Locums Market Temp Check

[aneftp]

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Of the weeks you work, how many weekends are you covering ? Both days ?

Depends how I want to run it. Can be every 5th weekends to 8th weekends. It’s lot bad.

I would never take a job that actually involves hard work. That’s stupidity. That’s why I turned down $500/hr this week. Too much work. I’d rather chill on the golf course at $350-hr getting paid not to work.

 

[kidthor]

I’d rather chill on the golf course at $350-hr getting paid not to work.

Sign me up!

 

[Hoya11]

Depends how I want to run it. Can be every 5th weekends to 8th weekends. It’s lot bad.

I would never take a job that actually involves hard work. That’s stupidity. That’s why I turned down $500/hr this week. Too much work. I’d rather chill on the golf course at $350-hr getting paid not to work.

Being on the hook like that I find very painful. Would rather work - or not.

 

[aneftp]

Being on the hook like that I find very painful. Would rather work - or not.

I’m ok being on the hook if I’m getting 26-30 weeks. Off

I’m not ok with 13-16 weeks off.

 

[Hoya11]

I’m ok being on the hook if I’m getting 26-30 weeks. Off

I’m not ok with 13-16 weeks off.

Yeah but what you are not really saying is that it sounds like there is a significant amount of nights - weekend hours during the on weeks even though it’s just beeper

I think you are comparing numbers with people who mostly work during the day hours and minimal call / off hours

 

[aneftp]

Yeah but what you are not really saying is that it sounds like there is a significant amount of nights - weekend hours during the on weeks even though it’s just beeper

I think you are comparing numbers with people who mostly work during the day hours and minimal call / off hours

It’s 7 total beeper nights every 5-8 weeks. It’s no biggie.

How many calls do you take every 5-8 weeks?

Most places average 4-5 calls every 4-5 weeks? And get 10-13 weeks off?

 

[SRYSPAC]

80 hours a week gets you 34 weeks off

26 weeks off is around 48 hours worked.

Yes. I guess it’s bfe if there are two international airports with non stop flights to Europe 20-25 minutes away.

Sounds like a great gig then, not trying to ruffle feathers. AMC's have tried advertising an 80 hour work week before, but it doesn't sound like this is that.

You should take it then; the location legitimately sounds great.

 

[aneftp]

Sounds like a great gig then, not trying to ruffle feathers. AMC's have tried advertising an 80 hour work week before, but it doesn't sound like this is that.

You should take it then; the location legitimately sounds great.

Places advise 7a-7p (7 days a week) and next week off

I’m like wtf. That’s 84 clinical hours in house. Ain’t no idiot taking the job

I trust no w2 job. I’m in and out as good as 60 days out with notice. They want 90 days. I want 60 days out clause.

Some places trying ridiculous 120 days notice. Like a trapped prisoner

 

[SRYSPAC]

Places advise 7a-7p (7 days a week) and next week off

I’m like wtf. That’s 84 clinical hours in house. Ain’t no idiot taking the job

I trust no w2 job. I’m in and out as good as 60 days out with notice. They want 90 days. I want 60 days out clause.

Some places trying ridiculous 120 days notice. Like a trapped prisoner

They do it because they can get away with it, and in some locations that is just the reality.

New grads at my shop are willing to cover extra calls for mid 200's, and our location has no shortage of new applicants; it is what it is, so I'll use some PTO weeks for locums elsewhere, and enjoy the W2 stability I have for my particular family situation and geographic needs

That is all one can do; for someone more flexible, absolutely one should be very aggressive in negotiating.

 

[aneftp]

They do it because they can get away with it, and in some locations that is just the reality.

New grads at my shop are willing to cover extra calls for mid 200's, and our location has no shortage of new applicants; it is what it is, so I'll use some PTO weeks for locums elsewhere, and enjoy the W2 stability I have for my particular family situation and geographic needs

That is all one can do; for someone more flexible, absolutely one should be very aggressive in negotiating.

New people figure it too much work for 7a-7p very quickly. Especially 7 days in a row. The daytime work sucks day in and day out without a day off

You literally spend 2 days just to recover from that 84 hr week. So left with only 5 days of true rest.

 

[GaseousClay]

They used to be good for balance but they’re not anymore. Now the associates and partners are being worked hard since people are leaving so they’re the last lackeys standing. People won’t sign up for per diems either because the rates are so poor compared to locums (including locums at those same Kaisers!!!).

per diems are supposedly getting $250/hr but overall its much easier than a locums gigs elsewhere(they get multiple breaks, people see their preops, pretty easy case load). the locums kaiser is bringing in is pissing off the full timers as well as the per diems.

 

[amyl]

I have a friend in Kaiser on the east coast - management definitely thinks this a temporary market bump and are counting on their pensions to handcuff people. It does seem like she has an easy gig with nice patient population and not big cases but I think she’s doing 50h a week for 500 plus benefits. They’re also pissing off the full timers bc the locums are getting $$$$ but they won’t up the full time pay. She gave up trying to get me there bc it’s just no where near enough money… I want my beauty sleep but I’m not scared of some big case badness.
I’d be interested to see the data on crna graduates going forward - I think lots of places are counting on a glut of crnas bringing the costs back down. I think they’re wrong but im just guessing

 

[aneftp]

I have a friend in Kaiser on the east coast - management definitely thinks this a temporary market bump and are counting on their pensions to handcuff people. It does seem like she has an easy gig with nice patient population and not big cases but I think she’s doing 50h a week for 500 plus benefits. They’re also pissing off the full timers bc the locums are getting $$$$ but they won’t up the full time pay. She gave up trying to get me there bc it’s just no where near enough money… I want my beauty sleep but I’m not scared of some big case badness.
I’d be interested to see the data on crna graduates going forward - I think lots of places are counting on a glut of crnas bringing the costs back down. I think they’re wrong but im just guessing

At least in Florida. The new grad crnas will stay at a trauma one place for one year or two. Than bail for locums. So a facility is just being used for additionally confident booster.

Crnas are not taking a pay cut. Sure you may get some young crna moms who do need to cut back for their kids. But those are the ones who aren’t doing full time w2 anyways. And they fill in prn w2 or 1099 elsewhere

 

[CopaceticOne]

Crnas are not taking a pay cut.

That’s one thing I’ve seen with nurses - seems nearly impossible to unring a bell. Once pay goes up, it stays up.

And CRNAs are nurses.

 

[DaTruMD]

That’s one thing I’ve seen with nurses - seems nearly impossible to unring a bell. Once pay goes up, it stays up.

And CRNAs are nurses.

I'm not sure I agree with this. Travel nurses (RN) were making a killing during COVID but from what I understand, the demand has gone down since (not talking about CRNAs here). I think at some point, an equilibrium will be reached and pay for locums will go down a bit, but not sure when that will occur...

 

[CopaceticOne]

I'm not sure I agree with this. Travel nurses (RN) were making a killing during COVID but from what I understand, the demand has gone down since (not talking about CRNAs here). I think at some point, an equilibrium will be reached and pay for locums will go down a bit, but not sure when that will occur...

Agree when it comes to locums. I was speaking to what employed pay will do.

The business challenge is for the hospitals to figure out the lowest pay that can cause the workforce to shift from locums to employed.

 

[aneftp]

Agree when it comes to locums. I was speaking to what employed pay will do.

The business challenge is for the hospitals to figure out the lowest pay that can cause the workforce to shift from locums to employed.

The lowest pay right now is 650k/10 weeks off assuming 45 hour work weeks w2 job.

That’s why the 26 week off job for 500k makes sense and more desirables. They put in around 48 hrs a week. You figure you can do 15 weeks of locums at an average of 15k a week. That’s 225k extra you can bring in and still leave yourself with 11 weeks off.

Anyone taking less is a just settling.

There is no business challenge. Pay up. Hospitals make a ton in facility fees.

 

[lakersbaby]

I have a friend in Kaiser on the east coast - management definitely thinks this a temporary market bump and are counting on their pensions to handcuff people. It does seem like she has an easy gig with nice patient population and not big cases but I think she’s doing 50h a week for 500 plus benefits. They’re also pissing off the full timers bc the locums are getting $$$$ but they won’t up the full time pay. She gave up trying to get me there bc it’s just no where near enough money… I want my beauty sleep but I’m not scared of some big case badness.
I’d be interested to see the data on crna graduates going forward - I think lots of places are counting on a glut of crnas bringing the costs back down. I think they’re wrong but im just guessing

same with so. cal. Management is delusional and thinks this will pass and thus thinks its better to pay $1M+ per locums (per year) vs paying the whole region more money. Let them bleed their money and lose more full time docs and be run by locums docs/crnas and be known as the worst anesthetic care in california.

 

[cchoukal]

same with so. cal. Management is delusional and thinks this will pass and thus thinks its better to pay $1M+ per locums (per year) vs paying the whole region more money. Let them bleed their money and lose more full time docs and be run by locums docs/crnas and be known as the worst anesthetic care in california.

Surely “paying the whole region more” would cost more than a million a year?

 

[lakersbaby]

Surely “paying the whole region more” would cost more than a million a year?

$1M+ PER LOCUM DOC for a year

 

[cchoukal]

$1M+ PER LOCUM DOC for a year

WHOA! Gotta get me some of that cheddar.

 

[GassYous]

WHOA! Gotta get me some of that cheddar.

the cheddar breed jealousy

 

[deleted87051]

same with so. cal. Management is delusional and thinks this will pass and thus thinks its better to pay $1M+ per locums (per year) vs paying the whole region more money. Let them bleed their money and lose more full time docs and be run by locums docs/crnas and be known as the worst anesthetic care in california.

Part of the Kaiser physician workforce is locked in due to the pension so they’ll probably lose only a portion of their full timers. However, the per diem doctors (who are locked out of working as locums and angry about it) do preferentially work elsewhere.

 

[deleted643396]

Part of the Kaiser physician workforce is locked in due to the pension so they’ll probably lose only a portion of their full timers. The per diem doctors who are locked out of working as locums do preferentially work elsewhere.

Ah, the ol’ golden handcuff trick.

 

[narcotics999]

Part of the Kaiser physician workforce is locked in due to the pension so they’ll probably lose only a portion of their full timers. However, the per diem doctors (who are locked out of working as locums and angry about it) do preferentially work elsewhere.

One can get full medical /pension benefits at 55 after 15 yrs services. I think it is tempting for these Drs. to retire.

 

[finalpsychyear]

One can get full medical /pension benefits at 55 after 15 yrs services. I think it is tempting for these Drs. to retire.

If your field stays the way it is more or less the 30 year old who does 10-12 years locums at or near high 6 figs can call it by mid or early 40s IF they know how to save and invest. Siblings classmate year 1 fresh out of training 900k working 45-46 wks did that but also bought cars for the rents and 150k suv and some bling.

 

[aneftp]

If your field stays the way it is more or less the 30 year old who does 10-12 years locums at or near high 6 figs can call it by mid or early 40s IF they know how to save and invest. Siblings classmate year 1 fresh out of training 900k working 45-46 wks did that but also bought cars for the rents and 150k suv and some bling.

Most single anesthesiologist with no kids should be able to retire in 10 years in this current market environment doing locums.

But likely personally spending may slow them down. But u gotta enjoy some of your earn money along the way.

 

[MirrorTodd]

Most single anesthesiologist with no kids should be able to retire in 10 years in this current market environment doing locums.

But likely personally spending may slow them down. But u gotta enjoy some of your earn money along the way.

Most single anesthesiologists with no kids don't stay single or childless for 10 years. 😉

 

[sloh]

Part of the Kaiser physician workforce is locked in due to the pension so they’ll probably lose only a portion of their full timers. However, the per diem doctors (who are locked out of working as locums and angry about it) do preferentially work elsewhere.

Anyone have any info on SoCal gigs like ucla harbor, Huntington, the different St. Jude groups? If Kaiser isn’t great, what groups/employers are good for those looking for more work life balance?

 

[GaseousClay]

Anyone have any info on SoCal gigs like ucla harbor, Huntington, the different St. Jude groups? If Kaiser isn’t great, what groups/employers are good for those looking for more work life balance?

shockingly the universities UCI, UCSD are paying a lot more than kaiser and have more of the lifestyle people are looking for. i wouldnt think any of the pp groups there are lifestyle gigs unless you find a ambulatory job.

 

[deleted87051]

shockingly the universities UCI, UCSD are paying a lot more than kaiser and have more of the lifestyle people are looking for. i wouldnt think any of the pp groups there are lifestyle gigs unless you find a ambulatory job.

Base pay at the UCs are low (high 300s) but the ceiling is high if you’re willing to work. But then it’s no longer a lifestyle job. What the UCs and Kaiser offer that PPs don’t is predictability because they are ACT practices while the PPs are physician only. A lot of people do work primarily ambulatory jobs but in general they give up income. I’m sure there are exceptions.

 

[lakersbaby]

Part of the Kaiser physician workforce is locked in due to the pension so they’ll probably lose only a portion of their full timers. However, the per diem doctors (who are locked out of working as locums and angry about it) do preferentially work elsewhere.

if you are less than 10 years theres no point in staying with kaiser. the older partners maybe 15 years plus are more likely to feel the handcuff (not so golden)

 

[IRpremed]

What rates are most people seeing right now?

I’m currently working a 7-3 practice, 2 weeks a month at $500 an hour. Middle of no where but good enough money with minimal work.

I’m also working at another much more desirable location for significantly less … $280 an hour

 

[aneftp]

What rates are most people seeing right now?

I’m currently working a 7-3 practice, 2 weeks a month at $500 an hour. Middle of no where but good enough money with minimal work.

I’m also working at another much more desirable location for significantly less … $280 an hour

It’s not the rates. It’s the hours. You aren’t doing it right. Although both high rates and high hours is optimal.

If I’m traveling outside of my home area. I better be getting at least 80 preferably 120 plus hours a week if I’m away from my family

 

[dizzy21]

What rates are most people seeing right now?

I’m currently working a 7-3 practice, 2 weeks a month at $500 an hour. Middle of no where but good enough money with minimal work.

I’m also working at another much more desirable location for significantly less … $280 an hour

Coastal city. Current contact rates $375, $425, $475/hr. All agency rates and not direct. Don’t necessarily need to go to the middle of nowhere. Rates are lower in cities when one hospital system is dominant.

I haven’t found a chill place to to run up the overnight hours. One place is a busy center overnight so I said I’d passl. Maybe I should just bite the bullet and take call.

Interestingly the BFE rates I negotiated last year have fallen behind. Wonder at one point I start cutting off contracts as I can’t fulfill the time requirement people are asking for.

 

[Account1]

It’s not the rates. It’s the hours. You aren’t doing it right. Although both high rates and high hours is optimal.

If I’m traveling outside of my home area. I better be getting at least 80 preferably 120 plus hours a week if I’m away from my family

My minimum is generally 10 hours per day but the rates better be good to travel. Most places only offer daytime work in 10s or 12s, but I like to go home at night and chill. If not high rates and not consistent then it’s not worth the paperwork

 

[aneftp]

My minimum is generally 10 hours per day but the rates better be good to travel. Most places only offer daytime work in 10s or 12s, but I like to go home at night and chill. If not high rates and not consistent then it’s not worth the paperwork

Yeah. Usually it’s the w2 full timers manipulation of the schedule to take more weekday overnight and even weekend overnight calls for extra w2 cash
Making 10-15k extra for the week w2 overtime that way while keeping their overall hours the day as if they were working just mostly days with one call.

Everyone has figured how to game the system to their advantage w2 workers in short staffing situations.

 

[aneftp]

38k this week for my friend in Texas for 5 days. Light call. The homeboys are raking in 100k every 10 days in Memphis for almost a year. (they are their own agency, no third party locums agency) that’s how much agencies take off the top if u let them instead of keeping it for urself. 10k a day is standard. 12k a day is becoming the standard soon.

 

[k12balla]

38k this week for my friend in Texas for 5 days. Light call. The homeboys are raking in 100k every 10 days in Memphis for almost a year. (they are their own agency, no third party locums agency) that’s how much agencies take off the top if u let them instead of keeping it for urself. 10k a day is standard. 12k a day is becoming the standard soon.

Would you mind PM'ing the contact?

 

[arsene19]

MoCo Maryland just hit 450/hr 1099 for sleep over call. Good times.

 

[GaseousClay]

Damn us full time employees are missing out on the gold rush it seems. There’s no end in sight either.

 

[GassyDoc]

Does a place usually pay less per diem than they would a locums agency?

 

[aneftp]

Does a place usually pay less per diem than they would a locums agency?

Are u talking about w2 per diem? Vs locums 1099 rates? The answer is usual 1099 is higher than per diem w2.

But the per diem w2 docs generally get more preferred access to dates they can work since they are cheaper.

 

[aneftp]

S

Damn us full time employees are missing out on the gold rush it seems. There’s no end in sight either.

u can manipulate hours to ur advantage as full time w2.

Symbiotic relationship between full time w2 and 1099 locums. Both help out each other

Some places w2 full time locums docs work as little as 28-32 hrs during the weekdays. Often with a free day in the middle off . No calls on weekdays. And than rape the employers for an extra 6-12k on weekend. Extra pay shifts

The locums docs do all the dirty work on the weekdays

Or vice versa. Where the full time staff take the easy weeknight calls (getting pre call off early and obviously post call off off). Than let the locums 1099 docs do the damage on the weekends Friday -Monday morning. (These are the 1099 jobs me and my friends love) these are your 20-30k weekends money ball assignments.

 

[IRpremed]

S

u can manipulate hours to ur advantage as full time w2.

Symbiotic relationship between full time w2 and 1099 locums. Both help out each other

Some places w2 full time locums docs work as little as 28-32 hrs during the weekdays. Often with a free day in the middle off . No calls on weekdays. And than rape the employers for an extra 6-12k on weekend. Extra pay shifts

The locums docs do all the dirty work on the weekdays

Or vice versa. Where the full time staff take the easy weeknight calls (getting pre call off early and obviously post call off off). Than let the locums 1099 docs do the damage on the weekends Friday -Monday morning. (These are the 1099 jobs me and my friends love) these are your 20-30k weekends money ball assignments.

any idea where to find these jobs??

 

[IRpremed]

38k this week for my friend in Texas for 5 days. Light call. The homeboys are raking in 100k every 10 days in Memphis for almost a year. (they are their own agency, no third party locums agency) that’s how much agencies take off the top if u let them instead of keeping it for urself. 10k a day is standard. 12k a day is becoming the standard soon.

can you PM me the information on this group?

 

[kidthor]

MoCo Maryland just hit 450/hr 1099 for sleep over call. Good times.

Wow.

I have a license there. Tempting!!!

 

[pgg]

Does a place usually pay less per diem than they would a locums agency?

That's what I hear and it's consistent with what I've seen. Though I'm not in the locums game any more.


I've kept my credentials active at a place where I was doing PRN W-2 moonlighting a few years ago. Small community hospital, coastal NC. I haven't worked there since 2022 but their per diem rates have crept up gradually. Think they're in the neighborhood of $325/hr now but the pager call stipend isn't bad and call is super light. Their full time employees make substantially less than that.

Yesterday I got locums email for coverage there. Out of curiosity I asked the spammer what they were paying - $350/hr.

That hospital system has been really reluctant to increase their rates. It appears they, like so many administrators, are acting like this market is temporary and are happy to overpay for locums while they slow bleed permanent staff.

 

[crash2500]

That's what I hear and it's consistent with what I've seen. Though I'm not in the locums game any more.


I've kept my credentials active at a place where I was doing PRN W-2 moonlighting a few years ago. Small community hospital, coastal NC. I haven't worked there since 2022 but their per diem rates have crept up gradually. Think they're in the neighborhood of $325/hr now but the pager call stipend isn't bad and call is super light. Their full time employees make substantially less than that.

Yesterday I got locums email for coverage there. Out of curiosity I asked the spammer what they were paying - $350/hr.

That hospital system has been really reluctant to increase their rates. It appears they, like so many administrators, are acting like this market is temporary and are happy to overpay for locums while they slow bleed permanent staff.

This is the answer I want so we can cut out the middle man and go direct to get the best rate.

 

[amyl]

Don’t forget it’s also this time of year… there’s less people looking for jobs now. There are a few off cycle experienced people. Locums will be hot until the next round of new grads enters the market next summer.