MUA vs SJSM

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PaulRRT

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Hey guys, I got excepted into two Caribbean medical schools. Medical University of the Americas (Nevis island) and Saint James School of Medicine (Antigua). At MUA, I got excepted into premed gateway medical program which is one term long as I’m lacking some science courses. Taking my MCAT end if August.
SJSM is excepting me straight into their MD program.
MUA is more reputable and has title IV US gov loans (175k)
SJSM is all private loans (80k) and low reputation
MUA is good for all 50 states while SJMS is lacking about 10 states.
Both schools claim about 88% success rate of residency matching.
99% success rate step 1 test pass guarantee.
Which school should I go for?

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Don't go to a medical school that doesn't require an MCAT. Standardized test-taking is the name of the game. You need to know well ahead of time if you're able to handle rigorous large-volume tests. These schools are massaging their stats to the point that they are meaningless. All Caribbean schools do this, including the more reputable ones. If you're dead-set on going to the Caribbean, pick SGU or Ross. I'm entering PGY4 at a huge community mental health center in New York, we recruit heavily from FMGs and IMGs, and I couldn't tell you the last time I saw a resident from any of the other Caribbean schools. SGU or Ross, or don't go.
 
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Hey guys, I got excepted into two Caribbean medical schools. Medical University of the Americas (Nevis island) and Saint James School of Medicine (Antigua). At MUA, I got excepted into premed gateway medical program which is one term long as I’m lacking some science courses. Taking my MCAT end if August.
SJSM is excepting me straight into their MD program.
MUA is more reputable and has title IV US gov loans (175k)
SJSM is all private loans (80k) and low reputation
MUA is good for all 50 states while SJMS is lacking about 10 states.
Both schools claim about 88% success rate of residency matching.
99% success rate step 1 test pass guarantee.
Which school should I go for?

I don’t have all my science courses done, I still have at least a year left of schooling. So no I have not applied yet. I am 34 years old and I don’t feel like staying in school for very long. Caribbean is an optimal choice right now.

Imho, I think you should stay at least a year to try thing stateside. If you go MUA, you still have to do a year of pre-med anyway. If you do pre-med here in the U.S., it is cheaper to take courses at a community college or state university. And you also have time to study for the MCAT and apply for U.S. med schools.

You are probably aware that it is going to be harder to go Carib than U.S. Asides from the diffculties of being away very far from family and studying in a foreigh country, it is usually harder to make it through school there (the attrition rate is high for many reasons, one is that they let in many who do not belong there). Harder to get in residency, you usually have to score higher on Step exams than U.S. students. Many other competitive specialties are usually out of reach for Carib students.

Speaking about Step exams, Step 1 could be changed to P/F instead of being scored like the way it is now (check out Med Student's MD / DO here on SDN, it is a hot topic now). If changed to P/F, it would add another layer of difficulties for Carib students coming back to the U.S. for residency as traditionally they rely only on performance on Step exams to gain residency. This change is still being discussed but the tentative schedule is that the change could be implemented at the end of 2019 and throughout 2020. So it could be soon. Even if you have already decided to go Carib, I think you should wait a bit to see what is going to happen there to plan accordingly.

Speaking about age, I am older than you (40's) so I understand why you want to go Carib. But I think it is more advantage for you to stay in the U.S. to complete your pre-med study, take the MCAT, and try applying U.S. med schools.

Regarding MUA, per my research, there have been changes at MUA recently. (Do a search here, here are posts about MUA on SDN). I never went there so I have no idea what is going there. But I was not impressed much from talking with the admission office.

A lot of people recommend St. George, one of the big 4 (Ross, St. Geroge, AUC, Saba), and they have pre-med track and also have Title IV loan. My impression from talking with them was good, very informative.

I do not have any idea about SJSM. I saw a Youtube channel of a SJSM's grad who is doing residency in surgery. He seems doing well there.

If you have the money and do not care about Title IV loans, check out more schools. My impression with UMHS was excellent talking to their offices and allumni. They have 4 year and 5 year MD programs.

One important thing about Carib schools, of all the schools I talked too, they are very vague about how many rotation spots they have available for 3 year students. When you look at the large numbers of students they are taking in, it is clear that they are going to squeeze out a lot of students to make it fit the numbers of rotation that they have.

In short, it is good for you to stay to finish your pre-med study, take the MCAT, and try applying to U.S. med school first. It only takes about a year like you said but it will save you a lot work and trouble down the road.

PM me if you would like to discuss more or things you do not want to post publicly.

Don't go to a medical school that doesn't require an MCAT. Standardized test-taking is the name of the game. You need to know well ahead of time if you're able to handle rigorous large-volume tests. These schools are massaging their stats to the point that they are meaningless. All Caribbean schools do this, including the more reputable ones. If you're dead-set on going to the Caribbean, pick SGU or Ross. I'm entering PGY4 at a huge community mental health center in New York, we recruit heavily from FMGs and IMGs, and I couldn't tell you the last time I saw a resident from any of the other Caribbean schools. SGU or Ross, or don't go.

:thumbup:
 
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Hey guys, I got excepted into two Caribbean medical schools. Medical University of the Americas (Nevis island) and Saint James School of Medicine (Antigua). At MUA, I got excepted into premed gateway medical program which is one term long as I’m lacking some science courses. Taking my MCAT end if August.
SJSM is excepting me straight into their MD program.
MUA is more reputable and has title IV US gov loans (175k)
SJSM is all private loans (80k) and low reputation
MUA is good for all 50 states while SJMS is lacking about 10 states.
Both schools claim about 88% success rate of residency matching.
99% success rate step 1 test pass guarantee.
Which school should I go for?

I'm gona go head and say something you may not like but you need to hear it. You should finish all of your prereqs in the US, get a degree and apply to master programs (SMP). Even if it takes you another 2-3 years to get your stats up for a US DO school, you should do it, it is very worth it down the line. If somehow you don't have the stats for DO at that point...apply to Podiatry schools or Pharmacy or PA/NP. Yes, you should even consider doing nursing in the US than try for MD at one of schools you listed.

In other words, do everything you can to get into a program in the US..it might take some time but trust me...it is worth it than starting anywhere in the Caribbeans right now. I personally know ppl from AUA, MUA and AUC that are on their 3rd attempt at the match....2 already gave up and doing nursing now (with over 250K in debt and nothing to show for).

Only look into the Ross/SGU option if all stated above fails. Stay away from schools that do not require the MCAT for admissions and those with private loans.
 
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I personally know ppl from AUA, MUA and AUC that are on their 3rd attempt at the match....2 already gave up and doing nursing now (with over 250K in debt and nothing to show for).
AUC and Ross are practically the same school

When did AUC lose favor over Ross, from my perspective its always been the opposite
 
Only look into the Ross/SGU option if all stated above fails. Stay away from schools that do not require the MCAT for admissions and those with private loans.
[/QUOTE]
Thank
MUA requires MCATs and has Title IV loans.
That would be my choice, thank you for your input.
 
Only look into the Ross/SGU option if all stated above fails. Stay away from schools that do not require the MCAT for admissions and those with private loans.

Thank
MUA requires MCATs and has Title IV loans.
That would be my choice, thank you for your input.

You might have to check to see if MUA's pre-med pathway is qualified for Title IV loan. If it is not, you might have to borrow private loan for that.

I have not checked that with MUA but St. George told me that only their MD program (grad / professional) was qualified for Title IV / U.S. Fed student loans, not their pre-med program (undegrad).

Anyway, you might want to research more about the recent changes at MUA. I have heard many negative feedbacks. Personally, I was not impressed from talking to them. From my interaction with them, they seemed uncaring, unprofessional, and disorganized. (I am not trying to bash any school, just try to share my own experience with you). If you had the money, I think you should make a trip down there to check the school out and talk to the students there first to see if things are going to be what you expect.

I still think you should try to finish your pre-med study, take the MCAT, and try applying in the U.S. first for all the reasons I said above. But I do not really know your personal situation. Hope you make the best choice for your situation. Good luck!!!
 
Both programs are fantastic options for someone who aspires to one day work as a full-time Uber driver.
 
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Both programs are fantastic options for someone who aspires to one day work as a full-time Uber driver.

well, I understand why you are saying that. It is easier for U.S. med grads for sure. You should always try the U.S. route first. IMHO, for some people, it is better to have some chance than no chance at all.

But check out U.S. IMG's 2018 match result,



2,900 U.S. IMGs (57.1%) match to residencies in 2018. “The success of IMGs in this year’s Match demonstrates the importance of this talented and qualified pool of applicants for U.S. training programs,” said ECFMG President & CEO William Pinsky, M.D. “The growth in available residency positions, particularly in primary-care specialties like Internal Medicine, represents continued opportunities for IMGs interested in training in the United States.”



International Medical Graduates in the US Physician Workforce,
Padmini D. Ranasinghe, MD, MPH
Abstract

International medical graduates (IMGs) play a vital role in the US health care system. These graduates represent 26% of physicians in practice and 24% of residents in specialty programs. All IMGs go through US medical licensing examination and credentialing verification to receive certification from the Educational Commission for Foreign Medical Graduates to become eligible to enter the US graduate medical education process. Compared with US graduates, IMGs tend to practice in primary care specialties and in underserved and rural areas. The author summarizes available data regarding IMGs in training and in practice to convey the role IMGs play in the US health care system.


Ten Year Projections for US Residency Positions: Will There be Enough Positions to Accommodate the Growing Number of U.S. Medical School Graduates?
Hayek S1, Lane S2, Fluck M2, Hunsinger M2, Blansfield J2, Shabahang M2.
CONCLUSIONS:
Despite the increasing number of medical school graduates, our model suggests the rate of growth of residency positions continues to be higher than the rate of growth of U.S. medical school graduates. While there is no apparent shortage of categorical positions overall, highly competitive subspecialties like orthopedics may develop a shortage within the next ten years.
 
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Outcomes can only be interpreted when the denominator is known.
There are no denominators in these news releases.

one denominator I think we know is the numbers of IMGs / FMGs entering the Match every year. That was probably how they got that figure (57.1%) for U.S. IMGs in 2018.
 
one denominator I think we know is the numbers of IMGs / FMGs entering the Match every year. That was probably how they got that figure (57.1%) for U.S. IMGs in 2018.
The denominators in OP's query would be the number that matriculated, then the number that entered the match from each of the schools in consideration. Then the number that matched could be interpreted. It would be even more useful to know the number that matched into a categorical program, since that is needed for IMG's to become licensed.
 
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The denominators in OP's query would be the number that matriculated, then the number that entered the match from each of the schools in consideration. Then the number that matched could be interpreted. It would be even more useful to know the number that matched into a categorical program, since that is needed for IMG's to become licensed.

yes, I was talking more in general. I just wanted to point out that it is still possible to become a doctor going Carib / oversea route. The success rate is small but not lottery kind of chance as many make it out to be. To max out this chance, one should stick with the Big 4 (Ross, St. George, AUC, Saba) as many already recommend. Once you make it out there and have good Step scores, you have a decent chance to match (accord to the 57.1% odd for U.S. IMG /FMG in 2018, and about a little more or less the same odd the years before). One caution is that, with the Steps might potentially go P/F, it is not clear how Carib students are still going to do this. One thing is clear is there is still an excess of residency spots in the near future and those spots are going to have to be filled somehow.

Another thing that I just remember now to mention to the OP: MUA wants its students to write a thesis paper before being allowed to start 3rd year rotations (= another hoop / gate / delay to control the numbers of students for their limited rotation spots). I am not sure if the OP is still checking this thread but hope other people could use the info.
 
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Anyone here who is actually in the Caribbean med school right now or graduated one?
Would really like to hear their opinion.
 
4th year, whats ur question
What school do u go to and do you feel like your school is preparing you well and is making you competitive when it comes to residency matching?
Is title IV loan also paying for your housing or just your tuition?
Thank you
 
What school do u go to and do you feel like your school is preparing you well and is making you competitive when it comes to residency matching?
Is title IV loan also paying for your housing or just your tuition?
Thank you
AUC
No school is going to prepare you, that's just not how it works.
Classwork is notoriously focused on minutia while step studying is done on your own (as it should be)
Title IV? IDK man I have grad plus loans I think, they get released to the school to cover tuition, then the school refunds you the remainder for living. While I've been in school they've reduced this amount substantially, from ~15k per semester to 11K
 
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how many hours a day do you study on top of class time?
Would you suggest study in groups or study by yourself? What was more productive for you
 
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how many hours a day do you study on top of class time?
Would you suggest study in groups or study by yourself? What was more productive for you
by yourself as much as you can
skip class if there's no attendance, watch lectures on 2.5x speed
or just study while in class in the back with headphones on if attendance is mandatory
 
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Anyone here who is actually in the Caribbean med school right now or graduated one?
Would really like to hear their opinion.
If you end up going to SJSM, keep your expectations super low. The quoted prices are not correct on their website. You will pay more, and you won't know where the money is going. You'll be paying for an opportunity to write your Step. You will have to teach yourself almost everything. You will not learn about how medicine is practiced in the Western world and if you want to have a fighting chance to succeed, you'll have to have a lot of support. You'll do better if you have a family member or close friend who is a practicing doctor in the US or Canada, to set you straight after you learn the wrong information. On every break you have, go home and talk to this person so that you can stay on the right track with your studies.

Only do this if you are truly convinced that you can put aside the injustice of what you'll go through. You will be a cash cow for someone who set up a for-profit medical school with the sole purpose of extracting money from you. You have a 15% chance of making it out of basic sciences at the end of MD5, and no one you speak to on the island or at head office is going to care about that - it is status quo.

You will be on your own academically and emotionally. The people that survive SJSM and get through it without taking breaks, are people that are resilient and can make success happen without help. Having worked in healthcare previously would also help, as you will know if something you are told is straight up garbage info.

If in the past you were the kind of university student that liked going to class to soak up all sorts of interesting and beneficial information, and you looked up to your professors for being informed and balanced in their approach to the topics they taught, then get that idea out of your head now. This is not how it is.

Don't get involved in SGA unless you're trying to pad your resume. It is a joke - a charade that is tolerated by administration so that they can check that box when accreditors come by to assess the school. Nothing you do will change how the school does business. Do not show up thinking that things can change if only you brought it to their attention.

If you go to SJSM, make sure you have lots of extra money to pay for your clinicals well before you start them. Often, you'll have paid for your entire clinical component before you start it. The billing cycle does not rest if you have to take extra time to rewrite your NBME or study for Step 1. Have hard copies of books so that you can study when the power goes out. If you are a female, get ready to get sexually harassed every day - you cannot escape this. You will get harassed in the most disgusting ways you've ever experienced. If you are male, get ready to watch it happen while recognizing that you can't do anything about it.

Start deconstructing any idealistic views you have now, so that it doesn't destroy you while you're on the island.
 
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Is class lecture that useless? Why
Many of the classes at SJSM will take you in the wrong direction in terms of what you should be focussing on. Unfortunately, you cannot fully disregard the lectures because you will tested on the material. At the very least, go over the PowerPoints from the lectures before you're tested on the material covered. Do your best to know what is expected knowledge for the USMLE/NBME before the term starts and make sure you learn all these things along with whatever random stuff you're being taught in the lecture. If you're lucky, there will be a good amount of overlap between class lectures and high yield topics, and you won't have to learn too much random stuff from your lecturer. At SJSM your final block 4 exam for each semester will be a single subject NBME shelf exam (mostly). That's a good thing because you can stop learning all the random stuff that isn't high yield in block 3 and focus on legit high yield topics for that last month of the term. It sucks that the lectures aren't useful for the USMLE. You need to work around that though, because attendance is mandatory and some instructors pull test questions directly from their lecture slides.
 
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Many of the classes at SJSM will take you in the wrong direction in terms of what you should be focussing on. Unfortunately, you cannot fully disregard the lectures because you will tested on the material. At the very least, go over the PowerPoints from the lectures before you're tested on the material covered. Do your best to know what is expected knowledge for the USMLE/NBME before the term starts and make sure you learn all these things along with whatever random stuff you're being taught in the lecture. If you're lucky, there will be a good amount of overlap between class lectures and high yield topics, and you won't have to learn too much random stuff from your lecturer. At SJSM your final block 4 exam for each semester will be a single subject NBME shelf exam (mostly). That's a good thing because you can stop learning all the random stuff that isn't high yield in block 3 and focus on legit high yield topics for that last month of the term. It sucks that the lectures aren't useful for the USMLE. You need to work around that though, because attendance is mandatory and some instructors pull test questions directly from their lecture slides.
I appreciate your information, I will actually be going to MUA. Hopefully they are better than that as they are higher tier school.
 
Hey guys, I got excepted into two Caribbean medical schools. Medical University of the Americas (Nevis island) and Saint James School of Medicine (Antigua). At MUA, I got excepted into premed gateway medical program which is one term long as I’m lacking some science courses. Taking my MCAT end if August.
SJSM is excepting me straight into their MD program.
MUA is more reputable and has title IV US gov loans (175k)
SJSM is all private loans (80k) and low reputation
MUA is good for all 50 states while SJMS is lacking about 10 states.
Both schools claim about 88% success rate of residency matching.
99% success rate step 1 test pass guarantee.
Which school should I go for?

The second post, right after OP's original post, was deleted (obviously not by me) by someone for some reason? It contained no quote from OP, or anyone else's, and was one-sentence post, where I asked the OP one single question, "Have you tried to apply to U.S. med schools yet?"

I find it very disturbing that posts are deleted seemingly for no reason at all. Nobody informed me about the deletion and removal either. May the moderators tell me what happened here?
 
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The second post, right after OP's original post, was deleted (obviously not by me) by someone for some reason? It contained no quote from OP, or anyone else's, and was one-sentence post, where I asked the OP one single question, "Have you tried to apply to U.S. med schools yet?"

I find it very disturbing that posts are deleted seemingly for no reason at all. Nobody informed me about the deletion and removal either. May the moderators tell me what happened here?
Hey, no idea why the post got deleted but I did not apply to med schools yet here in United States because I don’t have all my science pre-reqs done. And the ones I had done before are like 10 years old so I would have to retake them all. That is the primary reason why.
 
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you got rejected from SGU/Ross/AUC?
Well, I do not have all of my science prerequisites done, that is why I did not get in into those top-tier programs you mentioned above. MUA has a Gateway program that is only one term long. After that, it’s MD1 for me.
 
Hey, no idea why the post got deleted but I did not apply to med schools yet here in United States because I don’t have all my science pre-reqs done. And the ones I had done before are like 10 years old so I would have to retake them all. That is the primary reason why.

yes, I have seen other posters and their posts removed and banned for no apparent reason before. Now it happened to me too. So my post there is more about letting others on SDN know about this situation.

I am in the same boat too (and older than you). I looked into MUA and SABA and struck those choices out because of what I read about recent changes at those schools. There are better schools like St. George, Ross, AUC first (I know for sure that St. George has also a pre-med track) as they are more stable and established. If Steps became P/F, residency PDs might possibly rely more on the reputation / track records of the med school you went to to pick the candidates.

If you decided on MUA, fly there and check them out first before committing. This is a very important decision of your life so do everything you can to find out about what you are getting into first.

Imho, going Carib might not save you anytime at all because all the possible delays (from passing classes, thesis papers, rotation placement, getting residency, etc). Spending a year or two to complete your prereqs and get a degree seems more beneficial to you. If you can get in U.S. med school, your odd to become a doctor is way better. You also have more resources and support going to schools in the U.S. At the end, you might spend about the same amount of time and efforts but your odds are way better.

Going Carib is the last option you should consider. Unless you know there is no way you can get into U.S. schools. For example, some U.S. adcoms and faculty here on SDN told us outright that the cutoff for their schools is 50. (Of course, I do not see that adviertised on any school's websites because that is age discrimination and illegal and they would get sued by everyone to oblivion. But age discrimination is real and I expect that people are good at hiding their discriminatory actions in real life). So, unless you are 50 or older, please try U.S. first (I know I have already said that multiple times. Sorry).

GL!
 
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yes, I have seen other posters and their posts removed and banned for no apparent reason before. Now it happened to me too. So my post there is more about letting others on SDN know about this situation.

I am in the same boat too (and older than you). I looked into MUA and SABA and struck those choices out because of what I read about recent changes at those schools. There are better schools like St. George, Ross, AUC first (I know for sure that St. George has also a pre-med track) as they are more stable and established. If Steps became P/F, residency PDs might possibly rely more on the reputation / track records of the med school you went to to pick the candidates.

If you decided on MUA, fly there and check them out first before committing. This is a very important decision of your life so do everything you can to find out about what you are getting into first.

Imho, going Carib might not save you anytime at all because all the possible delays (from passing classes, thesis papers, rotation placement, getting residency, etc). Spending a year or two to complete your prereqs and get a degree seems more beneficial to you. If you can get in U.S. med school, your odd to become a doctor is way better. You also have more resources and support going to schools in the U.S. At the end, you might spend about the same amount of time and efforts but your odds are way better.

Going Carib is the last option you should consider. Unless you know there is no way you can get into U.S. schools. For example, some U.S. adcoms and faculty here on SDN told us outright that the cutoff for their schools is 50. (Of course, I do not see that adviertised on any school's websites because that is age discrimination and illegal and they would get sued by everyone to oblivion. But age discrimination is real and I expect that people are good at hiding their discriminatory actions in real life). So, unless you are 50 or older, please try U.S. first (I know I have already said that multiple times. Sorry).

GL!
Thanks for the advice, I’m already committed to go to MUA. Starting my classes September 3rd. They have pretty good track record of matching their residencies for their graduates, I don’t think it’s gonna be a problem once I make it to that point.
 
Thanks for the advice, I’m already committed to go to MUA. Starting my classes September 3rd. They have pretty good track record of matching their residencies for their graduates, I don’t think it’s gonna be a problem once I make it to that point.
bro their match list looks like @ss

they matched like 80 people out of probably 300 who started

95 percent FM or IM

Their match list doesn't even tell you post-graduate year lol
 
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bro their match list looks like @ss

they matched like 80 people out of probably 300 who started

95 percent FM or IM

Their match list doesn't even tell you post-graduate year lol
Their class size is about 70 people to begin with, plus take in to account people failing/dropping out. Website states 88% match for everyone that applied. US schools is like 95%. Not too bad.
 
Their class size is about 70 people to begin with
Trimesters, plus their website says 80-90 so thats 3 x 90 ~ 300

50 % will never make it through

Then you have to account for the people that have to go through 2 or 3 cycles to match (which they dont tell you)

I wish u good luck but bro just don't do it
 
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Their class size is about 70 people to begin with, plus take in to account people failing/dropping out. Website states 88% match for everyone that applied. US schools is like 95%. Not too bad.

Withdraw from this hellhole while you still can. Finish your pre-reqs, take the MCAT, and do this the right way. What you're planning on doing now may feel like a convenient shortcut, but it will most likely prove to be a dead end. You are on the brink of making a terrible mistake—quite possibly a life-defining mistake.

Out of 240-360 entering students, only ~100 ended up in MUA's 2019 match list. Those who didn't make it through (the majority of MUA students) will never become US physicians. Ever.

Here's an informative quote from a former MUA student posting in 2017:

I don't know why but I created an account to respond to your post so that I can warn you and others about this school. I believe you are not properly informed about this school and I'll at least try and give you a heads up.

I withdrew from MUA Nevis last year because the school is a scam. I fell for the trap that somehow I was going to become a doctor in their program when I admittedly was not a strong candidate and was still accepted.

Here is the irony with a school like MUA and almost every other Caribbean program. They will take almost anybody as long as you just MEET the requirements save for maybe SGU or Ross. Even SGU was taking people with sub 3.0 cumulative GPA's in the last five years. Getting in is the easy part. The hard part is actually getting off the island. And I will tell you why...

The students that actually match into a residency are THE TOP students at the school. From my experience I would say these students are on par with US and Canadian applicants. The problem is that is a minuscule percentage of the overall class. The clinical dean comes to the island and sneakily tells us that we will probably graduate with people from three maybe four other classes and that's because not everyone matches on their first shot. That match list is bogus, it doesn't tell you anything about the student. For all you know, someone could be matching into IM for FM when they graduated two or three years ago!

Pay close attention to the curriculum. You will be taking 34 credits in med 2 with mandatory attendance. Until you experience that, you will never understand how that plays out. It is a recipe for disaster. Where in the US do you take 34 credit hours of basic sciences in 15 weeks? If you drop one course, they will put you on academic probation for not one but TWO terms and you are on probation THE DAY YOU DROP so it's more like 2.5 terms. If you drop a course or fail a course on probation, you are dismissed. And say goodbye to your financial aid if you are taking under 17 credits; another way for them to get you to leave. The policies are designed to weed out at least half the student body and then get a nice little number by med 5 where they can weed you out some more so that the student body size correlates w/ their available clinical spots. I was trying to upload some pics but the system is flagging them as spam. But, and this is hilarious, the med 5 class room is 1/2 the size of the med 1 classroom. Anybody in their right mind should know why that is. Beyond that, administration on the island is useless. You'll be in a foreign country and the school will tell you to address your concerns with the office in Massachusetts. I knew someone who got dismissed and was sitting in their dorm room calling Massachusetts regarding the dismissal policies when the admin office was literally two blocks away.

Dr. C is the Dean of Basic Sciences. He is not accessible...you will never get to talk to him and he doesn't want to talk to you because he knows most of the students won't even make it. He is there to crack the whip. He will like you if you are one of the top students but like I said earlier that is a tiny exclusive group. Most of the students at the school are immature, have no relevant medical experience, and quite honestly don't even look like medical students. Most are really nice though but they just don't look like medical students for some reason. It's weird, if you go there you will see.

I'm saying all of this because I really am trying to convince you or anybody not to go to this school. It is HELL ON EARTH. Apparently 10 or so people out of 50 or so in the med 5 class passed the NBME comp. Do the math on that. 20% of the med 5 class move on to sit for STEP1 while the rest have to return to Nevis to write the comp again. But they tell you they have a >90% first time pass rate for STEP. Yeah >90% for THOSE THAT MAKE IT TO STEP. What did I tell you about the exclusive bunch? Those are the students that make up that 90% number. Oh and MUA has a sneaky med 6 class that you probably don't know about. After comp, you have to write a research paper for "med 6." If the school does not accept the paper, you DO NOT SIT FOR STEP! So you can pass the five terms, pass the comp, but they will screw you with the paper which you have no control over all because they are short on clinical spots.

Also, class was just harder than it should have been. Most of the professors speak with a heavy accent and worse, they write the exam questions in broken English or use phraseology that you may not be accustomed to as an American or Canadian citizen. You might not think that is a big deal but it is a huge deal in practice and when you encounter it on a daily basis. They also play around with the test scores to make sure that they hit their quotas. For example, we didn't get our anatomy final grades back for five days and when we ran into the professors they just kept saying "we're working on the numbers." They were working on the numbers because they had to fail like 10 people by putting a higher weight on the shelf and a lesser weight on the in-house final. Keep in mind, we were not told how much each exam would be worth. That decision was made after the scores were in. Since most people failed the shelf, that was given more weight because the in-house final average was actually a pass. Get used to those politics at these schools. They also constantly change the curriculum. There is a course taken during the first term called "scientific foundations." One term it will contain genetics, the next no genetics. One term they taught anatomy one term and then embryo the next term. The next term they taught them together in one term. I never met one person at that school who had a rock solid system down. Everybody just kept saying "man that was hard." Well medical school is hard but it should not be impossible or you shouldn't be stressing the way some of these students are during finals. It was just an overall weird experience and to this day I believe there is a system to all of it and that system is to fail out a significant amount of the class.

A lot of people transfer out of MUA after the comp and do clinicals at other schools so maybe that's why you don't see a whole lot of MUA grads out there even though the school has been around since 1998. It's a real ****t show at this school and most everybody has been groomed to accept it. I can write you a book about all the crap I saw over there and the unrealistic expectations administration had. During my final term there, the Dean instituted a policy where they started to test us on pre-reading assignments because word got back that the clinical students were lacking in general knowledge of basic sciences concepts. Do you see the cycle?

I will repeat it again, MUA was HELL ON EARTH. Straight A students were struggling once they got to the path, physio, and pharm in the upper terms and every day was stressful and I felt like I had a gun to my head all the time. It was no walk in the park and I honestly didn't feel like I was learning; I felt like I was cramming. The short story is it's not a good school and you will be taking a huge risk. The program is designed to push you till you can be pushed no more. It is by no means realistic when you compare it to even other established Caribbean programs and certainly US MD or DO programs.

If you don't have a 3.5+ and a high MCAT score/or excellent test-taking skills coming in, you will guaranteed not make it out of this school in four years if you do at all because you just won't be able to keep up. The irony is with those stats, you should be applying to a US school in the first place. On a side note, I have the utmost of respect for anyone who has made it out of MUA in four years and matched...regardless of specialty.

A few more things...

My definition of "scam" is to swindle. MUA fits my definition of the word scam and that is why I choose to call the school a scam.

If you are Canadian, clinical dean said something like this..."things will be harder for Canadians."

Don't compare MUA to Saba, rejected Saba applicants are automatically sent to MUA...there are a bunch of them there. MUA is not big 4 or 5 and not even close. California doesn't matter unless you plan on practicing in California. I don't even know why some people make a big fuss about this. You're an IMG and yet people still bitch about California like somehow it makes the IMG stigma less of an issue. You will do just fine in the world of medicine as an IMG from a school w/o California approval so don't lose sleep over it. And I hope you know you can still practice in California even if you're not from a California approved school. I forget the process but I called the California board in 2013 so yeah it can happen.

Pre-clinical grades DO MATTER. If you fail one course at MUA, say goodbye to any chance at surgery. In the US you can just pass, in the Caribbean administration will tell you 82 or better = the start of success/interviews.

It's more than hard work. There is a system to succeeding here. If you don't understand that system and how to be efficient, you'll just be lost because the program is abnormal. I still have the grades stats for med 1-4. They are all over the place. There are only 4-5 people consistently getting A's and I don't even know if it's the same people!

You CANNOT study basic sciences in 20 months. Department chairperson said "we need five years to teach you this stuff." All Caribbean programs are accelerated.

One professor broke it down to me like this..."When I was teaching at a US school, we taught them more [material] but here we only teach you guys what you need to know because there isn't a lot of time."

Oh and the guy from MUA who got the surgery spot at Hopkins?...OUTLIER. You'll end up in primary care from this school.
 
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The second post, right after OP's original post, was deleted (obviously not by me) by someone for some reason? It contained no quote from OP, or anyone else's, and was one-sentence post, where I asked the OP one single question, "Have you tried to apply to U.S. med schools yet?"

I find it very disturbing that posts are deleted seemingly for no reason at all. Nobody informed me about the deletion and removal either. May the moderators tell me what happened here?
Moderators have deleted no posts in this thread.
Was there a link to a for profit site? Those are not permitted and may be removed.
 
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MD vs DO degree
“In 2020, the 3,109 residency positions offered in 2017 by AOA-approved programs will become available to graduates of MD programs as a result of the merger between the ACGME and the AOA. No longer will these spots be exclusively available to DOs without competition from MDs.”
This is a direct quote from their website, any comments on this as far as getting more residency positions goes?
 
Moderators have deleted no posts in this thread.
Was there a link to a for profit site? Those are not permitted and may be removed.

no link, no quote from anyone. The post's content was only one question, "Have you tried to apply to U.S. med schools yet?"

At least both the OP and I know that the post was there but got deleted by someone by some reason.
 
MD vs DO degree
“In 2020, the 3,109 residency positions offered in 2017 by AOA-approved programs will become available to graduates of MD programs as a result of the merger between the ACGME and the AOA. No longer will these spots be exclusively available to DOs without competition from MDs.”
This is a direct quote from their website, any comments on this as far as getting more residency positions goes?
I've spoken to a PD that said he wanted to take a couple carib students last year but couldn't bc this hadnt happened yet for their program.

It will only help Caribs and hurt DOs
 
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I've spoken to a PD that said he wanted to take a couple carib students last year but could bc this hadnt happened yet for their program.

It will only help Caribs and hurt DOs

If we know for sure that they will interview Carib MDs. Some U.S. MD residency programs do not interview or take Carib ever.
 
what does that have to do with anything

I was responding to the point that the merger will benefit Carib students and hurt DO. I was saying that we do not really know that for sure as we do not know yet that those DO programs will take Carib MD after the merge. Let's wait and see.
 
I am a graduate from MUA (class of 2015). Couples matched into IM. Now in my second year cardiology fellowship down in Miami.

Happy to answer questions
 
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I am a graduate from MUA (class of 2015). Couples matched into IM. Now in my second year cardiology fellowship down in Miami.

Happy to answer questions
That’s awesome, finally someone who actually went through the program.
What was your USMLE score step 1?
 
That’s awesome, finally someone who actually went through the program.
What was your USMLE score step 1?

Step 1 - 245
Step 2 - 255
Step 3 - 230 I believe
 
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Well, a lot of what's been said about MUA above is true. My class started off with ~100 people in med 1 and probably ~30-40 of us eventually matched. The odds aren't pretty.

If you're headed down there, you've got to go with a particular mindset; mainly that you're there to test how much you can really accomplish if you really push yourself mentally. If you feel you were the kind of student who could study a couple days before the exam and get a C or D, this is going the time to study every day, all semester long, and get the highest score possible.

If you keep the same mentality as before, you will not match. No room anymore for Cs and Ds (probably not even Bs). Its blunt and simple, but true.

Identify the top 5 people in the class and try to 'compete' with them in terms of grades and emulate them in terms of study habits and work ethic.

It's pretty extreme odds in general going to a Caribbean school and hoping to match to a decent place, but with enough dedication and some baseline smarts, its very doable. When you make it through the other side you learn a lot about what you can really do with enough motivation.
 
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Well, a lot of what's been said about MUA above is true. My class started off with ~100 people in med 1 and probably ~30-40 of us eventually matched. The odds aren't pretty.

If you're headed down there, you've got to go with a particular mindset; mainly that you're there to test how much you can really accomplish if you really push yourself mentally. If you feel you were the kind of student who could study a couple days before the exam and get a C or D, this is going the time to study every day, all semester long, and get the highest score possible.

If you keep the same mentality as before, you will not match. No room anymore for Cs and Ds (probably not even Bs). Its blunt and simple, but true.

Identify the top 5 people in the class and try to 'compete' with them in terms of grades and emulate them in terms of study habits and work ethic.

It's pretty extreme odds in general going to a Caribbean school and hoping to match to a decent place, but with enough dedication and some baseline smarts, its very doable. When you make it through the other side you learn a lot about what you can really do with enough motivation.
Thank you for the info. So out of those 100 people that started Med1, how many made it to med5 and applied for residency?
 
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