North Texas to offer MD Degree?

[DOinMS]

VT is not affiliated with VCOM. VCOM is a private school and leases their space in VT's tech park. VCOM goes to great lengths to appear as though it is an integral part of VT though. It uses their colors, their computer server, buys sports passes for their students along with use of facilities, pays for VT professors teaching at the med school, and several other things.

VT has been attempting for a number of years to break into the top 30 research institution rating. They have had rough going, primarily thanks to the miserly acts of our cracker general assembly. For several years, they have partnered with WFU who has a medical school but no engineering program, on medical research matters.

The Carilion Clinic has been evolving for several years and envisioned a clinic modeled similar to the Mayo Clinic or the Cleveland Clinic. Carilion is using VT land in Roanoke and the state approved about $60 million for construction of a medical school building. All degrees will be through VT.

I would say that VCOM almost deceptively creates a stronger relationship with VT than it actually has. I distinctly remember being told on two occasions during my interview that we were considered VT "graduate students." Turns out, nothing could be farther from the truth.

You have to admit that it is a crying shame that VT has to build an allopathic medical school 40 minutes away from its main campus when there is an osteopathic medical school in its backyard. I would venture to guess the reason begins and ends with VCOM administration.

One of Carilion's main reasons for opening the school is to address the physician shortage in SW VA. I hardly think 40 students/class in a 5-year, research-based program is going to help.

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[Flushot]

This is exactly how I feel about TCOM's reasoning in the implementation of the program. If you go on the pre-osteo TCOM forum we have this post:

Tons of great info from the current students - appreciate it immensely.

If anyone has not seen yet, it looks like there's a new website put up by TCOM regarding the possibility of adding an MD degree (apologies if it's been posted already)-
http://www.hsc.unt.edu/sites/StudyGroup/index.cfm

http://www.hsc.unt.edu/sites/StudyGroup/index.cfm?pageName=FAQ's

Their reasoning is similar but they also attempt to answer some tough questions in that FAQ.

 

[DOinMS]

This is exactly how I feel about TCOM's reasoning in the implementation of the program. If you go on the pre-osteo TCOM forum we have this post:



Their reasoning is similar but they also attempt to answer some tough questions in that FAQ.

Hmmmm. They even mention the possibility of a new dual degree (MD/DO).

 

[drusso]

FYI...



Impacts on the Osteopathic Program



Q: Would we keep the DO degree?



A: Absolutely. Regardless of the outcome of the study, the UNT System Regents, UNT System Chancellor and UNTHSC President are committed to maintaining, enhancing and cherishing the Texas College of Osteopathic Medicine’s DO program.



Q: Would there be a possibility of granting a dual DO/MD degree?



A: Initially, the study group will determine the benefits and liabilities of adding a parallel MD degree to our existing programs. If the Study Group and the Regents believe we should add a parallel MD degree, the UNTHSC would evaluate the most optimal way to add the MD opportunity. Offering a dual degree is one option, but this would be groundbreaking and may pose many operational challenges.



Q: Wouldn’t adding an MD degree betray our mission to promote osteopathy?



A: The Health Science Center’s strong commitment to osteopathic medical education would continue. Advancing osteopathic medical education is at our core and is non-negotiable. Any action taken now or in the future must be aimed at expanding, and not detracting from, our ability to fulfill that mission for the field of osteopathy. As the Texas College of Osteopathic Medicine approaches its 40th anniversary, we are mindful of the history and tradition of the school’s founders, and we understand the responsibility we have to respect and carry that forward. We are home to the National Osteopathic Research Center and have become recognized as a leader in the profession, and we intend to continue as such. In addition, the UNTHSC would continue to focus on developing primary care physicians for all current and any possible future medical education programs.



Q: How would UNTHSC make sure the DO program is preserved and not overshadowed by the MD program?



A: We are committed to the sustainability and strength of the Texas College of Osteopathic Medicine. TCOM is the founding school of the UNTHSC.. The only way we would consider adding an MD degree would be if it enhances the DO program for our students and for the health care needs of Texans.

 

[Flushot]

If TCOM follows through, it will be the third school to offer both degrees (MSU and UMDNJ), so do you feel that those schools did the right thing or are on the right path?

I don't believe that the AOA is dumb but rather power hungry. Just like in this thread:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=592566&page=1

From the link in the OP, we see that they're still stubbornly refusing to address the concern of the general practicing body about the degree's name. In fact, they're a little hostile to anyone proposing changes or even the slightest bit of dissent. This is why I feel the AOA is not going be very happy that yet another school, especially one with the top COMLEX scores and the national OMM research center, is going to do a dual degree.

But, it might be the wake up call they need. I'm sure I'm not alone when I feel that the AOA isn't really looking out for the profession but rather how much influence over the profession they can have. It's understandable why they want to keep things as they are but it's not helping.

 

[Flushot]

Well, I guess it would be in the same vein as the other two, but yeah, upon re-reading, you're right. This could be completely new.

I'm actually excited to see what comes of this, especially the AOA's response.

 

[Flushot]

Wait, when was this vote?

I did a search and got this:

http://blogs.do-online.org/aoapresident.php?itemid=18501

The comments are pretty revealing too. It seems that TCOM doesn't even have to go to the COCA for approval or the AOA. If there was a vote, I'm guessing it's just an early opinion and yes, I wouldn't be surprised if it was unanimous.

Thinking back, I first thought the implementation of the degree was a little strange but now I see it as a good think for the progression of both degrees. It won't be long before change comes outside the AOA's control and we can finally move forward.

 

[DOinMS]

Well, I guess it would be in the same vein as the other two, but yeah, upon re-reading, you're right. This could be completely new.

I'm actually excited to see what comes of this, especially the AOA's response.

If (a very big if) UNTHS-TCOM decides to implement a dual degree program I would think COCA would threaten to jerk the accreditation of the DO program. Then, if UNTHS continued to award a DO degree, COCA would probably file a lawsuit. So in the end, UNTHS would award a single MD degree. What does the school have to lose from this? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!!!! Look, the only (and I mean only) advantage to opening a DO school these days is that it can be a for-profit school. As the TCOM website clearly states, DO schools have difficulty finding partner hospitals for third and fourth year rotations. Couple that with the plight of osteopathic residency programs (and several other reasons), and you have a strong argument for going allopathic. If you have people who believe strongly in evidenced-based OMM, then that can be taught at an allopathic school – there’s no law against that. And as a going away present you could give the graduates an MS in OMM.

 

[Flushot]

If the COCA took aggressive legal action to TCOM's action, couldn't they continue forth with the LCME for accreditation? Like you said, they would lose nothing.

It seems from my understanding that this move is almost like a direct challenge to the AOA, COCA, and TOMA (the TX chapter, which also responded negatively). If they didn't look like power hungry maniacs before, they'll look like it even more if the degree plan gets approved and they lay down the assault.

 

[metalmd06]

Stop me if I'm wrong, but after reading that Q & A it's not at all apparent to me that UNT wants to offer a dual degree. It is mentioned as a ground breaking possibility, but I think their goal is to replicate models at UMDNJ and Michigan State with parallel degree programs. Did I miss somethiner here?

 

[DOinMS]

Stop me if I'm wrong, but after reading that Q & A it's not at all apparent to me that UNT wants to offer a dual degree. It is mentioned as a ground breaking possibility, but I think their goal is to replicate models at UMDNJ and Michigan State with parallel degree programs. Did I miss somethiner here?

I agree, but the possibility is on their radar and they are not ashamed to admit it.

 

[Flushot]

Well, that's what UMDNJ did. Are there any internal conflicts there between the separate DO and MD school?

I also kind of had this concern when I read the FAQ. All they promise is to "sustain and strengthen" or whatever the DO school's position. It's a two liner answer and it seems that the students currently at TCOM are being vocal about it, which they should be.

 

[Flushot]

There's no real conflict persay but when I asked about the UMDNJ MD schools during my interview I felt quite a bit of tension in the interviewer's answers. I guess they get being asked about the MD schools a lot.

What did you ask them, like how they view their relationship with the MD school?

 

[drusso]

I actually don't see any point opening a separate MD school. It's just another slap in the face to their DO school. The DO school will be relegated to the "little sister"position as more money and funds will be poured into the MD school. It's always the way it as evident recently from Touro's plight.
Which is why their "groundbreaking" idea should be pursued if they are really interested in progressing their DO program.

But you may be underestimating the affect that having an established DO program would have a on a new MD program under the same roof. There is no rule that says that an LCME-accredited program can not include OMM education or at least some version of it. The whole goal of osteopathic medicine was to reform the traditional "allopathic" education. Some of the MD students at Michigan State and UMDNJ take electives in OMM.

 

[Flushot]

I asked if they collaborated with the MD schools on projects and research and I was met with a stern "no". Basically, he said they were independent and did their own thing. Needless to say, I was waitlisted 2 weeks later.

I wouldn't say 'needless to say'; I doubt your question was a nail in the coffin or anything. It was legitimate question. It's not like you're upplaying or downplaying either school.