MD second thoughts... Too competitive?

[doctoranon]

---

Members don't see this ad.

I’ve always wanted to become a doctor, but the realization of how competitive things are worries me. I’m interested in both orthopedic surgery and anesthesia - two of the most competitive residencies to get into. I really can’t imagine myself doing anything else. I’ve shadowed a variety of physicians since I was in high school (orthopedic surgeon, general surgeon, neurologist, pediatrician, and family care doctor) and the OR seems to be my calling. And yes, I know people change their mind, but let’s hypothetically say I don’t.

I feel like the only way I’ll be able to tell between choosing anesthesia or orthopedic surgery is actually working with both during my rotations in med school. My biggest concern, however, is finding out my passion is ortho, applying to a bunch of programs, and not getting in any because of the competitiveness.

I could go into something like Anesthesiologist Assistant and still specialize in anesthesiology, which is a Master’s program. There’s no residencies to pray to get, it’s a guaranteed specialty once you’re accepted, and the pay is around $130k - $150k, which is an obviously nice incentive. They can only practice in ~ 20 states, but I’m from the south and all the states they’re able to work in are where I would stay anyways, even if I were a doctor.

My biggest concern is getting through med school, giving it my all, then not landing the residency I want. It’s a huge commitment and honestly, in a sense, sort of a gamble. But I’ve always wanted to be a surgeon, I’ve shadowed and know it’s amazing, and I love everything about the job itself.

I’m currently taking a year off to get a job and some clinical experience in the OR, but even then, I’m not going to be assisting in the surgeries. I have a few prerequisites to take, so I’m going to do those simultaneously and hopefully rack up some more volunteer hours. This will also give me some time to decide which route I want to take.

Anyways.

Any opinions?

 

[pioneer22]

anything worthwhile is competitive.
Don't quit because you're afraid to fail.
the challenge is what makes it great.

 

[Goro]

I’ve always wanted to become a doctor, but the realization of how competitive things are worries me. I’m interested in both orthopedic surgery and anesthesia - two of the most competitive residencies to get into. I really can’t imagine myself doing anything else. I’ve shadowed a variety of physicians since I was in high school (orthopedic surgeon, general surgeon, neurologist, pediatrician, and family care doctor) and the OR seems to be my calling. And yes, I know people change their mind, but let’s hypothetically say I don’t.

I feel like the only way I’ll be able to tell between choosing anesthesia or orthopedic surgery is actually working with both during my rotations in med school. My biggest concern, however, is finding out my passion is ortho, applying to a bunch of programs, and not getting in any because of the competitiveness.

I could go into something like Anesthesiologist Assistant and still specialize in anesthesiology, which is a Master’s program. There’s no residencies to pray to get, it’s a guaranteed specialty once you’re accepted, and the pay is around $130k - $150k, which is an obviously nice incentive. They can only practice in ~ 20 states, but I’m from the south and all the states they’re able to work in are where I would stay anyways, even if I were a doctor.

My biggest concern is getting through med school, giving it my all, then not landing the residency I want. It’s a huge commitment and honestly, in a sense, sort of a gamble. But I’ve always wanted to be a surgeon, I’ve shadowed and know it’s amazing, and I love everything about the job itself.

I’m currently taking a year off to get a job and some clinical experience in the OR, but even then, I’m not going to be assisting in the surgeries. I have a few prerequisites to take, so I’m going to do those simultaneously and hopefully rack up some more volunteer hours. This will also give me some time to decide which route I want to take.

Anyways.

Any opinions?

Are you afraid of hard work?

 

[DrDwayneJohnson]

My biggest concern, however, is finding out my passion is ortho, applying to a bunch of programs, and not getting in any because of the competitiveness.

You'll have a better idea after Step 1 if you're competitive for ortho lol. Also, AFAIK, I don't think anesthesia is super competitive these days. This is mostly due to the alternative you just listed because there are fears of mid-level creep from AAs and the like.

I think the difference between anesthesiology and, say, an AA would be the depth of knowledge, leadership, and greater responsibility. I'm sure there's more but those are typically reasons people list for MD/DO > mid-level. If these are things you want, then apply yourself and match into ortho at Iowa or Rush.

 

[Dr. Meliodas]

Confucius said he who says he can and he who says he can't are both usually right.

If you are passionate about something you go for it and if you put in the work you will reach your goal.

 

[efle]

Anesthesia is not currently hard to match. It has a 97% match rate for US allopathic seniors who attempt it and the average step 1 is the same as the national average step 1, with a big range. So you can be a totally middle of the pack USMD student and feel very, very confident in matching anesthesia.

Feeling like nothing else but ortho would be fulfilling is a lot more concerning

Edit: To add a reassuring figure from the Match Report:

You could have a bottom quartile step score of ~205-215 and still have a 90-97% chance of matching gas

 

[LoveBeingHuman:)]

Anesthesiology is not as competitive as many other specialties: derm, neurosurgery, pediatric neuro, etc.

It’s actually a mid tier field. In fact @Goro claims that DO graduates from his school have gone on to be anesthesiologists.

Are you in med school? Have you even been accepted to med school? Focus on that first.

 

[doctoranon]

Are you afraid of hard work?

I work 100 hours a week on average. 60 for work, 12 hours for travel, and 30 for college. So, no. I just don’t want to not get a match. Kind of like some people want to be singers. They have all the talent and work ethic, but some just don’t make it. I’d hate to finish med school and not get a residency.

 

[doctoranon]

Anesthesia is not currently hard to match. It has a 97% match rate for US allopathic seniors who attempt it and the average step 1 is the same as the national average step 1, with a big range. So you can be a totally middle of the pack USMD student and feel very, very confident in matching anesthesia.

Feeling like nothing else but ortho would be fulfilling is a lot more concerning

Edit: To add a reassuring figure from the Match Report:

You could have a bottom quartile step score of ~205-215 and still have a 90-97% chance of matching gas

You are awesome. Thank you for this.

 

[KShah1]

Do you hold a acceptance to medical school?

I'm thinking no, and hence, worry about getting into medical school before planning your glamorous future as a orthopedic surgeon.

 

[doctoranon]

Anesthesiology is not as competitive as many other specialties: derm, neurosurgery, pediatric neuro, etc.

It’s actually a mid tier field. In fact @Goro claims that DO graduates from his school have gone on to be anesthesiologists.

Are you in med school? Have you even been accepted to med school? Focus on that first.

I have not yet, but I want to know before applying which route to do. Such a hard decision.

 

[doctoranon]

Do you hold a acceptance to medical school?

I'm thinking no, and hence, worry about getting into medical school before planning your glamorous future as a orthopedic surgeon.

I’m trying to decide between AA and MD - two different fields to begin with. What’s the problem with planning between med school and AA programs? Don’t you have to prepare for each one specifically? Isn’t it better for me to know which one I want to do fully? Don’t twist me considering both routes as me basking in my future “glamorous” life as a surgeon. Just trying to choose a route. You don’t have to act like I need to be brought back to reality because of that.

 

[doctoranon]

Anesthesiology is not as competitive as many other specialties: derm, neurosurgery, pediatric neuro, etc.

It’s actually a mid tier field. In fact @Goro claims that DO graduates from his school have gone on to be anesthesiologists.

Are you in med school? Have you even been accepted to med school? Focus on that first.

Thanks, I’ve actually planned to apply to a lot of DO programs as well. I’m hesitant, though, as a lot say it messes with your residency spots, which is my biggest concern.

 

[Anti-PD1]

Thanks, I’ve actually planned to apply to a lot of DO programs as well. I’m hesitant, though, as a lot say it messes with your residency spots, which is my biggest concern.

I know plenty of DOs in anesthesiology fwiw.

 

[Oso]

I work 100 hours a week on average. 60 for work, 12 hours for travel, and 30 for college. So, no. I just don’t want to not get a match. Kind of like some people want to be singers. They have all the talent and work ethic, but some just don’t make it. I’d hate to finish med school and not get a residency.

I’m trying to decide between AA and MD - two different fields to begin with. What’s the problem with planning between med school and AA programs? Don’t you have to prepare for each one specifically? Isn’t it better for me to know which one I want to do fully? Don’t twist me considering both routes as me basking in my future “glamorous” life as a surgeon. Just trying to choose a route. You don’t have to act like I need to be brought back to reality because of that.

I think you're worrying too much about the match.

The main question you should be asking yourself right now is: do you want to be a doctor or not?

If the answer is yes, then you should be focusing on getting accepted into med school and, again, not too focused on the match.

None of us can predict whether or not you'll be able to match into ortho and give you advice based on that. If you truly think that's what you want to do (or anesthesia) then focus on getting into med school.

Also, keep in mind that a ton of students start medical school with a specialty in mind and then completely change their minds halfway through.

 

[KShah1]

I’m trying to decide between AA and MD - two different fields to begin with. What’s the problem with planning between med school and AA programs? Don’t you have to prepare for each one specifically? Isn’t it better for me to know which one I want to do fully? Don’t twist me considering both routes as me basking in my future “glamorous” life as a surgeon. Just trying to choose a route. You don’t have to act like I need to be brought back to reality because of that.

You asked for opinions, and you received one. No one is "twisting" you, you need to be brought back to reality simply because you are worrying about matching without a acceptance to medical school. Not to mention, without board scores, letters, etc. This is similar to worrying about what tax bracket you will fall in if you become a millionaire.

Second, the pre-requisites are essentially the same for medical school and AA +/- 1 or 2 classes. If you had done your research, you would have realized that.

 

[doctoranon]

I think you're worrying too much about the match.

The main question you should be asking yourself right now is: do you want to be a doctor or not?

If the answer is yes, then you should be focusing on getting accepted into med school and, again, not too focused on the match.

None of us can predict whether or not you'll be able to match into ortho and give you advice based on that. If you truly think that's what you want to do (or anesthesia) then focus on getting into med school.

Also, keep in mind that a ton of students start medical school with a specialty in mind and then completely change their minds halfway through.

Yeah, I know. A lot of people say that you always know what you want to do and then change your mind. I just couldn’t imagine never getting a residency spot. My grades are pretty damn good and usually are, I’m just thinking all the time invested and not matching a residency would be killer. Maybe I’m overthinking. Thanks for your insight!

 

[doctoranon]

You asked for opinions, and you received one. No one is "twisting" you, you need to be brought back to reality simply because you are worrying about matching without a acceptance to medical school. Not to mention, without board scores, letters, etc. This is similar to worrying about what tax bracket you will fall in if you become a millionaire.

Second, the pre-requisites are essentially the same for medical school and AA +/- 1 or 2 classes. If you had done your research, you would have realized that.

Some AA programs accept online prerequisites, most med schools don’t.. Some AA programs accept GRE over MCAT, med schools want the MCAT. AA programs want shadow experience, while med school doesn’t need it. There are less AA programs than med schools, so it may be more competitive. Some med schools have different requirements than other med schools. Etc. AA and MD aren’t the same path. So me asking an opinion on which path I should take and getting an answer like “see if you get into med school first” is a completely unrelated answer. You obviously didn’t read my post. It was long, though, and I’m sure you don’t have the attention span. So, my apologies on that part. I know how to apply to AA programs. I know how to apply to med school. I don’t know which path I want to take fully, so I was asking for opinions to that, not negative opinions from people who can’t even answer my question. It’s okay to receive a negative opinion, but at least be along the lines of saying I shouldn’t be an MD since I can’t decide. SOMETHING productive answered, at least. Haha. Thanks for your input, though. You always have to expect one of these responses on an anonymous forum. Good laugh.

 

[KShah1]

Some AA programs accept online prerequisites, most med schools don’t.. Some AA programs accept GRE over MCAT, med schools want the MCAT. AA programs want shadow experience, while med school doesn’t need it. There are less AA programs than med schools, so it may be more competitive. Some med schools have different requirements than other med schools. Etc. AA and MD aren’t the same path. So me asking an opinion on which path I should take and getting an answer like “see if you get into med school first” is a completely unrelated answer. You obviously didn’t read my post. It was long, though, and I’m sure you don’t have the attention span. So, my apologies on that part. I know how to apply to AA programs. I know how to apply to med school. I don’t know which path I want to take fully, so I was asking for opinions to that, not negative opinions from people who can’t even answer my question. It’s okay to receive a negative opinion, but at least be along the lines of saying I shouldn’t be an MD since I can’t decide. SOMETHING productive answered, at least. Haha. Thanks for your input, though. You always have to expect one of these responses on an anonymous forum. Good laugh.

So riled up on a anonymous forum. 2 of the people you thanked literally said to focus on getting into medical school first, but nice selective reading. My advice is this, wear a jacket, the world can get quite cold.

 

[doctoranon]

I know plenty of DOs in anesthesiology fwiw.

That’s really good. I actually like the DO model of learning, but I heard residency is easier for those with MD’s. Especially anything surgically related. I’m glad to hear that, though! Thank you.

 

[Goro]

I have not yet, but I want to know before applying which route to do. Such a hard decision.

Look. Do you want to be a doctor or not? What does your heart tell you?

 

[CherryRedDracul]

Some AA programs accept online prerequisites, most med schools don’t.. Some AA programs accept GRE over MCAT, med schools want the MCAT. AA programs want shadow experience, while med school doesn’t need it. There are less AA programs than med schools, so it may be more competitive. Some med schools have different requirements than other med schools. Etc. AA and MD aren’t the same path. So me asking an opinion on which path I should take and getting an answer like “see if you get into med school first” is a completely unrelated answer. You obviously didn’t read my post. It was long, though, and I’m sure you don’t have the attention span. So, my apologies on that part. I know how to apply to AA programs. I know how to apply to med school. I don’t know which path I want to take fully, so I was asking for opinions to that, not negative opinions from people who can’t even answer my question. It’s okay to receive a negative opinion, but at least be along the lines of saying I shouldn’t be an MD since I can’t decide. SOMETHING productive answered, at least. Haha. Thanks for your input, though. You always have to expect one of these responses on an anonymous forum. Good laugh.

Seems like every premed wants to go into ortho. The class before my graduating class had around 30-40% of students interested in ortho. That number dwindled down to less than 10 by the time residency apps were due.

Most med students will change their minds about which specialty they want to go into, some of them several times. I know I did. I was initially thinking ortho, but then decided to go into radiology after thinking about pulmonary/critical care for a bit. I don't have any regrets about my decision.

But that's what people are trying to say when they say "First and foremost, do you want to become a doctor? If so, get into medical school first." There's a strong chance, statistically speaking, that your mind will change regarding what you want to go into. You want to be prepared to choose another specialty should ortho be struck off the cards, either through your own volition or your circumstances.

 

[LoveBeingHuman:)]

Also, OP, I wanna say that many people aren't attracted to ortho because they like doing it but rather they are attracted to the lifestyle and prestige. When you struggle through medical school and your mind finds something happy to think about, that's when you'll truly realize what specialty makes you happy.

 

[efle]

The national match report also includes information about how residency directorss view DO and foreign MD degrees. Anesthesia is one of the specialties that is very accessible for DO. Two-thirds of programs say they often interview/rank DO. The remaining third still does too, though rarely.

Spoiler: Anesthesia

Compare to ortho surg, where only 5% of programs often consider DO.

Spoiler: Ortho

Wouldn't worry at all about going DO, with anesthesia as the target

 

[doctoranon]

Look. Do you want to be a doctor or not? What does your heart tell you?

Yes, I want to be a doctor. I am just very nervous of not getting into residency. I’m probably overthinking it. It takes a lot for me to be a 3.7 student and I heard undergrad is NOTHING on med school. Hopefully working my butt off will make it work.

 

[doctoranon]

Seems like every premed wants to go into ortho. The class before my graduating class had around 30-40% of students interested in ortho. That number dwindled down to less than 10 by the time residency apps were due.

Most med students will change their minds about which specialty they want to go into, some of them several times. I know I did. I was initially thinking ortho, but then decided to go into radiology after thinking about pulmonary/critical care for a bit. I don't have any regrets about my decision.

But that's what people are trying to say when they say "First and foremost, do you want to become a doctor? If so, get into medical school first." There's a strong chance, statistically speaking, that your mind will change regarding what you want to go into. You want to be prepared to choose another specialty should ortho be struck off the cards, either through your own volition or your circumstances.

I love surgery, but I’d prefer not to do life and death situations, so ortho appeals to me mostly for that reason, although a lot of general surgeons do some low risk stuff too. Lifestyle is very important to me as well. It’s good to see you ended up in radiology, I’ve heard that’s super competitive as well. How is it for you so far?

 

[maplecookie]

I also started the pre-med process with a very strong interest in a particular specialty and wanted to give a couple of points that I've picked up along the way that might be useful thoughts:
-while there's a lot of different ways to work in medicine, a big differentiating part of a doctor's role is the scale of leadership and responsibility
-you should keep your mind open (I deliberately volunteered in specialties different from my original interest so I wasn't blinding myself to one thing)
-you're probably going to be rotate through things you don't like before you get to what you want

Anyways, my overall thought is
If you want assurance that you will work in a particular specialty, don't want to dabble in other things on the way there, and don't care how much of a leadership role you want in that specialty maybe AA/etc. will be better for you

If you foremost want to be a leader in medicine, are open to different things, and ok with a long trip to get to end career: doctor. I think it's great that you have an idea of what specialty you want to get into but you should think of "do you want to be a doctor (in the general sense)/get in medical school" first. And I'm not as familiar with matching, but it seems from the posts on this thread that anesthesiology at least shouldn't be that bad to get into if you still want to specialize in that after medical school.

Sorry if this is a bit disjointed, was kinda a chain of my personal thoughts

 

[doctoranon]

Also, OP, I wanna say that many people aren't attracted to ortho because they like doing it but rather they are attracted to the lifestyle and prestige. When you struggle through medical school and your mind finds something happy to think about, that's when you'll truly realize what specialty makes you happy.

That’s a good point. My lifestyle is very important to me also. I just know I want to be a doctor and couldn’t imagine doing anything else. Even if I do, it’s still in the medical field. I’m the type of person who likes to have a specific goal and attack it 110%, so when I don’t have a goal that’s very specific, I get frustrated and feel lost. I suppose no medical wanna be student has an exact idea of anything yet. IF they do, their mind seems to change.

 

[doctoranon]

The national match report also includes information about how residency directorss view DO and foreign MD degrees. Anesthesia is one of the specialties that is very accessible for DO. Two-thirds of programs say they often interview/rank DO. The remaining third still does too, though rarely.

Spoiler: Anesthesia

Compare to ortho surg, where only 5% of programs often consider DO.

Spoiler: Ortho

Wouldn't worry at all about going DO, with anesthesia as the target

This was a very inspirational and reassuring post. Seriously, thank you!

 

[doctoranon]

I also started the pre-med process with a very strong interest in a particular specialty and wanted to give a couple of points that I've picked up along the way that might be useful thoughts:
-while there's a lot of different ways to work in medicine, a big differentiating part of a doctor's role is the scale of leadership and responsibility
-you should keep your mind open (I deliberately volunteered in specialties different from my original interest so I wasn't blinding myself to one thing)
-you're probably going to be rotate through things you don't like before you get to what you want

Anyways, my overall thought is
If you want assurance that you will work in a particular specialty, don't want to dabble in other things on the way there, and don't care how much of a leadership role you want in that specialty maybe AA/etc. will be better for you

If you foremost want to be a leader in medicine, are open to different things, and ok with a long trip to get to end career: doctor. I think it's great that you have an idea of what specialty you want to get into but you should think of "do you want to be a doctor (in the general sense)/get in medical school" first. And I'm not as familiar with matching, but it seems from the posts on this thread that anesthesiology at least shouldn't be that bad to get into if you still want to specialize in that after medical school.

Sorry if this is a bit disjointed, was kinda a chain of my personal thoughts

Thanks so much for your insight. I’ve never really thought of it that way. It’s reallty appreciated and gives me a lot to think about.

 

[Goro]

Yes, I want to be a doctor. I am just very nervous of not getting into residency. I’m probably overthinking it. It takes a lot for me to be a 3.7 student and I heard undergrad is NOTHING on med school. Hopefully working my butt off will make it work.

You could also fail out of med school; decide after matriculation that you hate Medicine, or get killed by a bus while crossing the street. You could also be in that 60% pool of people who don't get accepted.

So get into med school first, and then worry about not matching.

Therefore, do not take council of your fears.
Gen'l Geo. S. Patton

 

[RNtoMD87]

Nothing wrong with competition.

If you want it that badly, do whatever it takes.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

Tunnel vision is a bad sign. Decide if you want to be a doctor or not first. If you go to medical school with the fear of not matching into the specialty of your choice, you should not be a doctor, period. Being a doctor has nothing to do with getting the residency you want, it is about taking care of patients. What it sounds like you are saying is, “I want to go into space, but only if it means I can go to Mars. If I only go to Jupiter or Venus, then f**k space.” That is why you’re receiving criticism, which, by the way, is completely reasonable, and you’ve reacted to it poorly, by accusing the criticizing party of “not having a long attention span.” And by the way, just fyi… Orthopaedics is not a “lifestyle” specialty.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[RNtoMD87]

I already take care of patients. I want to be a doctor
To see if I can make it
To enhance my knowledge
To have more power to improve the lives of people around me

 

[RNtoMD87]

That’s a good point. My lifestyle is very important to me also. I just know I want to be a doctor and couldn’t imagine doing anything else. Even if I do, it’s still in the medical field. I’m the type of person who likes to have a specific goal and attack it 110%, so when I don’t have a goal that’s very specific, I get frustrated and feel lost. I suppose no medical wanna be student has an exact idea of anything yet. IF they do, their mind seems to change.

From what I gather, if youre ortho, you probably wont have much of a life outside of medicine. It takes a high degree of dedication.

 

[doctoranon]

Tunnel vision is a bad sign. Decide if you want to be a doctor or not first. If you go to medical school with the fear of not matching into the specialty of your choice, you should not be a doctor, period. Being a doctor has nothing to do with getting the residency you want, it is about taking care of patients. What it sounds like you are saying is, “I want to go into space, but only if it means I can go to Mars. If I only go to Jupiter or Venus, then f**k space.” That is why you’re receiving criticism, which, by the way, is completely reasonable, and you’ve reacted to it poorly, by accusing the criticizing party of “not having a long attention span.” And by the way, just fyi… Orthopaedics is not a “lifestyle” specialty.


Sent from my iPhone using [\QUOTE]

Yeah, I think that’s the just of what everyone else was saying. I’ve always wanted to be a doctor, but I have a specific personality that wouldn’t do well in certain specialities like family care or peds. I just want a speciality that suits my personality is the most important thing.

 

[doctoranon]

I already take care of patients. I want to be a doctor
To see if I can make it
To enhance my knowledge
To have more power to improve the lives of people around me

That’s great! Where are you in your journey now?

 

[RNtoMD87]

I am a RN with 3 years experience, finishing my BSN this december, then I have to take GChem, Ochem, biochem, and physics, and take the MCAT.

I'm a combat veteran and plan on using GI bill to pay for medschool.

Volunteering doing autopsies at the coroners office, and teaching prediabetes education at the YMCA.

 

[mwsapphire]

The national match report also includes information about how residency directorss view DO and foreign MD degrees. Anesthesia is one of the specialties that is very accessible for DO. Two-thirds of programs say they often interview/rank DO. The remaining third still does too, though rarely.

Spoiler: Anesthesia

Compare to ortho surg, where only 5% of programs often consider DO.

Spoiler: Ortho

Wouldn't worry at all about going DO, with anesthesia as the target

This being said, general surgery is a lot more promising. ( relatively)

I'm normally pretty cynical, but I think the AOA programs will continue to favor DO"s, so I think you'll be fine as a gen surgeon or, as stated above, an anesthesiologist if you don't make the cut for MD and hit DO instead.