Move before or after medical school? I need some advice, preferably from experience.

[doctor_crane]

I want to move to Washington (state) for personal reasons after I graduate. (girlfriend wants me to move with her, her family is moving so she does not have a choice. It's a very serious relationship, the second serious relationship for me.)
Should I move to Washington first to qualify for instate tuition a year later at Washington University at Seattle before applying or should I apply right after college and pay out of state tuition (which is double the already very expensive tuition)? (assuming I get accepted) I will apply to other medical schools near this state, but there is only 1 medical school in this state. I graduate a year early than the traditional student, so I have time to spare.

Or should I go to medical school wherever I get accepted and then move after medical school/residency?

I do not want to live in my current state for another 8 years (if I get into an MD/PhD program) or 4 years for an MD or more if I'm still unable to move due to residency. I do not fit in with the culture here and I want to stay with my girlfriend.

I have a very competitive application, 4.0 biochemistry, shadowing, volunteer hours, leadership, etc. I take the MCAT this summer.
I'm not from an ivy league school though, just a standard state school without a big name, but the education is good.

Should I prioritize medical school and apply to every medical school I can? Should I really be concerned about tuition or just go where I want?
It seems silly to assume that I'd be accepted into any medical school and move there for instate tuition first, because I may get rejected anyway, but then again, I'm saving $30k a year for 4 years if accepted.

If rejected, I will not give up on my ultimate goal and dream of going to medical school and becoming a physician and preferably scientist as well (but just physician is okay with me).

Thank you for taking the time to read this, I need advice.

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[ifnotnowwren]

I'm not trying to sway you one way or another, but tuition is not your only concern with Washington. Unless you are a resident of Washington, Wyoming, Alaska, Montana, or Idaho, you are considered "out of region". In 2015, they accepted 36 out of region applications. 36/6724 out of region applicants. In their FAQ, when asked about in-state vs. out-of-state, the response was simply "Out of region applicants must have an exceptional record of service or come from a disadvantaged background to be considered."

These links may be helpful:

http://www.uwmedicine.org/education/md-program/admissions/stats

http://www.uwmedicine.org/education/documents/md-program/UWSOM-AdmissionsProcess.pdf

http://www.uwmedicine.org/education/md-program/admissions/faqs/admissions-process

 

[doctor_crane]

I'm not trying to sway you one way or another, but tuition is not your only concern with Washington. Unless you are a resident of Washington, Wyoming, Alaska, Montana, or Idaho, you are considered "out of region". In 2015, they accepted 36 out of region applications. 36/6724 out of region applicants. In their FAQ, when asked about in-state vs. out-of-state, the response was simply "Out of region applicants must have an exceptional record of service or come from a disadvantaged background to be considered."

These links may be helpful:

http://www.uwmedicine.org/education/md-program/admissions/stats

http://www.uwmedicine.org/education/documents/md-program/UWSOM-AdmissionsProcess.pdf

http://www.uwmedicine.org/education/md-program/admissions/faqs/admissions-process

Thank you. This is very helpful. Not only would it be cheaper to move first, but I'd have a much greater chance to get accepted.
Still is a tough decision, but I have time to think about it.

 

[whatever5]

Where are you currently a resident of?

 

[Dr. Retractor]

Where are you currently a resident of?

I immediately assumed Florida based on the GPA/Major and the fact that he wants to leave lol

 

[eteshoe]

You don't seem like you really want to do the whole MD/PhD thing

 

[breezy16]

If you are a NY or TX resident, I wouldn't move.

 

[rednote]

If it is that serious why don't you guys live together whereever you end up? I don't see why she needs to stay with her parents?

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

If you feel like going to Washington, then go. But don't bank on getting into U Wash and accept you may need to leave(if you don't move there, assume you will not be accepted, since >95% of students are from in state). Without an MCAT you've got no clue how competitive you'll be.

 

[kmp0410]

If it is that serious why don't you guys live together whereever you end up? I don't see why she needs to stay with her parents?

This. Part of growing up and being in a relationship.

 

[parachichi]

A few things...

1. I second the "Why doesn't she move?" question.
2. Here are the residency requirements for UWSOM: https://registrar.washington.edu/students/residency/residency-requirements/
Being a resident is more than just living in WA for a year. I think you'd need to check all these boxes before submitting your secondary, but I'm not sure.
3. When I interviewed at UW, they said that they try to offer as many OOR acceptances as they have scholarships to cover them, so that OOR students paid the same tuition as IS students. Still, it's extremely difficult to get in as an OOR applicant.
4. WSU is opening a medical school: http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/education/wsu-med-school-hopes-to-enroll-students-in-2017/
OHSU is the only other medical school near Washington, and it also has strong in-state bias.
5. Even if you're a fantastic applicant, it's difficult and foolish to bank on getting into a certain school. And many things can happen in the next year or two that impact your med school decisions! Apply broadly and accept the fact that you may have to or want to move for medical school/residency.
6. Don't use tuition as your deciding factor. ****'s expensive everywhere.
7. It's "University of Washington" not "Washington University." Sorry, I don't mean to be snarky; it's just a pet peeve. Grew up in Washington

 

[DokterMom]

Getting into ANY medical school is a difficult feat that only 35-40% of applicants achieve, meaning 60-65% do not. While your GPA is certainly competitive, without an MCAT score, you have no idea exactly how competitive an applicant you really are. And aiming for one specific school is SUCH a low odds proposal -- like 2-3% low odds -- so NOT something to plan your life around. Do the math to find out what percentage of "in region" students are accepted before you decide to move and spend a few years establishing residency.

If becoming a doctor is your dream, make that your first priority. Sure, apply to Washington and Oregon, but ALSO apply where your chances are best, which will probably include your current state. (May not be your first choice but getting accepted sure beats not getting accepted anywhere.)

I hear you about not feeling like you fit into your current state's culture. This can absolutely intensify your feelings of connectedness to your GF and may be clouding your judgement. Finding a person with whom you 'fit' is an incredibly important thing. Yet you also state that this is only your second serious relationship -- so again, I'd urge caution in building your relationship and life-plan around someone at this point. Alternately, if you're certain she's the right person, consider getting engaged and having her follow you to medical school, wherever that happens to be, with Washington first on your list.

 

[ifnotnowwren]

Getting into ANY medical school is a difficult feat that only 35-40% of applicants achieve, meaning 60-65% do not. While your GPA is certainly competitive, without an MCAT score, you have no idea exactly how competitive an applicant you really are. And aiming for one specific school is SUCH a low odds proposal -- like 2-3% low odds -- so NOT something to plan your life around. Do the math to find out what percentage of "in region" students are accepted before you decide to move and spend a few years establishing residency.

I did the math because I was curious... 254 accepted in region students/1316 in region applicant = 19.3%. For out of region...0.3 %. They accepted 254 in region students, and 228 in region students matriculated.

They state that 733 students from Washington applied and 126 matriculated there. The total class size is 245. So applicants from Washington make up 51% of the class, and they make up 55% of the in-region students in the class (126/228).

This is speculative...but I'm going to guess that because Washington residents make up 55% of the in-region applicants and 55% of the matriculated in-region students, that they make up close to 55% of the in-region acceptances as well. 254 in region applicants were accepted. 55% of this comes out to about 140. So 140 Washington applicants are accepted out of 733 Washington applicants, making this a 19% acceptance rate.

Becoming a Washington resident increase your chances from near impossible (the nebulous "exceptional record of service or come from a disadvantaged background" 0.3%) to 19%, but by no means is that a sure thing or a number I would feel comfortable riding on. The Pacific Northwest probably has some DO schools too but I know nothing about them. I wholeheartedly agree with the rest of DokterMom's post.

 

[DokterMom]

Well done @ifnotnowwren ! And the math is considerably more favorable than I expected. Was that the one school's In Region acceptance rate? Or all Washington State schools for all Washington state residents? (Not very familiar with WA state -- just that the one school is VERY highly ranked and nigh-impossible for OOS'ers to get into)

 

[doctor_crane]

You don't seem like you really want to do the whole MD/PhD thing

I was trying to be brief, I have good reasons, but that's not what I need to discuss. I was just saying that to show how long I'd be in school, potentially.

 

[doctor_crane]

If you are a NY or TX resident, I wouldn't move.

Texas, in Arkansas for college. I know Texas has a lot of options, but I do not like this region that I was born in. I'm pretty much the complete opposite of the vast majority of people and atheists get discriminated in the Bible Belt. That's why we both want to get out of this area.

 

[doctor_crane]

If it is that serious why don't you guys live together whereever you end up? I don't see why she needs to stay with her parents?

She has another 2 years of college to go. She is transferring to Washington. I graduate Spring 2017.

 

[doctor_crane]

A few things...

1. I second the "Why doesn't she move?" question.
2. Here are the residency requirements for UWSOM: https://registrar.washington.edu/students/residency/residency-requirements/
Being a resident is more than just living in WA for a year. I think you'd need to check all these boxes before submitting your secondary, but I'm not sure.
3. When I interviewed at UW, they said that they try to offer as many OOR acceptances as they have scholarships to cover them, so that OOR students paid the same tuition as IS students. Still, it's extremely difficult to get in as an OOR applicant.
4. WSU is opening a medical school: http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/education/wsu-med-school-hopes-to-enroll-students-in-2017/
OHSU is the only other medical school near Washington, and it also has strong in-state bias.
5. Even if you're a fantastic applicant, it's difficult and foolish to bank on getting into a certain school. And many things can happen in the next year or two that impact your med school decisions! Apply broadly and accept the fact that you may have to or want to move for medical school/residency.
6. Don't use tuition as your deciding factor. ****'s expensive everywhere.
7. It's "University of Washington" not "Washington University." Sorry, I don't mean to be snarky; it's just a pet peeve. Grew up in Washington

Thank you very much and I agree completely. I'm able to let people go even if I do not want to, but she is really upset about leaving and it's kind of heartbreaking (she broke down crying when she found out she was moving). I'm her first serious boyfriend, so she may not know how much things can change over time in relationships. We are very similar. We both are atheists, that is very hard to find in Arkansas and very important as trying to date religious people when I'm a very serious atheist is pretty much impossible (because the religious person cannot handle me, but I don't mind them). We both do not drink alcohol or abuse drugs and have decided that it does more harm than good (and we do not want to date people who abuse drugs by getting drunk and such). We have the same humor (and she is probably comedian material), same political beliefs, same opinions on every issue so far, same major, think the same things, compatible personalities, all that stuff. Oh yeah, and she is gorgeous, I do not really care about looks, but seriously... She's well above average.
It's hard to say that I will find someone like her again, although I said that about my first girlfriend, but she was religious of course, the only factor that ended it for us.

Anyway, I was trying to avoid the soap box, but I think some of you were curious.
So the verdict is pretty much what I could have guessed, but now I have information to back it up.

I can move there after graduating, get a job as some lab technician or biochemistry job (preferably at a hospital) and be a resident of Washington for a year. By then, I will be the age most people graduate college. Then I apply to medical school at UW and surrounding areas. If I get accepted into UW, I go there. If not, she will have to make sacrifices and move where I go to school. But she may want to go to grad school, and if she does that may end it because she may only get accepted to somewhere far from where I'm at medical school. This does not make my journey to Washington a total loss because I did not enjoy Arkansas anyway... Or she goes to a grad school close or decides to get a job and probably go to grad school later... Lots of variables here.

Or I can apply to schools around me, go to medical school there, and probably live in the Bible Belt for another 15 years. Dump my girlfriend, find someone else, live life.

Nothing wrong with the Bible Belt, it's just not for me. But I've been here my entire life, so it's not like I even know what Washington is like. My girlfriend says it's way better, I guess she can tell me when she gets there.

 

[doctor_crane]

Getting into ANY medical school is a difficult feat that only 35-40% of applicants achieve, meaning 60-65% do not. While your GPA is certainly competitive, without an MCAT score, you have no idea exactly how competitive an applicant you really are. And aiming for one specific school is SUCH a low odds proposal -- like 2-3% low odds -- so NOT something to plan your life around. Do the math to find out what percentage of "in region" students are accepted before you decide to move and spend a few years establishing residency.

If becoming a doctor is your dream, make that your first priority. Sure, apply to Washington and Oregon, but ALSO apply where your chances are best, which will probably include your current state. (May not be your first choice but getting accepted sure beats not getting accepted anywhere.)

I hear you about not feeling like you fit into your current state's culture. This can absolutely intensify your feelings of connectedness to your GF and may be clouding your judgement. Finding a person with whom you 'fit' is an incredibly important thing. Yet you also state that this is only your second serious relationship -- so again, I'd urge caution in building your relationship and life-plan around someone at this point. Alternately, if you're certain she's the right person, consider getting engaged and having her follow you to medical school, wherever that happens to be, with Washington first on your list.

Agreed with all the above

Fortunately, I will have a year to determine that, but she moves this summer and me knowing about long distance relationships and how awful they are, makes me think it's best to break up when she moves even if we both don't want to. But then again, we both do not date much (really do not have time for that) so it's not like I have to worry about cheating.

 

[parachichi]

Sounds like you're pretty flexible in your decision making, which is great! Applying in Texas increases your odds, but what good is applying in Texas if you'll be miserable there? You've got time to figure it out. Best of luck to you, and peep the "Moving without your SO" thread here: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/moving-without-your-so-for-med-school.1185367/

 

[ChrisMack390]

Don't assume you'll get into Washington or any other specific school. Even with killer stats that make you very likely to get into a medical school, any specific school is still a toss up.

 

[christmasindr]

Agreed with all the above

Fortunately, I will have a year to determine that, but she moves this summer and me knowing about long distance relationships and how awful they are, makes me think it's best to break up when she moves even if we both don't want to. But then again, we both do not date much (really do not have time for that) so it's not like I have to worry about cheating.

Long distance relationships are challenging, but doable ONLY if both parties are mature about it and committed to each other. From your message, it doesn't like she's flexible with compromising and moving to other places with you. But correct me if I am wrong.

Keep in mind for residency, fellowship, job, etc, you are likely to move again, so having someone who is not supportive with that will be extremely challenging.

 

[DokterMom]

Texas, in Arkansas for college. I know Texas has a lot of options, but I do not like this region that I was born in. I'm pretty much the complete opposite of the vast majority of people and atheists get discriminated in the Bible Belt. That's why we both want to get out of this area.

Down here, we atheists tend to stay closeted, but that is starting to change... And UT Dell is in Austin, so very progressive. UT Houston and UTSW are also relatively progressive -- certainly by Bible Belt standards. And Baylor the med school is NOT like Baylor the college.

Giving up residency in a 'good for medical school' state like Texas for one with tough odds like Washington -- well, that's a big commitment. FWIW, I don't think you'd have a hard time finding non- to minimally-religious people who don't abuse drugs in medical school.

 

[ifnotnowwren]

Well done @ifnotnowwren ! And the math is considerably more favorable than I expected. Was that the one school's In Region acceptance rate? Or all Washington State schools for all Washington state residents? (Not very familiar with WA state -- just that the one school is VERY highly ranked and nigh-impossible for OOS'ers to get into)

That was just that school - UWSOM! I think it may be their only MD.

 

[ortnakas]

It's always safer to assume you'll have to move for medical school. Even the most competitive applicants often do-- and UW's not the easiest school to get into.