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If anyone needs a vet school (and one is totes not needed), it's NJ. Huge population. No contract seats. Rutgers has a big ag problem.
 
Rwwilliams said:
Distributive model lessens costs for the school... which is weird because my tuition is just as high as any OOSer... I miss in undergrad where we got a breakdown of where our tuition went. I have no idea where my tuition dollars get except for an assurance from the Dean that it's not going towards our new shelter med certificate program -- which I'd actually be fine with it going to.
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oh okay gotcha! Have you really liked the distributive model so far? Have you had an experience at both, and what are your thoughts on them? For me I think I would be nervous about having really variable experience at a distributive model (for example certain clinics not letting you do things, not teaching you, or treating you really really badly), since it would be hard to regulate 300+ clinics.... though I suppose those who say "it's better because you don't get the ivy tower fluff and therefore more like real practice" could have a point too. :shrug:
 
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WildZoo said:
55 sounds real nice. We have 88. There are still a couple people whose names refuse to stick on my head. Agree that 240 is crazy.
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55 sounds tiny to me! We have 114 and there are quite a few people that I've barely met or haven't spoken to at all, but I'm used to big schools/cities and not knowing everybody, so it's fine by me. And it has only been a month, there's still tons of time to get to know different people. But I agree 240 is way too many! I think somewhere around 100 is about right, but I guess it's good that there's some variation for people who want a bit smaller or larger class.

ETA: Oh, and K-State has an equine ICU too, but I have no idea what it looks like or consists of.
 
WildZoo said:
I guess I don't quite understand how the distributive model works. Is there no teaching hospital at all? One of my favorite parts of vet school has been wandering around the hospital in my free time, going to rounds, etc.
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We have a hospital but it's not a VMTH. It's more general/community practice but we do a medicine rotation there and there are plenty of specialists present that we can call/email for consults. Does that make sense?

Ashgirl said:
oh okay gotcha! Have you really liked the distributive model so far? Have you had an experience at both, and what are your thoughts on them? For me I think I would be nervous about having really variable experience at a distributive model (for example certain clinics not letting you do things, not teaching you, or treating you really really badly), since it would be hard to regulate 300+ clinics.... though I suppose those who say "it's better because you don't get the ivy tower fluff and therefore more like real practice" could have a point too. :shrug:
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Well, you've kind of answered your own questions 😉 Yeah, regulation is a little... well, not possible. Especially because my school allows students to seek approval for whatever clinic they decide is appropriate for fourth year. There are certain requirements but they basically boil down to the presence of a specialist for what you're looking for and the clinic being willing to take you. The problem you run into with that is students wanting to be in a certain geographic area and choosing poorer clinics, getting them approved, and then getting no training for a month.

The school sends faculty members to some sites, but that makes up probably 10% of them. They do site visits for all third year sites and our "core" sites for fourth year. That being said, I don't think it makes a difference. Like I've said before, I've been to sites, that were assigned by the school, where they wanted nothing to do with me and I was essentially ignored for a month. Questions like "What do you think of TTA-2s?" were answered with "Ugh. Why would you ever do anything other than a TPLO? What a ridiculous question." That's a site that gets routine site visits (as in, at least once a month year round), and has a reputation both among students and faculty of being a poor site. So, why is it still an approved site that we require students to go to? I had to spend thousands of dollars to stay at an extended stay and rent a car to spend a month at a site with a reputation of not being student-friendly and not providing an appropriate learning environment.

On the other hand, I do get some benefits that other students don't. I get to see a lot of places I want to apply for internships at and I'm able to get a real feel as to how the hospital and staff work. I can schedule things around or during interviews, and I can schedule vacation time at NAVLE without requiring any kind of approval from the school. When it comes to the surgery rotations I've had, I generally receive more hands on than students at other schools because I'm not fighting for space with the surgeon, an intern, and a resident. I get more one-on-one time with clinicians because, at least for fourth year, I'm usually the only student present. I get less direct patient responsibility, which can be a pro or con depending on the type of person you are. I spend a whole month on rotations instead of the typical 2-3 weeks and so that can definitely be beneficial when considering asking for letters of recommendation. I think it's helpful that I see so many different methods, techniques, and opinions although that can be tricky in itself. I went to a place recently where they didn't use radio-opaque gauze in the abdomen, didn't flush the abdomen after an enterotomy, cut their suture and drapes with the same scissors they used for blunt and sharp dissection... obviously all of these things lie somewhere in the realm of acceptable (and if these people have had no issues with it, more power to them!) but I wouldn't want fourth year vet students thinking that is the standard way to do it and an acceptable method for a new grad. These are all generalizations, and there are definitely exceptions to the rule.

Now that I'm halfway through fourth year and officially 3/4 of the way through clinics in total, I think that I would have preferred a school with a VMTH. That being said, I think I'll do just fine and be completely on par with most graduates despite potentially not being in the best program for me personally.
 
Rwwilliams said:
I went to a place recently where they didn't use radio-opaque gauze in the abdomen, didn't flush the abdomen after an enterotomy, cut their suture and drapes with the same scissors they used for blunt and sharp dissection... obviously all of these things lie somewhere in the realm of acceptable (and if these people have had no issues with it, more power to them!) but I wouldn't want fourth year vet students thinking that is the standard way to do it and an acceptable method for a new grad. These are all generalizations, and there are definitely exceptions to the rule.
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Haha you would have had a fit at one of my shelter rotations. Our spay pack (for dogs and cats) consisted of a 10 blade, two mosquitoes, two carmalts, a spay hook, olsen-hegars, a pair of rando forceps and a couple (most definitely not radio-opaque) gauze. Drape - when the pack had one - had a hole in it already. TKX to knock them out and set and forget dogs on iso, cats just plopped on the sx table and they'd throw a mask on if they started moving. They had to dig out the cap and masks from a cupboard for me.

Working with that (I did a ton of surgeries in those conditions) didn't make me more inclined to do things that way in my job, any more than being at the school and seeing a surgeon who can't make a cut without cautery and three assistants to dab made me more like him. People will figure out their comfort level on the spectrum of absolute crap -> academia, lots of their decisions will be made by their clinic/boss out of their hands anyway, and if they're good vets, I don't think seeing the ways different places do things will stop'em from looking up how to do an enterotomy (including flushing) before doing it. I think it's more good than bad to see many levels and types of clinics before graduation.
 
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Trilt said:
Haha you would have had a fit at one of my shelter rotations. Our spay pack (for dogs and cats) consisted of a 10 blade, two mosquitoes, two carmalts, a spay hook, olsen-hegars, a pair of rando forceps and a couple (most definitely not radio-opaque) gauze. Drape - when the pack had one - had a hole in it already. TKX to knock them out and set and forget dogs on iso, cats just plopped on the sx table and they'd throw a mask on if they started moving. They had to dig out the cap and masks from a cupboard for me.

Working with that (I did a ton of surgeries in those conditions) didn't make me more inclined to do things that way in my job, any more than being at the school and seeing a surgeon who can't make a cut without cautery and three assistants to dab made me more like him. People will figure out their comfort level on the spectrum of absolute crap -> academia, lots of their decisions will be made by their clinic/boss out of their hands anyway, and if they're good vets, I don't think seeing the ways different places do things will stop'em from looking up how to do an enterotomy (including flushing) before doing it. I think it's more good than bad to see many levels and types of clinics before graduation.
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I've absolutely done spays and neuters under those situations as well, and I didn't have a fit 😛 Last year, I was doing spays and neuters at a dairy farm on their break room table with essentially that. We didn't even have masks or scrub caps. Like I said, it falls in the realm of acceptable. However, my point was more that, would you be satisfied with those conditions if it was a board certified surgeon in a fully stocked facility with all the bells and whistles?

As far as it not making you more inclined to do things that way in the future, you also had more training than just that shelter rotation. I'm assuming you had an ortho rotation, or a soft tissue rotation, or at the very least classroom time. We don't. We have some spay and neuter experience throughout the first three years that is your typical low cost shelter medicine (except for the fact that we do get cautery and capno for our third year shelter rotation), but other than that your fourth year surgery rotation is it unless you also schedule an elective.

You are right though. If they're good vets, they should look up how to do these things beforehand and hopefully stumble upon those little things that got missed during vet school.
 
Abnerrs said:
We have 126 people in my class. And I could tell you every single one of their names!

Though, I was sunshine chair for my class. It was my job to being cheer to my class. Soooooooooooo
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Now I want to propose that we add that as a job for our class.

Though I think there are a couple people who basically already do it 😍
 
Ashgirl said:
Yeah... here's one of the articles I was looking at said that they want 240 per class... but don't you know that all 240 will all be large animal vets in underprivileged areas???? 🙄
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I think that is a misprint. I heard that they want "30-40" students
 
Just got a text from a friend at TTU's pharmacy school in Amarillo. They started breaking ground for the new vet school across the street...
 
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hazelmoo said:
Just got a text from a friend at TTU's pharmacy school in Amarillo. They started breaking ground for the new vet school across the street...
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Really? I didnt realize they were moving so quickly.....when are they planning to open?
 
And Texas Tech is following the "no teaching hospital" model. Isn't that one of the biggest complaints against some of the newer schools? I know I actually really like having the teaching hospital on site
 
batsenecal said:
And Texas Tech is following the "no teaching hospital" model. Isn't that one of the biggest complaints against some of the newer schools? I know I actually really like having the teaching hospital on site
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It is one of the biggest complaints.

On the flip side, there are people who say it makes the education better by getting students out into 'real world' practices for their fourth year. But personally, I am skeptical you can ensure students are exposed to everything they should be fourth year with that model.
 
LetItSnow said:
It is one of the biggest complaints.

On the flip side, there are people who say it makes the education better by getting students out into 'real world' practices for their fourth year. But personally, I am skeptical you can ensure students are exposed to everything they should be fourth year with that model.
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But you can't ensure that in a teaching hospital either. Stuff either happens when a student is there, or it doesn't. Even with a teaching hospital and a 3 month externship placement, I still didn't see a blocked cat or an AG abscess until I was out in practice.
 
CalliopeDVM said:
But you can't ensure that in a teaching hospital either. Stuff either happens when a student is there, or it doesn't. Even with a teaching hospital and a 3 month externship placement, I still didn't see a blocked cat or an AG abscess until I was out in practice.
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You can ensure it to a better degree than elsewhere. For instance, every service I was in had a very scheduled teaching plan for daily rounds to cover all the material they felt important for that rotation. Sure, you can't guarantee that a specific type of CASE comes in, but that's not all there is to fourth year.
 
LetItSnow said:
You can ensure it to a better degree than elsewhere. For instance, every service I was in had a very scheduled teaching plan for daily rounds to cover all the material they felt important for that rotation. Sure, you can't guarantee that a specific type of CASE comes in, but that's not all there is to fourth year.
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And with how busy we get at work there is no way that we can set aside time to discuss topics or cases in a rounds based way like how vet school is set up to fourth year students should schools start shipping students out to general practices in the area. I am already staying late most days by an hour or two just to get my own SOAPs typed up and tie up any loose ends/callbacks I haven't been able to complete during the day. Having to do rounds with a student would end with me being at work until 10PM and I'm already cranky enough with a 730/8AM -8/830/9PM shift.
 
South Dakota State mulls joint veterinary school with Minnesota

Bumping the thread to share this story. Apparently there's been talk of creating a 2+2 DVM program between South Dakota State University and the University of Minnesota. This will "provide well-educated food animal veterinarians with stronger ties to South Dakota would be an asset to the livestock and animal industries of the state, and, as proposed, would decrease costs and time for the students". There are concerns about being able to attract enough applicants/students for the proposed 20 seats. "According to the report, historically, 10 to 12 South Dakota residents each year enrolled in a U.S. veterinary school, of which there are 30. In the past two years, however, South Dakota enrollments were much lower, at six."

So it's the same justification that we've heard before: we don't have enough large animal veterinarians in rural podunk town.

I also don't really see how it'd be cheaper for students. South Dakota students currently on contract with Iowa State pay just a smidge higher than IS Iowa State students, which is still on the lower end of prices as far as vet school goes. On the other hand, I believe Minnesota has one of the higher IS tuition rates, which is what I assume those from South Dakota partaking in this 2+2 program would be paying. COL between Iowa, Minnesota, and South Dakota are probably about on par with each other.

Thoughts?
 
Elkhart said:
South Dakota State mulls joint veterinary school with Minnesota

Bumping the thread to share this story. Apparently there's been talk of creating a 2+2 DVM program between South Dakota State University and the University of Minnesota. This will "provide well-educated food animal veterinarians with stronger ties to South Dakota would be an asset to the livestock and animal industries of the state, and, as proposed, would decrease costs and time for the students". There are concerns about being able to attract enough applicants/students for the proposed 20 seats. "According to the report, historically, 10 to 12 South Dakota residents each year enrolled in a U.S. veterinary school, of which there are 30. In the past two years, however, South Dakota enrollments were much lower, at six."

So it's the same justification that we've heard before: we don't have enough large animal veterinarians in rural podunk town.

I also don't really see how it'd be cheaper for students. South Dakota students currently on contract with Iowa State pay just a smidge higher than IS Iowa State students, which is still on the lower end of prices as far as vet school goes. On the other hand, I believe Minnesota has one of the higher IS tuition rates, which is what I assume those from South Dakota partaking in this 2+2 program would be paying. COL between Iowa, Minnesota, and South Dakota are probably about on par with each other.

Thoughts?
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Ugh. Our clinicians were already talking about how they've had to keep increasing the max amount of students per rotation to accommodate more island students, I bet they'd just be tickled pink to add another 20 students to that.

In reality though it's all money grubbing in my opinion at this point. South Dakota residents already can apply for in state tuition at UMN. Which is one of the highest tuition rates around.

I feel like it would just be doing a disservice to everyone involved increasing the class size by 20% in the last two years, reducing opportunities for everyone, and saddling more students with higher debt.

Ugh. Do not support.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using SDN mobile
 
kcoughli said:
Ugh. Our clinicians were already talking about how they've had to keep increasing the max amount of students per rotation to accommodate more island students, I bet they'd just be tickled pink to add another 20 students to that.

In reality though it's all money grubbing in my opinion at this point. South Dakota residents already can apply for in state tuition at UMN. Which is one of the highest tuition rates around.

I feel like it would just be doing a disservice to everyone involved increasing the class size by 20% in the last two years, reducing opportunities for everyone, and saddling more students with higher debt.

Ugh. Do not support.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using SDN mobile
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I actually didn't know that South Dakota residents could get IS tuition at Minnesota. Interesting.

And I misread the article initially; looks like they're wanting to tier the tuition prices:
The task force posits a tiered tuition and fee schedule under which six students would pay the equivalent of in-state costs at Iowa State, $21,098 per year. (The figure appears to have changed since the SDSU report was prepared; it is shown on the Iowa State website as $23,572.) Other South Dakota residents would pay an in-state rate comparable to SDSU graduate school tuition and fees of $27,345.

The budget model assumes half of students would come from Minnesota and pay Minnesota in-state tuition and fees, currently $31,700 per year.

Students from other states would pay the equivalent of the out-of-state tuition and fees charged at the Minnesota veterinary school, currently $56,972 per year.
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So it sounds like, if this plan comes to fruition, that they expect some applicants from Minnesota and OOS for the 2+2 program? Would there really be that much interest in it outside of South Dakota residents? The way UNL does it, for example, is that only Nebraska residents are eligible to apply, and I assumed that the current 2+2 programs all operated similarly, but I could definitely be incorrect on that point. The only reasons I could think of for opening it up to all applicants is 1) $$ and 2) they wouldn't receive enough applications if it were just a South Dakota resident thing... but then I feel like that defeats the purpose. Especially because it doesn't actually save South Dakota residents any money---under this proposition, they'd be paying exactly the same thing for tuition/fees that they would be at Iowa State if they're lucky enough to be one of the 6 students who get that price. If not, they're paying more than what they'd be charged on contract at Iowa State.

Yeah, Iowa State reportedly takes in a good number of island students for fourth year, too, and we get lots of transfers. So with 25 UNL students + 130 ISU students + transfers + island students... I seriously question if there will be enough cases to go around, especially on the less busy services. Not only that, but our classrooms are all pretty full already just with those of us currently in my class; I don't know how they expect to be able to seat the UNL students once they move here next year. I've heard/read stories from some of the first few UNL/ISU grads about having to sit on the floor and it just being really crammed in general, and that program started about 10 years ago, so there's definitely been class size increases at Iowa State since then. Maybe there's been new infrastructure put in place since the inception of the UNL/ISU program. I don't know.
 
Elkhart said:
I actually didn't know that South Dakota residents could get IS tuition at Minnesota. Interesting.

And I misread the article initially; looks like they're wanting to tier the tuition prices:

So it sounds like, if this plan comes to fruition, that they expect some applicants from Minnesota and OOS for the 2+2 program? Would there really be that much interest in it outside of South Dakota residents? The way UNL does it, for example, is that only Nebraska residents are eligible to apply, and I assumed that the current 2+2 programs all operated similarly, but I could definitely be incorrect on that point. The only reasons I could think of for opening it up to all applicants is 1) $$ and 2) they wouldn't receive enough applications if it were just a South Dakota resident thing... but then I feel like that defeats the purpose. Especially because it doesn't actually save South Dakota residents any money---under this proposition, they'd be paying exactly the same thing for tuition/fees that they would be at Iowa State if they're lucky enough to be one of the 6 students who get that price. If not, they're paying more than what they'd be charged on contract at Iowa State.

Yeah, Iowa State reportedly takes in a good number of island students for fourth year, too, and we get lots of transfers. So with 25 UNL students + 130 ISU students + transfers + island students... I seriously question if there will be enough cases to go around, especially on the less busy services. Not only that, but our classrooms are all pretty full already just with those of us currently in my class; I don't know how they expect to be able to seat the UNL students once they move here next year. I've heard/read stories from some of the first few UNL/ISU grads about having to sit on the floor and it just being really crammed in general, and that program started about 10 years ago, so there's definitely been class size increases at Iowa State since then. Maybe there's been new infrastructure put in place since the inception of the UNL/ISU program. I don't know.
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I never had issues finding a seat when I did show up for class. Clinics is a different story, depends on the rotation and how many students happen to be in it as far as cases go, not seats.

I don't like any proposition for additional vet schools until they all start to show serious interest in resolving the debt issue and all take serious interest in the suicide issue which is, in part, related to the debt issue. This south Dakota program won't increase rural vets for them...there isn't enough money for vets to make there to pay the debt they ask us to accumulate.
 
DVMDream said:
I never had issues finding a seat when I did show up for class. Clinics is a different story, depends on the rotation and how many students happen to be in it as far as cases go, not seats.
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Good to hear about the seats! Like I said, the UNL/ISU students I talked to about it were grads from the first few years of the 2+2 program, so I was hoping that things had been improved and smoothed out since then. It just already feels cramped in some of the rooms. I figured as much regarding clinics, yeah.

DVMDream said:
I don't like any proposition for additional vet schools until they all start to show serious interest in resolving the debt issue and all take serious interest in the suicide issue which is, in part, related to the debt issue. This south Dakota program won't increase rural vets for them...there isn't enough money for vets to make there to pay the debt they ask us to accumulate.
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Completely agreed.
 
Elkhart said:
Good to hear about the seats! Like I said, the UNL/ISU students I talked to about it were grads from the first few years of the 2+2 program, so I was hoping that things had been improved and smoothed out since then. It just already feels cramped in some of the rooms. I figured as much regarding clinics, yeah.


Completely agreed.
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I think a lot schools are starting to feel the space problem. Some teaching hospitals were built for classes half the size of what the schools now have today, before you count island students. Not exactly easing your concern, but just know it's not just one school that's having this issue.

The class of 2020 at U of I has 30ish extra students to deal with in a hospital that already has issues fitting 130 + island students at times. A lot of rounds rooms are just not big enough anymore. People pull in chairs and you're tripping on laptop cords and everything. Plus we get 8 weeks/year on clinics as first and second years, so depending on the time of year, the hospital has just under 300 or so students running around with a normal class size.

The good news is that some unused rooms are being converted into space for the services that need it, but that is just a bandaid.
 
Elkhart said:
I actually didn't know that South Dakota residents could get IS tuition at Minnesota. Interesting.
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Yep. Straight from the UMN admissions website "All students from South Dakota are eligible for reciprocity." And a limited number of North Dakota students are as well. And filling the leftover seats with MN residents is just absurd. If you're going to do that then just increase the class size at UMN and be done with it. But they can't do that because, as you all have pointed out, seating is becoming scarce with the class size as it is now.

It smacks as nothing but pure straight greed and is infuriating to hear about honestly.
 
kcoughli said:
Yep. Straight from the UMN admissions website "All students from South Dakota are eligible for reciprocity." And a limited number of North Dakota students are as well. And filling the leftover seats with MN residents is just absurd. If you're going to do that then just increase the class size at UMN and be done with it. But they can't do that because, as you all have pointed out, seating is becoming scarce with the class size as it is now.

It smacks as nothing but pure straight greed and is infuriating to hear about honestly.
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So did you read the article about the 2+2 school that South Dakota is considering opening so "fill their need for rural veterinarians"? A similar 2+2 to the other(s) -- first 2 years in South Dakota, then finish out 2 years at UMN.

How is it that <NOBODY> seems to understand that the reason there is a need for rural veterinarians is because nobody can afford to BE a rural veterinarian anymore? Making more vets is exactly the wrong solution. "Hey! This demand area can't afford vets, so let's increase the supply to it to drive down their salaries EVEN MORE!"

Brilliant!
 
Elkhart said:
Good to hear about the seats! Like I said, the UNL/ISU students I talked to about it were grads from the first few years of the 2+2 program, so I was hoping that things had been improved and smoothed out since then. It just already feels cramped in some of the rooms. I figured as much regarding clinics, yeah.


Completely agreed.
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We have been hearing some horror stories about things in the old days when the program at UNL/ISU program started, but it has been smooth sailing for us so far. The second years are the first ones in the new $45 million Veterinary Diagnostic Lab and there are some technical issues that should be sorted out before we get over there.
 
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ResoluteMike said:
We have been hearing some horror stories about things in the old days when the program at UNL/ISU program started, but it has been smooth sailing for us so far. The second years are the first ones in the new $45 million Veterinary Diagnostic Lab and they are some technical issues that should be sorted out before we get over there.
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Meh. Facilities are overrated. UMN loves to talk about their new facilities as they put them in place - the new equine hospital years ago, now the new small animal "GP practice within the hospital" (it's designed to represent a standalone GP practice), the new student surgery redesign, the new study area and "group learning" room, etc. And sure, when I took people on tours I pointed all that stuff out. And they're 'neat'.

But what do I remember? Certain instructors.

Do I remember when my class was cramped into a 1950s classroom for a month because of construction? Sure. But did it matter? Nope.

I mean yeah, you need adequate facilities. But you want to give a good education? Invest in your instructors.

I just heard that one of my favorite instructors is leaving UMN. Absolutely *INSANE* to lose her. Smart, tough, excellent teacher, generous with her time .... she left a mark on me professionally, and you just CANNOT replace people like that. But nope, they lost her to another school.

Poor decision-making.

(Not saying a new $45M VDL isn't useful or cool... just... meh. It's important for other reasons, but not vet school.)
 
LetItSnow said:
Meh. Facilities are overrated. UMN loves to talk about their new facilities as they put them in place - the new equine hospital years ago, now the new small animal "GP practice within the hospital" (it's designed to represent a standalone GP practice), the new student surgery redesign, the new study area and "group learning" room, etc. And sure, when I took people on tours I pointed all that stuff out. And they're 'neat'.

But what do I remember? Certain instructors.

Do I remember when my class was cramped into a 1950s classroom for a month because of construction? Sure. But did it matter? Nope.

I mean yeah, you need adequate facilities. But you want to give a good education? Invest in your instructors.

I just heard that one of my favorite instructors is leaving UMN. Absolutely *INSANE* to lose her. Smart, tough, excellent teacher, generous with her time .... she left a mark on me professionally, and you just CANNOT replace people like that. But nope, they lost her to another school.

Poor decision-making.

(Not saying a new $45M VDL isn't useful or cool... just... meh. It's important for other reasons, but not vet school.)
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I am excited because the second year classroom has windows and sunshine.
 
LetItSnow said:
Meh. Facilities are overrated. UMN loves to talk about their new facilities as they put them in place - the new equine hospital years ago, now the new small animal "GP practice within the hospital" (it's designed to represent a standalone GP practice), the new student surgery redesign, the new study area and "group learning" room, etc. And sure, when I took people on tours I pointed all that stuff out. And they're 'neat'.

But what do I remember? Certain instructors.

Do I remember when my class was cramped into a 1950s classroom for a month because of construction? Sure. But did it matter? Nope.

I mean yeah, you need adequate facilities. But you want to give a good education? Invest in your instructors.

I just heard that one of my favorite instructors is leaving UMN. Absolutely *INSANE* to lose her. Smart, tough, excellent teacher, generous with her time .... she left a mark on me professionally, and you just CANNOT replace people like that. But nope, they lost her to another school.

Poor decision-making.

(Not saying a new $45M VDL isn't useful or cool... just... meh. It's important for other reasons, but not vet school.)
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I gotta agree with you.

I went to one of the smaller schools with relatively old facilities that are only just now coming "into date" over the last few years. I remember getting my first tour of the much larger, richer, more modern school I did my residency at and feeling like a bumpkin.

"You....you have an ICU just for horses?"
"Of course, doesn't your school?"
"....Um..."
😳:laugh:

However, our real gold was/is our amazing, intelligent, tenacious, and insanely dedicated faculty, not our surgery suites or clinical skills labs or whatever. They are what I really remember, and more than made up for any perceived defect in our school's material accessories.
 
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LetItSnow said:
Meh. Facilities are overrated. UMN loves to talk about their new facilities as they put them in place - the new equine hospital years ago, now the new small animal "GP practice within the hospital" (it's designed to represent a standalone GP practice), the new student surgery redesign, the new study area and "group learning" room, etc. And sure, when I took people on tours I pointed all that stuff out. And they're 'neat'.

But what do I remember? Certain instructors.

Do I remember when my class was cramped into a 1950s classroom for a month because of construction? Sure. But did it matter? Nope.

I mean yeah, you need adequate facilities. But you want to give a good education? Invest in your instructors.

I just heard that one of my favorite instructors is leaving UMN. Absolutely *INSANE* to lose her. Smart, tough, excellent teacher, generous with her time .... she left a mark on me professionally, and you just CANNOT replace people like that. But nope, they lost her to another school.

Poor decision-making.

(Not saying a new $45M VDL isn't useful or cool... just... meh. It's important for other reasons, but not vet school.)
Click to expand...
You should pm me who is leaving.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using SDN mobile
 
Bumping this thread in light of two new schools having received their letters of reasonable assurance during this past week: University of Arizona, and Long Island University (who actually just got their nod from the COE today). Both are also currently accepting applications for their first classes to start in fall 2020.

www.prnewswire.com

Long Island University Approved For College Of Veterinary Medicine

/PRNewswire/ -- Long Island University's College of Veterinary Medicine today announced it has received a Letter of Reasonable Assurance from the American...
www.prnewswire.com www.prnewswire.com
www.kyma.com

University of Arizona veterinary school gets the green light

The University of Arizona (UA) will open the first public veterinary college in Arizona, aiding a state-wide veterinary shortage.
www.kyma.com www.kyma.com

So that brings the total number of US vet schools to... what, 32? And at least U of A seems to be using the tired old rural vet "shortage" for justification of their existence. A "shortage" that, while it does exist, is actually the result of the interplay of several factors (debtload, poor lifestyle and salary in rural areas, health risks, lessened demand for services and ability for clients to pay, etc.) that unfortunately is not going to be solved simply by opening up more schools and pumping out more graduates. That same exact line of reasoning has been employed to start multiple new DVM programs over the last decade or two, and it's done basically zilch to help the issue.

Thoughts?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I highly disapprove of the Long Island University one. They had no business opening a vet school to start with. Their general university is in trouble financially. Very disappointed in COE. I know vet school is very difficult to get into but unless all the other economics fall into place to make us more like human med it's not sustainable. There needs to be a moratorium on accrediting more vet schools in the US until they can normalize things and make it stable.
 
Smacks of universities looking for a government-loan-subsidized gold mine. The long island one is particularly cringe-worthy -- they can't even try to claim to draw rural students who will return to those underserved areas after graduation. Where are all those new vets going to work? The unsaturated Manhattan metro area? 🙄

Thumbs down.
 
PippyPony said:
Smacks of universities looking for a government-loan-subsidized gold mine. The long island one is particularly cringe-worthy -- they can't even try to claim to draw rural students who will return to those underserved areas after graduation.

Thumbs down.
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Also the price they are asking is fairly expensive. For tuition, insurance, fees and books, it would be around 65k. Ya that seems ehh, but the cost of living here is ridiculous. Seriously feel like they are just out for the money.
 
asch97 said:
Also the price they are asking is fairly expensive. For tuition, insurance, fees and books, it would be around 65k. Ya that seems ehh, but the cost of living here is ridiculous. Seriously feel like they are just out for the money.
Click to expand...
Yep. For that cost, they should be providing people with an on-site teaching hospital -- including large animal facilities. Otherwise why the heck is it so expensive?
 
PippyPony said:
Yep. For that cost, they should be providing people with an on-site teaching hospital -- including large animal facilities. Otherwise why the heck is it so expensive?
Click to expand...
Private schools :shrug: haha
 
asch97 said:
Also the price they are asking is fairly expensive. For tuition, insurance, fees and books, it would be around 65k. Ya that seems ehh, but the cost of living here is ridiculous. Seriously feel like they are just out for the money.
Click to expand...

U of I puts cost of attendance at 72k. Now, do I take that out? Absolutely not. But I know people who do.
 
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