New podiatry school approved - UT Rio Grande Valley (UTRGV)

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BLS updated their 10-year outlook to show 0% growth for podiatry. I am very certain that it showed about 4-5% growth for podiatry just a few months ago. What gives?

How will the school opening up in TX along with the 0% growth affect the ability of people to get jobs (even PP associate jobs) if they were to start school in either 2021 or 2022?
New school = more grads for the same number of jobs available. Growth would go down simply by punching in these numbers. Not sure why this is suprising news.

It wouldn't affect anyone in any year right now- until they graduate their first class and flood the residency market, followed by the actual job market 3 years after.

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For people who are currently deciding between applying this year or next year, would it make much of a difference for us 7-8 years down the line?
 
For people who are currently deciding between applying this year or next year, would it make much of a difference for us 7-8 years down the line?
Im assuming this is terrible news for people like us considering going to podiatry school. They just made it to where there is enough residency spots (doesn't mean these are all high-quality residencies) and now they're opening a new school. *Sigh* From what I've gathered in my week looking at podiatry, the profession itself looks good but the job market and reimbursement are grim. Now there's this we would have to worry about. Sounds like Ill need to suck it up and take my chances applying DO regardless of the fact that this looked like a rewarding career.
 
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1) Looking at it from a residency perspective is a bad idea. There aren't enough residencies for MD and DO students, either, but that would be a dumb reason to decide not to do MD/DO. So the prospect of a "residency shortage" for DPM means very little to me, especially when you really only have to be worried about it when you are at the bottom of your class in terms of performance.

2) The BLS data was the only thing that concerned me, specifically the 0% growth. Not so much the salary (although that is a legitimate thing to be worried about). You say that people on here have told you that podiatrists employed in associate positions only make 80-100k/year, but from my own research on this site, that is not entirely accurate. You are referring to base salaries, not total compensation. Even the most pessimistic people on here have said that the typical DPM associate salary is about $150k/year, which might take a couple of years to build up. That is still a lot better than "80k-100k/yr." I'm pretty sure the VA pays new graduates about $100-150k/year as well. From what I understand, you get a base salary and then earn more money based on a "market pay" or bonus structure. I'm not sure what the total yearly compensation would be, but I know for a fact that the VA pays more than $100k/yr for podiatrists. $100k is around the entry-level base salary for podiatrists. No clue how hard it is to get a job in the VA as a podiatrist, but VA jobs are undesirable for MDs and DOs (so they are easy to get).

3) Comparing DPM to PharmD might be misleading, which is something I am personally trying to clear up a bit because I am also in a similar position as you are with respect to deciding between DO and DPM. PharmD job market saturation is very real, and it's the one reason why I will not go to pharmacy school. However, most attendings on this site seem to agree that there ARE jobs, but they are mainly the less desirable jobs. That is different from not being able to get full-time employment at all (which is the reality of retail pharmacy).

4) Rewarding career? That's subjective. I've shadowed a DPM who just cuts toe nails all day long (old DPM who did not do a residency). It's not exactly appealing, but I'd gladly do even that if it meant the difference between practicing medicine at all or working in a different industry entirely.
 
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One man's garbage is another man's treasure....my buddy is in an employed rural job. I would sure as hell never want to live there. But it just so happens to be less than an hour from where he grew up. Town of 15 k, only pod. Going to clear 430k this year. Started at 225k three years ago, new contract was 300 base, will make 60k from call and 70k bonus.
 
I would totally work in a rural area, but that's just me.
 
If I had to choose between podiatry vs. dental or optometry or PT/OT vs nursing or PA based what each practice does id pick podiatry. I know there’s where way more to it than just nail cutting and the surgical component makes it feel like a very attractive career for me. I’d rather be a foot and ankle surgeon than anything else with the exception of MAYBE doing the DO route.


Growing up relatively poor, job security is a really big deal to me, I never thought it would be a big issue in any medical specialty, podiatry included.I feel really obnoxious saying that, but every time I come to this particular thread with the thought of doing podiatry as a career I ask myself “what are you thinking.” The market outlook of this profession feels very sketchy.
 
I share your concern with job security, but where have you seen people on this site saying there aren't enough jobs/you will have an extremely tough time getting hired somewhere after residency? I've seen basically the opposite: that there are enough jobs but not enough of the best jobs.

The only thing (from what I have seen based on research) that is really sketchy would be the disparity between MGMA and what people make in associate positions. That along with the fact that medicine is full of people who are jerks and absolutely refuse to recognize DPMs as physicians (just as they did with DOs -- the AMA used to tell MDs not to consult with DOs because "they are cultists."). If that's a big issue, then maybe try to go for MD if you have the stats (~3.7/511). I've definitely met DPMs who have an inferiority complex because they are worried about whether or not people see them as "real physicians."

If you want to do ortho, consider MD instead of DO. You would likely have to be top 10-15% of your MD class if you want to match ortho due to its competitive nature. You would likely need 250+ on your USMLE Step 2 CK exam to have any decent shot of matching. Ortho residencies favor MD over DO. If it's already that hard to get in as an MD graduate, what makes you think you can do it as a DO? If your stats aren't good enough for MD, you most likely won't get the board scores and grades to land a residency in a top-tier specialty.
 
2) The BLS data was the only thing that concerned me, specifically the 0% growth. Not so much the salary (although that is a legitimate thing to be worried about). You say that people on here have told you that podiatrists employed in associate positions only make 80-100k/year, but from my own research on this site, that is not entirely accurate. You are referring to base salaries, not total compensation. Even the most pessimistic people on here have said that the typical DPM associate salary is about $150k/year, which might take a couple of years to build up. That is still a lot better than "80k-100k/yr." I'm pretty sure the VA pays new graduates about $100-150k/year as well. From what I understand, you get a base salary and then earn more money based on a "market pay" or bonus structure. I'm not sure what the total yearly compensation would be, but I know for a fact that the VA pays more than $100k/yr for podiatrists. $100k is around the entry-level base salary for podiatrists. No clue how hard it is to get a job in the VA as a podiatrist, but VA jobs are undesirable for MDs and DOs (so they are easy to get).
I would be very thankful if you could share where you're getting this information from with regards to what the total compensation is for new grads.

3) Comparing DPM to PharmD might be misleading, which is something I am personally trying to clear up a bit because I am also in a similar position as you are with respect to deciding between DO and DPM. PharmD job market saturation is very real, and it's the one reason why I will not go to pharmacy school. However, most attendings on this site seem to agree that there ARE jobs, but they are mainly the less desirable jobs. That is different from not being able to get full-time employment at all (which is the reality of retail pharmacy).
My comparison to Pharmacy comes from the BLS report and many people on this particular thread make it sound like it's going to get that bad. However, many people have told me to ignore the BLS reports.

One man's garbage is another man's treasure....my buddy is in an employed rural job. I would sure as hell never want to live there. But it just so happens to be less than an hour from where he grew up. Town of 15 k, only pod. Going to clear 430k this year. Started at 225k three years ago, new contract was 300 base, will make 60k from call and 70k bonus.
I would go where the job security is. Everyone is making it sound like the market is saturated, and I have other people telling me that it isn't. I can't rely on school websites or The American Association of Colleges of Podiatric Medicine. I'm very confused about the job outlook from a marketing standpoint.

I share your concern with job security, but where have you seen people on this site saying there aren't enough jobs/you will have an extremely tough time getting hired somewhere after residency? I've seen basically the opposite: that there are enough jobs but not enough of the best jobs.
When you take into account the costs of a podiatric medical education and the fact that podiatrists are saying it is a saturated market and most jobs are low paying associate jobs, I'm having a very hard time being optimistic about this from a financial standpoint
 
Just to add, I really hope I am not pissing anyone off here. I just started seriously looking at this profession a week ago, I was pretty excited to see that podiatrists can work in the clinic and are practicing surgeons. I'm trying to figure out job outlooks by interacting with as many people as I can on here. Reddit podiatry community is almost non-existent.
 
If you want my opinion, I would shadow some hospitalists and peds and/or family medicine physicians if you are leaning towards DO. Most people who graduate from DO programs go into primary care. You can still become a specialist (especially if it's not a very competitive specialty) as a DO, but that is just the most likely outcome. If you are okay with that and like it, then I would recommend you do that if you have competitive stats for DO (3.3-3.4/~505 MCAT).

However, going into DO because you are dead-set on ortho is just setting yourself up for disappointment.
 
VA pay information is coming from some data that has been posted on these forums previously. A couple of years ago, podiatrists were able to secure higher compensation for themselves within the VA system. There was a chart showing VA base salaries (which scale with seniority), and that chart had people who just start working for the VA having a 90-100k base salary. The whole thing about "market pay" and "bonus" is just based on what a VA hospitalist said regarding his total compensation. It might or might not work in a similar way for podiatrists; I am not the right person to ask about that. However, the VA puts podiatrists in the "physicians, podiatrists, and dentists" category for salary, so it should work in a similar way.

MGMA data would apply to podiatrists working in hospitals, ortho, and MSG, as stated in the other thread of yours. These are the people earning over 200k/yr, typically.

Associate pay is based on anecdotes, unfortunately, but I have consistently seen 150k/yr as being the norm. What isn't the norm, apparently, is making over 200k/yr as an associate. Owning a private practice apparently can earn you a really good income.
 
As far as I am aware, "job market saturation" typically refers to the more desirable jobs rather than the less desirable associate positions. People saying that are salty about the abundance of associate positions that don't pay well and the relative lack of better-paying jobs (so they aren't even really considering the associate jobs as "real jobs"). I would love it if an attending would correct me if I am wrong, though.

BLS showing 0% could be due to COVID market data, which has even "physicians and surgeons" being down a few percentage points compared to earlier this year; currently BLS projects these jobs to have 4% growth. MD/DO jobs are definitely not in danger of saturation, however.
 
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However, going into DO because you are dead-set on ortho is just setting yourself up for disappointment.
I never wrote this, that im deadset on being an ortho surgeon, I'm not sure why you're assuming this. All I said is I was initially planning DO only. I recently found this profession and since it looked rewarding, I was considering taking this route to practice medicine instead. My situation is that I know I would be competitive for DPM, I'm not sure if I would make it into a DO program. Granted, I just started looking at this as a profession and will be shadowing shortly. This thread is making me feel very uneasy about job security AND this forum in general worries me about combating the debt since supposedly you start out at 80-100k since most of the associate jobs pay this. Ive never heard of starting associate jobs at 150k, again if you could share that id appreciate it very much.

I didn't have this debt worry when considering DO since even the lowest-paying fields like IM and FM pay significantly more than the starting pod salary.
 
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Associate pay is based on anecdotes, unfortunately, but I have consistently seen 150k/yr as being the norm.
If you could show where you see this id be very grateful. I will try to find it myself, but that's not what I've seen at all.
 
Again, 80-100k is referring to base salary. Podiatrists working for other podiatrists are compensated in a way that is unusual in medicine. Base salary =/= total compensation.

If you just need someone to deter you away from podiatry, there was a hospitalist on SDN recently talking about how he can make up to about 400k/yr working in a rural area and doing extra work. You could probably make 300k-400k/yr as a hospitalist if you're willing to 1) work in a rural town and 2) work your butt off.

If it's about total compensation, then podiatry can't shine a light to what someone with a DO degree could make.
 
Yes that seems to be the case. I'm only concerned not because I want to "make the bag" or "have the doctor's life" I just want to be able to combat the debt well and I cant imagine how easy or hard that will be.
 

Read bobtheweazel's posts. He is pretty informative.
 
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I just stumbled across this. I'm a DPM practicing in British Columbia, Canada. There is a big need for podiatrists all over this province (and in Alberta). You can do quite well financially here and live in a safe, clean, beautiful part of the world. If you're interested, feel free to contact me at dr.saschumacher at gmail.com.
 
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I just stumbled across this. I'm a DPM practicing in British Columbia, Canada. There is a big need for podiatrists all over this province (and in Alberta). You can do quite well financially here and live in a safe, clean, beautiful part of the world. If you're interested, feel free to contact me at dr.saschumacher at gmail.com.
Canada, eh?
 
I just stumbled across this. I'm a DPM practicing in British Columbia, Canada. There is a big need for podiatrists all over this province (and in Alberta). You can do quite well financially here and live in a safe, clean, beautiful part of the world. If you're interested, feel free to contact me at dr.saschumacher at gmail.com.

Thinly veiled ploy to recruit some associate suckers here?
 
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David Wallace: I was happy to send Michael on this trip. He’s been feeling pretty down since we had to transfer Holly up to New Hampshire. But this little perk really seemed to turn him around. [chuckling] And it’s pretty tough to find somebody who wants to go up to Winnipeg mid-November.

-The Office
 
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Reasons to move to Canada:
-Tim Horton's
-Maple Syrup and maple syrup products
-Hockey
-Robin Scherbatsky
-Schitt's Creek
-Tar Sands
-Crepes (does require visiting Montreal)
-Withstood American Invasion 200 years ago. Canada 1, USA 0.
-Canadians are naturally born without toenails so nothing to trim
-The speak a similar dialect of English which most Americans can understand.
-Pay for things with coins.
-Really slow service at restaurants
-Anne of Green Gables
-No podiatry school, yet.
 
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I just stumbled across this. I'm a DPM practicing in British Columbia, Canada. There is a big need for podiatrists all over this province (and in Alberta). You can do quite well financially here and live in a safe, clean, beautiful part of the world. If you're interested, feel free to contact me at dr.saschumacher at gmail.com.

Those Vancouver taxes though....
 
Sounds like BC needs to open up a new podiatry school
Developing a school has been discussed in BC and Alberta from time to time, but it's a difficult task, and never seems to get out of the discussion stage. Even starting a residency has been a struggle. We had a residency for many years at Vancouver General. (I did the program.) But that was put on hiatus when the residencies changed to 3-year programs, and the government never refunded it. So our numbers are now hurting. We really could use practitioners up here. You'd be busy almost immediately, no matter where in the province you wanted to settle. And we're in a unique situation where we bill privately (unlike most of medicine here), and you get paid the day of service. It is truly a great place to live and practice. You can do quite well here, yet no one in the US seems to know about it.

FWIW, there is a DPM school in Canada. It is French-speaking and in Trois Rivieres, Quebec. But there are no residencies there, and you have to have a residency to practice in western Canada, as you do in the US. So we have no Quebec graduates in BC.
 
they are missing out on a solid $$$ generating opportunity...

I’m still trying to figure out if relying on the US to train their podiatrists is a feature or a bug?
It could be looked at in either way. Some may say it means less competition. From the profession's perspective, though, a school, residencies, and a reliable stream of new, well-trained practitioners is a good thing.
 
Those Vancouver taxes though....
The taxes aren't particularly bad if you structure things well. And you get something for your money. Schools are good. It's clean. It's safe. And the vast majority of your medical care is covered.

What is pricey in Vancouver, though, is real estate. While real estate can be a huge opportunity here, it's also tough to get started. If you don't mind being in a more rural environment, real estate is a lot cheaper and again, tons of opportunity. There's no one in the east Kootenays (100,000+), no one in Prince George area (100,000+), no one in the Rupert, Terrace, Smithers area. You could also find great spots in the Okanagan. And there's still lots of space in metro Vancouver or Victoria.

Good opportunities in Alberta, too.
 
FWIW, there is a DPM school in Canada. It is French-speaking and in Trois Rivieres, Quebec. But there are no residencies there, and you have to have a residency to practice in western Canada, as you do in the US. So we have no Quebec graduates in BC.
Is this the one affiliated with NYCPM? Where the students go down and rotate for a little while?
 
Is this the one affiliated with NYCPM? Where the students go down and rotate for a little while?
I'm not an expert in the Quebec school, but I don't think a rotation in NY is required. Perhaps some do such rotations. I gather some were trying to go to the Quebec school, then transfer to NY to get a US degree and access to residency programs, but I don't know how popular that was / is.
 
Is this the one affiliated with NYCPM? Where the students go down and rotate for a little while?

I removed the pdf I attached for privacy reasons but yeah the students from the Canadian school can do a short-term rotation at NYCPM.
I am not sure about the benefits of the program but it seems like a cool learning opportunity for the students. Feel free to google it.

Below is a copy/paste from one of the posted articles from NYCPM:

"Eight Canadian podiatric medical students from the Université du Québec à Trois-Rivières (U.Q.T.R.) recently completed a four-month clinical rotation at NYCPM’s clinical affiliate, Foot Center of New York, and at its affiliated hospitals. The clinical rotation, which has proven to be mutually beneficial to both institutions, is part of U.Q.T.R.’s program in podiatric medicine, which was founded in late 2003 through the efforts of an NYCPM graduate, Dr. François Allart, in cooperation with the faculty and administration at NYCPM. The U.Q.T.R. program is the first D.P.M. program in Canada, as well as the first French-speaking D.P.M. program in the world"
 
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I removed the pdf I attached for privacy reasons but yeah the students from the Canadian school can do a short-term rotation at NYCPM.
I am not sure about the benefits of the program but it seems like a cool learning opportunity for the students. Feel free to google it.

Below is a copy/paste from one of the posted articles from NYCPM:

"Eight Canadian podiatric medical students from the Université du Québec à Trois-Rivières (U.Q.T.R.) recently completed a four-month clinical rotation at NYCPM’s clinical affiliate, Foot Center of New York, and at its affiliated hospitals. The clinical rotation, which has proven to be mutually beneficial to both institutions, is part of U.Q.T.R.’s program in podiatric medicine, which was founded in late 2003 through the efforts of an NYCPM graduate, Dr. François Allart, in cooperation with the faculty and administration at NYCPM. The U.Q.T.R. program is the first D.P.M. program in Canada, as well as the first French-speaking D.P.M. program in the world"

Thanks for providing that.

I'm sure that would be a good experience. How often those from the Quebec school do such a rotation, someone else may be better able to answer.

FWIW, Quebec wouldn't be a bad place to practice either, though you'd have to speak French. BC and Alberta have the best scope. in the other provinces, practitioners would be much more limited.
 
Hopefully it doesn’t open up until I’m ready to hire new associates for $80k a year. kidding
 
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Im assuming this is terrible news for people like us considering going to podiatry school. They just made it to where there is enough residency spots (doesn't mean these are all high-quality residencies) and now they're opening a new school. *Sigh* From what I've gathered in my week looking at podiatry, the profession itself looks good but the job market and reimbursement are grim. Now there's this we would have to worry about. Sounds like Ill need to suck it up and take my chances applying DO regardless of the fact that this looked like a rewarding career.
Go DO and never look back
 
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So I heard this school is going to be PUBLIC. Where all the other podiatry schools are Private. That means tuition for the new podiatry school is going to be like $9-10K max per year.

This school will become a powerhouse because the most competitive students will want to go there for the sake that the education will be very cheap compared to the other podiatry schools.

Problem is that this school will also fall short of creating new podiatry resident positions at current residency programs. Just like Harkless failed to do so with Western. He just wants control of another school but does not have full awareness of the carnage he is about to create for the profession and the current students.

AAAaaaaaaaaaand that's podiatry for you...
 
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So I heard this school is going to be PUBLIC. Where all the other podiatry schools are Private. That means tuition for the new podiatry school is going to be like $9-10K max per year.

This school will become a powerhouse because the most competitive students will want to go there for the sake that the education will be very cheap compared to the other podiatry schools.

Problem is that this school will also fall short of creating new podiatry resident positions at current residency programs. Just like Harkless failed to do so with Western. He just wants control of another school but does not have full awareness of the carnage he is about to create for the profession and the current students.

AAAaaaaaaaaaand that's podiatry for you...
$10k a year? Sounds too good to be true. other schools are $43k+. it’s crazy. I’m never paying back my loans unless ADA hits $10
 
$10k a year? Sounds too good to be true. other schools are $43k+. it’s crazy. I’m never paying back my loans unless ADA hits $10
ADA will hit somewhere between $5-10 this bull cycle. MELD is another cardano native token that does crypto back fiat lending. Look it up. I got 300K of MELD tokens. Going to be huge.
 
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ADA will hit somewhere between $5-10 this bull cycle. MELD is another cardano native token that does crypto back fiat lending. Look it up. I got 300K of MELD tokens. Going to be huge.
interesting…. I’ll take a look. I’m a big ada and Eth guy
 
ADA will hit somewhere between $5-10 this bull cycle. MELD is another cardano native token that does crypto back fiat lending. Look it up. I got 300K of MELD tokens. Going to be huge.
Damn. You got some cohones. 45k on a crypto lottery. I hope youre right!
 
This school will become a powerhouse because the most competitive students will want to go there for the sake that the education will be very cheap compared to the other podiatry schools.
Have you been to the Rio Grande Valley? It’s the literal hot, sweaty crotch of Texas. Cities in Texas are great and all, but the RGV is a god awful place to live with nothing to do but raise a family or get drunk in Mexico if you’re an underage college kid.

I’m sure I’m not the only one who had 0 interest in the Iowa school, because Iowa and middle of nowhere. Same in the RGV but worse and much hotter.

They honestly couldn’t have picked a worse place to open a school. They could’ve at least opened it in San Antonio.
 
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$10k a year? Sounds too good to be true. other schools are $43k+. it’s crazy. I’m never paying back my loans unless ADA hits $10
Ah crap I can't believe you mentioned ADA to @CutsWithFury ....
Have you been to the Rio Grande Valley? It’s the literal hot, sweaty crotch of Texas. Cities in Texas are great and all, but the RGV is a god awful place to live with nothing to do but raise a family or get drunk in Mexico if you’re an underage college kid.

I’m sure I’m not the only one who had 0 interest in the Iowa school, because Iowa and middle of nowhere. Same in the RGV but worse and much hotter.

They honestly couldn’t have picked a worse place to open a school. They could’ve at least opened it in San Antonio.
Don't disagree with anything you said about Texas. The Iowa school is not the middle of nowhere. You have no idea what the middle of nowhere means.... Try practicing there and trying to deliver good patient care when you have no vascular surgeon or infectious disease or dialysis for 3 hours in any direction
 
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