’s and it take. 300k for one crna

Imagine the docs. It will take 600k working a regular 40 hr a week schedule with 10 weeks off to entice w2 docs.

Don’t settle for 450k-500k plus calls. That pushes u to 55 hrs a week
 
SRYSPAC said:
I'm sure it's the same as some anesthesiologists on here making $800K reportedly - it's not the majority, and limited to non-major metro areas. That is a generalization of course, some fortunate/industrious individuals/hustlers are going to be outliers, but some new grad in either specialty isn't just going to walk into a gig like that.
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I am asking specifically of the graph/chart displayed by @nimbus showing "Physician - $1.844,000. These are state hospitals I presume that publish this data. Who are these "Physicians?"

And by the way these days many are making $800k with a little hustle whereas a few years that number would have been about 200 to 300K les. . I can tell you what I make now per hour is almos double what I made at same job when I started 5 years ago.
 
nimbus said:
Of course new EP fellows don’t start at 5-6mil. But the anesthesia chair at our local U makes $1.4mil. She’s put in 20+ years.
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Even if you put in 20 years in academics you are not guaranteed a chair position. Look some of these guys up on pubmed. They make significant scientific contributions to the field
 
makemoney2024 said:
I am asking specifically of the graph/chart displayed by @nimbus showing "Physician - $1.844,000. These are state hospitals I presume that publish this data. Who are these "Physicians?"

And by the way these days many are making $800k with a little hustle whereas a few years that number would have been about 200 to 300K les. . I can tell you what I make now per hour is almos double what I made at same job when I started 5 years ago.
Click to expand...

The physicians are cardiologists and cardiac surgeons.

It’s from Crains business weekly. Data from IRS form 990 for nonprofit organizations. St Francis is a private nonprofit hospital.
 
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amyl said:
🤷‍♀️ wine not a problem… mj is… it’s not legal here - the hair test does show chronic alcohol, opiate, benzo, etc use. I guess they think anyone can clean it up for a week or two.
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well right, but where he (claimed he) used it, it is legal. It's like driving 65 in a 65 MPH zone, and then getting pulled over doing 30 in a 30 because he HAD been going above 30 earlier. Like I said, if it's in the contract, so be it, but that's intense.
 
SRYSPAC said:
I'm sure it's the same as some anesthesiologists on here making $800K reportedly - it's not the majority, and limited to non-major metro areas. That is a generalization of course, some fortunate/industrious individuals/hustlers are going to be outliers, but some new grad in either specialty isn't just going to walk into a gig like that.
Click to expand...

I worked with a CRNA couple who were doing locums at a community hospital. No call, no weekends. Straightforward cases, no trauma. They told the OR circulators that they took in 800,000 a year.
 
TheLoneWolf said:
I worked with a CRNA couple who were doing locums at a community hospital. No call, no weekends. Straightforward cases, no trauma. They told the OR circulators that they took in 800,000 a year.
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That’s 400k a year per crna. Average these days for no call no weekends crnas.

The call taking crnas hit 700-800k.
 
centdoc said:
Wtf… why are any of you working with crNas??
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Are u familiar with anesthesia? How it works?

There simply isn’t enough anesthesia bodies and the hospital structures case load around the bodies available

If u are md only practice. How do u keep staff if they have 3 elective rooms running to 9pm at community non trauma hospital nightly and elective weekend cases running to 5pm Saturday and Sunday also 3 rooms

U want to run md only that late in ur practice?

Good luck.
 
SRYSPAC said:
I'm sure it's the same as some anesthesiologists on here making $800K reportedly - it's not the majority, and limited to non-major metro areas. That is a generalization of course, some fortunate/industrious individuals/hustlers are going to be outliers, but some new grad in either specialty isn't just going to walk into a gig like that.
Click to expand...
I’m making 700k in pure income, not including benefits
 
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TheLoneWolf said:
I worked with a CRNA couple who were doing locums at a community hospital. No call, no weekends. Straightforward cases, no trauma. They told the OR circulators that they took in 800,000 a year.
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I just got an email for a job in South Bend, Indiana. No call, no weekends, 40hrs/week, 52K/month aka about $640K.

Solo cases 100% of the time.
 
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aneftp said:
Are u familiar with anesthesia? How it works?

There simply isn’t enough anesthesia bodies and the hospital structures case load around the bodies available

If u are md only practice. How do u keep staff if they have 3 elective rooms running to 9pm at community non trauma hospital nightly and elective weekend cases running to 5pm Saturday and Sunday also 3 rooms

U want to run md only that late in ur practice?

Good luck.
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Yes. MD groups can work hard like this or the culture of the hospital prevents bull**** cases from running at all kinds of crazy hours.
That’s simply how it works out West in MD only practices. Plenty of times I wasn’t on call and was at work past 7pm.
 
makemoney2024 said:
Yes. MD groups can work hard like this or the culture of the hospital prevents bull**** cases from running at all kinds of crazy hours.
That’s simply how it works out West in MD only practices. Plenty of times I wasn’t on call and was at work past 7pm.
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I’ve worked out in California many moons ago and they had 3 md consistency working past 7pm
That’s not good for a practice with ob and stand alone surgery center and main trauma 2 hospitals.

14 MD only practice. At the time it was one of the best paying California jobs at 600k/7 weeks off in mid 2000s. But u were averaging 65-70 hrs a week of work.

8-9 or in daytime
2-3 at surgery center
The float doc ran the board and covered ob as well

Not an easy practice to work at.
 
aneftp said:
Are u familiar with anesthesia? How it works?

There simply isn’t enough anesthesia bodies and the hospital structures case load around the bodies available

If u are md only practice. How do u keep staff if they have 3 elective rooms running to 9pm at community non trauma hospital nightly and elective weekend cases running to 5pm Saturday and Sunday also 3 rooms

U want to run md only that late in ur practice?

Good luck.
Click to expand...

Yes, totally understand how anesthesia works. I’ve only ever been in an MD only practice. Eat what you kill. New hires get a lot of OB and make a ton of cash, while they recruit new surgeons to the practice in their regular OR days. After about a year or so, they have their own surgeon(s) and reduce or eliminate the OB portion. And yes, we can work late, but in an eat what you kill model, we don’t mind. It sounds like you have a really ****ty model.
 
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centdoc said:
Yes, totally understand how anesthesia works. I’ve only ever been in an MD only practice. Eat what you kill. New hires get a lot of OB and make a ton of cash, while they recruit new surgeons to the practice in their regular OR days. After about a year or so, they have their own surgeon(s) and reduce or eliminate the OB portion. And yes, we can work late, but in an eat what you kill model, we don’t mind. It sounds like you have a really ****ty model.
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Nah. My model is work smarter. Make more and have more time off I rarely work 40 hrs in a w2 environment.

I’m explaining various practice models out there
 
centdoc said:
Yes, totally understand how anesthesia works. I’ve only ever been in an MD only practice. Eat what you kill. New hires get a lot of OB and make a ton of cash, while they recruit new surgeons to the practice in their regular OR days. After about a year or so, they have their own surgeon(s) and reduce or eliminate the OB portion. And yes, we can work late, but in an eat what you kill model, we don’t mind. It sounds like you have a really ****ty model.
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How common are these types of practices where anesthesia follows or works with a select surgeon(s)? Sounds ole school.
 
nimbus said:
Some in Honolulu too.
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I don’t know how the fee for service model can survive anymore with the no surprises act billing

You will be billing $60-70 a unit if independent small practice. Plus Medicare. You will be lucky to Average $40/45/unit. Doing 12k units

That only puts u at $540k assuming normal case load. Which almost any Joe can make anywhere
 
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