LUCOM inaugural class stats...

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serenade said:
Linda Loma has one of the most respected hospitals in all of California attached to it and does more research than all the DO schools combined. You cannot compare two schools like this.

Linda Loma also doesn't have a directly attached agenda of political supremacy and is not a quazi for profit online school created by a man who likely is burning in the hell he wished to condemn so many others to.
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Not to start crap, but I am pretty darn sure even in the medical school you are not allowed to have caffeine or alcohol (as a part of their religious beliefs), as grounds for some sort of school discipline, just throwing it out there...

http://www.llu.edu/central/apply/mdlifestyle.page
Also:
"Chapel. In order to facilitate a personal journey with God, the University provides midweek chapel services for both students and faculty members. These chapel services are typically a required element of the students' program at LLU" (This is found within the Medical school requirements link).

Even LUCOM is not that strict... Again, just trying to toss the truth out there so people can accurately judge things. Some people want to learn and train in very liberal environments, while others would like to train in more conservative environments more in line with their personal beliefs. This is one reason why Loma Linda still exists as it is. Some people would prefer to have that kind of medical training provided there (with the religion attached). I think having options for both ways is good for diversity and freedom. Having options that suite their religious beliefs being intertwined with their medical education is a good thing. Imagine if there were medical schools not only with ultraconservative christianity, but also those with Muslim, or Jewish teachings. Would you not expect devout Muslims or Jews to feel more comfortable at those locations and thus likely be more passionate about their medical education and thus eventually be more successful physicians? I would argue that that would really help certain groups... It just happens that the Christians have made the jump on medical schools and other religious groups have not (as far as I know of). Just trying to help calm everyone down and help promote some diversity in discussion here...

Now personally, I would not be caught at LUCOM because they have yet to match anyone and being from that area, even their undergrad institution is not seen as very reputable (they say a degree from Liberty is more useful as fuel for a fire than to get a job, that is the saying around my parts). But at the same time, I can truly respect that people want to be in that kind of environment for professional training.

People who call students at LUCOM "bigots" are also engaging in bigotry (towards religious people/differences in your beliefs). Just suggesting everyone take a step back and cool their jets a little bit. No one will know how LUCOM fares until a few years in.
 
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gdfernan said:
Christian hating bigots will hate. Ignore these unpleasant human beings who troll on any thread regarding LUCOM, spewing their hate and venom
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No. That's not hate and venom. If I were to say that Christians caused 9-11 or that they all deserve to go to hell that would be hate and venom. I've said it before and I'll say it again. LUCOM may be the right choice for a student who wished to abide by the code of conduct given, and wants a med school that emphasizes a close relationship with God. My criticism has always been that if a student does not wish to follow those rules and does not fit their mission, they should not attend or apply. I would hate for someone who went there as a last resort to get expelled over conduct violations, because that could ruin their chances of ever becoming a physician. My goal has always been to educate people on what they are getting into.
 
Awesome Sauceome said:
Not to argue, but I am pretty darn sure even in the medical school you are not allowed to have caffeine or alcohol (as a part of their religious beliefs), as grounds for dismissal, just throwing it out there...

http://www.llu.edu/central/apply/mdlifestyle.page
Also:
"Chapel. In order to facilitate a personal journey with God, the University provides midweek chapel services for both students and faculty members. These chapel services are typically a required element of the students' program at LLU" (This is found within the Medical school requirements link).

Even LUCOM is not that strict... Again, just trying to toss the truth out there so people can accurately judge things. Some people want to learn and train in very liberal environments, while others would like to train in more conservative environments more in line with their personal beliefs. Why should anyone be forced to learn in any environment that is not in line with their beliefs?

Now personally, I would not be caught at LUCOM because they have yet to match anyone and being from that area, even their undergrad institution is not seen as very reputable (they say a degree from Liberty is more useful as fuel for a fire than to get a job, that is the saying around my parts). But at the same time, I can truly respect that people want to be in that kind of environment for professional training.

People who call students at LUCOM "bigots" are also engaging in bigotry (towards religious people/differences in your beliefs). Just suggesting everyone take a step back and cool their jets a little bit. No one will know how LUCOM fares until a few years in.
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Again I don't care that they're Christian. I care that they're a poor quality school and that their Ugrad is predominately an online school. DO schools cannot be given to schools like this or else it's only a little bit of time until we start giving schools like Chicago psychology and argosy DO schools.
 
serenade said:
Again I don't care that they're Christian. I care that they're a poor quality school and that their Ugrad is predominately an online school. DO schools cannot be given to schools like this or else it's only a little bit of time until we start giving schools like Chicago psychology and argosy DO schools.
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How about some of the medical schools that build from no undergrad school.... would you not argue that they are worse off that a school that at least HAS an undergrad institution backing it? I think this is a weak argument for why they should not exist.... There are some medical schools with no undergrad affiliation that are doing just fine...

My only beef with them is rotations. Thats it. They need to prove that they have excellent rotations and I would be fine with them. They set up shop before having those types of relationships with clinical sites set up. THAT is the bad thing about LUCOM... everything else, should be put on the back burner of all arguments on here.

For instance, even ACOM had very tight connections before designs for the building were even made. THAT is the way to do it and that is what I think people should be angry about at LUCOM.
 
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touchpause13 said:
No. That's not hate and venom. If I were to say that Christians caused 9-11 or that they all deserve to go to hell that would be hate and venom. I've said it before and I'll say it again. LUCOM may be the right choice for a student who wished to abide by the code of conduct given, and wants a med school that emphasizes a close relationship with God. My criticism has always been that if a student does not wish to follow those rules and does not fit their mission, they should not attend or apply. I would hate for someone who went there as a last resort to get expelled over conduct violations, because that could ruin their chances of ever becoming a physician. My goal has always been to educate people on what they are getting into.
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Exactly... let people have the choice, and just hope that people apply to the right schools for the right reasons.
 
serenade said:
Agreed, I wish it had opened up at George Mason even. More schools to serve the DMV is majorly important and totally cool.
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Haha that's funny I was literally just thinking that! I'm from the DMV area so it would be nice to go back and there are some great hospitals in that area. But yeah, unfortunately I don't think Liberty would ever be a good fit for me.... I don't quite fit in, especially considering the fact that I'm not religious at all.
 
dutchie000 said:
Haha that's funny I was literally just thinking that! I'm from the DMV area so it would be nice to go back and there are some great hospitals in that area. But yeah, unfortunately I don't think Liberty would ever be a good fit for me.... I don't quite fit in, especially considering the fact that I'm not religious at all.
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Right, it's a decent candidate for a DO school. But the problem is that it's not a wealthy school at all. And I don't think it needs a money sink.
 
gdfernan said:
Christian hating bigots will hate. Ignore these unpleasant human beings who troll on any thread regarding LUCOM, spewing their hate and venom
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I don't hate Christians. I dislike bad schools made by bad people.
 
Goro said:
I've done a google search to see if LU (the UG school) has reversed that policy, but haven't found anything. It was still in force as of 2009. Other bon mots: They don't consider Democrats to be Christian, and if you're not married, no living with your sweetie. Supposedly, these rules are not supposed to apply to the medical students, but I've heard otherwise.
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I believe that you are referencing Bob Jones University which cancelled the rule in 2000. (I was watching the Larry King episode it was announced on). That was not a rule at Liberty during the time you mention
 
sb247 said:
I believe that you are referencing Bob Jones University which cancelled the rule in 2000. (I was watching the Larry King episode it was announced on). That was not a rule at Liberty during the time you mention
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If your name is something cool, go ahead and name your school that, like Vanderbilt. But when your name is Bob... seriously tho..
 
I'm still confused how they are comfortable releasing those stats before school even starts? Maybe it's not that big of a deal, but I would wait at least until classes start...
 
m1021 said:
I'm still confused how they are comfortable releasing those stats before school even starts? Maybe it's not that big of a deal, but I would wait at least until classes start...
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Class starts in 2 months. People are applying now.
 
Awesome Sauceome said:
Now personally, I would not be caught at LUCOM because they have yet to match anyone and being from that area, even their undergrad institution is not seen as very reputable (they say a degree from Liberty is more useful as fuel for a fire than to get a job, that is the saying around my parts). But at the same time, I can truly respect that people want to be in that kind of environment for professional training.

People who call students at LUCOM "bigots" are also engaging in bigotry (towards religious people/differences in your beliefs). Just suggesting everyone take a step back and cool their jets a little bit. No one will know how LUCOM fares until a few years in.
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Agreed.
 
gdfernan said:
Christian hating bigots will hate. Ignore these unpleasant human beings who troll on any thread regarding LUCOM, spewing their hate and venom
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Right, because they're grouping all two billion Christians together rather than just the religious extremists who use their religion to advance political causes.
 
Here is the major problem I have with a school like this and I could be totally wrong.

There is probably no other field of work that requires someone to set aside their criticisms, judgements, biases, etc. as much as medicine. An individual's life may literally depend on a physicians ability to provide the maximum level of care to EVERYONE they treat, and patients all expect that. Should a patient really have to be concerned that their doctor is going to look down on them because their skirt sits above their knees or that god forbid, they contracted an sti from their girlfriend/boyfriend?

It may sound easy to throw out such judgement in a professional setting, but I really think the students who have lived their whole lives sheltered and by a moral code established by a bigoted a**hole like Jerry Falwell are going to have a lot of soul searching to do once they are dumped out into the real world and told to stay up late coming up with a treatment plan for an HIV+ drug addicted prostitute with a host of other STI's.

When a medical school reinforces the attitude that it's okay to be so incredibly intolerant or is even associated with an institution that enforces these extreme ideologies it literally jeopardizes patient care. I realize that it's human nature to be critical sometimes of those from who we are different or don't agree with, but there is a good reason medical schools traditionally make efforts to diversify their classes.

I also realize it's hypocritical to be intolerant of these ideologies myself, but I've given a lot of thought to the fact that I'm intolerant of intolerance and I'm 100% okay with it.


.
 
Should I not apply here since I'm Muslim? That's kind of what it sounds like from what I've read here.
 
AamirB said:
Should I not apply here since I'm Muslim? That's kind of what it sounds like from what I've read here.
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Don't listen to people on the interwebs. Most of the naysayers are not even medical students nor have ever been to the school. Inaugural class has a huge variety of different religions, including Muslim. Good luck!
 
gdfernan said:
Christian hating bigots will hate. Ignore these unpleasant human beings who troll on any thread regarding LUCOM, spewing their hate and venom
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Disagree with one school's interpretation of the Christian religion = Christian hating bigots? LOL so ironic that the homophobes that also oppose interracial marriage think they can call someone a bigot.
 
1badz said:
Don't listen to people on the interwebs. Most of the naysayers are not even medical students nor have ever been to the school. Inaugural class has a huge variety of different religions, including Muslim. Good luck!
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yea they definitely have more diversity than SDN puts on.

The undergrad likely does not...

But whether the religion is in play or not, there may be other reasons not to go. Check out their rotations and stuff to see if they are at locations that you would like.





Sent from my RM-917_nam_usa_100 using Tapatalk
 
Goro said:
I've done a google search to see if LU (the UG school) has reversed that policy, but haven't found anything. It was still in force as of 2009. Other bon mots: They don't consider Democrats to be Christian, and if you're not married, no living with your sweetie. Supposedly, these rules are not supposed to apply to the medical students, but I've heard otherwise.
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I asked them directly via e-mail if living with my girlfriend would be acceptable and they told me I should reconsider my living arrangements or consider applying to another school.

Not even their staff gets a free pass, so why would they let the DO students get off scott free?
 
GypsyHummus said:
Lol, this is funny.

Hypothetical Question though:

If Liberty was the only school that admitted you (which could very well be the case for some people on the lower end of the spectrum) is it still worth it to go to that school?
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If you play Olympic-level soccer and the only team that will take you is North Korea, is it still worth playing for them?
 
AlbinoHawk DO said:
Disagree with one school's interpretation of the Christian religion = Christian hating bigots? LOL so ironic that the homophobes that also oppose interracial marriage think they can call someone a bigot.
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You should check out the gay cake thread in the wolf den. It's getting absurd atm, people are legitimately being irate at me poking holes in their bigotry.
 
At interview day, the admissions staff explicitly stated that due to threads on SDN they had reconsidered their student conduct policies. Drinking alcohol, tobacco use, living with your girlfriend--all ok for their DO students. However after being accepted, I was able to access their student handbook. It stated the exact opposite. All of these things were offenses leading to expulsion, and the honor code binds students and staff to report those suspected of breaking the rules. It's one thing for a school like Loma Linda to have high standards. For those willing to abide by their rules, and wanting an explicitly religious environment, that's perfect. But it's entirely different for schools to mislead potential students regarding their expectations.

In addition, they over-extended acceptances to their incoming class. Instead of acknowledging that people would be dropping out as the time grew nearer, they withdrew the acceptances. One of my friends had received her acceptance (the only one she had this cycle), told her friends and family, and begun making plans. Then when she called to make the deposit, they told her "Oh sorry, you're only on the wait list, the class is now filled." She ended up getting in off of the wait list, yes, but it is horribly unprofessional for them to make such a decision without notifying the affected parties. No letters or e-mails were sent out warning them of their situation, they were left to find out when they tried to make a deposit and were unable. I spoke about this with multiple adcom members and practicing physicians, all were aghast at the decision. LUCOM's admissions office eventually commented about this on their school-specific thread, stating that all the affected students were accepted off the wait list in the end.

I know a handful of future LUCOM students and wish them the best, but it's not the environment I'd like to surround myself with for the next four years.
 
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ommnomm said:
In addition, they over-extended acceptances to their incoming class. Instead of acknowledging that people would be dropping out as the time grew nearer, they withdrew the acceptances. One of my friends had received her acceptance (the only one she had this cycle), told her friends and family, and begun making plans. Then when she called to make the deposit, they told her "Oh sorry, you're only on the wait list, the class is now filled." She ended up getting in off of the wait list, yes, but it is horribly unprofessional for them to make such a decision without notifying the affected parties. No letters or e-mails were sent out warning them of their situation, they were left to find out when they tried to make a deposit and were unable. I spoke about this with multiple adcom members and practicing physicians, all were aghast at the decision. LUCOM's admissions office eventually commented about this on their school-specific thread, stating that all the affected students were accepted off the wait list in the end.

I know a handful of future LUCOM students and wish them the best, but it's not the environment I'd like to surround myself with for the next four years.
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I find that hard to believe. If that happened to me, there would be a lawsuit almost immediately. How many people signed leases, gave notice at their jobs, etc?
 
ommnomm said:
When I interviewed here, the admissions staff explicitly stated that due to threads on SDN they had reconsidered their student conduct policies. Drinking alcohol, tobacco use, living with your girlfriend--all ok for their DO students. However after being accepted, I was able to access their student handbook. It stated the exact opposite. All of these things were offenses leading to expulsion, and the honor code binds students and staff to report those suspected of breaking the rules. It's one thing for a school like Loma Linda to have high standards. For those willing to abide by their rules, and wanting an explicitly religious environment, that's perfect. But it's entirely different for schools to mislead potential students regarding their expectations.

In addition, they over-extended acceptances to their incoming class. Instead of acknowledging that people would be dropping out as the time grew nearer, they withdrew the acceptances. One of my friends had received her acceptance (the only one she had this cycle), told her friends and family, and begun making plans. Then when she called to make the deposit, they told her "Oh sorry, you're only on the wait list, the class is now filled." She ended up getting in off of the wait list, yes, but it is horribly unprofessional for them to make such a decision without notifying the affected parties. No letters or e-mails were sent out warning them of their situation, they were left to find out when they tried to make a deposit and were unable. I spoke about this with multiple adcom members and practicing physicians, all were aghast at the decision. LUCOM's admissions office eventually commented about this on their school-specific thread, stating that all the affected students were accepted off the wait list in the end.

I know a handful of future LUCOM students and wish them the best, but it's not the environment I'd like to surround myself with for the next four years.
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I agree with you about their acceptance policy 'conundrum' ... The same thing happened to someone I know. That was a crazy thing for them to do... If someone has another acceptance, that person better think carefully before going LUCOM. I used to defend them on SDN, but after they did that, I don't think I can defend them anymore. I think what they did warrant an investigation by COCA.
 
LU COM Admissions said:
...

... "We acknowledge that we had some challenges during this inaugural year, among which is the fact that we over extended offers to be members of the class, largely based on a lack of history in how students would respond to offers from our new COM. We have taken positive steps to correct our mistakes and move forward. There were originally eight students that received an offer of deferment. We know how disappointing and difficult it was for those students to receive this notification because it was disheartening for us to issue it. With commitment to do the right thing for our students, we have been able to extend acceptance and retain a position in the class for all eight of those students we thought we would have to defer." ...
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jonnythan said:
I find that hard to believe. If that happened to me, there would be a lawsuit almost immediately. How many people signed leases, gave notice at their jobs, etc?
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jonnythan said:
I find that hard to believe. If that happened to me, there would be a lawsuit almost immediately. How many people signed leases, gave notice at their jobs, etc?
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The person that I know gave notice at his job and then they told him he was rather on the waitlist. However, they took him off the wait list after a month. Regardless I thought that was a horrible thing they did.
 
All I can say is, if adcoms at medical schools are voicing distaste, I'm going to say that a lot of residency directors are going to rather take carib students than something politically charged.
 
ommnomm said:
When I interviewed here, the admissions staff explicitly stated that due to threads on SDN they had reconsidered their student conduct policies. Drinking alcohol, tobacco use, living with your girlfriend--all ok for their DO students. However after being accepted, I was able to access their student handbook. It stated the exact opposite. All of these things were offenses leading to expulsion, and the honor code binds students and staff to report those suspected of breaking the rules. It's one thing for a school like Loma Linda to have high standards. For those willing to abide by their rules, and wanting an explicitly religious environment, that's perfect. But it's entirely different for schools to mislead potential students regarding their expectations.

In addition, they over-extended acceptances to their incoming class. Instead of acknowledging that people would be dropping out as the time grew nearer, they withdrew the acceptances. One of my friends had received her acceptance (the only one she had this cycle), told her friends and family, and begun making plans. Then when she called to make the deposit, they told her "Oh sorry, you're only on the wait list, the class is now filled." She ended up getting in off of the wait list, yes, but it is horribly unprofessional for them to make such a decision without notifying the affected parties. No letters or e-mails were sent out warning them of their situation, they were left to find out when they tried to make a deposit and were unable. I spoke about this with multiple adcom members and practicing physicians, all were aghast at the decision. LUCOM's admissions office eventually commented about this on their school-specific thread, stating that all the affected students were accepted off the wait list in the end.

I know a handful of future LUCOM students and wish them the best, but it's not the environment I'd like to surround myself with for the next four years.
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You should copy pasta their handbook
 
I thought the Bible says it's a sin to lie and do harm onto others...so why are the administrators deceiving, back-stabbing and lying to the very students willing to attend their inaugural DO class?
 
serenade said:
All I can say is, if adcoms at medical schools are voicing distaste, I'm going to say that a lot of residency directors are going to rather take carib students than something politically charged.
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The institutions political bs aside, isn't it a bit messed up though to punish the students just for attending the institution ? It's one thing if the students have poor board score but it's another to discriminate just because they come from that school...
 
csx said:
The institutions political bs aside, isn't it a bit messed up though to punish the students just for attending the institution ? It's one thing if the students have poor board score but it's another to discriminate just because they come from that school...
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Nobody is putting a gun to their head to attend. They are willingly attending a school that endorses hate and discrimination.
 
csx said:
The institutions political bs aside, isn't it a bit messed up though to punish the students just for attending the institution ? It's one thing if the students have poor board score but it's another to discriminate just because they come from that school...
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It appears like there is 'discrimination' or rank all along in medicine... From ivy league schools to [insert] schools, from US schools to carib, from MD to DO schools etc... You get the picture! And we most likely won't be able to do anything about it...
 
csx said:
The institutions political bs aside, isn't it a bit messed up though to punish the students just for attending the institution ? It's one thing if the students have poor board score but it's another to discriminate just because they come from that school...
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Usually I'm all about siding with people. But largely no, name matters, prestige matters, legacy matters. Residency programs don't want someone to log into their roster and say ew, this program took on a DO let along a DO from LUCOM.

That's simply the way life works.
 
serenade said:
Usually I'm all about siding with people. But largely no, name matters, prestige matters, legacy matters. Residency programs don't want someone to log into their roster and say ew, this program took on a DO let along a DO from LUCOM.

That's simply the way life works.
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I don't really think you know how life works my friend. Also, I promise you are doing no service to anyone by badmouthing lucom and its students. Grow up and act professional. You don't like them, we get it. Move along and be productive.
 
1badz said:
I don't really think you know how life works my friend. Also, I promise you are doing no service to anyone by badmouthing lucom and its students. Grow up and act professional. You don't like them, we get it. Move along and be productive.
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That's ok, you can ask some of residents or adcoms on here what they think. That way my inexperience with life is no longer a factor.
 
serenade said:
Usually I'm all about siding with people. But largely no, name matters, prestige matters, legacy matters. Residency programs don't want someone to log into their roster and say ew, this program took on a DO let along a DO from LUCOM.

That's simply the way life works.
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Why are you stating your opinion and passing it off as fact when you haven't even gone through the experience of residency applications alongside medical classmates?

You're still in the re-application process.

You're making a blanket statement not considering that there's a huge chance that the majority of programs that would cancel out an applicant because they came from LUCOM are programs who'd reject DOs in general and we all know the tiers of those programs.

In addition, you can't say that LUCOM will be selectively discriminated against because of it's parent university, because they haven't even started their first class yet.

If you wanna make such a strong claim, I hope you're able to cite a reasonable number of residency directors from various programs and tiers. Unverified residents on SDN do not count either.
 
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serenade said:
That's ok, you can ask some of residents or adcoms on here what they think. That way my inexperience with life is no longer a factor.
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I work alongside healthcare professionals in a teaching hospital in my area. Their professional opinions seem to differ from your statements. I really think you need to take a step back with all the bizarre claims you're making. Don't apply to LUCOM if you don't like it, simple as that. Instead of embracing and congratulating your peers and future colleagues, you belittle them with ludicrous remarks. Having said that, I truly wish you the best of luck in your endeavors.
 
1badz said:
I work alongside healthcare professionals in a teaching hospital in my area. Their professional opinions seem to differ from your statements. I really think you need to take a step back with all the bizarre claims you're making. Don't apply to LUCOM if you don't like it, simple as that. Instead of embracing and congratulating your peers and future colleagues, you belittle them with ludicrous remarks. Having said that, I truly wish you the best of luck in your endeavors.
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Agreed. I think those applicants with the comlex/USMLE scores to be competitive will be fine in most specialities.
 
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