National Guard for a pinko like me.

[pageantry]

So I'm looking for the real talk this forum is known for. I have a lot of respect for everyone's service and experience and hope you'll offer respect for mine, such as it is.

I'm an MS1 seriously considering following the advice in this WCI post (http://whitecoatinvestor.com/army-national-guard-physicians/) and signing up for the ANG, no MDSSP and no STRAP.

My primary reason is a desire to serve. My whole family lineage is military. And I've wanted to serve my whole life, but various circumstances have intervened.

However, as the years have gone on, it's turned out that I've become very socially liberal and given to acts of civil protest (most recently at Standing Rock over my Thanksgiving break from school).

I've come to worry that my acts of protest (heartfelt though they are) lack a certain degree of... I almost want to say credibility? I have such a privileged life and I don't especially want to serve my government, particularly not the one coming in, but I do want to serve the troops. It's not their fault that they have to stand in the cold staring at protesters like me.

Then, too, I'd also really like the chance to learn how to function in deployed situations, in a gas mask, in search and rescue, etc. I'm envious of people who get to learn these things.

That said, I'm a mid-30s single woman. I would like loan repayment so I can veer toward primary care more cheerfully. And I would like to retain the freedom to live where I want, find a civilian residency, and practice more or less how I want, with minimal commitment after residency. The constraints of part time military medicine sound like a fair price to pay for all of the above.

I do have a call in to my local AMEDD people.

My question to you is, is what I want to do in terms of service and repayment (on my side and theirs) reasonable? Can I really have repaid my obligation within a year or two of completing residency (my mid-40s)? If all I do is learn how to salute and sit at a desk waiting for instructions, this probably isn't worth it to me. If I learn real world skills and deploy with the Guard, then it's worth it. Given my age, gender, and political leanings, are my hopes unrealistic?

Thanks for your time.

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[Gastrapathy]

What "real world skills" are you looking for? The NG isn't teaching you a trade. They exist to kill people and destroy property when the president says so. Even when the next president says so. You won't pull the trigger but you join an organization with that purpose.

I think you're likely to be miserable.

 

[pageantry]

More like how to use a gas mask, jump out of a plane, medicine in the field, and how to properly use a gun. Things like that.

I guess it's my belief that we're all (in the USA) responsible for the lives lost already. At least in military medicine my (possibly wrong) assumption is that I can help keep people alive.

I'm pretty happy now tho. I don't want to be miserable. Thanks for your thoughts.


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[Perrotfish]

More like how to use a gas mask, jump out of a plane, medicine in the field, and how to properly use a gun. Things like that.

I would also like to learn all of these things. I'm 5 years in, they haven't taught me any of them. I have learned how to work in a clinic without a functioning EMR, though.

 

[pageantry]

^okay this is very helpful. Thank you.


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[Slevin]

I would also like to learn all of these things. I'm 5 years in, they haven't taught me any of them. I have learned how to work in a clinic without a functioning EMR, though.

Should have at least used a gas mask at BOLC

 

[Cooperd0g]

Should have at least used a gas mask at BOLC

He is Navy, no BOLC. ODS is quite relaxed as it is described to me.

 

[Perrotfish]

He is Navy, no BOLC. ODS is quite relaxed as it is described to me.

5 weeks of marching in formation around Rhode Island. With every weekend off.

 

[deleted480308]

You are not deployable in the arng until you have finished residency and so you will basically do nothing but physicals for soldiers on weekend drill. If you really want to "save lives" you have to stay in after residency so that you can be deployed/activated. And they don't really rush to letting docs jump out of planes. That's the exception, not the rule.

ARNG medical students are useless to everyone. The only reason they really want us is to lock us in for our post residency time.

On a personal level, if you are given to civil disobedience style protesting, the ARNG isn't your thing

 

[pgg]

More like how to use a gas mask, jump out of a plane, medicine in the field, and how to properly use a gun. Things like that.

This is a new one for the forum. Usually it's a college-age guy who has these romantic unrealistic ideas about being in the military.


I'm not sure why you feel the need to learn how to use a gas mask (did you get teargassed at the protest? ) but they're not complicated. Buy one on the internet, read the instructions.

If you want to jump out of planes, you can (and should!) take some skydiving lessons.

As for learning field medicine, I would suggest it's more important to learn ordinary medicine first. Once you have, you'll realize that "field medicine" is 98% first-responder activities at the level of an EMT or paramedic. Do an elective in wilderness medicine or something along those lines as a MS4 if you're really interested in physician-level "field" medicine ...

If you want to learn how to use a gun, you can (and should!) go to any local gun shop / range and sign up for a class. They'd love to have you. (And while you're at it, maybe quit voting for the party that's hell bent on eliminating your right to own and carry one. )

My primary reason is a desire to serve. My whole family lineage is military. And I've wanted to serve my whole life, but various circumstances have intervened.

This is the best reason to join.

However, as the years have gone on, it's turned out that I've become very socially liberal and given to acts of civil protest (most recently at Standing Rock over my Thanksgiving break from school).

That's OK. Be aware that there are legal limits to the kind of protesting you can do while on active duty. You can google the details, but you give up certain rights while serving.

No one's going to care if you're a socially-acceptable social-liberal.

My question to you is, is what I want to do in terms of service and repayment (on my side and theirs) reasonable? Can I really have repaid my obligation within a year or two of completing residency (my mid-40s)? If all I do is learn how to salute and sit at a desk waiting for instructions, this probably isn't worth it to me. If I learn real world skills and deploy with the Guard, then it's worth it. Given my age, gender, and political leanings, are my hopes unrealistic?

I'm not familiar with the ANG deal. Most milmed service obligations are longer than a year or two, though.

Your age, gender, and political leanings aren't a problem. You aren't going to learn any worthwhile skills with the Guard. You might deploy - I think the NG deploying is unlikely given the world today, and it was unprecedented before OIF, but it's sure not unprecedented now.

 

[deleted480308]

http://federalnewsradio.com/army/2016/02/army-wants-guard-reserve-deployments-2017/

 

[pageantry]

Thanks, @pgg, yeah Santa already brought me my SGE 400/3 gasmask with NATO standard filter and yeah it's for protest. Particularly for street Medic-ing, going back into the gas to help wounded protesters. I think the veterans who went to SR (and also the Guardspeople who crossed over to camp side after their jobs were over) knew how unconstitutional the scene became. I want to be able to help good citizens in the face of militarized police. I just wish I could do a controlled test of the mask, really.

And I know I can cobble together most of these things on my own but I draw the line at spending hard earned cash to throw myself out of a plane just to pad my OKCupid profile pics! Guns are fun (I said I was a pinko not a Democrat ) but it's kind of the same feeling. One wants to learn these things in service of more than oneself.

I'd read in a comment on that WCI post that someone claimed they got to do all those things by going Guard, but of course I don't trust our government, bureaucrats, the confines of misogyny, or the Internet, so I wanted to double check. (^gonna have a great time in the Military.)

Anyway, thanks for your perspective!


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[pgg]

So what do you mean by pinko then? Communist? A socially-acceptable just-contrary-enough-to-be-cool student-loan-forgiving Bernie-Sanders-bumper-sticker socialist?

Why do you want to learn how to jump out of airplanes, if never to spend your hard earned cash to do it for fun? It's not like the protesters fighting the good fight against The Man ever do it paratrooper-style.

 

[Cooperd0g]

Why do you want to learn how to jump out of airplanes, if never to spend your hard earned cash to do it for fun? It's not like the protesters fighting the good fight against The Man ever do it paratrooper-style.

Yeah, but you have to admit that it would be impressive if they did.

 

[pgg]

Yeah, but you have to admit that it would be impressive if they did.

I was just thinking how awesome that would be.

Bunch of hippie paratroopers dropping in from above, occupying Wall Street.

 

[d2305]

There's not much difference between communists and socialists/democrats. http://www.cpusa.org/

 

[DokterMom]

Sounds like your social and political leanings might be better served by Doctors Without Borders, the Peace Corps or Red Cross. I'd have some very serious reservations about signing a contract to do whatever the incoming administration orders you to do...

Aren't there some rural medicine stipends or loan repayment programs that would satisfy your altruistic and financial motivations without putting you in an environment that stresses your social conscience?

 

[notdeadyet]

OP- How much you will enjoy being a leftist in the Guard is going to be highly dependent on your state.

The military as a whole is very conservative. Much (but not all) of your daily military life will center around the Medical Corps, which is quite a bit more liberal than the Army as a whole, but still swings way more conservative than you'll find at (say) Standing Rock. It will also likely swing more to the right than the community you live in. This will be particularly true if you live on most of the coasts or most college towns.

You can tolerate the Army's political bent and the Army will tolerate yours, assuming you keep a few things in mind.

• Spouting a bunch of leftist stuff is not going to be well received in military circles. You can sound off, and folks will largely find it funny. If you enter into any political diatribe, it will typically be cut down pretty short. It's not typically an environment that supports a lot of political theory discussions at work.
• The inverse of this is not true. When Obama is president, I heard a lot of anti-Obama stuff ad naseum. When Bush was president, most anti-Bush statements were cut off with, with "hey, he's our Commander in Chief." Get used to this.
• This carries over to religion as well. You can be a gay pagan in the Army legally, but speaking openly about this life in the office will likely not be well-received. That said, a lot of discussion about evangelical Christian attitudes will be fairly frank and open. Get used to it.
• In the Guard, unlike Active Army, you are not subject to UCMJ 24/7. This means that you have more freedoms for 28 days of the month than your active counterparts. But you also need a security clearance to do your job. And you will potentially lose that if you are viewed as a security risk. You will very likely be viewed that way if you end up with arrests for your political activities. Given the upcoming political tempo many of us are expecting, you may not even need arrests to be viewed that way.
• In the Guard, you will most likely eventually be based with a line unit. Much of the leadership and most of the enlisted you support will be right wing, some comically so. If you establish yourself as the "pinko," you may mean it with an emoji wink, but it will also instill mistrust in your patients. There will already be an inherent mistrust in you since you have the ability to severely hamper their lives. Adding to it will reduce your ability to really serve.

I'm a Leftist, for the most part. I did my street protest thing extensively in my younger days. I also come from military lineage and wanted to serve my country via the military. But I take that concept of service very seriously. If you take the idea of military service seriously too, you'll realize that you can best serve if you are viewed as loyal, knowledgeable, and someone who can be trusted. In order to do that, I largely leave my politics at the door during drill weekends and I limit my political expression in the rest of my life so that it doesn't jeopardize my ability to provide service in the Army. When I get out, will I get back into street protest? Who knows? For now, it's either/or and I choose military service for now.

My advice to you is to figure out if what you're really interested in is service. This implies sacrifice. That sacrifice involves tempering your politics to the point that it doesn't interfere with your ability to provide this service. Since you'll be a physician and require people to trust you, that largely means not flying the "look at me" or "I'm so very different from y'all" flag while at work. If your political expression is too precious to you to do so while you're serving your Guard duty, don't join. Because you won't be effectively serving anybody, you'll likely be miserable, and you'll potentially make the people around you miserable as well.

 

[pageantry]

Idk my entire polysci background comes from reading old Bloom County strips. I just think the word "pinko" is funny. I thought it meant "socialist but not quite communist."

To be honest I'm more of an green-anarcho-syndicalist, but who's splitting hairs now? (Hint: me.)

And @DoktorMom I'll definitely do MSF later! This is all obviously my wistful version of hippie recon. I just really want to be able to say that if I object to what our military/government does, it's from a place of patriotism, respect, and care for those who also care about our country, albeit from different value systems. That's the best thing about the America that I love.

 

[pgg]

There's not much difference between communists and socialists/democrats. http://www.cpusa.org/

Yes, there is.

Socialists are condescending and naive spenders of other peoples' money for the nannystate good of everyone. It works fine until the money runs out.

Communists fill mass graves. It never works, and it only ends when they run out of people to bury.

 

[notdeadyet]

You are not deployable in the arng until you have finished residency and so you will basically do nothing but physicals for soldiers on weekend drill.

You're right.

And just to add to this, from my experience, most units will not let you even do actual physicals until you're licensed, so most folks are doing mostly administrative detail for their med school and much of intern year.

 

[deleted480308]

You're right.

And just to add to this, from my experience, most units will not let you even do actual physicals until you're licensed, so most folks are doing mostly administrative detail for their med school and much of intern year.

that's an accurate clarification. in my state we just do the blood pressure/eye exam/pregnancy test, not even the actual medical questions part of a PHA

 

[pageantry]

Okay so this is interesting. I guess my question now is, if you don't do much but march in circles, desk jockey, and sock away time against your medical student loans (with, in the case of the Guard, ~2 years of part time military doctoring after residency), what does it even mean when a person says "I want to serve"?

No snark, I'm just confused. What's getting served with those six years before you can do things?

I think I'd still be willing to do that just to gain the credibility of being willing to put up with military BS like everyone else (and the loans, let's not forget.) I just want to make sure I'm not missing something.

Also is it fair to say that with the Guard you have a lot more time on your own to decompress from the military BS and get fully into medical BS? That seems okay for me.

P.S. @notdeadyet, your post came while I was writing mine and I appreciate it very much. Thanks for the real talk, and for the benefit of the doubt. I think we're on the same page and I think I can do that. Hell, there's tons about *medicine* I'm skeptical about. But it's not all about me, is it?

 

[deleted480308]

Okay so this is interesting. I guess my question now is, if you don't do much but march in circles, desk jockey, and sock away time against your medical student loans (with, in the case of the Guard, ~2 years of part time military doctoring after residency), what does it even mean when a person says "I want to serve"?

No snark, I'm just confused. What's getting served with those six years before you can do things?

I think I'd still be willing to do that just to gain the credibility of being willing to put up with military BS like everyone else (and the loans, let's not forget.) I just want to make sure I'm not missing something.

Also is it fair to say that with the Guard you have a lot more time on your own to decompress from the military BS and get fully into medical BS? That seems okay for me.


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nothing is being served during med school, the only service med students provide is the binding commitment to be in afterwards

 

[pageantry]

nothing is being served during med school, the only service med students provide is the binding commitment to be in afterwards

I can live with that as long as I know beforehand. Thanks for this.


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[Gastrapathy]

I just don't understand how someone who calls herself an anarchist can honestly take a commissioning oath. You are going to make someone else's life suck.

 

[pageantry]

I just don't understand how someone who calls herself an anarchist can honestly take a commissioning oath. You are going to make someone else's life suck.

Well I don't know how someone who calls themselves a American patriot can write off another person's capacity to serve other Americans on the basis of a difference in opinion.


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[Gastrapathy]

You called yourself an anarchist, that is not an opinion. Maybe you meant something different than Webster. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anarchist

You're part of the establishment doctor. You practice a profession that requires licensure from state and federal agencies. So, mostly you sound naive. But I'll take you st your word.

Belief in anarchy means that you believe life would be better without government and being an anarchist means that you seek to create a society without government.. Yet you will take an oath to uphold our constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic. This ain't about my politics.

People like you in the military float along until it becomes inconvenient and then suddenly their politics become an issue. Then someone else ends up in your place doing your job.

Be sure you tell the NCIS agent that you don't believe in democracy when you have your clearance interview.

 

[pageantry]

You called yourself an anarchist, that is not an opinion. Maybe you meant something different than Webster. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anarchist

In fact, I do mean something more complex than that. Ideals are complex. But until a reasonable path to a better world can be found, I definitely would like to have it via democracy.

I can totally understand your reaction tho. It's a shocking word. I apologize for being inadvertently confrontational in my blitheness. @notdeadyet's point re: winkie pinkos stands.




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[DeadCactus]

You sound like another social tourist looking for street cred and facebook selfies and with no real interest in serving anyone. Maybe that's not you, but it's how your posts come across.

 

[Gastrapathy]

Who am I kidding. She'll probably end up in charge. Your respect for anarcho-syndicalism training can follow your don't rape sailors training and don't **** kidnapped children training.

Actually that would be fun watching surgeons heads explode.

 

[pageantry]

You make a good point. A culture of mindless bigotry *would* probably get annoying.

I'll try to chalk it up to the internet and not the military tho.

Thanks to those who were helpful; adios.


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[Gastrapathy]

Ok. Deploy once. In your life. And I'll owe you an apology.

They were your own labels.

 

[d2305]

There used to be a questions about communism in the commissioning paperwork, but I think they're gone.

 

[j4pac]

However, as the years have gone on, it's turned out that I've become very socially liberal and given to acts of civil protest (most recently at Standing Rock over my Thanksgiving break from school).

I've come to worry that my acts of protest (heartfelt though they are) lack a certain degree of... I almost want to say credibility? I have such a privileged life and I don't especially want to serve my government, particularly not the one coming in, but I do want to serve the troops. It's not their fault that they have to stand in the cold staring at protesters like me.

Then, too, I'd also really like the chance to learn how to function in deployed situations, in a gas mask, in search and rescue, etc. I'm envious of people who get to learn these things.

Is there a liberal uprising coming? Please...tell me there's a liberal uprising coming?!? Conservatives will be thrilled.

 

[Shikima]

You would fit in well with the Indian health service if you want to help out to assuage feelings of guilt. To a lesser degree at the VA.

 

[Ziehl-Neelsen]

Is there a liberal uprising coming? Please...tell me there's a liberal uprising coming?!? Conservatives will be thrilled.

Fat, bearded militia-men who can't lug their tricked out AR-15 more than 100 yards without needing sub-lingual nitroglycerin vs. "feel the Bern" Millenials and Draft-Dodging Boomers trying to relive the Chicago 7 who, between them, couldn't field-strip an M9.

I think I'll sit this one out.

 

[j4pac]

Fat, bearded militia-men who can't lug their tricked out AR-15 more than 100 yards without needing sub-lingual nitroglycerin vs. "feel the Bern" Millenials and Draft-Dodging Boomers trying to relive the Chicago 7 who, between them, couldn't field-strip an M9.

I think I'll sit this one out.

LOL. At the very least...it might me comical. At best...it might thin out the herd of idiots on both sides.

 

[Perrotfish]

You called yourself an anarchist, that is not an opinion. Maybe you meant something different than Webster. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anarchist.

The word has a more complex meaning in left wing academic circles that you appreciate. You might be more comfortable with the word 'libertarian', though that does carry a different connotation, and there are some clear differences in the philosophy of property rights. Also, like hard core libertarianism, anarchism it is a wildly impractical philosophy and almost never followed to its logical conclusions by its supposed proponents. Ursula LeGuin's "The Dispossessed" is a good starting point (and also just a great novel) if you're interested in what she means.

 

[Gastrapathy]

I know I know. They use the word because it attracts people who want to feel like they are shocking and extreme. It doesn't change the definition. But it's false nuance to try to distinguish them from other syndicalists/communists and it makes no sense to put those two words together. Jumbo shrimp. It's also an utterly impossible philosophy that ignores the basics of human nature and would lead inevitably to a totalitarian state. You can be very liberal and function just fine in the military. Expressing a treasonous belief (even if you don't really believe it) not so much.

 

[pgg]

Fat, bearded militia-men who can't lug their tricked out AR-15 more than 100 yards without needing sub-lingual nitroglycerin vs. "feel the Bern" Millenials and Draft-Dodging Boomers trying to relive the Chicago 7 who, between them, couldn't field-strip an M9.

I think I'll sit this one out.

Had to put my drink down else I'd have snarfed it.

 

[d2305]

Che Guevara was a physician (when he wasn't in his terrorist mode).

 

[Shikima]

Che Guevara was a physician (when he wasn't in his terrorist mode).

 

[pgg]

Che Guevara was a physician (when he wasn't in his terrorist mode).

If you have some kind of point to make, make it.

 

[d2305]

Just a dedicated communist who didn't mind killing people. He had an interesting biography. Obama had Che image in the background during his speech in Cuba which I'm sure was no fluke.

 

[Shikima]

Yet he's hailed as a "freedom fighter".

 

[pgg]

Just a dedicated communist who didn't mind killing people. He had an interesting biography. Obama had Che image in the background during his speech in Cuba which I'm sure was no fluke.

Ah

I couldn't tell if you were offering up some kind of defense of communism and Che, appears not.