MD Neurology Residency in California with 215 step 1 score

[JujuWeasley]

Hi everyone,

I am a third year medical student in the south where I grew up. My family recently moved to California LA area and I would like to live close to my family. I did pretty terrible and got 215 for step 1 score, and I was wondering how competitive neurology programs are in LA area. Do you think I have a chance? and what programs should I look into?

Thank you for your help!

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[DannyBroflex]

From when I was trying to research this as well. Not sure how accurate but this was from their website/FREIDA.
University of Southern California/LAC+USC Medical Center Program
· min 195 step, avg 201-220

 

[NeurologyHopeful2018]

From when I was trying to research this as well. Not sure how accurate but this was from their website/FREIDA.
University of Southern California/LAC+USC Medical Center Program
· min 195 step, avg 201-220

Do NOT trust the Freida website - their step score reporting range is WILDLY inaccurate.

Neurology is also much much more competitive than statistics will lead you to believe. Many programs prefer IMGs over AMGs. Why? Those programs are either service based residencies that want residents grateful being slave labor or residencies who value research in which many IMGs have the opportunity to obtain ahead of AMGs.

For an AMG, the residency slots to applicant ratio is more like 1.2 to 1.

 

[DubbiDoctor]

Do NOT trust the Freida website - their step score reporting range is WILDLY inaccurate.

Neurology is also much much more competitive than statistics will lead you to believe. Many programs prefer IMGs over AMGs. Why? Those programs are either service based residencies that want residents grateful being slave labor or residencies who value research in which many IMGs have the opportunity to obtain ahead of AMGs.

For an AMG, the residency slots to applicant ratio is more like 1.2 to 1.

If the open slots to applicant ration is 1.2, shouldn't every applicant who meets the bare qualifications match provided he/she applies broadly enough and has no flagrant red flags (more serious than a sub-par but not egregious step 1 score).

 

[NeurologyHopeful2018]

If the open slots to applicant ration is 1.2, shouldn't every applicant who meets the bare qualifications match provided he/she applies broadly enough and has no flagrant red flags (more serious than a sub-par but not egregious step 1 score).

Yes - mathematically if you applied to every program and goes on every interview - you should match.

My point is Neuro is not this "you will match if you have a pulse" specialty. I will say it is more competitive overall than Anesthesia and IM, less competitive than DR and EM.

 

[Redpancreas]

Yes - mathematically if you applied to every program and goes on every interview - you should match.

My point is Neuro is not this "you will match if you have a pulse" specialty. I will say it is more competitive overall than Anesthesia and IM, less competitive than DR and EM.

We are all passionate about our field and naturally you took issue with the pulse = Neurology thing, but definitely don’t think it’s more competitive than academic IM, especially anything that American grads want. Easier if you mean overall of course. There are thousands more IM spots than Neuro. Neurology overall is pretty uncompetitive not only if you’re looking just to match, but also if you’re looking to match at top or upper midtier places. Also, there are people who fail Step 1/2 who have matched at places like CPMC or something in California so I don’t think it’s really an exclusive field. Also, just like IM, it’s there’s plenty of IMGs and less AMGs apply across the board (probably even proportional to there being less spots). Anything top 5ish will be hard no matter what field, but after that, I’ve seen some pretty average candidates match great places like UCSD, Michigan, etc. with average grades/scores/etc.

 

[NeurologyHopeful2018]

We are all passionate about our field and naturally you took issue with the Neurology thing, but I don’t think it’s more competitive than IM, especially anything that American grads want. Easier if you mean overall of course but Neurology overall is pretty uncompetitive overall if you’re looking just to match and there are people who fail Step who have matched at places like CPMC or something in California.

Overall - just to match - Neurology as a whole is much more competitive than IM for 3 reasons:

1) Neurology residencies are mostly academic focused, while a lot of IM residencies are community based.

2) There are much fewer positions in Neurology for AMGs to match into as a lot of Neuro programs prefer IMGs or is research-heavy that is geared towards IMGs (Iowa, UAB..etc).

3) Neurology programs are much much more risk averse than IM programs since resident class size is a lot smaller. An applicant with a red flag will have much harder time getting residency interviews in Neuro vs. IM.


In terms of upper mid-tier academic programs - IM is more competitive.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

215 can still get a USMD (and perhaps a DO) who otherwise has a strong application some interviews from CA neuro programs. In recent years, LLU, Riverside, and Davis have interviewed/accepted applicants with lower than average boards.

 

[aim-agm]

Do NOT trust the Freida website - their step score reporting range is WILDLY inaccurate.

What's a good source for accurate program step ranges?

 

[NeurologyHopeful2018]

Only reliable source is from program's own website or you email the coordinator.

 

[deleted103644]

Overall - just to match - Neurology as a whole is much more competitive than IM for 3 reasons:

1) Neurology residencies are mostly academic focused, while a lot of IM residencies are community based.

This is an inaccurate generalization. The difference is that if a hospital has any residency programs, it will probably have an IM program, and I would be surprised if there are any hospitals with a neurology residency that do not also have an IM residency.

This is not because IM is less academic than neurology, just because smaller community hospitals prioritize IM, since an IM resident can cover all neurology issues but a neurology resident can’t cover all IM issues.

2) There are much fewer positions in Neurology for AMGs to match into as a lot of Neuro programs prefer IMGs or is research-heavy that is geared towards IMGs (Iowa, UAB..etc).

There are no programs in the US that prefer IMGs that can recruit AMGs. The only potential bias here is that a program needs to place all or none of its spots in the match, and if you can’t match them all, might as well go out of the match, which will mostly be IMGs.

3) Neurology programs are much much more risk averse than IM programs since resident class size is a lot smaller. An applicant with a red flag will have much harder time getting residency interviews in Neuro vs. IM.

Red flags prevent you from getting interviews anywhere, what are you taking about? No program wants a problem resident, too much of a pain to fire and potential risks to patients and other staff.

In terms of upper mid-tier academic programs - IM is more competitive.

If you took the top 3000 spots for IM, I would be shocked if the statistics of those applicants weren’t higher than for the ~6-700 neurology applicants. And if you compared most same hospital IM and neurology programs, the neurology residents would be on average less competitive than the IM residents.

Neurology is interesting, but it is far from competitive.

 

[deleted103644]

What's a good source for accurate program step ranges?

There is none.

Only reliable source is from program's own website or you email the coordinator.

They will at best give you a cutoff, but do not expect an honest answer here (in fact, I would advise against asking).

 

[Redpancreas]

Overall - just to match - Neurology as a whole is much more competitive than IM for 3 reasons:

1) Neurology residencies are mostly academic focused, while a lot of IM residencies are community based.

2) There are much fewer positions in Neurology for AMGs to match into as a lot of Neuro programs prefer IMGs or is research-heavy that is geared towards IMGs (Iowa, UAB..etc).

3) Neurology programs are much much more risk averse than IM programs since resident class size is a lot smaller. An applicant with a red flag will have much harder time getting residency interviews in Neuro vs. IM.


In terms of upper mid-tier academic programs - IM is more competitive.

IM has as many academic programs as Neurology has. The only difference is that IM also has a lot of extra spots at community places because a hospitalist/PCP is needed everywhere. I agree that for Neuro there are probably a lot fewer residency spots to match into, but there also seems to be dramatically less applying to Neurology. Iowa and Alabama residency programs in general are not research programs geared towards IMGs, they’re great institutions that struggle with recruiting due to locations and get more applications from ambitious IMGs who see it as their path to fellowship. In terms of risk averse, I can see what you’re saying because it’s a smaller field and a slightly longer commitment. Nothing against Neurology, btw. It was tied for my second favorite rotation after IM/Surgery and I respect the people who choose to do it as they obviously must love it.

 

[NeurologyHopeful2018]

This is an inaccurate generalization. The difference is that if a hospital has any residency programs, it will probably have an IM program, and I would be surprised if there are any hospitals with a neurology residency that do not also have an IM residency.

This is not because IM is less academic than neurology, just because smaller community hospitals prioritize IM, since an IM resident can cover all neurology issues but a neurology resident can’t cover all IM issues.




There are no programs in the US that prefer IMGs that can recruit AMGs. The only potential bias here is that a program needs to place all or none of its spots in the match, and if you can’t match them all, might as well go out of the match, which will mostly be IMGs.



Red flags prevent you from getting interviews anywhere, what are you taking about? No program wants a problem resident, too much of a pain to fire and potential risks to patients and other staff.



If you took the top 3000 spots for IM, I would be shocked if the statistics of those applicants weren’t higher than for the ~6-700 neurology applicants. And if you compared most same hospital IM and neurology programs, the neurology residents would be on average less competitive than the IM residents.

Neurology is interesting, but it is far from competitive.

Bolded above is ABSOLUTELY not true. I knew at least 6 fellow AMG applicants this year that ranked highly Iowa, UAB, and U Minnesota - yet did not match at these programs. These programs took 80% IMGs with killer board scores and heavy research.

 

[Dwan]

Bolded above is ABSOLUTELY not true. I knew at least 6 fellow AMG applicants this year that ranked highly Iowa, UAB, and U Minnesota - yet did not match at these programs. These programs took 80% IMGs with killer board scores and heavy research.

Even despite all these non-competitive IM programs and the high step neurology IMGs as you say, the average matched IM applicant still has a higher step than neurology (233 vs 231). Considering IM has 400+ programs (mostly community), I'd assume at most academic places IM is probably harder.