Need some input about a medical license suspension case

[jonathanlikes]

Here's the background:

I am a resident. I was at a friends house for a huge party. I used a lot of marijuana with other people. I was NOT on duty in any way, shape, or form. I wasn't even on duty the next day, or the next (this happened during my vacation time). I was in a state where recreational marijuana is legal. My residency program is NOT in a state where rec marijuana is legal.

I returned to work. Was talking to one of my co-residents. Told him about catching up with friends and the party. He tells me to be very careful. He tells me a story about a doctor. He scares the hell out of me. Now I am paranoid, and need some input.

There is a nephrologist (I will not post the physician's name here, even though it is public information) who had her medical license suspended by the state board of Maryland in 2017. You can read the full complaint from the state board website here:

https://www.mbp.state.md.us/BPQAPP/orders/d7285012.267.pdf

The short summary is this: A doctor was using drugs at her boyfriends house. Someone who was also present notified the medical board. Medical board forces her to come in for an interview, they want access to her personal, private health records, and they told her that she needed to come in and get a drug test. She refused and her license was suspended.

Now I am scared that somebody from the party could just call the medical board and it would kick off this whole investigation. Is that all it really takes? Some random person tells the medical board something and you are suddenly being drug tested? Called in and interrogated? Your personal info is being subpoenaed? It seems like even an investigation from the medical board could torch a resident's reputation and career.

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[deleted859689]

Here's the background:

I am a resident. I was at a friends house for a huge party. I used a lot of marijuana with other people. I was NOT on duty in any way, shape, or form. I wasn't even on duty the next day, or the next (this happened during my vacation time). I was in a state where recreational marijuana is legal. My residency program is NOT in a state where rec marijuana is legal.

I returned to work. Was talking to one of my co-residents. Told him about catching up with friends and the party. He tells me to be very careful. He tells me a story about a doctor. He scares the hell out of me. Now I am paranoid, and need some input.

There is a nephrologist (I will not post the physician's name here, even though it is public information) who had her medical license suspended by the state board of Maryland in 2017. You can read the full complaint from the state board website here:

https://www.mbp.state.md.us/BPQAPP/orders/d7285012.267.pdf

The short summary is this: A doctor was using drugs at her boyfriends house. Someone who was also present notified the medical board. Medical board forces her to come in for an interview, they want access to her personal, private health records, and they told her that she needed to come in and get a drug test. She refused and her license was suspended.

Now I am scared that somebody from the party could just call the medical board and it would kick off this whole investigation. Is that all it really takes? Some random person tells the medical board something and you are suddenly being drug tested? Called in and interrogated? Your personal info is being subpoenaed? It seems like even an investigation from the medical board could torch a resident's reputation and career.

Be careful who you toke with. But seriously someone calling the medical board about you? Don’t be a dick I guess. I have a friend neurosurg resident pgy-2. Tokes ALL the time after work ofc. He gets by just fine and has smoked with some nurses. Risky bizz. But also marijuana is illegal on the federal level. Not worth the risk in my opinion. I’m just a pre-med, but hopefully assuages some of your concerns.

edit: and also reading the report, she pissed off the board and wasn’t very forthcoming for some reason. It looks like she was hiding more than just smoking marijuana at home.

 

[Smurfette]

Here's the background:

I am a resident. I was at a friends house for a huge party. I used a lot of marijuana with other people. I was NOT on duty in any way, shape, or form. I wasn't even on duty the next day, or the next (this happened during my vacation time). I was in a state where recreational marijuana is legal. My residency program is NOT in a state where rec marijuana is legal.

I returned to work. Was talking to one of my co-residents. Told him about catching up with friends and the party. He tells me to be very careful. He tells me a story about a doctor. He scares the hell out of me. Now I am paranoid, and need some input.

There is a nephrologist (I will not post the physician's name here, even though it is public information) who had her medical license suspended by the state board of Maryland in 2017. You can read the full complaint from the state board website here:

https://www.mbp.state.md.us/BPQAPP/orders/d7285012.267.pdf

The short summary is this: A doctor was using drugs at her boyfriends house. Someone who was also present notified the medical board. Medical board forces her to come in for an interview, they want access to her personal, private health records, and they told her that she needed to come in and get a drug test. She refused and her license was suspended.

Now I am scared that somebody from the party could just call the medical board and it would kick off this whole investigation. Is that all it really takes? Some random person tells the medical board something and you are suddenly being drug tested? Called in and interrogated? Your personal info is being subpoenaed? It seems like even an investigation from the medical board could torch a resident's reputation and career.

If someone reports you to the medical board, the board is going to investigate the complaint. Whether or not you used MJ in a state where it's legal or not is irrelevant, as is whether it was just the one time or whether you use regularly. They can request urine or hair testing, medical records, whatever they feel is relevant to investigate the complaint. Most of us will tell you it is not worth the risk to your career even if the chance of getting caught is extremely low. It will torch your career as an attending as well. At this point, don't do it again, don't talk about it, and pray your program/HR doesn't hear about it from your co-resident or anyone who may have overheard your conversation..

 

[Doctor Bob]

Now I am paranoid, and need some input.

Maybe it's still in your system.

 

[rokshana]

Yes that IS all it takes.
Marijuana is still illegal at a federal level, so it’s still illegal for you ... if you ever want a DEA ...and it’s illegal in the state you are in residency...it doesn’t matter that it’s legal in the state you did it in and you were on vacation...

You are a resident... your program may or may not give you the chance to go to rehab... they may just fire you on the spot if your drug test is positive...your career would be over...is using marijuana at some party really worth losing your medical career?

There is a thread on PHP and how they basically control you , fair or not, and it could cost you tens of thousands of dollars to prove you are not an addict.

Like Nancy Reagan said... just say no.

 

[BoardingDoc]

Here's the background:

I am a resident. I was at a friends house for a huge party. I used a lot of marijuana with other people. I was NOT on duty in any way, shape, or form. I wasn't even on duty the next day, or the next (this happened during my vacation time). I was in a state where recreational marijuana is legal. My residency program is NOT in a state where rec marijuana is legal.

I returned to work. Was talking to one of my co-residents. Told him about catching up with friends and the party. He tells me to be very careful. He tells me a story about a doctor. He scares the hell out of me. Now I am paranoid, and need some input.

There is a nephrologist (I will not post the physician's name here, even though it is public information) who had her medical license suspended by the state board of Maryland in 2017. You can read the full complaint from the state board website here:

https://www.mbp.state.md.us/BPQAPP/orders/d7285012.267.pdf

The short summary is this: A doctor was using drugs at her boyfriends house. Someone who was also present notified the medical board. Medical board forces her to come in for an interview, they want access to her personal, private health records, and they told her that she needed to come in and get a drug test. She refused and her license was suspended.

Now I am scared that somebody from the party could just call the medical board and it would kick off this whole investigation. Is that all it really takes? Some random person tells the medical board something and you are suddenly being drug tested? Called in and interrogated? Your personal info is being subpoenaed? It seems like even an investigation from the medical board could torch a resident's reputation and career.

I read that complaint. This wasn't that the person was reported and then got screwed.

It was that this person got reported, said some sketchy stuff during get board meeting, they asked for her medical records as a result, she said no, one month later they told her she needed to be drug tested (so if she isn't still smoking/using anything since the original board meeting, it would be out of her system by then), she says she is not coming to the drug testing ... Then she gets suspended.

I'm not advocating that you smoke pot. That said, not behaving like a trainwreck appears to go a long way in the event that anything happens.

 

[deleted480308]

It’s a stupid decision to do illegal drugs as a doctor. Don’t do that again

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Your program can likely test you at any time, for no reason whatsoever. If your test is positive, they will either fire you or make you take an LOA until it's clear you're not using, and they will be required to report you to the board.

 

[deleted50541]

It’s a stupid decision to do illegal drugs as a doctor. Don’t do that again

Agreed. While it wasn't required for my residency, urine drug screens were required for my fellowship and current place of employment. Invariably, you'll encounter the same thing when you're seeking a job.

After working so hard for so many years, don't risk it and stay away from smoking up.

 

[jonathanlikes]

I read that complaint. This wasn't that the person was reported and then got screwed.

It was that this person got reported, said some sketchy stuff during get board meeting, they asked for her medical records as a result, she said no, one month later they told her she needed to be drug tested (so if she isn't still smoking/using anything since the original board meeting, it would be out of her system by then), she says she is not coming to the drug testing ... Then she gets suspended.

I'm not advocating that you smoke pot. That said, not behaving like a trainwreck appears to go a long way in the event that anything happens.

Yeah, reading the findings of fact on page 3 and beyond does show that picture.

It just feels so crazy and arbitrary. You hear about cases like Christopher Duntsch, who was literally murdering people on the operating table and was being reported to the medical board by his fellow PHYSICIANS, and the board takes it's sweet time to do anything. But some anonymous tip says "this guy took a bong hit once" and they go to DEFCON 1.

 

[rokshana]

Yeah, reading the findings of fact on page 3 and beyond does show that picture.

It just feels so crazy and arbitrary. You hear about cases like Christopher Duntsch, who was literally murdering people on the operating table and was being reported to the medical board by his fellow PHYSICIANS, and the board takes it's sweet time to do anything. But some anonymous tip says "this guy took a bong hit once" and they go to DEFCON 1.

You may want to check out this thread

Residents sent to Physicians Health Programs (PHP) or Sham Psych Evals to push them out of residency

If by "hard evidence" you mean evidence of the "diagnosis-rigging" and forensic fraud that is occurring in this system there is actually quite a bit and the specific misconduct the state PHPs are engaging in is becoming quite clear. The primarily problem is there is no one to report it to as...

forums.studentdoctor.net

 

[Arch Guillotti]

Yeah, reading the findings of fact on page 3 and beyond does show that picture.

It just feels so crazy and arbitrary. You hear about cases like Christopher Duntsch, who was literally murdering people on the operating table and was being reported to the medical board by his fellow PHYSICIANS, and the board takes it's sweet time to do anything. But some anonymous tip says "this guy took a bong hit once" and they go to DEFCON 1.

The system is nuts. But that is what we live with. Accept it. Just say no. Not worth it.

 

[Dave1980]

There is a nephrologist (I will not post the physician's name here, even though it is public information) who had her medical license suspended by the state board of Maryland in 2017. You can read the full complaint from the state board website here:

https://www.mbp.state.md.us/BPQAPP/orders/d7285012.267.pdf

You didn't want to post her name but then linked to the court document with her name. Are you high?

 

[Raryn]

Here's the background:

I am a resident. I was at a friends house for a huge party. I used a lot of marijuana with other people. I was NOT on duty in any way, shape, or form. I wasn't even on duty the next day, or the next (this happened during my vacation time). I was in a state where recreational marijuana is legal. My residency program is NOT in a state where rec marijuana is legal.

I returned to work. Was talking to one of my co-residents. Told him about catching up with friends and the party. He tells me to be very careful. He tells me a story about a doctor. He scares the hell out of me. Now I am paranoid, and need some input.

There is a nephrologist (I will not post the physician's name here, even though it is public information) who had her medical license suspended by the state board of Maryland in 2017. You can read the full complaint from the state board website here:

https://www.mbp.state.md.us/BPQAPP/orders/d7285012.267.pdf

The short summary is this: A doctor was using drugs at her boyfriends house. Someone who was also present notified the medical board. Medical board forces her to come in for an interview, they want access to her personal, private health records, and they told her that she needed to come in and get a drug test. She refused and her license was suspended.

Now I am scared that somebody from the party could just call the medical board and it would kick off this whole investigation. Is that all it really takes? Some random person tells the medical board something and you are suddenly being drug tested? Called in and interrogated? Your personal info is being subpoenaed? It seems like even an investigation from the medical board could torch a resident's reputation and career.

Marijuana is federally illegal. Period.

If you get caught having used it, you can be fired, your license suspended, and forced to undertake whatever penalties the board feels may be necessary. You will have little recourse. That can be instigated by an anonymous tip to your employer or the board.

Welcome to America.

Hell, in 20-something states, your employer could decide to fire you for using nicotine and you'd have no recourse, though the board won't remove your license in that case.

At least until this is addressed on a federal level, the best thing is to not use any THC containing substance.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Marijuana is federally illegal. Period.

If you get caught having used it, you can be fired, your license suspended, and forced to undertake whatever penalties the board feels may be necessary. You will have little recourse. That can be instigated by an anonymous tip to your employer or the board.

Welcome to America.

Hell, in 20-something states, your employer could decide to fire you for using nicotine and you'd have no recourse, though the board won't remove your license in that case.

At least until this is addressed on a federal level, the best thing is to not use any THC containing substance.

I'm amazed how often this topic comes up despite how cut and dry it actually is.

 

[jonathanlikes]

You didn't want to post her name but then linked to the court document with her name. Are you high?

I didn't post her name so it wouldn't affect her getting googled. I'm not really an expert on search engine stuff. It's not some secret anyways. I'm sure everyone of her colleagues, friends, family knows all the sordid details. It's public info.

 

[jonathanlikes]

I'm amazed how often this topic comes up despite how cut and dry it actually is.

It might be cut and dry, but the message is really not getting through. I learned my lesson but I know several residents/med students who smoke pot at least once in a while. Most of them are in states where it is fully legal, though.

It's why my co-resident's story freaked me out so much, like those stories of kids getting arrested for downloading a pirated movie.

 

[rokshana]

It might be cut and dry, but the message is really not getting through. I learned my lesson but I know several residents/med students who smoke pot at least once in a while. Most of them are in states where it is fully legal, though.

It's why my co-resident's story freaked me out so much, like those stories of kids getting arrested for downloading a pirated movie.

You’re right...the message isn’t getting through...whether or not states say it’s legal is irrelevant...the federal government says it’s illegal so as a resident or an attending ...YOU CANNOT USE WEED...period.
If you do, then you have to be willing to deal with the consequences...worst case scenario, you get FIRED from your residency and are label an addict...and your medical career is nipped in the bud.
And any one...ANYONE can report you to the medical board and the board will investigate...and you do not want to come under the scrutiny of a medical board...ever...because now the microscope is on you and things that others may get away with will be a do g on you.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

It just feels so crazy and arbitrary. You hear about cases like Christopher Duntsch, who was literally murdering people on the operating table and was being reported to the medical board by his fellow PHYSICIANS, and the board takes it's sweet time to do anything. But some anonymous tip says "this guy took a bong hit once" and they go to DEFCON 1.

Each board works differently, so identical behavior in different states can yield different results.

From a BoM standpoint, reports of drug use are much easier to address than concerns of poor care. Drug use can be tested for. Someone reports me to the board for drug use, and they will want a urine test to check. Report someone for "poor care" and there isn't a test for that -- much more complicated to sort out.

 

[Raryn]

It might be cut and dry, but the message is really not getting through. I learned my lesson but I know several residents/med students who smoke pot at least once in a while. Most of them are in states where it is fully legal, though.

It's why my co-resident's story freaked me out so much, like those stories of kids getting arrested for downloading a pirated movie.

There is no state where it's fully legal. Not one. It is illegal as a federal matter.

 

[Crayola227]

Here's the background:

I am a resident. I was at a friends house for a huge party. I used a lot of marijuana with other people. I was NOT on duty in any way, shape, or form. I wasn't even on duty the next day, or the next (this happened during my vacation time). I was in a state where recreational marijuana is legal. My residency program is NOT in a state where rec marijuana is legal.

I returned to work. Was talking to one of my co-residents. Told him about catching up with friends and the party. He tells me to be very careful. He tells me a story about a doctor. He scares the hell out of me. Now I am paranoid, and need some input.

There is a nephrologist (I will not post the physician's name here, even though it is public information) who had her medical license suspended by the state board of Maryland in 2017. You can read the full complaint from the state board website here:

https://www.mbp.state.md.us/BPQAPP/orders/d7285012.267.pdf

The short summary is this: A doctor was using drugs at her boyfriends house. Someone who was also present notified the medical board. Medical board forces her to come in for an interview, they want access to her personal, private health records, and they told her that she needed to come in and get a drug test. She refused and her license was suspended.

Now I am scared that somebody from the party could just call the medical board and it would kick off this whole investigation. Is that all it really takes? Some random person tells the medical board something and you are suddenly being drug tested? Called in and interrogated? Your personal info is being subpoenaed? It seems like even an investigation from the medical board could torch a resident's reputation and career.

Yes, that is really all it takes.

And yes, when you apply for a medical license, the board can ask to see all of your personal medical records as a condition. Usually they don't. But they can.

Once you do have a medical license, the terms of most agreements for you to have one, are such that the board can always ask to see all of your records, or to subpoena all of them - which means they can ask to see all of them WITHOUT your permission. Whether or not they will, or are entitled to do so, or if a judge will grant such a request, I imagine varies state by state. Assume the medical board can subpoena all of your healthcare records once they have licensed you, unless you are reading something in the fine print of your license or bylaws of your state, or an attorney tells you otherwise, to make you think otherwise.

You cannot afford a positive drug test at any time after college, when you formally begin your medical career. You cannot afford to break ANY laws (I've seen trouble from minor assault charges brought in the setting of a bar scuffle, etc). You cannot afford to have anything in your medical record you'd rather the board not see one day (think twice about how to treat some mental health issues or substance use disorders). You cannot afford to have a chart history of non-compliance if you can help it. One day circumstances outside your control might open you up to an investigation where all of the above can come to light and hurt you.

Don't break laws, don't do drugs, consider what your personal medical records reads like, follow your doctor's orders as best you can, and in the setting of MH/substance issues, consider getting care you can keep as discreet as possible.

And for the love of God, any issue with the medical board comes up, get a good attorney that specializes in representing physicians in board dealings.

 

[tsip]

It just feels so crazy and arbitrary. You hear about cases like Christopher Duntsch, who was literally murdering people on the operating table and was being reported to the medical board by his fellow PHYSICIANS, and the board takes it's sweet time to do anything. But some anonymous tip says "this guy took a bong hit once" and they go to DEFCON 1.

As boarding doc already pointed out, this isn't quite what happened to the physician in the report. She had to mess up at numerous points. They didn't go from 0 to 100mph. Also, note the dates: She was reported to the board on June 2, 2016 and her license was not suspended until November 2017. It took 17 months, The problem was similar for the Duntsch case. Things just moved slowly. Medical boards are remarkably consistent in that aspect. They do things at a snail's pace.

 

[PieOHmy]

Yes that is all it takes. An anonymous tip to the medical board and voila you are knees deep into an investigation. And if you dont do exactly what they say, you will feel the weight of the legal system. They are after doctors. Some states are worse than others. Maryland is a particularly bad one. I was on their site reading the discipline list and one doctor got a fine of 10,000 dollars for either not reporting his cmes or saying he did them but didnt. I even think HE got suspended.

Moral of the story:
Dont let ANYONE see you intoxicated or doing anything out of the ordinary while you are a physician.
If you do the above, do not mention to ANYONE you are a physician
In fact it is generally a bad move to tell ANYONE outside of work what you do.
Do not go out with nurses and staff and think you can act like youre in college.
Keep to yourself, do questionable things ALONE or with other people who have as much to lose..
THe state licensing boards are out to get you. That is a FACT

 

[gutonc]

Yes that is all it takes. An anonymous tip to the medical board and voila you are knees deep into an investigation. And if you dont do exactly what they say, you will feel the weight of the legal system. They are after doctors. Some states are worse than others. Maryland is a particularly bad one. I was on their site reading the discipline list and one doctor got a fine of 10,000 dollars for either not reporting his cmes or saying he did them but didnt. I even think HE got suspended.

Moral of the story:
Dont let ANYONE see you intoxicated or doing anything out of the ordinary while you are a physician.
If you do the above, do not mention to ANYONE you are a physician
In fact it is generally a bad move to tell ANYONE outside of work what you do.
Do not go out with nurses and staff and think you can act like youre in college.
Keep to yourself, do questionable things ALONE or with other people who have as much to lose..
THe state licensing boards are out to get you. That is a FACT

ROFLNOPE.

But hopefully this made you feel better.

 

[PieOHmy]

ROFLNOPE.

But hopefully this made you feel better.

True story Bro!

 

[dpmd]

Like omg, a doctor got in trouble for fraud (saying you did come that you didn't do is in fact fraud). That must mean they are totally out to get doctors.

 

[PieOHmy]

That must mean they are totally out to get doctors.