My journey and decision to podiatry....

[OnePodRanger]

Hello possible future podiatry students,

I would like to discuss why and how I got into podiatry.

Like maybe some of you, I was not sure of what medical profession I wanted to become (optometry, MD, DO, dental, and of course, podiatry). I am going to admit, podiatry at first was my back up profession since my MCAT scores were not that great (490 and 495) but my GPA was a 3.63. Becoming a DO was the ultimate goal of mine and so, I applied for DO (20 schools) and only got one interview (currently waitlisted). I thought that I might have to take a gap year(s) and spend so much time, studying for the MCAT over and over again. It was painful and discouraging to hear that I might not be "good enough" for DOs. One day, I received an email from Kent State University to suggest podiatry and at first, I was not interested. I was blinded by the"lack of respect" reputation it gives and looked at nothing but the negatives. Under pressure of possibly taking a gap year, I tried podiatry to see how it goes. So, I shadowed, read, watched, and breathed podiatry during the Fall of 2017 to see how it is a profession.

Boy, I should be totally slapped by all podiatry students (past, present, and future). Podiatry is a profession that I totally fell in love with and completely changed my mind of becoming a DO into a podiatrist. I applied to the 2017-2018 cycle for only 6 schools and got multiple interviews. I realized that the reason that DO schools were not giving me interviews was because I truly did not want to become a DO and saw it as a suit that did not truly fit me, even though it looked nice.

I got accepted to Kent State University and most likely, I will attend there, loud and proud. For people struggling to find what profession is for you, try considering podiatry because it is a profession I really underestimate but at the end, it is a respected profession that might make you feel satisfied with your career.

Hope this helped when considering into podiatry!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[heybrother]

I hope you do continue to love it, but you've fallen into the "they love me and .. I guess now I love them too" trap. No one likes being rejected and in your moment of need the podiatry schools have done what they do - they accept everyone. They make you feel flattered with their near instantaneous offers of interview and acceptance. They offer you some money. You've been sitting by the phone/email waiting for those 20 DO schools who probably made you pay secondaries and left you feeling strung out. You're making a decision that will last the rest of your life and cost $300K because you didn't want to take 1 additional year to improve your application and study for the MCAT.

Don't bother writing a snarky reply about the profession being awesome. I've seen the best (its great) and the worst (there's reasons we don't get respect) of it. I offer this to you as a devil's advocate. Everyone wants to be accepted. It influences us. I had classmates who were going to change their residency ranking because a program they didn't really want said they'd rank them first.

 

[OnePodRanger]

They weren't giving you interviews because of your poor MCAT. I had a poor MCAT as well, did a SMP, and got into a DO school.
That being said, if you're genuinely interested in Podiatry and know about the profession inside out, then congrats on getting in.

I called multiple schools and they said my secondary application was not a fit for their mission. I thought it was my MCAT score but they said it was mostly my secondary application.

 

[OnePodRanger]

You can continue to believe that if it helps you justify Podiatry.

Admissions is a strange process that could lead to multiple reasons, for me, it's mostly my secondary application. Others, it could the MCAT score.

 

[Weirdy]

I called multiple schools and they said my secondary application was not a fit for their mission. I thought it was my MCAT score but they said it was mostly my secondary application.

Pretty sure it was the MCAT.

DPM does not equal MD/DO. This was a hard pill to swallow even after getting accepted. My grades were no where near competitive enough for DO, not even close.

I looked at the good and bad of podiatry and accepted it based on my interests and where my grades were. Opto, dental, PA, nursing just didn't cut it- Even if some of those options had a greater return for time and money spent.

As long as you make your peace with this and don't replace it with another reason for being in podiatry, you will be fine.

Learn to like it for what it is.

 

[Weirdy]

Don't bother writing a snarky reply about the profession being awesome. I've seen the best (its great) and the worst (there's reasons we don't get respect) of it. I offer this to you as a devil's advocate. Everyone wants to be accepted. It influences us. I had classmates who were going to change their residency ranking because a program they didn't really want said they'd rank them first.

In your experience, should they have kept their rank list as is no matter what programs say? Asking because I don't know enough about it and am curious.

 

[de Ribas]

You can continue to believe that if it helps you justify Podiatry.

If you are getting in DO schools, you have to be ready to practice as FM or IM. (most likely). Not many people like it and some prefer podiatry over being in IM, ER or FM
I am sure there are numbers of people who go into podiatry for what it has to offer. There are students who go into podiatry with 3.6+ GPA and 500+ MCAT.

My state MD school has campus where average MCAT is 503. It means that about 40% have less than 500 score.

 

[Prehealth1011]

If you are getting in DO schools, you have to be ready to practice as FM or IM. (most likely). Not many people like it and some prefer podiatry over being in IM, ER or FM
I am sure there are numbers of people who go into podiatry for what it has to offer. There are students who go into podiatry with 3.6+ GPA and 500+ MCAT.

My state MD school has campus where average MCAT is 503. It means that about 40% have less than 500 score.

Sure, i don't disagree with any of that. I'm simply pointing out the fact that the 495 MCAT was the main reason the poster didn't get into DO schools, despite what he chooses to believe. I respect an honest "I chose Podiatry because i had a low MCAT" post rather than something that's fictional and unrealistic. I don't want a pre-DO to read OP's post and think Oh I'll just re-write my secondaries next year, my sub 490 MCAT is just fine.

 

[OnePodRanger]

Sure, i don't disagree with any of that. I'm simply pointing out the fact that the 495 MCAT was the main reason the poster didn't get into DO schools, despite what he chooses to believe. I respect an honest "I chose Podiatry because i had a low MCAT" post rather than something that's fictional and unrealistic. I don't want a pre-DO to read OP's post and think Oh I'll just re-write my secondaries next year, my sub 490 MCAT is just fine.

Like I said above, every applicant is different. MCAT is a factor, you are right with that statement. However, my MCAT was not the major issue in my case. My secondary essays were weak compared to other applicants and I understand that. I was not that dedicated to help the rural communities and to the DO philosophy. I met many DO students who had a weak MCAT but as an overall, received interviews based on their character, not just statistics. I did not mention in this post that I encourage individuals to think a weak MCAT is okay but it is not the end of the world when you have a weak MCAT score. If you don't believe me, that is fine but my reason is not "unrealistic and fictional" as you said. I have my reasons and other people have theirs.

 

[de Ribas]

Here is how I justified podiatry.

When I was first considering medicine I shadowed an MD geriatric physician and then a DO family doctor. The MD asked me why I wanted to go into medicine and after I gave my background story, my interest in helping others and personal experiences, the MD flat out discouraged me from becoming a doctor, I didn't ask why because I was too stunned. That sort of stuck in my head but I continued to pursue the career further.

During my senior year, after speaking with my pre-health adviser it was decided that going the DO route would be better than MD. My GPA being a 3.04c 3.29s (science might be higher considering DO does not include math) and MCAT 500 is right about average for Hispanics according to aacomas statistics. Since I was not above average for DO and not wanting to do a gap year I was looking to find a plan B.

One day I got out of bed and experienced severe pain on the bottom of my foot. This lasted for 3 days and the pain grew worse. At work my boss recommended I go see her podiatrist and so I went limping to the clinic. ENTER PODIATRY!. Foot exam---Xray---Sonogram and it turned out I had severe tendonitis, I got a shot of cortisone and by the evening I was walking pain free. During the followup I thanked the doctor for healing me lol and then I asked If I can shadow, which he did allow. I had a blast shadowing. And I could then see myself doing podiatry as a career more so than geriatric medicine or family medicine. Then I found out podiatrist are also foot surgeons and then my plan B became a plan A.

Also the cost of education justified it. If accepted at NYCPM.
$100800 (tuition 4 years)
$24000 (rent 4 years, @$500/month for a room)
~$28000 (living expenses 4 years)
-scholarship if (offered)
-------------------------
~$152,000 for 4 years
less if scholarship.

Running the same scenario for most DO schools I kept hitting over $300k. except LECOM which came out to ~$230k.

Did you apply?

 

[heybrother]

That number seems grossly optimistic and isn't even in line with the numbers on NY's website for tuition.

 

[RedoxRxn]

@PashaOdesit not yet

@heybrother
I looked at this PDF.
nycpm.edu/tuition.pdf
This is the only tuition link I found from their website.

 

[heybrother]

Yes. You'll notice that Junior and Senior year list per semester and probably need to be multiplied by 2. I still think you'll find those assumptions to be grossly optimistic. Go look at some of the other schools websites for expenses they list and ask yourself if you really feel like everything is being included or if you may have some surprised expenses down the road.

 

[RedoxRxn]

@heybrother I see thanks for that

 

[silverturtle]

Pretty sure it was the MCAT.

DPM does not equal MD/DO. This was a hard pill to swallow even after getting accepted. My grades were no where near competitive enough for DO, not even close.

I looked at the good and bad of podiatry and accepted it based on my interests and where my grades were. Opto, dental, PA, nursing just didn't cut it- Even if some of those options had a greater return for time and money spent.

As long as you make your peace with this and don't replace it with another reason for being in podiatry, you will be fine.

Learn to like it for what it is.

Are you me? This is the EXACT mental process I went through.

 

[Weirdy]

Are you me? This is the EXACT mental process I went through.

Come visit CSPM some time.

 

[silverturtle]

Also the cost of education justified it. If accepted at NYCPM.
$100800 (tuition 4 years)
$24000 (rent 4 years, @$500/month for a room)
~$28000 (living expenses 4 years)
-scholarship if (offered)
-------------------------
~$152,000 for 4 years
less if scholarship.

First of all, I'm not sure where you plan to pay 500/month in rent anywhere near NYC. You're looking at around double that, at least.

My NYCPM cost estimation is as follows:

Tuition: $132,066 (collected from NYCPM's catalog)
Rent: $48,000 (based on $1000/month)
Living expenses: $28,000 [I'm using your estimate]
---------------------
Total: $208,066

Keep in mind, this total doesn't include health insurance, travel expenses, or any incidentals that can and will occur over a 4 year period. It's the bare minimum of what you can expect to shell out if you go to NYCPM.

 

[Cranjis McBasketball]

@silverturtle I know but I already live in NYC, the Bronx specifically. Rent in the Bronx is still cheap and is a convenient commute to Manhattan . I rent out a three bedroom for 1500/month and rent out rooms. I really only end up paying 300/month plus internet and utilities which comes out under 500/month for me.

Health insurance...I was hoping to waive since I already have.

Of course that scenario only works for NY. For any other school sure, the cost would skyrocket since I would have to move.

But I understand the point. It will come out closer to your number considering travel, books and the unforeseen. But I think it should come out 100k less than DO school.

Its less than DO, but they have more options for loan repayment and higher average salaries

 

[GypsyHummus]

Totally agree.

However, it is better to be a podiatrist than no doctor at all if you like medicine. Better than wasting your life in a hospital lab somewhere. At least the DPM is a terminal degree.

Personally, if I was a freshmen all over again, I would tell myself forget medicine and go to dental school. They are allowed a life outside of the medicine they practice.

I hope you do continue to love it, but you've fallen into the "they love me and .. I guess now I love them too" trap. No one likes being rejected and in your moment of need the podiatry schools have done what they do - they accept everyone. They make you feel flattered with their near instantaneous offers of interview and acceptance. They offer you some money. You've been sitting by the phone/email waiting for those 20 DO schools who probably made you pay secondaries and left you feeling strung out. You're making a decision that will last the rest of your life and cost $300K because you didn't want to take 1 additional year to improve your application and study for the MCAT.

Don't bother writing a snarky reply about the profession being awesome. I've seen the best (its great) and the worst (there's reasons we don't get respect) of it. I offer this to you as a devil's advocate. Everyone wants to be accepted. It influences us. I had classmates who were going to change their residency ranking because a program they didn't really want said they'd rank them first.

 

[Cranjis McBasketball]

Totally agree.

However, it is better to be a podiatrist than no doctor at all if you like medicine. Better than wasting your life in a hospital lab somewhere. At least the DPM is a terminal degree.

Personally, if I was a freshmen all over again, I would tell myself forget medicine and go to dental school. They are allowed a life outside of the medicine they practice.

Yeah but you gotta love dental medicine. I won't lie on days where I visit my parents after my physics class (I despise Physics) and I walk in and see my dad, who's an accountant for Amex and makes low 6 figures with amazing benefits, in his home office he works in, in basketball shorts and a t shirt with sportscenter on and munching away on some snacks, I think "man... he chose nicely." haha

 

[GypsyHummus]

True, but the dentist can always go solo and make crazy bucks.

Seriously, my GP dentist works something like 4 days/week and takes in prolly close to 400k. He is also using advantages like giving himself a lower salary and giving himself the other money as a business revenue, which I beloved is taxed at a lower rate.

For a pharmacist it's super hard to go into private practice.

Depends what dental school you go to and how willing you are to take out a practice loan on top of your ~400k dental school debt. As an associate, your income isn't really much different than a CVS pharmacist.

 

[de Ribas]

@GypsyHummus Since you mentioned private practice. I thought I would ask something I have been curious about regarding running a practice.

I don't know about much about the business of medicine, insurance etc. But here it goes.

I'll run these numbers under the average number of patients the pod I shadows sees in a day.

30 patients a day ( the pod I shadow see's +40/day but i'll keep it conservative)
*$100 per patient (is this conservative?)
*5days/week
*4weeks/month
*11months/year (lets take a month off)
-------------------
=$660,000
/2(50% overhead, not sure what is included in this but i'm guessing it is rent employees supplies etc)
------------------
=$330,000 Gross

Is that how you would simulate?

Sorry for the derail OP

I doubt you will see 30 patients every single day for 5 days of the week. Maybe in certain regions of the country. Even if, small percentage of visits will be follow-ups for which you wont bill or wont bill much.

As far as I see, the movement is away from private practice. The two podiatrists I have shadowed, both have owned successful private practice for 16 and 25 years. They have practiced in large metro area. They had to give up due not being able to absorb losses for like 5 years in a row. They both sold practices to a bigger group and practice in their own offices but for a bigger podiatry group in metro area. Both (individually) stated that their salary is very descent and they make about what they were making when they owned their own practice. Just because they are part of the big podiatry group network. Otherwise they could not fight insurance and pay all the costs.

 

[GypsyHummus]

I mean, when you ask people and they tell you, I usually take it with a grain of salt. Most people I ask tend to answer. If someone asked me what I make, I would be truthful with them. Now, they could be lying, I have no way of knowing, but I'm just relaying what they tell me.

Also, salary.com is a really good resource, id say even more than BLS because salary.com takes the data from employers.

Also, I have family in all specialties of medicine, even a pharmacist. They are both male and female. I would trust a figure they give me +\- 30k.

Same for a Dentist if you're already in 400k debt.
All private practice owners give themselves a lower salary. This isn't unique to Dentistry.
And you seem to throw in a lot of anecdotal salaries across different professions. I find it hard to believe that ALL these professionals voluntarily chose to disclose their salaries to you. The family in Podiatry you have who is supposedly doing well financially was a "HE" in your most recent post but a "SHE" last few times you mentioned them.

Sdn is a wonderful resource but i'd urge anyone reading to read some of the salary info with a grain of salt. The source of info matters.

 

[Cranjis McBasketball]

And they both happen to make 10k/month before tax?
Well i think you're BS-ing. Looking at your post history, a lot of these anecdotes just seems made up to me. I'll leave it at that. It's upto the other posters to figure out what's right.

Why is that so crazy that they both make 10k a month pre tax..? Everyone here knows that anecdotes need to be taken with a grain of salt.. it doesnt really need to be announced

 

[Cranjis McBasketball]

I'll summarize:
A family member of his makes 10k/month pretax as a podiatrist (it's a HE)
Supposedly another family member makes the same (this one's a SHE)
and then he has an uncle who's a DPM, who hires pods for ~10k/month

He thinks Pods make ~10k/month and has been coming up with made up anecdotes. Just my opinion.

There are plenty that make around 10k a month before taxes

 

[Weirdy]

I'll summarize:
A family member of his makes 10k/month pretax as a podiatrist (it's a HE)
Supposedly another family member makes the same (this one's a SHE)
and then he has an uncle who's a DPM, who hires pods for ~10k/month

He thinks Pods make ~10k/month and has been coming up with made up anecdotes. Just my opinion.

So 120k a year before taxes....Doesn't seem too out of the ordinary?

 

[GypsyHummus]

You gotta take what you can get. Some people hit a wall with the MCAT and cant score higher. I know I did.

I have a feeling most people would rather be a DPM than not a doctor at all. Or worse. Go to the Caribbean and end up not getting a residency with 200K of non dischargable debt.

Say what you want about podiatry, but at least they offer a better than 25% chance of practicing some sort of medicine.

I hope you do continue to love it, but you've fallen into the "they love me and .. I guess now I love them too" trap. No one likes being rejected and in your moment of need the podiatry schools have done what they do - they accept everyone. They make you feel flattered with their near instantaneous offers of interview and acceptance. They offer you some money. You've been sitting by the phone/email waiting for those 20 DO schools who probably made you pay secondaries and left you feeling strung out. You're making a decision that will last the rest of your life and cost $300K because you didn't want to take 1 additional year to improve your application and study for the MCAT.

Don't bother writing a snarky reply about the profession being awesome. I've seen the best (its great) and the worst (there's reasons we don't get respect) of it. I offer this to you as a devil's advocate. Everyone wants to be accepted. It influences us. I had classmates who were going to change their residency ranking because a program they didn't really want said they'd rank them first.

 

[de Ribas]

You gotta take what you can get. Some people hit a wall with the MCAT and cant score higher. I know I did.

I have a feeling most people would rather be a DPM than not a doctor at all. Or worse. Go to the Caribbean and end up not getting a residency with 200K of non dischargable debt.

Say what you want about podiatry, but at least they offer a better than 25% chance of practicing some sort of medicine.

How's your post-bacc going?