Locums Market Temp Check

[Ashers]

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All I know is Milwaukee and Wisconsin. Is always looking. Must be crap show there.

They're short, but the hospitals are not willing to work with people who want flexible schedules or flexibility in cases. It doesn't seem like it's changed too much in the last few years aside from Vituity taking over the Ascension anesthesiologists and Aurora basically using Ark for most locums (if only them now).

 

[aneftp]

They're short, but the hospitals are not willing to work with people who want flexible schedules or flexibility in cases. It doesn't seem like it's changed too much in the last few years aside from Vituity taking over the Ascension anesthesiologists and Aurora basically using Ark for most locums (if only them now).

I’m telling everyone
40 hrs a week
20 weeks off
500-550k

Some type of night float system like 5p-10p beeper. That does
The trick

Or 6 (24) hr calls in 2 week period , 26 weeks off 500k

Or let cardiac docs do 7-3 plus beeper plus 26 weeks off.

My buddy who’s in management and familiar with Wisconsin (from management) view point is if they do those schedules than they gotta find people to work the regular days

I told them that’s where the older docs will fill the void 0.5 fte days. Older docs don’t want 1.0fte but will gladly take 0.5fte

U gotta be creative if stuff isn’t working.

Or just pay everyone 700k/10 weeks off/40 hrs

 

[SRYSPAC]

They're short, but the hospitals are not willing to work with people who want flexible schedules or flexibility in cases. It doesn't seem like it's changed too much in the last few years aside from Vituity taking over the Ascension anesthesiologists and Aurora basically using Ark for most locums (if only them now).

Oh well, sorry admin.

 

[james775]

On an unrelated note, why is credentialing for Locums like pulling teeth? Absolute insane amount of forms and hoops to jump through. That’s with the Locums company doing heavy lifting.

 

[aneftp]

like clockwork. Locums heat check summertime ramping up.

So just be organized and pick and choose. But most people with school age kids want summer time off.

 

[AppTrail]

yeah. Lots of docs on the 1099 trail in Florida. My friend only being offered $325hr 1099 at hca

I guess that’s ok. But it’s 1.5 hrs away from his house. So unless there is calls or tons of hours involved. It’s not worth it.

Time and distance for work

Another locums doc only has 4 shifts next month so he’s scrambling.

So if you are 100% 1099. U gotta keep ur foot in the door at multiple places. Plus it helps to not have 2 baby mommas and 5 kids and 3 different homes to pay for …. I’m just trolling my friend he got too many expenses.

I've been seeing a few of these 17 weeks on, 35 weeks off gigs popping up. If you are 100% locums, I think this is a good hedge against work slowing down. Obviously depends on the pay and workload, but recently I saw 17 weeks, 12hr shifts x7 days (around 1400 hours a year)...can't remember if its 1099 or W2. But these jobs are getting gobbled off fast.

 

[aneftp]

I've been seeing a few of these 17 weeks on, 35 weeks off gigs popping up. If you are 100% locums, I think this is a good hedge against work slowing down. Obviously depends on the pay and workload, but recently I saw 17 weeks, 12hr shifts x7 days (around 1400 hours a year)...can't remember if its 1099 or W2. But these jobs are getting gobbled off fast.

Definitely.

13 weeks off almost becoming the norm.

Places in Florida still pay 450k-500k/8 weeks off (someone post about northern Virginian paying that as well and they thought it was a good job) it’s really having to be available for work 42-44 weeks out of the year. It’s too much of a commitment these days.

The 12 hour shifts x 7 days (17 weeks) is only good for nights. That’s why people are gobbling them up. Usually pays 500k

I wouldn’t want 84 hrs of DAYTIME work for 7 days in a row. That’s brutal. 7a-7p especially Trauma centers where u are running around.

Than the night float doc comes in at 7p-7a (for 17 weeks) and gets to sleep 50% of the time especially on weekends. That’s why everyone younger docs wants those jobs. So they can work elsewhere.

Heck I’m not even young any more. My plan at my new gig is to work 7-3p side gig 1099 or even a w2 prn job I got lined up (super close by just in case I get stuck with overnight case, than roll into beeper call from home 5p-7a at full time w2 job with 20 weeks off when I’m nights float.

I can squeeze 10-15k each week more 1099 income the week I’m doing nights (10 weeks night float)

Plus l leave the 20 weeks wide open to do real 1099 work elsewhere

 

[AppTrail]

Definitely.

13 weeks off almost becoming the norm.

Places in Florida still pay 450k-500k/8 weeks off (someone post about northern Virginian paying that as well and they thought it was a good job) it’s really having to be available for work 42-44 weeks out of the year. It’s too much of a commitment these days.

The 12 hour shifts x 7 days (17 weeks) is only good for nights. That’s why people are gobbling them up. Usually pays 500k

I wouldn’t want 84 hrs of DAYTIME work for 7 days in a row. That’s brutal. 7a-7p especially Trauma centers where u are running around.

Than the night float doc comes in at 7p-7a (for 17 weeks) and gets to sleep 50% of the time especially on weekends. That’s why everyone younger docs wants those jobs. So they can work elsewhere.

Heck I’m not even young any more. My plan at my new gig is to work 7-3p side gig 1099 or even a w2 prn job I got lined up (super close by just in case I get stuck with overnight case, than roll into beeper call from home 5p-7a at full time w2 job with 20 weeks off when I’m nights float.

I can squeeze 10-15k each week more 1099 income the week I’m doing nights (10 weeks night float)

Plus l leave the 20 weeks wide open to do real 1099 work elsewhere

The trend that I’m noticing and this may be what it has been for a while now but:
-Hospital in middle of nowhere, typically 4 ORs +/- OB. One doc on at a time. 3 docs in rotation so 2 docs always off. Assuming very light call back overnight.

If hospital has OB and/or gets night cases, then either CRNA in house does OB with MD backup. Or 3 doc rotation plus 2 night float docs. Hospitals/agencies know this is how they get people to come to rural areas, docs get minimum 26weeks off, everyone wins

 

[pgg]

I've been seeing a few of these 17 weeks on, 35 weeks off gigs popping up. If you are 100% locums, I think this is a good hedge against work slowing down. Obviously depends on the pay and workload, but recently I saw 17 weeks, 12hr shifts x7 days (around 1400 hours a year)...can't remember if its 1099 or W2. But these jobs are getting gobbled off fast.

7 AM - 7 PM for 7 days is a miserable, miserable week unless it's actually a leisurely 7 AM - 3 PM with some pager time taking it to 7 PM.

84 hours is no joke. Even worse if some of those weeks are a night float 7 PM - 7 AM gig.

And then if you spend a significant portion of the "off" weeks doing locums ... recipe for burnout. 1400 hours from your 7x12 gig plus another 1000-1500 on the locums side starts pushing 3000 hours/year which is no way to live. Lots of money, sure. But you're earning it.

5-10 years ago people were grinding hard like that to make $600-700K.

Maybe the more sensible plan these days is to make your $600-700K working 45 per week and sleeping in your own bed. When the alternative is killing yourself to scratch another $300K (taxed at the top marginal rate) I really don't understand the mindset. Spend a little less, live a lot better (and longer).

 

[RedandBlack7]

7 AM - 7 PM for 7 days is a miserable, miserable week unless it's actually a leisurely 7 AM - 3 PM with some pager time taking it to 7 PM.

84 hours is no joke. Even worse if some of those weeks are a night float 7 PM - 7 AM gig.

And then if you spend a significant portion of the "off" weeks doing locums ... recipe for burnout. 1400 hours from your 7x12 gig plus another 1000-1500 on the locums side starts pushing 3000 hours/year which is no way to live. Lots of money, sure. But you're earning it.

5-10 years ago people were grinding hard like that to make $600-700K.

Maybe the more sensible plan these days is to make your $600-700K working 45 per week and sleeping in your own bed. When the alternative is killing yourself to scratch another $300K (taxed at the top marginal rate) I really don't understand the mindset. Spend a little less, live a lot better (and longer).

Depends on the jobs. Some of these night float jobs are from home so it’s not 84 hours in house working.

Some locums jobs are not super demanding either. Just supervision not that strenuous.

 

[pgg]

Depends on the jobs. Some of these night float jobs are from home so it’s not 84 hours in house working.

Some locums jobs are not super demanding either. Just supervision not that strenuous.

Yeah obviously the devil's in the details and intensity, I made a point of mentioning that, but

1) you're kidding yourself if you think pushing 3000 hours per year isn't a grind no matter how it's arranged

2) "just supervision" is riskier and more demanding than solo work, unless you're one of those **** dinosaurs who "supervises" from the lounge or just signs charts as a liability sponge

 

[AppTrail]

7 AM - 7 PM for 7 days is a miserable, miserable week unless it's actually a leisurely 7 AM - 3 PM with some pager time taking it to 7 PM.

84 hours is no joke. Even worse if some of those weeks are a night float 7 PM - 7 AM gig.

And then if you spend a significant portion of the "off" weeks doing locums ... recipe for burnout. 1400 hours from your 7x12 gig plus another 1000-1500 on the locums side starts pushing 3000 hours/year which is no way to live. Lots of money, sure. But you're earning it.

5-10 years ago people were grinding hard like that to make $600-700K.

Maybe the more sensible plan these days is to make your $600-700K working 45 per week and sleeping in your own bed. When the alternative is killing yourself to scratch another $300K (taxed at the top marginal rate) I really don't understand the mindset. Spend a little less, live a lot better (and longer).

don't get me wrong, the pay would have to make sense...something like a 17-week on, 35week off W2 gig would still need to pay at least 500k (maybe a little less if it it's a super slow hospital where you're done by 1pm everyday and are on pager the rest of the day).

That's still hitting locums-type hourly pay as a W2. Plus benefits and a guaranteed full time job as a base if locums temporarily dries up. Obviously no job is guaranteed beyond the typical 90-120day termination clause and you may be fighting for prime weeks off.

 

[aneftp]

don't get me wrong, the pay would have to make sense...something like a 17-week on, 35week off W2 gig would still need to pay at least 500k (maybe a little less if it it's a super slow hospital where you're done by 1pm everyday and are on pager the rest of the day).

That's still hitting locums-type hourly pay as a W2. Plus benefits and a guaranteed full time job as a base if locums temporarily dries up. Obviously no job is guaranteed beyond the typical 90-120day termination clause and you may be fighting for prime weeks off.

Most of the jobs with 20 plus weeks off these days that get gobbled up quickly pay around 500k (give or take). Plus the hours are roughly 40 hours a week the weeks you work. Even when you include the beeper hours. Beeper hours is where docs really undervalue their time and worth.
The job I'm gonna to take over my 30 weeks off job (30 weeks off off which entails solo OB coverage for 72 hours weekends) every 5 weeks...OB volume is doubled the last 4 months due to competing hospital closing down. Which is one of my reasons. Went from 1 delivery a day, maybe 2 to having 3-4 deliveries a day. Yesterday had 6 including 2 c/s. That's not high volume OB but high enough where its getting taxing to cover multiple days in a row, especially calling in crna for the OR cases as well. CRNAs can help in weekday daytime, but it's just doc only at night and weekends for ob.

So the new job is 20 weeks, working 7-12p/1pm (till lunches get done), next day 7-5p, and alternate for 2 weeks. That's around 40 hours with no calls.

One night beeper 5pm-7am (cases usually done around 9-10pm), go home and sleep. do it for 7 days, with 7 days off.

So the devil is always in the details like PGG says.

No one is taking the 7a-7p level 1 daytime job (7 days a week job) with 26 weeks off because you are really working the equivalent of 2 weeks anyways (84 hours) heavy case load. But the 4 docs that split the 7p-7a night float trauma job is a way better deal. They do this for 2 weeks and split it with 26 weeks off. for 500K.

So that's the catch-22 hospitals and management companies face. How to evenly divide up the work load because the night float is by far the better deal.

 

[RedandBlack7]

Yeah obviously the devil's in the details and intensity, I made a point of mentioning that, but

1) you're kidding yourself if you think pushing 3000 hours per year isn't a grind no matter how it's arranged

2) "just supervision" is riskier and more demanding than solo work, unless you're one of those **** dinosaurs who "supervises" from the lounge or just signs charts as a liability sponge

If you are preopping the patient, doing the lines and blocks, helping with induction and monitoring vitals on epic throughout for 2-3 rooms, it still allots for down time

 

[aneftp]

There is national amc with their own 1099 wholly own subsidiary trying to offer $300/hr 1099 in a facility they have exclusive contract

But hospital is paying 100% locums costs. So independent smaller locums companies are offering $350/hr for the same hospital

That’s how shady the locums 1099 business is.

So hospitals willing to pay global $500/hr per locums doc. And the wholly own subsidiary of the large amc who already has the contract is trying to pocket $200/hr while the smaller locums company is pocketing $150/hr

 

[Dawkter]

In the past the benefits at larger institutions used to make up for the salary difference with locums. This made locums appealing to physicians who were covered by their spouses with health insurance etc.

In the current market going 1099 (tax advantage) + paying for your own health insurance seems to make a lot of sense while still offering far more flexibility than that of a hospital/academic institution employee. This is an appealing way to work especially for Gen Z.

 

[dizzy21]

In the past the benefits at larger institutions used to make up for the salary difference with locums. This made locums appealing to physicians who were covered by their spouses with health insurance etc.

In the current market going 1099 (tax advantage) + paying for your own health insurance seems to make a lot of sense while still offering far more flexibility than that of a hospital/academic institution employee.

I put away over 200k pretax using cash balance plans and solo 401k contributions. Along with business deductions even if I had to purchase my own health insurance It’s very difficult to beat the favorable tax treatment of a business owner in the current market. If the locums market were to tank for some reason employment would become more attractive.

For now I will make hay.

 

[aneftp]

In the past the benefits at larger institutions used to make up for the salary difference with locums. This made locums appealing to physicians who were covered by their spouses with health insurance etc.

In the current market going 1099 (tax advantage) + paying for your own health insurance seems to make a lot of sense while still offering far more flexibility than that of a hospital/academic institution employee. This is an appealing way to work especially for Gen Z.

Yes. But it depends on job market.
Locums much harder to do in bigger cities especially around 2014-2018 as amc buyout peaked in 2017 with KKR purchase of Envison.

Academics jobs still good for those who want tons of flexibility with child care.

What’s great for everyone these days is they have choices. Choice to go x place as locums or full time.
X choice to make a ton. X choice to even do w2 work as part time.

 

[aneftp]

I put away over 200k pretax using cash balance plans and solo 401k contributions. Along with business deductions even if I had to purchase my own health insurance It’s very difficult to beat the favorable tax treatment of a business owner in the current market. If the locums market were to tank for some reason employment would become more attractive.

For now I will make hay.

As long as you are making hay, paying 30k plus in healthcare premiums for a family of 4-5 is not a big deal.

Self employed is great.

 

[CubsDynasty]

Or better yet find the full time, local job that allows you to choose 1099 or W2, a lot more of that nowadays

 

[Dawkter]

Is everyone noticing a decrease in lucrative locums opportunities in their area and an improvement in W2 full time job offers?

 

[Anew4215]

comphealth told me recently that they have no jobs. that's one of the biggest companies.

 

[cchoukal]

I don’t know, I just picked up a new local venue for a good rate in a desirable city, so there must still be some meat out there.

 

[Guillemot]

comphealth told me recently that they have no jobs. that's one of the biggest companies.

It sounds like you have limited geographic criteria for jobs you would accept and/or be eligible.

 

[aneftp]

It sounds like you have limited geographic criteria for jobs you would accept and/or be eligible.

Correct. There are still tons of 1099 jobs if u are willing to travel.

Life is always about compromises. People don’t want to drive more than 30 min plus make big money. Locums is just the cycle of life. Especially in big cities.

I had a conversation with one of my crna friends. She’s complaining about the same thing “no 1099 jobs” in our area. I told her….i hooked u up with a full time 1099 gig that pays market rate ($200/hrs for crna with 40 hr gurantee). Than she tells me

1. She wants to work certain days when she wants to and have Fridays (they were willing to bend and give her 2 Fridays off a month)
2. She thinks 50 min is too far to drive
3. So now she’s stuck making $175/hr w2 lol but her commute is 25 min. Like seriously another 25 min isn’t gonna to kill you to make extra money.

Idiot.

 

[aneftp]

comphealth told me recently that they have no jobs. that's one of the biggest companies.

lol. Comp health just called me for gig near Asheville and St. Louis and southeast Virginia just in our 2 min conversation yesterday.

What are u looking for?

 

[SRYSPAC]

Correct. There are still tons of 1099 jobs if u are willing to travel.

Life is always about compromises. People don’t want to drive more than 30 min plus make big money. Locums is just the cycle of life. Especially in big cities.

I had a conversation with one of my crna friends. She’s complaining about the same thing “no 1099 jobs” in our area. I told her….i hooked u up with a full time 1099 gig that pays market rate ($200/hrs for crna with 40 hr gurantee). Than she tells me

1. She wants to work certain days when she wants to and have Fridays (they were willing to bend and give her 2 Fridays off a month)
2. She thinks 50 min is too far to drive
3. So now she’s stuck making $175/hr w2 lol but her commute is 25 min. Like seriously another 25 min isn’t gonna to kill you to make extra money.

Idiot.

I think "idiot" is a bit strong; I don't think there's anything wrong with having particular preferences (just like the docs I know in FL that continue to work pre/post call for CRNA rates, which I wholeheartedly disagree with, but they have their own reasons for doing so)

HOWEVER, I do take issue with the same folks that aren't willing to travel for more pay or more flexibility and ALSO complain about their current setup.

 

[aneftp]

I think "idiot" is a bit strong; I don't think there's anything wrong with having particular preferences (just like the docs I know I FL that continue to work pre/post call for CRNA rates.

HOWEVER, I do take issue with the same folks that aren't willing to travel for more pay or more flexibility and ALSO complain about their current setup.

Well I won’t ever work post call or on my vacation at my w2 job unless there is an inherent gentlemen’s agreement I’m working $300/hr w2 and I’m first out. $2400 for 3-4 hrs of work w2 is the only way to make it worth it for me.

But I’m at a different stage in my financial life than others. I have the countdown clock at 32 months left and want to get out of the rat race by age 54

 

[ToKingdomCome]

Well I won’t ever work post call or on my vacation at my w2 job unless there is an inherent gentlemen’s agreement I’m working $300/hr w2 and I’m first out. $2400 for 3-4 hrs of work w2 is the only way to make it worth it for me.

But I’m at a different stage in my financial life than others. I have the countdown clock at 32 months left and want to get out of the rat race by age 54

How much is in your portfolio

 

[dannyboy1]

Well I won’t ever work post call or on my vacation at my w2 job unless there is an inherent gentlemen’s agreement I’m working $300/hr w2 and I’m first out. $2400 for 3-4 hrs of work w2 is the only way to make it worth it for me.

But I’m at a different stage in my financial life than others. I have the countdown clock at 32 months left and want to get out of the rat race by age 54

you are kind of an outlier. most of the docs in their 50s and 60s at my shop don’t seem near retirement. They don’t take call anymore but so long as the money is decent they will continue to put in their 40 hours a week for the foreseeable future. That’s why I’m so skeptical about the “anesthesia shortage” because there are a lot of older docs. These guys are going nowhere.

 

[aneftp]

How much is in your portfolio

5 mil plus a small pension plus the 2.3 mil house. It’s enough. I can cruise. This is all play money. Kids 529 and college prepaid taken can off.
8-10 mil in 7 years. That enough

I don’t need 20 million like many of these people.

Figure that 5 will be 7 in 3 years anyways.

 

[BLADEMDA]

you are kind of an outlier. most of the docs in their 50s and 60s at my shop don’t seem near retirement. They don’t take call anymore but so long as the money is decent they will continue to put in their 40 hours a week for the foreseeable future. That’s why I’m so skeptical about the “anesthesia shortage” because there are a lot of older docs. These guys are going nowhere.

The shortage is real because a lot of older anesthesiologists want to work 40 hours or less per week when these same people were working 60 hours just a few years ago. Also, many don't want to take call or work nights/weekends. A good percentage of new grads are lifestyle oriented and will shun jobs with too many hours over 40. If you add those factors together the shortage is real.

 

[dannyboy1]

5 mil plus a small pension plus the 2.3 mil house. It’s enough. I can cruise. This is all play money. Kids 529 and college prepaid taken can off.
8-10 mil in 7 years. That enough

I don’t need 20 million like many of these people.

Figure that 5 will be 7 in 3 years anyways.

Definitely enough to pay the bills. What are you going to do with all your time though? You just gonna quit cold turkey? Why not just get a part time gig.? It’s not like anesthesia is particularly draining or that much of a “rat race”. (Hell, my shop pretty much looks like a retirement home, bunch of old guys sitting around and yelling at the TV while signing charts). While I don’t live for work I recognize the need for some structure in your life and a reason to get out of bed….

 

[BLADEMDA]

Definitely enough to pay the bills. What are you going to do with all your time though? You just gonna quit cold turkey? Why not just get a part time gig.? It’s not like anesthesia is particularly draining or that much of a “rat race”. (Hell, my shop pretty much looks like a retirement home, bunch of old guys sitting around and yelling at the TV while signing charts). While I don’t live for work I recognize the need for some structure in your life and a reason to get out of bed….

That is the reason I keep working despite reaching financial independence. I like being useful and I would rather work a little to stay sharp than do home projects all day. I also use the money to help my grown kids live a better life. My motto is "better to give from a warm heart than a cold hand."

 

[aneftp]

Definitely enough to pay the bills. What are you going to do with all your time though? You just gonna quit cold turkey? Why not just get a part time gig.? It’s not like anesthesia is particularly draining or that much of a “rat race”. (Hell, my shop pretty much looks like a retirement home, bunch of old guys sitting around and yelling at the TV while signing charts). While I don’t live for work I recognize the need for some structure in your life and a reason to get out of bed….

No more full time. Just 2-3 days a week. Shockingly u can still make 250k easy just doing some per diem stuff. But I don’t be tied down to a w2 job. But my w2 job is pretty chill.

Most docs who work in their 60s are bored. I keep myself busy.

Will I stop cold? No. I don’t think I will stop cold. A lot can change in 3 years. But i never envision myself working past 45 either. Than 50.

I don’t think i will live long anyways. Just crazy weird family history of cancer. No heart disease. Weird stuff that causes deaths.

 

[pgg]

I still get several spam emails, texts, and cold calls about jobs, every day.

Just this morning -

Cardiac job. $425/h 8 guaranteed, $475/h OT, all solo work. 10 miles from where I used to live.

Another vague "couple facilities" looking for long term full time locums.

Another general job, mixed cases, 1-2 wks/month ongoing.

No idea if these are desirable or **** jobs. I am not looking for extra work, but it seems to still be out there.

 

[SRYSPAC]

No more full time. Just 2-3 days a week. Shockingly u can still make 250k easy just doing some per diem stuff. But I don’t be tied down to a w2 job. But my w2 job is pretty chill.

Most docs who work in their 60s are bored. I keep myself busy.

Will I stop cold? No. I don’t think I will stop cold. A lot can change in 3 years. But i never envision myself working past 45 either. Than 50.

I don’t think i will live long anyways. Just crazy weird family history of cancer. No heart disease. Weird stuff that causes deaths.

Yes, we are blessed to be in a specialty where it's easy to make anywhere between $3-500K easily AND have schedule flexibility, without the traditional call taking position with multiple weekends and holidays required per year.

 

[nycitygas]

5 mil plus a small pension plus the 2.3 mil house. It’s enough. I can cruise. This is all play money. Kids 529 and college prepaid taken can off.
8-10 mil in 7 years. That enough

I don’t need 20 million like many of these people.

Figure that 5 will be 7 in 3 years anyways.

How old are you?

 

[finalpsychyear]

5 mil plus a small pension plus the 2.3 mil house. It’s enough. I can cruise. This is all play money. Kids 529 and college prepaid taken can off.
8-10 mil in 7 years. That enough

I don’t need 20 million like many of these people.

Figure that 5 will be 7 in 3 years anyways.

you are sitting pretty with a paid off 2.3m house !

The thing is for the next young gas doc to buy and pay a mortage on that house or a similar one with these interest rates and on 2.3m Its going to be tough. Im guessing your house has doubled in value so it was maybe just under 1m when you bought it and you have a sub 3% mortage.

I'll keep renting till the housing crash happens. We are due in the next 18-24 mo.

 

[Anew4215]

I don't know why the comphealth recruiter said that to me either, maybe she was just thinking about my preferences.

I noticed a # of 1099 gigs out there though are on the "open market" per se for all locums like the VA one and some western NY ones. I'd seriously consider the western New York one right now, the rate looks nice, but I'm dreading the cold and don't know why some sites there seem to always be looking even if they're not that isolated.

 

[aneftp]

How old are you?

51

 

[pgg]

I'll keep renting till the housing crash happens. We are due in the next 18-24 mo.

Why do you think a crash is imminent?

 

[dizzy21]

comphealth told me recently that they have no jobs. that's one of the biggest companies.

That’s not true, I just spoke with them a week ago and they had positions

 

[narcotics999]

you are sitting pretty with a paid off 2.3m house !

The thing is for the next young gas doc to buy and pay a mortage on that house or a similar one with these interest rates and on 2.3m Its going to be tough. Im guessing your house has doubled in value so it was maybe just under 1m when you bought it and you have a sub 3% mortage.

I'll keep renting till the housing crash happens. We are due in the next 18-24 mo.

Why do you think the housing market will crash? It may dip a bit if the stock market crashes.

 

[anonperson]

Why do you think the housing market will crash? It may dip a bit if the stock market crashes.

There won't be a massive housing crash.

I keep hearing that there is a huge housing shortage in the United States.

If so, why would there be a crash anytime soon?

Maybe $hitboxes in areas with bad schools will take a hit.

The places that most physicians want to live in ( and most people to be honest), single family homes in middle/upper middle class areas with good schools, are not getting cheaper anytime soon.

 

[aneftp]

There won't be a massive housing crash.

I keep hearing that there is a huge housing shortage in the United States.

If so, why would there be a crash anytime soon?

Maybe $hitboxes in areas with bad schools will take a hit.

The places that most physicians want to live in ( and most people to be honest), single family homes in middle/upper middle class areas with good schools, are not getting cheaper anytime soon.

Correct.
1. Tons of over building from 2004-2007
2. Shadier home loans to consumers (negative amortization loans, interest only loans). Those loans have a place in the finance world to doctors and lawyers and other professionals. But u can’t sell those loans to people to people who don’t have real earning potential.

Modern history times showed 10%-15% housing crash in 1989-1991 in some areas like wash dc and San Diego due to military cuts with the Cold War ending. Took almost one decade to fully recover.

Than 2008-2011 housing crash

Of note no govt intervention 1989 and housing stabilized quicker

Govt intervention (mortgage and forgiveness act 1099 cancellation of debt( in 2007-2016 made housing crash worst.

Sometimes u gotta let things work itself out without govt help.

 

[finalpsychyear]

Why do you think the housing market will crash? It may dip a bit if the stock market crashes.

larger corrections happen in all markets. Housing is on some 18 year cycle historically. Not saying its like 2008 level. Ive already seen my neighbordhood go from a sellers market to buyers market esp in the last 6-12 mo. No houses available to now getting them below selling price. Add any type of actual recession we get in the stock market i'd bet we get a decent correction in the next 12-24 months in market and job losses you will see even higher inventory. Either way im renting month to month with no rent increases planned and probably paying 2k less a month vs a mortage for the same place.

 

[finalpsychyear]

No more full time. Just 2-3 days a week. Shockingly u can still make 250k easy just doing some per diem stuff. But I don’t be tied down to a w2 job. But my w2 job is pretty chill.

Most docs who work in their 60s are bored. I keep myself busy.

Will I stop cold? No. I don’t think I will stop cold. A lot can change in 3 years. But i never envision myself working past 45 either. Than 50.

I don’t think i will live long anyways. Just crazy weird family history of cancer. No heart disease. Weird stuff that causes deaths.

How do you define when someone or you can safely retire. 3% rule based on liquid portfolio plus 1-2 years of cash living expenses?
Maybe thats extreme as most push 3.5-4% liquid portfolio as pretty safe.

 

[aneftp]

How do you define when someone or you can safely retire. 3% rule based on liquid portfolio plus 1-2 years of cash living expenses?
Maybe thats extreme as most push 3.5-4% liquid portfolio as pretty safe.

There are no rules anymore Becuase everyone living standard is different.

All depends on ur spending habits. And how much u want to leave the kids or loved ones.

I spend 50k a year on vacation. Another guy may only spend 20k.

You are thing too much into this. It’s very simple.

Unless u got some wife of 31 years and net worth over 18.5 million who likes to spend 10k a month on frivolous things. You will be fine.

 

[finalpsychyear]

There are no rules anymore Becuase everyone living standard is different.

All depends on ur spending habits. And how much u want to leave the kids or loved ones.

I spend 50k a year on vacation. Another guy may only spend 20k.

You are thing too much into this. It’s very simple.

Unless u got some wife of 31 years and net worth over 18.5 million who likes to spend 10k a month on frivolous things. You will be fine.

your right i do think too much into this. Im a bit paranoid. Currently im considering 3% on half of liquid portfolio. Also understand that we are talking about a young retiree lets use 45-50 yo as age range. Days and weeks i don't work i am a full time tennis player loving it and never get bored. My passion meter for medicine is on empty and the yellow fuel light is on. This is with me working 95% from home 8a-7pm M-F, 8 weeks off in 2025 thus far.