New vet schools

[battie]

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However, if there really are so many available jobs then would saturation really be a problem?

Yes, because it's a maldistribution problem. So as the jobs in the cities and suburbs become saturated, all you have left is the rural jobs that grads cant afford to take.

A&M (right?)

These 2+2 programs I have less of an issue with. They arent opening a whole new school, but they're offering in state tuition for 4 years to people actually from rural areas who can afford to go back to these rural places that they're actually from. At least for the programs I know more about (UNL and Iowa State). I would definitely be more supportive of these types of programs, or states spending the money for contract seats at existing schools.

 

[deleted676737]

@itsrocky isnt the statistic for vetmed that there are 3 job openings for every new graduate? I agree that it’s problematic that there are new schools that are opening more and more frequently. Arizona, LIU, Texas Tech, possibly a new A&M (right?), Arkansas. The idea that they can charge as much as/more than somewhere like Penn or Tufts without having a teaching hospital or any sort of track record shouldn’t be accepted. But people are desperate to get into vet school so they’ll pay it. However, if there really are so many available jobs then would saturation really be a problem?

IMO, no vet school should be charging as much as/more than what Penn or Tufts do, period.

 

[itsrocky]

[

Yes, because it's a maldistribution problem. So as the jobs in the cities and suburbs become saturated, all you have left is the rural jobs that grads cant afford to take.

Which is precisely what’s happened with pharm too

 

[Minnerbelle]

However, if there really are so many available jobs then would saturation really be a problem?

um, just wait for the next market crash. People will be real sorry. Even for the areas where there is a “vet shortage”right now, the second the economy tanks there will be negative jobs.

Between 2009 and 2014 it was really really rough. There were no jobs. So many people hating their lives because they either needed to take a banfield job or other new grad mill job because there was none available otherwise. I graduated at the tail end of that job crisis in vet med, and it sucked.

Next time, there are going to be hoards of new grads from these fishy new schools. New grads are the ones who struggle the most to begin with because if given the choice and fish is a plenty in the applicant pool, employers will want candidates with experience.

 

[ajs513]

Thanks for the responses. I was mainly posing a question to learn a bit more about the situation, and I appreciate the clarification.

 

[amwildlife]

Hi sorry to intrude here, but how do you guys think your established vet schools started? Every accredited school has to have a starting class and a graduating class to become accredited. I feel like everyone should be happy there are new schools, it means our profession is growing. One individual can not vet every animal in the world, we should be collaborating and encouraging people to become vets, whether it is through the new school or the established school.
Improvements can always be made and there is always more than one way to do thing. You all shouldn’t be so quick to hate on those who are striving for the same thing you strived for years ago, even if its with a new school.


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[DVMDream]

Hi sorry to intrude here, but how do you guys think your established vet schools started? Every accredited school has to have a starting class and a graduating class to become accredited. I feel like everyone should be happy there are new schools, it means our profession is growing. One individual can not vet every animal in the world, we should be collaborating and encouraging people to become vets, whether it is through the new school or the established school.
Improvements can always be made and there is always more than one way to do thing. You all shouldn’t be so quick to hate on those who are striving for the same thing you strived for years ago, even if its with a new school.


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Yeah, you've definitely missed the point.

 

[zoogrl29]

There are 66 dental schools in the US. We still have a long way to go before CVM’s stop being profitable (we only have 30). That being said, dental school costs a fraction of what vet school does (21,000 IS, 64,000 OOS). If we want tuition to drop we need more schools! Many of us stuck applying over and over (and over and over) have paid over 10k just in applications. Many of us are more than worthy, there just isn’t room for us. Now we have a chance! We may not have a 4.0, but we deserve a chance. I’m thankful the new schools give us one. [emoji2368]


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[Coopah]

Hi sorry to intrude here, but how do you guys think your established vet schools started? Every accredited school has to have a starting class and a graduating class to become accredited. I feel like everyone should be happy there are new schools, it means our profession is growing. One individual can not vet every animal in the world, we should be collaborating and encouraging people to become vets, whether it is through the new school or the established school.
Improvements can always be made and there is always more than one way to do thing. You all shouldn’t be so quick to hate on those who are striving for the same thing you strived for years ago, even if its with a new school.


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My school got started because of a disease killing cattle and no one could do the research to figure it out so they made the school, did the research and cured the disease. Not because there wasn't one in the state, but because there was an immediate problem we could fix. And no I don't believe that a shortage of vets in rural areas is an immediate problem they can fix.

 

[DVMDream]

I feel like everyone should be happy there are new schools, it means our profession is growing.

Our profession isn't growing, it is struggling and going to implode very soon if things don't change. Suicide rate of veterinarians is at an all time high. The cost of schooling is well beyond the means of most normal people. The debt is crippling and salaries are stagnant. General practice vets are leaving the field and begging/pleading to find other avenues to practice medicine that isn't clinical medicine because public attitude about care of pets is horrible.

In the veterinary facebook groups I am in, there are a minimum of 2-3 posts per week of people clawing to find a way either out of clinical medicine or out of vet med altogether.

I wouldn't dare encourage anyone to join this profession the way it currently is at this time. It needs a massive overhaul. It is driving people to suicide, crippling people financially and emotionally destroying those within the field. 100% would not encourage. And the fact people want to make more schools and spit out more people into this career is honestly heartbreaking for those of us in veterinary medicine that see the struggles. That is more people whose souls will be crushed and more people to potentially fall victim to our suicide epidemic.

 

[zoogrl29]

Yeah, you've definitely missed the point.

Did she though? The whole “fishy new schools” comment is offensive. They have established professors teaching there. Do they have kinks? Sure...anyone on LMU threads knows I think they need to cut the MAGA bs and Harrogate blows. Does that mean the school is “fishy”? No. The current classes deserve their DVM just as all of you did.


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[EngrSC]

There are 66 dental schools in the US. We still have a long way to go before CVM’s stop being profitable (we only have 30). That being said, dental school costs a fraction of what vet school does (21,000 IS, 64,000 OOS). If we want tuition to drop we need more schools! Many of us stuck applying over and over (and over and over) have paid over 10k just in applications. Many of us are more than worthy, there just isn’t room for us. Now we have a chance! We may not have a 4.0, but we deserve a chance. I’m thankful the new schools give us one. [emoji2368]

I don’t think this is a strong argument because everyone needs a dentist, not everyone needs a veterinarian 🤔

 

[Coopah]

Did she though? The whole “fishy new schools” comment is offensive. They have established professors teaching there. Do they have kinks? Sure...anyone on LMU threads knows I think they need to cut the MAGA bs and Harrogate blows. Does that mean the school is “fishy”? No. The current classes deserve their DVM just as all of you did.


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I think the fishy was in relation to the distributive teaching method rather than the faculty and students. Possibly the people funding this and directly benefiting from the profits. The AVMA tried to fight the distributive teaching module but lost. That doesn't mean it's a good method. There are serious concerns that the students are not getting the best education they can, and I think that's valid.

 

[DVMDream]

Did she though? The whole “fishy new schools” comment is offensive. They have established professors teaching there. Do they have kinks? Sure...anyone on LMU threads knows I think they need to cut the MAGA bs and Harrogate blows. Does that mean the school is “fishy”? No. The current classes deserve their DVM just as all of you did.


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No one is saying the current students don't deserve a DVM, where in this thread did you infer that?
Yes any vet school that claims the intention of creating said school for "rural vet shortage" is 100000000% fishy in their motives for creating said school, because it has been proven time over and over and over and over again that this isn't the solution for "rural vet shortage". The only reason for new vet schools to develop is to make money from the students. Period. And I don't agree with that given the problems our profession currently has. No where does that indicate that students who attend these schools shouldn't receive a DVM, I just believe the motives behind the development of said schools are predatory in nature and there really isn't anything that will change my mind on that.

 

[zoogrl29]

Our profession isn't growing, it is struggling and going to implode very soon if things don't change. Suicide rate of veterinarians is at an all time high. The cost of schooling is well beyond the means of most normal people. The debt is crippling and salaries are stagnant. General practice vets are leaving the field and begging/pleading to find other avenues to practice medicine that isn't clinical medicine because public attitude about care of pets is horrible.

In the veterinary facebook groups I am in, there are a minimum of 2-3 posts per week of people clawing to find a way either out of clinical medicine or out of vet med altogether.

I wouldn't dare encourage anyone to join this profession the way it currently is at this time. It needs a massive overhaul. It is driving people to suicide, crippling people financially and emotionally destroying those within the field. 100% would not encourage. And the fact people want to make more schools and spit out more people into this career is honestly heartbreaking for those of us in veterinary medicine that see the struggles. That is more people whose souls will be crushed and more people to potentially fall victim to our suicide epidemic.

You don’t think most of the issues have to do with the tuition rates? The only way to lower them is to have competition for students. There is no competition right now. These schools can charge us whatever they want, whenever they want. Create new MS programs that cost another 60k and we all fall all over them. They need the competition. Period. Students need to take back some of the power and have choices on where they want to go. Want teaching hospitals? Give us some choices and we will pick those schools over others and wala...they’ll build them.


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[ajs513]

You don’t think most of the issues have to do with the tuition rates? The only way to lower them is to have competition for students. There is no competition right now. These schools can charge us whatever they want, whenever they want. Create new MS programs that cost another 60k and we all fall all over them. They need the competition. Period. Students need to take back some of the power and have choices on where they want to go. Want teaching hospitals? Give us some choices and we will pick those schools over others and wala...they’ll build them.


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The thing is, the number of people applying every year is increasing. As it stands, only half of the students who apply get in. Vet students want to go to vet school. Nothing is going to change that it seems. More schools opening up just means more students will get to go to vet school, not specifically that students will have more schools fighting over them.

 

[DVMDream]

You don’t think most of the issues have to do with the tuition rates? The only way to lower them is to have competition for students. There is no competition right now. These schools can charge us whatever they want, whenever they want. Create new MS programs that cost another 60k and we all fall all over them. They need the competition. Period. Students need to take back some of the power and have choices on where they want to go. Want teaching hospitals? Give us some choices and we will pick those schools over others and wala...they’ll build them.


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No, tuition rates won't decrease because currently there are more applications than seats. There will never be close to competition in veterinary schools at any point in the near future and that isn't how you decrease tuition. The only thing that will alter tuition is a political overhaul of how student debt is handled and a cap on what the federal government can allow a single student to borrow. Increasing veterinary schools has not created any sort of competition and it is kind of silly to think it will. So you want to dump 100s to 1000s more people into a potentially life ending career exponentially until every single person (whether qualified or not) that applies to vet school gets a seat and the schools then fell the pressure to decrease prices? Won't happen. You have seen how many apply for vet school yearly right?

And no, most of the issues in veterinary medicine do not correlate to tuition rates. There are multi-factorial issues that have absolutely nothing to do with tuition.

 

[zoogrl29]

I don’t think this is a strong argument because everyone needs a dentist, not everyone needs a veterinarian 🤔

Ha! A dentist would disagree and so would I. We’ve all had clients with no teeth that would definitely pay for fluffy’s dental over their own. I hate the dentist way more than taking my pet to the vet. Plus a vet visit for normal stuff is way less than one cavity. Oh and the dentist is torture. Pure torture.


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[DVMDream]

Ha! A dentist would disagree and so would I. We’ve all had clients with no teeth that would definitely pay for fluffy’s dental over their own. I hate the dentist way more than taking my pet to the vet. Plus a vet visit for normal stuff is way less than one cavity. Oh and the dentist is torture. Pure torture.


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People electing to not to go to the dentist is on them. Doesn't change the fact that everyone does need a dentist, their decision to neglect their teeth doesn't negate this fact.

 

[zoogrl29]

No, tuition rates won't decrease because currently there are more applications than seats. There will never be close to competition in veterinary schools at any point in the near future and that isn't how you decrease tuition. The only thing that will alter tuition is a political overhaul of how student debt is handled and a cap on what the federal government can allow a single student to borrow. Increasing veterinary schools has not created any sort of competition and it is kind of silly to think it will. So you want to dump 100s more people into a potentially life ending career exponentially until every single person (whether qualified or not) that applies to vet school gets a seat and the schools then fell the pressure to decrease prices? Won't happen. You have seen how many apply for vet school yearly right?

And no, most of the issues in veterinary medicine do not correlate to tuition rates. There are multi-factorial issues that have absolutely nothing to do with tuition.

Oh? So supply and demand have nothing to do with vet school? Leaving school with 500k worth of debt has nothing to do with crushing anxiety and depression when you only make 80k a year? Tell me more.


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[EngrSC]

People electing to not to go to the dentist is on them. Doesn't change the fact that everyone does need a dentist, their decision to neglect their teeth doesn't negate this fact.

Exactly this.

 

[DVMDream]

Oh? So supply and demand have nothing to do with vet school? Leaving school with 500k worth of debt has nothing to do with crushing anxiety and depression when you only make 80k a year? Tell me more.


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The veterinary suicide rate has been at this ultimate high since the 70's back when tuition was very small, it is only being highlighted now because people are starting to care about mental health.


How about listening to those who are through school and working in the field?

 

[zoogrl29]

People electing to not to go to the dentist is on them. Doesn't change the fact that everyone does need a dentist, their decision to neglect their teeth doesn't negate this fact.

With that logic approx 86 mil people have pets (multiple pets in many households) and it doesn’t change the fact that at some point they all need a vet. Their decision to negate their pets doesn’t negate this fact either. [emoji2368]


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[Lupin21]

It really doesn't compute until you have gone through the process and made it to the other side. People will always think those on the other side giving the warning are being overly pessimistic and these warnings won't apply to them. It's really too bad, but as has been said throughout the ages, history is doomed to repeat itself. Yes, there are veterinarians happy in their choices and live life okay, but there are major problems that are not going to be fixed with the current state of things, and as was mentioned, if the economy drops again, the falling out will be even bigger with more graduates out there.

This has nothing to do with an individual's worthiness of becoming a vet. It is about being smart in a world that is not kind to people with blinders on.

 

[DVMDream]

With that logic approx 86 mil people have pets (multiple pets in many households) and it doesn’t change the fact that at some point they all need a vet. Their decision to negate their pets doesn’t negate this fact either. [emoji2368]


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People do not need pets....that's the connection you apparently can't make.

 

[zoogrl29]

The veterinary suicide rate has been at this ultimate high since the 70's back when tuition was very small, it is only being highlighted now because people are starting to care about mental health.


How about listening to those who are through school and working in the field?

I’m 50 and have been in the field since I was 19. Just because I’m not a vet doesn’t mean I don’t have a logical opinion. Vet med has always been short of vets. I can personally attest to the fact every clinic I’ve ever worked has too few vets that are desperately trying to cover their loan payments and trying to see every room they can instead of spreading out the work. Recently one got pissed off because I couldn’t clear the room in less than 5 min and that only left her with 15 min to finish so she could see enough people to pay her loans.


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[zoogrl29]

People do not need pets....that's the connection you apparently can't make.

People don’t “need” pets, but they have them. Some people have more pets than teeth. I’m not sure why you don’t get that either?


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[DVMDream]

I’m 50 and have been in the field since I was 19. Just because I’m not a vet doesn’t mean I don’t have a logical opinion. Vet med has always been short of vets. I can personally attest to the fact every clinic I’ve ever worked has too few vets that are desperately trying to cover their loan payments and trying to see every room they can instead of spreading out the work. Recently one got pissed off because I couldn’t clear the room in less than 5 min and that only left her with 15 min to finish so she could see enough people to pay her loans.


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Yeah, I thought I "got it" as a tech too. You have no idea the reality of why clinics are really short vets until you are a veterinarian yourself. You could spend a lifetime as a tech and you'll never get it.

 

[DVMDream]

People don’t “need” pets, but they have them. Some people have more pets than teeth. I’m not sure why you don’t get that either?


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I get it just fine, doesn't change that medical care for pets is a luxury. Dental care is a need.

I won't go so far to see we don't need vets at all, but the ways in which we need vets aren't what you're thinking.

 

[zoogrl29]

It really doesn't compute until you have gone through the process and made it to the other side. People will always think those on the other side giving the warning are being overly pessimistic and these warnings won't apply to them. It's really too bad, but as has been said throughout the ages, history is doomed to repeat itself. Yes, there are veterinarians happy in their choices and live life okay, but there are major problems that are not going to be fixed with the current state of things, and as was mentioned, if the economy drops again, the falling out will be even bigger with more graduates out there.

This has nothing to do with an individual's worthiness of becoming a vet. It is about being smart in a world that is not kind to people with blinders on.

I don’t have blinders. I have a straight forward plan and SAM isn’t it. There is no money in it. I have a job waiting (if I ever get the chance to get into school) in LAM and 2 years left to vest for my retirement.


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[Lupin21]

Ha! A dentist would disagree and so would I. We’ve all had clients with no teeth that would definitely pay for fluffy’s dental over their own. I hate the dentist way more than taking my pet to the vet. Plus a vet visit for normal stuff is way less than one cavity. Oh and the dentist is torture. Pure torture.


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The problem is, this shouldn't be the case. It is wrong for person to put themselves in financial ruin for their pets. Most know that, but you will have to face this problem all the time as the one on the lines dealing with people who don't know when to say no to expensive care. You are not seeing the picture from the side of being the doctor in this scenario.

 

[zoogrl29]

The problem is, this shouldn't be the case. It is wrong for person to put themselves in financial ruin for their pets. Most know that, but you will have to face this problem all the time as the one on the lines dealing with people who don't know when to say no to expensive care. You are not seeing the picture from the side of being the doctor in this scenario.

To be clear, I’m not the one that started the dental school comparisons. A vet on this thread was? I merely brought up more facts about how it was odd in the first place to compare the two considering there were more than twice as many dental school than vet schools. I think everyone missed my point on that. I still stand by supply and demand mentalities about school. The more there are the more they’ll try to compete, instead of us begging and killing each other(seriously it’s vicious) in MS programs (the most predatory of it all).


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[Lupin21]

I don’t have blinders. I have a straight forward plan and SAM isn’t it. There is no money in it. I have a job waiting (if I ever get the chance to get into school) in LAM and 2 years left to vest for my retirement.


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While it's good you have a plan, the statements you have made in regards to opening more schools as the answer to tuition is not practical. The fact also remains that most people will end up in small animal GP and there is much factoring into making that life quite different than people think going into it. I think all this is not going to set in though with you having your mind set, so I'm just going to say I hope things work out for you.

 

[DVMDream]

To be clear, I’m not the one that started the dental school comparisons. A vet on this thread was? I merely brought up more facts about how it was odd in the first place to compare the two considering there were more than twice as many dental school than vet schools. I think everyone missed my point on that. I still stand by supply and demand mentalities about school. The more there are the more they’ll try to compete, instead of us begging and killing each other(seriously it’s vicious) in MS programs (the most predatory of it all).


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So how many lives are you willing to sacrifice until we have opened enough vet schools to flip flop this supply/demand? Do you really think there's that many open vet positions (that can actually pay a proper salary) to sustain the thousands of extra vets that you're wanting to come out so the supply/demand flips?

 

[zoogrl29]

So how many lives are you willing to sacrifice until we have opened enough vet schools to flip flop this supply/demand? Do you really think there's that many open vet positions (that can actually pay a proper salary) to sustain the thousands of extra vets that you're wanting to come out so the supply/demand flips?

Isn’t there a demand at the CDC? Industry? What about the new schools that need vets to teach?!! There are jobs...the schools focus on picking people interested in SAM. That’s definitely an issue. I was told it’s my biggest problem with my app other than my age. That I should say I want to work in a clinic and then change my route after getting in.


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[itsrocky]

I think perhaps there’s pre vets in this thread that are taking the criticism of new schools opening much too personal... I promise it’s not meant to be. A lot of us here just see the bigger picture, and it’s modeled after what’s happened to basically every other profession. The new schools want profit. That’s their bottom line. As much as they spout other reasons. They just want to line their pockets. Point blank period. It’s not an affront on your or any other applicant to point that out.

 

[Lupin21]

Isn’t there a demand at the CDC? Industry? What about the new schools that need vets to teach?!! There are jobs...the schools focus on picking people interested in SAM. That’s definitely an issue. I was told it’s my biggest problem with my app other than my age. That I should say I want to work in a clinic and then change my route after getting in.


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This isn't accurate. The demand for CDC and Industry is really not that high, and those industries want advanced training, same with most teaching positions. And teaching positions are also being left vacant because private practice pays a lot more. I don't know if you have kept up with some of the class threads, but there are many open teaching and hospital positions at the schools already in existence, and it isn't because of a lack of people to fill them. Much like the rural vet shortage oddly enough.

 

[DVMDream]

Isn’t there a demand at the CDC? Industry? What about the new schools that need vets to teach?!! There are jobs...the schools focus on picking people interested in SAM. That’s definitely an issue. I was told it’s my biggest problem with my app other than my age. That I should say I want to work in a clinic and then change my route after getting in.


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There's no demand at the CDC, I know I have a vet friend that works there.

Industry is very difficult to break into, the competition is fierce because of the number of vets wanting to leave clinical med into industry. If you don't already have industry experience, you aren't getting in.

Teaching tech school is possible for most vets but the pay isn't great. An actual vet position at a vet school without additional internship/residency is difficult. Not that many GP teaching positions and you still needs years of experience to be selected for teaching positions.

That's the problem, there are jobs, tons of small animal GP jobs. Some with decent salaries, most without.

 

[itsrocky]

There’s a dental school that I won’t name but is easily searchable, where the total cost of attendance exceeds $600,000. And they have no problem getting more than enough applications and building a class of over 300.

 

[WildZoo]

You don’t think most of the issues have to do with the tuition rates? The only way to lower them is to have competition for students. There is no competition right now. These schools can charge us whatever they want, whenever they want. Create new MS programs that cost another 60k and we all fall all over them. They need the competition. Period. Students need to take back some of the power and have choices on where they want to go. Want teaching hospitals? Give us some choices and we will pick those schools over others and wala...they’ll build them.


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Has this theory in any way been supported by the reality of the situation? There are no schools, as far as I know, lowering tuition. There are no schools opening with low tuition to attract students. If opening new schools was going to do that, then the new schools wouldn't be charging the same tuition as everywhere else...

 

[Georgethecat]

These are complex, multifaceted issues where there is no simple answer. I don’t think anyone here meant to denigrate anyone’s opinion or say that a pre-vet on this site doesn’t deserve to go to vet school.

My opinion, and we all know what opinions are like and that everyone has one , is that more schools won’t drive down the cost of current schools. Back in the day when new law schools were being opened left and right, cost didn’t go down. Once the market was glutted, schools started struggling and grads struggled to find jobs.

In any professional career (vet, law, medicine, dental), the unfortunate reality is that there will always be more qualified applicants than there are seats.
Anecdotal fact, dental school even as an instate student is NOT cheap. Tuition might be only $25k (public school Dental College of Georgia), but mandatory fees and equipment rentals bring the cost up to $40.5k per year and that does NOT include cost of living.

I really appreciate how inclusive and nice the pre-vet forum on SDN is. Go hang out in the other forums and it’s a lot more brutal (generally speaking I’m not sure they even intend or realize that’s the way it comes off). Pharmacy and dental and even med students are trying to figure out how they will be able to pay off crazy high student loan balances and have a life after school. Most vet salaries don’t come close to dental or med salaries hence the increased stress to keep loan balances low.

It’s not just the new schools or the ones trying to open that should be held accountable for their price tag. All schools should. Again complex issue, but most public vet schools have seen the $ they receive from the state shrink to ridiculously low percentages. As with undergrad institutions, students are attracted to schools that have nice, updated facilities that stay on the cutting edge for their fields. All of that costs money. If it were simple, all public vet schools would charge approx the same for instate tuition and the reality is they don’t.

Like many others here, I’d love to know why the schools without teaching hospitals have the same price tag as those that do????? Of course the new schools have start up costs, but those are built into the long term. It’s not like the first 8 classes pay for it and then suddenly the tuition goes down for future classes.

This has been an interesting and thought provoking discussion. Let’s all try to keep it nice, not take anything too personally, and encourage dialogue

 

[MixedAnimals77]

There’s a dental school that I won’t name but is easily searchable, where the total cost of attendance exceeds $600,000. And they have no problem getting more than enough applications and building a class of over 300.

It's a societal problem to some degree and not supply and demand imo and your example demonstrates it perfectly. People wanting to pursue careers no matter the cost because it "fulfills" them or the "I couldn't do anything else" thinking. If being 350k, 400k, 500k+ in debt just in student loans was unacceptable, not supported by the government, and people learned to limit themselves perhaps it wouldn't be this huge issue. If you have a solid plan to pay that 400k that's not on something like IBR and hoping the government doesn't screw a person over great, do whatever if that's what you want. Most these vets taking out that kind of money don't have that plan and it is in part going to kill our profession to a degree especially as we start to see IBR start and people having to pay these large lump sums to the IRS-if they even can. Being a vet wasn't worth more than 200k in loans personally for what I want to do-I would have walked away to another career easily. I know many people that flat out won't do it because it's all they've ever wanted to do. Not that those people don't deserve to be veterinarians, but these are the people that super expensive schools like LIU are targeting in and is in my opinion predatory and should not be opening/opened. They are targeting many applicants who got denied by other veterinary schools with lower costs because they know the students will take out the student loans even if it makes their life essentially unlivable after as long as they get to pursue their dream.

Do I agree with more schools opening not really. Is the demand there currently sure, but like someone else said as soon as another recession hits alot of vets will be hurting- my practice back home almost went under last time, reduced to the owning vet and two other people at what is usually at least 3-4 FT veterinary practice. It's also not going to solve the LA shortage because that problem is multifactorial with so many factors. There are alot of economic issues in vet med on the front end that need to be dealt with before all these new schools keep opening up.

 

[itsrocky]

It's a societal problem to some degree and not supply and demand imo and your example demonstrates it perfectly. People wanting to pursue careers no matter the cost because it "fulfills" them or the "I couldn't do anything else" thinking. If being 350k, 400k, 500k+ in debt just in student loans was unacceptable, not supported by the government, and people learned to limit themselves perhaps it wouldn't be this huge issue. If you have a solid plan to pay that 400k that's not on something like IBR and hoping the government doesn't screw a person over great, do whatever if that's what you want. Most these vets taking out that kind of money don't have that plan and it is in part going to kill our profession to a degree especially as we start to see IBR start and people having to pay these large lump sums to the IRS-if they even can. Being a vet wasn't worth more than 200k in loans personally for what I want to do-I would have walked away to another career easily. I know many people that flat out won't do it because it's all they've ever wanted to do. Not that those people don't deserve to be veterinarians, but these are the people that super expensive schools like LIU are targeting in and is in my opinion predatory and should not be opening/opened. They are targeting many applicants who got denied by other veterinary schools with lower costs because they know the students will take out the student loans even if it makes their life essentially unlivable after as long as they get to pursue their dream.

Do I agree with more schools opening not really. Is the demand there currently sure, but like someone else said as soon as another recession hits alot of vets will be hurting- my practice back home almost went under last time, reduced to the owning vet and two other people at what is usually at least 3-4 FT veterinary practice. It's also not going to solve the LA shortage because that problem is multifactorial with so many factors. There are alot of economic issues in vet med on the front end that need to be dealt with before all these new schools keep opening up.

to add, I’m saying all this as someone who personally made this decision—my debt is pretty up there and my only plan at present is PAYE and prayer. Many of us not supportive of the new schools are affected by this.

 

[amwildlife]

I will ask. If there is not much support for the new schools from current and practicing veterinarians, what would you suggest? New schools are going to continue opening, so how can we create schools everyone will support? I feel like this is going to be a never ending battle with change always occurring.


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[Lupin21]

I will ask. If there is not much support for the new schools from current and practicing veterinarians, what would you suggest? New schools are going to continue opening, so how can we create schools everyone will support? I feel like this is going to be a never ending battle with change always occurring.


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That is the problem. Nothing is changing, it is multiplying the problems already present with regards to high tuition and ignoring the professions' problems once grads are out. There is nothing anyone can do though because the COE has already backed themselves into a corner with no out. The best those of us who can see the trouble can do is to try and educate those still willing to fall into those traps to be smart. AVMA and COE cannot protect anyone anymore.

 

[flameshock]

I will ask. If there is not much support for the new schools from current and practicing veterinarians, what would you suggest? New schools are going to continue opening, so how can we create schools everyone will support? I feel like this is going to be a never ending battle with change always occurring.


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I don’t think this is accurate to the reality being described here. No one replying In this thread has implied they are against new vet schools because they don’t want change and are resisting something new. They’re against it because the practice is damaging the sustainability of our profession. You can’t create schools everyone will support because their existence is outright harmful.

 

[amwildlife]

That is the problem. Nothing is changing, it is multiplying the problems already present with regards to high tuition and ignoring the professions' problems once grads are out. There is nothing anyone can do though because the COE has already backed themselves into a corner with no out. The best those of us who can see the trouble can do is to try and educate those still willing to fall into those traps to be smart. AVMA and COE cannot protect anyone anymore.

But new schools wont stop opening, not everyone is on SDN and no matter how had you try you wont be able to keep people from applying.

My question stands as to what can be done to aid the new schools that are opening to being accepted? What do you guys think they SHOULD they do to be accepted.


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[ziggyandjazzy]

That being said, dental school costs a fraction of what vet school does (21,000 IS, 64,000 OOS).

Not sure where you even got this idea?

My cousin goes to our IS dental school and his tuition alone is 44k a year. My tuition, in the same state, for vet school is 25k a year. OOS tuition is 48k, much closer to what dental IS students pay.

I realize this is n=1 but I have no idea where you got the idea that dental school costs a fraction of what vet school does?

 

[itsrocky]

But new schools wont stop opening, not everyone is on SDN and no matter how had you try you wont be able to keep people from applying.

My question stands as to what can be done to aid the new schools that are opening to being accepted? What do you guys think they SHOULD they do to be accepted.


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charge reasonable tuition amounts would be a big start...

 

[Lupin21]

But new schools wont stop opening, not everyone is on SDN and no matter how had you try you wont be able to keep people from applying.

My question stands as to what can be done to aid the new schools that are opening to being accepted? What do you guys think they SHOULD they do to be accepted.


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It's already been said. Provide affordable education for their given reason of opening that would actually allow someone to take a rural veterinary salary.