Looking to apply DO, are there any red flags at the following schools?

[meijihellopanda]

---

Members do not see this ad.

the schools I am looking at right now are as follows:

• PCOM PA
• NSUKPCOM
• KCUMB
• Rocky Vista
• Rowan
• Des Moines
• OKState
• MSUCOM
• WesternU
• Campbell

I know a lot of these schools have heavy in-state bias and I would like to apply to them regardless, but is there anything wrong with the quality of the school? Things I would consider red flags are spread out rotations, dress code (or any weird rules in general), or anything else that could come to mind as a potential issue. I think all of these schools should be ok from my searching through SDN, but it never hurts to ask. Thanks in advance!

 

[Sky138]

Larry Nassar

 

[Deecee2DO]

the schools I am looking at right now are as follows:

• PCOM PA
• NSUKPCOM
• KCUMB
• Rocky Vista
• Rowan
• Des Moines
• OKState
• MSUCOM
• WesternU
• Campbell

I know a lot of these schools have heavy in-state bias and I would like to apply to them regardless, but is there anything wrong with the quality of the school? Things I would consider red flags are spread out rotations, dress code (or any weird rules in general), or anything else that could come to mind as a potential issue. I think all of these schools should be ok from my searching through SDN, but it never hurts to ask. Thanks in advance!

MSU (nassar) and NSU (board pass rates). All the others are great DO programs. KCU, Des moines and OKstate have insane matches. if you can net one of those schools if youre applying DO then youre golden

 

[deleted859689]

the schools I am looking at right now are as follows:

• PCOM PA
• NSUKPCOM
• KCUMB
• Rocky Vista
• Rowan
• Des Moines
• OKState
• MSUCOM
• WesternU
• Campbell

I know a lot of these schools have heavy in-state bias and I would like to apply to them regardless, but is there anything wrong with the quality of the school? Things I would consider red flags are spread out rotations, dress code (or any weird rules in general), or anything else that could come to mind as a potential issue. I think all of these schools should be ok from my searching through SDN, but it never hurts to ask. Thanks in advance!

Campbell has mandatory dress code and attendance.

 

[Deecee2DO]

Campbell has mandatory dress code and attendance.

Forgot about this. Bigtime red flag. Avoid mandatory class like the plague OP

 

[meijihellopanda]

MSU (nassar) and NSU (board pass rates). All the others are great DO programs

NSU isnt a problem as its the better DO school in my state, but does Nassar impact the school in any way? I originally had MSUCOM on my list because I was told they had many in-house residencies, but would the Nassar thing impact matching? I'm not tryna be an ass, im just genuinely curious. Thanks!

Campbell has mandatory dress code and attendance.

OOP that's off the list, thanks!

 

[Deecee2DO]

NSU isnt a problem as its the better DO school in my state, but does Nassar impact the school in any way? I originally had MSUCOM on my list because I was told they had many in-house residencies, but would the Nassar thing impact matching? I'm not tryna be an ass, im just genuinely curious. Thanks!


OOP that's off the list, thanks!

I just dont think its a good idea just because of the stigma. Why go there when you could go somewhere else thats just as good. Unless youre from Michigan chances of you getting accepted there are pretty slim. they favor in-state like crazy. I wouldnt go to NSU with their board pass history recently right @Goro ?

 

[Sky138]

Would you want to attend a school where sexual predation by faculty was a thing? It might not impact your residency prospects but remember, you have to live there for 4 years. If it turns out the school atmosphere is still toxic, what would you do?

 

[deleted859689]

NSU isnt a problem as its the better DO school in my state, but does Nassar impact the school in any way? I originally had MSUCOM on my list because I was told they had many in-house residencies, but would the Nassar thing impact matching? I'm not tryna be an ass, im just genuinely curious. Thanks!


OOP that's off the list, thanks!

It also has 100% match rate and great board scores for both USMLE and COMLEX. They also have their own residency programs which include general surgery, derm, and their own cardiology fellowship.

Residency - Graduate Medical Education - Medicine - Campbell University

Campbell's Osteopathic Medicine residencies emphasize practice-based learning, evidence-based medicine, professionalism, and effective communication.

medicine.campbell.edu

COMLEX-USA Level 1
2016-2020 NBOME Cycle Data
First-Time Pass Rate & Mean Scores

COMLEX-USA LEVEL 1	NBOME CYCLE 05/01/2016-04/30/2017	NBOME CYCLE 05/01/2017-04/30/2018	NBOME CYCLE 05/01/2018-04/30/2019	NBOME CYCLE 05/01/2019-04/30/2020	FOUR-YEAR AVERAGE
CUSOM First-Time Pass Rate	92.72%	99.35%	98.73%	98.03%	97.24%
National First-Time Pass Rate	92.68%	95.95%	92.99%	94.45%	94.03%
CUSOM Mean	527.77	561.48	564.53	555.77	552.59
National Mean	519.52	557.81	526.00	535.44	534.72

Four-Year Score Distribution

SCORE RANGE	PERCENTAGE OF CUSOM STUDENTS
700-799	3.73%
600-699	24.03%
500-599	45.29%
400-499	24.19%
<400	2.76%

USMLE Step 1
2015-2019 USMLE Annual Data
First-Time Pass Rate

USMLE STEP 1	2015	2016	2017	2018	2019	FIVE-YEAR AVERAGE
CUSOM First-Time Pass Rate	100.00%	94.00%	99.00%	99.00%	100.00%	98.63%
National First-Time Pass Rate	95.00%	95.00%	96.00%	96.00%	97.00%	95.80% (five-year average)

 

[Sky138]

Also Michigan state’s OOS tuition is astronomical and that’s coming from someone who won’t have any loans

 

[Deecee2DO]

It also has 100% match rate and great board scores for both USMLE and COMLEX. They also have their own residency programs which include general surgery, derm, and their own cardiology fellowship.

Residency - Graduate Medical Education - Medicine - Campbell University

Campbell's Osteopathic Medicine residencies emphasize practice-based learning, evidence-based medicine, professionalism, and effective communication.

medicine.campbell.edu

COMLEX-USA Level 1
2016-2020 NBOME Cycle Data
First-Time Pass Rate & Mean Scores

COMLEX-USA LEVEL 1	NBOME CYCLE 05/01/2016-04/30/2017	NBOME CYCLE 05/01/2017-04/30/2018	NBOME CYCLE 05/01/2018-04/30/2019	NBOME CYCLE 05/01/2019-04/30/2020	FOUR-YEAR AVERAGE
CUSOM First-Time Pass Rate	92.72%	99.35%	98.73%	98.03%	97.24%
National First-Time Pass Rate	92.68%	95.95%	92.99%	94.45%	94.03%
CUSOM Mean	527.77	561.48	564.53	555.77	552.59
National Mean	519.52	557.81	526.00	535.44	534.72

Four-Year Score Distribution

SCORE RANGE	PERCENTAGE OF CUSOM STUDENTS
700-799	3.73%
600-699	24.03%
500-599	45.29%
400-499	24.19%
<400	2.76%

USMLE Step 1
2015-2019 USMLE Annual Data
First-Time Pass Rate

USMLE STEP 1	2015	2016	2017	2018	2019	FIVE-YEAR AVERAGE
CUSOM First-Time Pass Rate	100.00%	94.00%	99.00%	99.00%	100.00%	98.63%
National First-Time Pass Rate	95.00%	95.00%	96.00%	96.00%	97.00%	95.80% (five-year average)

I wont deny Campbell is a phenomenal DO school however mandatory attendance is insanity. I wouldnt tell my worst enemy to go to a med school with mandatory attendance and dress code

 

[deleted859689]

I wont deny Campbell is a phenomenal DO school however mandatory attendance is insanity. I wouldnt tell my worst enemy to go to a med school with mandatory attendance and dress code

Word down the grape vine is that the dress code is getting very lax and you can wear headphones in class and do your own thing if your want. You can miss one class a week (you have to attend a certain % of classes) or save it for when you don't feel like going to class.

I agree though, it's not for everyone and can be a deal-breaker.

 

[meijihellopanda]

It also has 100% match rate and great board scores for both USMLE and COMLEX. They also have their own residency programs which include general surgery, derm, and their own cardiology fellowship.

Residency - Graduate Medical Education - Medicine - Campbell University

Campbell's Osteopathic Medicine residencies emphasize practice-based learning, evidence-based medicine, professionalism, and effective communication.

medicine.campbell.edu

COMLEX-USA Level 1
2016-2020 NBOME Cycle Data
First-Time Pass Rate & Mean Scores

COMLEX-USA LEVEL 1	NBOME CYCLE 05/01/2016-04/30/2017	NBOME CYCLE 05/01/2017-04/30/2018	NBOME CYCLE 05/01/2018-04/30/2019	NBOME CYCLE 05/01/2019-04/30/2020	FOUR-YEAR AVERAGE
CUSOM First-Time Pass Rate	92.72%	99.35%	98.73%	98.03%	97.24%
National First-Time Pass Rate	92.68%	95.95%	92.99%	94.45%	94.03%
CUSOM Mean	527.77	561.48	564.53	555.77	552.59
National Mean	519.52	557.81	526.00	535.44	534.72

Four-Year Score Distribution

SCORE RANGE	PERCENTAGE OF CUSOM STUDENTS
700-799	3.73%
600-699	24.03%
500-599	45.29%
400-499	24.19%
<400	2.76%

USMLE Step 1
2015-2019 USMLE Annual Data
First-Time Pass Rate

USMLE STEP 1	2015	2016	2017	2018	2019	FIVE-YEAR AVERAGE
CUSOM First-Time Pass Rate	100.00%	94.00%	99.00%	99.00%	100.00%	98.63%
National First-Time Pass Rate	95.00%	95.00%	96.00%	96.00%	97.00%	95.80% (five-year average)

Oh wow, I didn't know that CUSOM had so many fantastic programs! That being said, however, I do not think I could do any schooling at a location that requires attendance since I have heard (both anecdotally and online) that most learning happens from home. Thank you for the information though! I might have to think about adding it back to my list though because in-house general surgery is honestly pretty enticing.

 

[Damson]

just curious, nassar was from MSU's osteo department - would you guys make the same recommendation to avoid MSU Human Medicine (allopathic)?

 

[Sky138]

just curious, nassar was from MSU's osteo department - would you guys make the same recommendation to avoid MSU Human Medicine (allopathic)?

That’s a little tricky. Personally, I’d still apply simply because it’s a decent md school but if you have other options I’d go elsewhere

 

[meijihellopanda]

I just dont think its a good idea just because of the stigma. Why go there when you could go somewhere else thats just as good. Unless youre from Michigan chances of you getting accepted there are pretty slim. they favor in-state like crazy. I wouldnt go to NSU with their board pass history recently right @Goro ?

While all the other schools are quality schools with in house residencies or similar connections, NSU is more about staying close to home, and I feel as though I can succeed at NSU! MSU is a total gamble though, I agree.

Would you want to attend a school where sexual predation by faculty was a thing? It might not impact your residency prospects but remember, you have to live there for 4 years. If it turns out the school atmosphere is still toxic, what would you do?

That is true, I did not consider the school's culture. Thank you for pointing that out!

 

[Deecee2DO]

While all the other schools are quality schools with in house residencies or similar connections, NSU is more about staying close to home, and I feel as though I can succeed at NSU! MSU is a total gamble though, I agree.


That is true, I did not consider the school's culture. Thank you for pointing that out!

I mean it sounds like youre not hearing what you want to hear about NSU since youre defending it. Im just being frank with you which was the purpose of this thread. I personally dont think its the best decision compared to the other schools on that list

 

[Damson]

quality and consistency of program > effects of close-to-home

 

[Osminog]

The notion that MSUCOM might have a “toxic culture” or that there is a “stigma” associated with being a student there is laughable and downright asinine. The despicable actions of Dr. Nassar and the suffering that he willfully inflicted on his own patients aren’t somehow an indictment of the entire institution’s academic and ethical standards. Virtually every large, established medical school has at least a few students, faculty members, or alumni who have been caught doing extremely unethical things. Let’s not judge schools on the basis of guilt by association.

With all of that being said, the out-of-state tuition at MSUCOM is absurdly high. That’s why I chose not to apply there when I was applying to medical schools.

 

[Sky138]

The notion that MSUCOM might have a “toxic culture” or that there is a “stigma” associated with being a student there is laughable and downright asinine. The despicable actions of Dr. Nassar and the suffering that he willfully inflicted on his own patients aren’t somehow an indictment of the entire institution’s academic and ethical standards. Virtually every large, established medical school has at least a few students, faculty members, or alumni who have been caught doing extremely unethical things. Let’s not judge schools on the basis of guilt by association.

With all of that being said, the out-of-state tuition at MSUCOM is absurdly high. That’s why I chose not to apply there when I was applying to medical schools.

How the Larry Nassar scandal has affected others

A judge’s dismissal of criminal charges against former Michigan State University President Lou Anna Simon is the latest development from the Larry Nassar sexual assault scandal that has rocked the school.

amp.charlotteobserver.com

“William Strampel: The former dean of the university's College of Osteopathic Medicine was charged in March 2018 amid allegations that he failed to keep Nassar in line, groped female students and stored nude student selfies on his campus computer. Strampel, who has also been named in lawsuits, retired even as Michigan State was trying to fire him. He was found guilty June 12 of neglect of duty but acquitted on a more serious criminal sexual-conduct charge. Strampel was sentenced Aug. 7 to a year in jail.”

We’re little more than two years from when the dean charged for a neglect of duty. I wonder exactly what the dean was neglecting, could it be student wellbeing perhaps? Maybe I’m wrong as I don’t have any experience building a school but I’m certain it takes more than two years to establish a culture. Especially when the offender is not only a random faculty member but also the dean.

 

[Goro]

the schools I am looking at right now are as follows:

• PCOM PA
• NSUKPCOM
• KCUMB
• Rocky Vista
• Rowan
• Des Moines
• OKState
• MSUCOM
• WesternU
• Campbell

I know a lot of these schools have heavy in-state bias and I would like to apply to them regardless, but is there anything wrong with the quality of the school? Things I would consider red flags are spread out rotations, dress code (or any weird rules in general), or anything else that could come to mind as a potential issue. I think all of these schools should be ok from my searching through SDN, but it never hurts to ask. Thanks in advance!

Only the public DO schools have a heave IS bias. That would be Rowan, OKCOM and MSUCOM

I can't recommend Nova. Here's why: Two of the four last years have declining first-time COMLEX pass rates. The last two years for which we have data are in the low 90s. Some 7% of their 2018 grads failed to match, ditto 4% of their Class of 2019. There are also signs of significant delay to graduation in these numbers. That’s still not good for a veteran school. I’d expect > 95% pass rates and match rates closer to 100%. These problems are you expect from a new school, not a veteran. Something is very wrong there. See: Residency Match Data and COMLEX Level 3 Board Scores | NSU COM

 

[Obnoxious Dad]

Larry Nassar

How the Larry Nassar scandal has affected others

A judge’s dismissal of criminal charges against former Michigan State University President Lou Anna Simon is the latest development from the Larry Nassar sexual assault scandal that has rocked the school.

amp.charlotteobserver.com

“William Strampel: The former dean of the university's College of Osteopathic Medicine was charged in March 2018 amid allegations that he failed to keep Nassar in line, groped female students and stored nude student selfies on his campus computer. Strampel, who has also been named in lawsuits, retired even as Michigan State was trying to fire him. He was found guilty June 12 of neglect of duty but acquitted on a more serious criminal sexual-conduct charge. Strampel was sentenced Aug. 7 to a year in jail.”

We’re little more than two years from when the dean charged for a neglect of duty. I wonder exactly what the dean was neglecting, could it be student wellbeing perhaps? Maybe I’m wrong as I don’t have any experience building a school but I’m certain it takes more than two years to establish a culture. Especially when the offender is not only a random faculty member but also the dean.

It is true that Michigan State's D.O. non resident tuition is absurdly high but avoiding the school because of Larry Nassar's crimes is absolutely stupid. Just 60 miles down the road from East Lansing you will find the University of Michigan. Robert Anderson M.D. sexually abused hundreds of male and female athletes at the U of M. This went on for almost 30 years. It's highly likely that the athletic director and some of the coaches knew what was going on. The University of Michigan is now trying to get all of these cases settled without anyone going to trial.

Alleged sex abuse kept a Michigan football player away from doctors for decades. He now has stage 4 cancer | CNN

It was the snap of the doctor's glove that spooked him right out of the exam room.

www.cnn.com

Michigan football player recounts crushing ripple effect of team doctor's abuse

Former Michigan football tight end Chuck Christian, who has Stage 4 prostate cancer, says he didn't seek help because of Dr. Robert Anderson's abuse.

www.freep.com

Do you think anybody is going to turn down admission to the University of Michigan Medical School because of Robert Anderson? Give me a break!
See the outcomes for the 2019 MSU DO class:

Outcomes | MSU Osteopathic Medicine

College of Osteopathic Medicine graduates have been highly successful in obtaining residency positions through the National Residency Matching Program and other match services.

com.msu.edu

 

[Sky138]

It is true that Michigan State's D.O. non resident tuition is absurdly high but avoiding the school because of Larry Nassar's crimes is absolutely stupid. Just 60 miles down the road from East Lansing you will find the University of Michigan. Robert Anderson M.D. sexually abused hundreds of male and female athletes at the U of M. This went on for almost 30 years. It's highly likely that the athletic director and some of the coaches knew what was going on. The University of Michigan is now trying to get all of these cases settled without anyone going to trial.

Alleged sex abuse kept a Michigan football player away from doctors for decades. He now has stage 4 cancer | CNN

It was the snap of the doctor's glove that spooked him right out of the exam room.

www.cnn.com

Michigan football player recounts crushing ripple effect of team doctor's abuse

Former Michigan football tight end Chuck Christian, who has Stage 4 prostate cancer, says he didn't seek help because of Dr. Robert Anderson's abuse.

www.freep.com

Do you think anybody is going to turn down admission to the University of Michigan Medical School because of Robert Anderson? Give me a break!
See the outcomes for the 2019 MSU DO class:

Outcomes | MSU Osteopathic Medicine

College of Osteopathic Medicine graduates have been highly successful in obtaining residency positions through the National Residency Matching Program and other match services.

com.msu.edu

Actually yeah I would lol. Especially since good old memelord is matriculating there despite being a sexual predator on his second look day. I will have no part in attending a school that has a history of supporting fools like Anderson and memelord

 

[deleted610572]

@AnatomyGrey12 I was wondering if you think LECOM E/B has gotten any better? It's my top DO school purely for the low tuition and the solid match list. Since ranking DOs is pointless, aren't these two pretty much the quintessential factors one should look at, if location is not of concern.

https://lecom.edu/content/uploads/2019/06/Match-Report-2019.pdf

yes go to lecom. You’ll hate the rules but you’ll love the debt at the end of it all.