Non Trad. Engineer --> MD/PhD, Schools List, Feedback, etc.

[m2regen]

Hey there! So I have been working in engineering R&D for a large and well-known medical device company for a couple of years and am interested in applying to MD/PhD programs in engineering. Here is my profile:

1. (cGPA: 3.06) and (sGPA: 3.46), post-bacc GPA (all science): 3.84, grad GPA (MS, engineering field, in progress): 3.90
2. 38 (P14, V11, B13)
3. Institutions: Top 15 undergraduate , Top 15 graduate engineering
4. Research Experience:

• Academic: ~1.5 years, no publications, but abstracts/poster presentations accepted into competitive symposiums. 2 summers funded by HHMI
• Industry: 3 years (full-time, ongoing), no publications (for obvious reasons), collaborations with academic researchers.

5. Honors/Awards: Competitive research award at company.
6. Shadowing: ER (30 hours), Private practice, internal medicine (40 hours)
7. Volunteering Experience: Public health research internship (100 hours, summer), Health educator (1 year). I am also volunteering in an international clinical outreach program through my company.
8. Great research LORs
9.Other activities: RA (1 year), Was captain of a competitive team that placed in competitions (2 years)
10.CA resident
​

I know that the low GPA is a weakness; however, my combination of industry experience and research background makes me a strong fit for MD/PhD in engineering, since industry adoption is the end goal of most engineering research. I generally get a positive response when I speak with faculty about my background, but I am afraid I may get filtered out before a human reads my application due to my low GPA.

The schools with programs/researchers that match my specific background the best are (unfortunately?) quite competitive. Some examples: MIT, Case, UPitt, UW, USC, Wake Forest, OHSU. What are my chances, and can anyone recommend some realistic programs that I can apply to? I prefer the west coast, but want to apply broadly. I am not concerned about stipend or being fully funded; having the integrated educational experience is my main priority.

Since undergrad, I have shaped up academically (post-bacc classes, graduate GPAs as evidence). What are the best strategies for letting schools know that I am a serious student now? Any feedback/strategies on how I can improve my changes are appreciated. Thank you in advance.

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[piii]

So is your cGPA and sGPA including your post bacc?

Are you trying to do a PhD in engineering?

Typically, non SMP masters GPAs don't really matter, from what I've read.

 

[GrapesofRath]

MD/PhD evaluators are rather risk averse(even more so than MD only ones) largely because at many programs they are paying for you to go to their school. A 3.06/38 even with the post-bacc work, higher sGPA and masters work is the type of discordance that many wont be comfortable with.

It is possible you could generate interest from MD only programs. IF you complete an SMP and do well in it, you are very likely to generate interest in fact. But the average MD/PhD matriculant(note average, not those at top 20 programs) has a 3.8/35. Your research work is all well and good but in the pool of ridiculously competitive MD/Phd applications to some extent it's just par the course. While there are people who complete SMPs and go on to MD/PhD programs a) their UG credentials in many cases included a UG GPA higher than 3.06 UG GPA b) they are in a pretty solid minority that it's hard to recommend going that route just to try and bolster your MD/PhD credentials.

In many ways the best move going forward is to try and boost your service, both clinically and with the less fortunate populations, and focus more on MD only applications. With a broad list and well written app, you certainly have a chance at generating interest. Perhaps you can throw in some applications to non MSTP funded MD/PhD programs as well. But I would make a focus on MD only apps. If in fact you start getting shut out the fall of when you apply from MD only programs, I would start looking into SMP programs.

 

[m2regen]

So is your cGPA and sGPA including your post bacc?

Are you trying to do a PhD in engineering?

Typically, non SMP masters GPAs don't really matter, from what I've read.

Yes, that is my cGPA and sGPA including my post bacc. I re-took the science classes in which I got Bs in undergrad (my low cGPA is mostly from engineering classes). Since my job takes up most of my time, I can't take more than 1-2 classes per quarter.

Yes, I am applying for the PhD in engineering. Because I did poorly in my UG engineering, I am doing my M.S. in engineering to show that I can handle the higher level engineering courses.

 

[m2regen]

MD/PhD evaluators are rather risk averse(even more so than MD only ones) largely because at many programs they are paying for you to go to their school. A 3.06/38 even with the post-bacc work, higher sGPA and masters work is the type of discordance that many wont be comfortable with.

It is possible you could generate interest from MD only programs. IF you complete an SMP and do well in it, you are very likely to generate interest in fact. But the average MD/PhD matriculant(note average, not those at top 20 programs) has a 3.8/35. Your research work is all well and good but in the pool of ridiculously competitive MD/Phd applications to some extent it's just par the course. While there are people who complete SMPs and go on to MD/PhD programs a) their UG credentials in many cases included a UG GPA higher than 3.06 UG GPA b) they are in a pretty solid minority that it's hard to recommend going that route just to try and bolster your MD/PhD credentials.

In many ways the best move going forward is to try and boost your service, both clinically and with the less fortunate populations, and focus more on MD only applications. With a broad list and well written app, you certainly have a chance at generating interest. Perhaps you can throw in some applications to non MSTP funded MD/PhD programs as well. But I would make a focus on MD only apps. If in fact you start getting shut out the fall of when you apply from MD only programs, I would start looking into SMP programs.

Thank you for your advice! I am definitely going to apply heavily to non-MSTP programs. I didn't go the SMP route because I could not find programs in my area that can be done while working, and since my GPA has so many credits behind it, it doesn't make practical sense to leave my job and pay 20K-40K for the tiny boost. Since my strongest feature is my experience/grad work, and that becomes much less relevant in the MD application, I've been told that the MD route would be a more difficult case to make. Regardless, I will still apply broadly and hope that my upward trend and MCAT will get my looked at more closely. Thanks again!

 

[GrapesofRath]

Thank you for your advice! I am definitely going to apply heavily to non-MSTP programs. I didn't go the SMP route because I could not find programs in my area that can be done while working, and since my GPA has so many credits behind it, it doesn't make practical sense to leave my job and pay 20K-40K for the tiny boost. Since my strongest feature is my experience/grad work, and that becomes much less relevant in the MD application, I've been told that the MD route would be a more difficult case to make. Regardless, I will still apply broadly and hope that my upward trend and MCAT will get my looked at more closely. Thanks again!

Masters degrees(like SMPs) are calculated separately from your UG and post-bacc GPA. They aren't combined so its not an issue of an SMP having a "tiny boost" on your overall GPA. Likewise, masters in engineering degrees wont be combined with your overall GPA; and they arent given much weight anyway in medical school admission process. You are primarly judged by your GPA in non masters/ non grad school classes outside of an SMP.

The purpose of an SMP is you take classes with medical students and get graded against them on the same tests. If you do well on those tests(ie you consistently beat the medical school class average) there's no better indicator that you can handle medical school. A strong SMP showing can overcome all kinds of mediocre undergrad GPAs because of this in ways nothing else can. Retaking classes you got B's in or doing masters work isnt going to convince an MD evaluator you can handle medical school. Strong performance in post-bacc and undergrad level courses with a direct relation to medicine(ie biochem, immunology) etc will and even better than that is actually taking med school classes themselves.

Having said all this, you can likely still be a competitive MD only candidate if you apply wisely without an SMP. And having a research heavy application doesnt make you a worse fit for MD only at all; there are many MD only schools that appreciate such a background. Your GPA sure as hell doesnt make you a better fit for MD/PhD regardless of what EC's you have.

 

[m2regen]

Masters degrees(like SMPs) are calculated separately from your UG and post-bacc GPA. They aren't combined so its not an issue of an SMP having a "tiny boost" on your overall GPA. Likewise, masters in engineering degrees wont be combined with your overall GPA; and they arent given much weight anyway in medical school admission process. You are primarly judged by your GPA in non masters/ non grad school classes outside of an SMP.

The purpose of an SMP is you take classes with medical students and get graded against them on the same tests. If you do well on those tests(ie you consistently beat the medical school class average) there's no better indicator that you can handle medical school. A strong SMP showing can overcome all kinds of mediocre undergrad GPAs because of this in ways nothing else can. Retaking classes you got B's in or doing masters work isnt going to convince an MD evaluator you can handle medical school. Strong performance in post-bacc and undergrad level courses with a direct relation to medicine(ie biochem, immunology) etc will and even better than that is actually taking med school classes themselves.

Having said all this, you can likely still be a competitive MD only candidate if you apply wisely without an SMP. And having a research heavy application doesnt make you a worse fit for MD only at all; there are many MD only schools that appreciate such a background. Your GPA sure as hell doesnt make you a better fit for MD/PhD regardless of what EC's you have.

I definitely agree that the SMP will have a lot more weight than that I have done, but it was the best option I could find in my area. Do you know if there are SMP programs that working professionals can do? At this point, applying wisely seems to be the more realistic option. By applying wisely, do you mean picking the right schools, or are there other strategies that I can use while having a low GPA? Thanks in advance.

 

[GrapesofRath]

. Do you know if there are SMP programs that working professionals can do?

An SMP by and large is you taking at least 70% of an MS1 workload(and that doesnt include the grad classes/work you have to take that they dont often). Obviosuly there are no full time working professionals in a field like engineering who also happen to be medical students; that's not even close to feasible. Hence, it's not feasible to do an SMP and also be a full time working professional. If you do choose to do an SMP, it means that you are leaving your full time professional career to give it your all for medicine.