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NY Times: How Chaos at Chain Pharmacies Is Putting Patients at Risk

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Rouelle said:
That sounds incredible from a pharmacist point of view also. Virtually every time I work retail I get a patient call up and say something along the lines of “I called my doc for a refill and the receptionist/nurse/MA told me I had to call the pharmacy and get them to submit a refill request electronically.” Such a waste of everyone’s time and effort.
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I can't speak to everywhere, but before we did this I was getting 50+ refill requests per day (and this was when I had just started and didn't have that many patients). Probably 90% of them were inappropriate - meds that were supposed to be short term, patient needing an appointment, meds I had previously stopped. You know the drill.
 
VA Hopeful Dr said:
I can't speak to everywhere, but before we did this I was getting 50+ refill requests per day (and this was when I had just started and didn't have that many patients). Probably 90% of them were inappropriate - meds that were supposed to be short term, patient needing an appointment, meds I had previously stopped. You know the drill.
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Yep. I personally, as a patient, have received text notifications saying that my refill request had been denied when I had never made such a request. I definitely get it.
 
VA Hopeful Dr said:
I can't speak to everywhere, but before we did this I was getting 50+ refill requests per day (and this was when I had just started and didn't have that many patients). Probably 90% of them were inappropriate - meds that were supposed to be short term, patient needing an appointment, meds I had previously stopped. You know the drill.
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Yes - I appreciate you understanding that it is not our fault that this is happening.

One of the worst parts is when the customer comes back to us and is upset that we refilled a temporary med. there are simply too many people, and too many meds, for us to know what is what. However, there was a time (about 10 years ago) where we were staffed in a way where we could have a grip on these things.

Unfortunately, the way things run in a retail pharmacy has been entirely taken away from us and it has become an uncontrollable beast.
 
VA Hopeful Dr said:
I can't speak to everywhere, but before we did this I was getting 50+ refill requests per day (and this was when I had just started and didn't have that many patients). Probably 90% of them were inappropriate - meds that were supposed to be short term, patient needing an appointment, meds I had previously stopped. You know the drill.
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I don’t have any confidence in CVS....it is a poorly run company. It is like the executive team has not worked in a pharmacy...oh wait, they have not.

Look at how they promote their employees. They are all “yes” man. If things don’t work, it is because you are being “negative”. That is how Merlo does it. That is how all of his princelings do it.
 
mentos said:
You get to sit in a hospital right? Thousands of pharmacists would trade retail for that.
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I was specifically talking about night shift. Yes, you do get to sit at a hospital job.
 
What will happen eventually is chains will provide “adequate” staffing at the expanse of pharmacist salary. Hire pharmacist for $40 instead of $60 and provide one extra tech making $10 an hour. Still saving $10 😱

This is the future. We all know this but some folks just refuse to acknowledge it.
 
Chrish said:
What will happen eventually is chains will provide “adequate” staffing at the expanse of pharmacist salary. Hire pharmacist for $40 instead of $60 and provide one extra tech making $10 an hour. Still saving $10 😱

This is the future. We all know this but some folks just refuse to acknowledge it.
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Yeah I wonder why they don't do it now.
 
Chrish said:
What will happen eventually is chains will provide “adequate” staffing at the expanse of pharmacist salary. Hire pharmacist for $40 instead of $60 and provide one extra tech making $10 an hour. Still saving $10 😱

This is the future. We all know this but some folks just refuse to acknowledge it.
Click to expand...

Not sure I agree 100%, although I do respect this point of view and understand it is a possibility. if I ever see that happening I will jump ship.

The smart ones will have secured some sort of backup and will leave pharmacy. This will only increase the incompetence within the pharmacy profession.
 
JustFillIt said:
Reading this horse**** was disgusting. It is a classic example of how we, in this country, use twisted language to deceptively describe a controversial topic.

In this article, “measurement = improvement.” Let’s not call it metrics to evaluate productivity and weed out those who don’t fall in line. Let’s call it a “measurement in order to find out how we can improve, and improve patient safety” - this sounds nice right?

I actually see this response as directed more toward the staff than the general public. They are sternly saying to their workers - “don’t expect things to change”
Click to expand...

On the other hand, reading the NY times article was disgusting for me. I learned absolutely nothing.

It appeals only to the validation-seekers from our very own profession.

99% of the profession already spews the same desperation online

Very well-researched by a non-pharmacist writer, but nothing new for us.

Just more "poor pharmacist" sentiments.

No wonder other professions look down on pharmacy. We're one of the only professions where our very own peers look down on each other.

I do think increased transparency is good, though. Keeps everyone honest.

I hope the scrutiny continues. Everyone will have to level up then.

Sent from my SM-N975U using SDN mobile
 
This article was actually on the front page of the Saturday edition.


scan.jpg
 
Mr. Corporate Pharmacist said:
On the other hand, reading the NY times article was disgusting for me. I learned absolutely nothing.

It appeals only to the validation-seekers from our very own profession.

99% of the profession already spews the same desperation online

Very well-researched by a non-pharmacist writer, but nothing new for us.

Just more "poor pharmacist" sentiments.

No wonder other professions look down on pharmacy. We're one of the only professions where our very own peers look down on each other.

I do think increased transparency is good, though. Keeps everyone honest.

I hope the scrutiny continues. Everyone will have to level up then.

Sent from my SM-N975U using SDN mobile
Click to expand...
Well most of us did not learn anything new,for we already know how horrible the working conditions are . I am sure though the public will learn a lot !
 
Mr. Corporate Pharmacist said:
On the other hand, reading the NY times article was disgusting for me. I learned absolutely nothing.

It appeals only to the validation-seekers from our very own profession.

99% of the profession already spews the same desperation online

Very well-researched by a non-pharmacist writer, but nothing new for us.

Just more "poor pharmacist" sentiments.

No wonder other professions look down on pharmacy. We're one of the only professions where our very own peers look down on each other.

I do think increased transparency is good, though. Keeps everyone honest.

I hope the scrutiny continues. Everyone will have to level up then.

Sent from my SM-N975U using SDN mobile
Click to expand...
ancienbon said:
Well most of us did not learn anything new,for we already know how horrible the working conditions are . I am sure though the public will learn a lot !
Click to expand...

“Mr. Corporate Pharmacist” apparently wants to continue to extend the corporate bullying mechanism, telling us, this is “validation- seeking” “nothing new”. Pharmacists are finally finding their voices and will make the public aware of the situation corporate writes off as “nothing new.”

you’re correct pointing out that in our profession “peers look down on each other” that is because the our own colleagues who end up in corporate almost completely loose their “professional altruism” and “respect” to their fellow RPH. I have seen in multiple places that Pharmacists did not have the type of influence and voice they should have even compared to pharmacy technicians.
This was the case because our own peers enabled corporate and have no respect.

I have seen some of these very people fall out of grace and now work under similar working conditions.
 
Xarelto-10 said:
“Mr. Corporate Pharmacist” apparently wants to continue to extend the corporate bullying mechanism, telling us, this is “validation- seeking” “nothing new”. Pharmacists are finally finding their voices and will make the public aware of the situation corporate writes off as “nothing new.”

you’re correct pointing out that in our profession “peers look down on each other” that is because the our own colleagues who end up in corporate almost completely loose their “professional altruism” and “respect” to their fellow RPH. I have seen in multiple places that Pharmacists did not have the type of influence and voice they should have even compared to pharmacy technicians.
This was the case because our own peers enabled corporate and have no respect.

I have seen some of these very people fall out of grace and now work under similar working conditions.
Click to expand...
Those corporate guys sold their soul to the devil!
 
Mr. Corporate Pharmacist said:
On the other hand, reading the NY times article was disgusting for me. I learned absolutely nothing.

It appeals only to the validation-seekers from our very own profession.

99% of the profession already spews the same desperation online

Very well-researched by a non-pharmacist writer, but nothing new for us.

Just more "poor pharmacist" sentiments.

No wonder other professions look down on pharmacy. We're one of the only professions where our very own peers look down on each other.

I do think increased transparency is good, though. Keeps everyone honest.

I hope the scrutiny continues. Everyone will have to level up then.

Sent from my SM-N975U using SDN mobile
Click to expand...
I guess you missed the parts about patients getting the wrong medication and suffering from the errors. Try to reread the article.
I thought it was a good summary of the problems in retail pharmacy. I don't see a change coming soon. I laughed at how some bops suggested pharmacists quit.
The real reason other profession look down on pharmacy is because we don't stand up for ourselves. We just keep getting bullied.
 
owlegrad said:
I am pretty sure that is human nature and not exclusive to pharmacy at all.
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Have you seen how strong nurse's unions are? They get whatever they want and if they don't then they fight for it.
 
Momus said:
Merlo answered without answering anything at all. Deny deny deny.
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Typical response. I went to one of his rah rah speeches once, a student asked him what he's going to do about the pharmacist job market and he told everyone not to worry there's plenty of jobs for everyone.
 
mentos said:
Typical response. I went to one of his rah rah speeches once, a student asked him what he's going to do about the pharmacist job market and he told everyone not to worry there's plenty of jobs for everyone.
Click to expand...
The students who expect chain pharmacy leadership to look out for students' interest instead of their own are dumb enough to deserve exactly what will happen to them.
 
mentos said:
Typical response. I went to one of his rah rah speeches once, a student asked him what he's going to do about the pharmacist job market and he told everyone not to worry there's plenty of jobs for everyone.
Click to expand...
What type of question was that? They expect the ceo of cvs to do something for the pharmacist job market! A very naive student!
 
mentos said:
Have you seen how strong nurse's unions are? They get whatever they want and if they don't then they fight for it.
Click to expand...

Right, but that doesn’t mean that nurses individually don’t treat each other poorly or talk bad about each other. Collectively they just organize better. Plus they have the numbers obviously.
 
I don't know why you guys think this article is a big deal. Go look at the comments section. Who is being attacked? Chain pharmacies and capitalism. The chains are going to operate however they operate and you're going to stand there and like it. Without action from the local level, this will be all for nothing. State boards are not to be trusted.
 
BenJammin said:
I don't know why you guys think this article is a big deal. Go look at the comments section. Who is being attacked? Chain pharmacies and capitalism. The chains are going to operate however they operate and you're going to stand there and like it. Without action from the local level, this will be all for nothing. State boards are not to be trusted.
Click to expand...

I wish the comments section was not disabled in the CVS response.

Considering the fact that the comments section is open on the NYT article, and closed on the CVS response - says a lot.

One is shaping opinion, the other is controlling opinion. The management who put that response together is a bunch of a**holes.
 
JustFillIt said:
Reading this horse**** was disgusting. It is a classic example of how we, in this country, use twisted language to deceptively describe a controversial topic.

In this article, “measurement = improvement.” Let’s not call it metrics to evaluate productivity and weed out those who don’t fall in line. Let’s call it a “measurement in order to find out how we can improve, and improve patient safety” - this sounds nice right?

I actually see this response as directed more toward the staff than the general public. They are sternly saying to their workers - “don’t expect things to change”
Click to expand...

Exactly what I was thinking. They talk about automation, and increasing Pharm tech ratio. They will lay off more RPH’s by then.
 
owlegrad said:
Right, but that doesn’t mean that nurses individually don’t treat each other poorly or talk bad about each other. Collectively they just organize better. Plus they have the numbers obviously.
Click to expand...
I will add to this. Even doctors look down on other doctors. Every doctor looks down on family medicine doctors. Physicians are also better collectively organizing and have the numbers too.
 
ancienbon said:
Well most of us did not learn anything new,for we already know how horrible the working conditions are . I am sure though the public will learn a lot !
Click to expand...
The public sees what is relevant to them. I fear that all pharmacists will be lumped into this category of overworked, dangerous dispenser.

We represent the institutions we work for.


Sent from my SM-N975U using SDN mobile
 
Xarelto-10 said:
“Mr. Corporate Pharmacist” apparently wants to continue to extend the corporate bullying mechanism, telling us, this is “validation- seeking” “nothing new”. Pharmacists are finally finding their voices and will make the public aware of the situation corporate writes off as “nothing new.”

you’re correct pointing out that in our profession “peers look down on each other” that is because the our own colleagues who end up in corporate almost completely loose their “professional altruism” and “respect” to their fellow RPH. I have seen in multiple places that Pharmacists did not have the type of influence and voice they should have even compared to pharmacy technicians.
This was the case because our own peers enabled corporate and have no respect.

I have seen some of these very people fall out of grace and now work under similar working conditions.
Click to expand...
Incorrect. The article writer is not seeking validation. But it appeals to validation seekers in our profession. The article was not meant for pharmacists, but struck a nerve with many.

I am not trying to extend anything. I think the article bringing increased transparency and scrutiny to the profession is good. But the article's popularity is overrated.

Reading the article had the same effect on me when I read about Amazon having overly demanding working conditions or when I flip on the TV and hear the "news." It's unfortunate, but not real news. This is my opinion.

Every company has good and bad managers that contribute to the problem. That is the root cause.

When you talk about the voice of the profession, I don't understand how the article is anything different than the thousands of voices already online. Anyone remotely concerned can learn what is going on in a heartbeat.

The profession has a strong voice (99% of pharmacists think of retail the same way), just no coordinated efforts about it.

Sent from my SM-N975U using SDN mobile
 
johnpharm01 said:
I guess you missed the parts about patients getting the wrong medication and suffering from the errors. Try to reread the article.
I thought it was a good summary of the problems in retail pharmacy. I don't see a change coming soon. I laughed at how some bops suggested pharmacists quit.
The real reason other profession look down on pharmacy is because we don't stand up for ourselves. We just keep getting bullied.
Click to expand...

The purpose is pretty clear, and again the message for the public is good.

I didn't miss those parts, but I can see where your inference came from.

I think other professions look down on pharmacy not because our profession complains, but because "personal responsibility" for anything seems absent for many pharmacists.

Whether its the care for the patient, the working conditions, or the subsequent attitude and actions that we convey to other professionals. Many pharmacists are very quick to blame others and their circumstances for any shortcomings.

Other professions don't know enough to understand anything about corporate "bullying." Maybe that will change when they read the article.

Sent from my SM-N975U using SDN mobile
 
owlegrad said:
I am pretty sure that is human nature and not exclusive to pharmacy at all.
Click to expand...

Not as much as the dissonance between "clinical" and "retail" pharmacy.

Elitist mentality is everywhere, but it literally divides our profession.

Sent from my SM-N975U using SDN mobile
 
Pharmacy schools always talk about the importance of patient care but they never stand up to the chains.
 
Mr. Corporate Pharmacist said:
Not as much as the dissonance between "clinical" and "retail" pharmacy.

Elitist mentality is everywhere, but it literally divides our profession.

Sent from my SM-N975U using SDN mobile
Click to expand...

How many professions have you been a part of that you can speak with authority that the ‘dissonance’ is greatest in pharmacy? Perception bias is my guess.
 
This article educates public about the unsafe work conditions some pharmacies operate under. I mean you would be stupid not to figure it out yourself when you have to hold 30 minutes to speak to pharmacist every time you call CVS.

Of course we as pharmacists would learn nothing new. Our situation has been dump for a while. This is for general public; a piece very well-researched by non-pharmacy person.
 
You guys need to go and read rad-onc and pathology forums.. They are also in a dump due to massive residency expansions. Every other thread is on doom and gloom. So, pharmacy isn't the only "divided" profession.
 
Chrish said:
This article educates public about the unsafe work conditions some pharmacies operate under. I mean you would be stupid not to figure it out yourself when you have to hold 30 minutes to speak to pharmacist every time you call CVS.

Of course we as pharmacists would learn nothing new. Our situation has been dump for a while. This is for general public; a piece very well-researched by non-pharmacy person.
Click to expand...

Don't underestimate the stupidity of the general public. People still say stuff like "go to the pharmacy to ring out, they do nothing all day".
 
owlegrad said:
How many professions have you been a part of that you can speak with authority that the ‘dissonance’ is greatest in pharmacy? Perception bias is my guess.
Click to expand...

You're right. I'm speculating, and it's completely anecdotal.

But when I speak with my network of physicians, PAs, nurses, PTs, optometrists, they don't talk of an intraprofessional rift.

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Mr. Corporate Pharmacist said:
You're right. I'm speculating, and it's completely anecdotal.

But when I speak with my network of physicians, PAs, nurses, PTs, optometrists, they don't talk of an intraprofessional rift.

Sent from my SM-N975U using SDN mobile
Click to expand...

Try listening to an ED nurse give report to a floor nurse for an admission.
 
projektreverb said:
Except patients don’t care until it’s them. Someone has said it on this board and I’ll say it again: nothing will change until some beautiful/picture perfect, 20 something year old media friendly lady dies because of it. Then things will change.
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Ha that was me. And yes, only when a beautiful young girl in the prime of her life dies will it make a difference. Grandma who is 85 and one cold away from death doesn't count.
 
IDEA:
Why don't pharmacists in all 50 states submit anonymous messages to state BOPs, and to other organizations like news outlets, etc??

Everyone's always talking about how there's no unions, no pharmacists banding together to stand up for our working conditions.
 
Heroic Combo said:
IDEA:
Why don't pharmacists in all 50 states submit anonymous messages to state BOPs, and to other organizations like news outlets, etc??

Everyone's always talking about how there's no unions, no pharmacists banding together to stand up for our working conditions.
Click to expand...

In my opinion and perhaps shared by many of our colleagues too, we lack strong professional organizations that speak on our behalf. The ones in existence are promoting the interests of the corporations. At best it’s going to add our responsibilities without additional resources.

So, I agree that we need to find a way to make our voices heard one way or another.
 
The one item we seem to overlook is that retail pharmacy is a dinosaur and with it extinction.Dont believe me?Then look at Wall Street.Thats where the real story is.CVS stock is going nowhere.Walgreens has lost almost half of its value.Rite Aid is abysmal and is primed for a takeover which almost occurred with Albertsons. Rx errors are a cost of doing business.It is cheaper to accept some errors then to hire extra help.It is wrong to look at your job as a employee, you need to look at it like an investor.Thats what CVS is concerned about.
 
sfachine said:
The one item we seem to overlook is that retail pharmacy is a dinosaur and with it extinction.Dont believe me?Then look at Wall Street.Thats where the real story is.CVS stock is going nowhere.Walgreens has lost almost half of its value.Rite Aid is abysmal and is primed for a takeover which almost occurred with Albertsons. Rx errors are a cost of doing business.It is cheaper to accept some errors then to hire extra help.It is wrong to look at your job as a employee, you need to look at it like an investor.Thats what CVS is concerned about.
Click to expand...

Retail pharmacy as a stand alone business is dead. Retail pharmacy as part of a vertically integrated corporate behemoth, on the other hand...very viable.
 
WVUPharm2007 said:
Retail pharmacy as a stand alone business is dead. Retail pharmacy as part of a vertically integrated corporate behemoth, on the other hand...very viable.
Click to expand...
I hope so but that remains to be seen especially with tech advances such as telemedicine and same day delivery of meds.Either way there is going to be a huge contraction in retail.We are seeing the beginning of it now.
 
Xarelto-10 said:
In my opinion and perhaps shared by many of our colleagues too, we lack strong professional organizations that speak on our behalf. The ones in existence are promoting the interests of the corporations. At best it’s going to add our responsibilities without additional resources.

So, I agree that we need to find a way to make our voices heard one way or another.
Click to expand...

It seems like a no-brainer to me! Anonymous reporting about this stuff WILL lead to some extent of publicity. I encourage anyone who wishes to make these complaints to their state.. seriously. If all it takes is a handful of these complaints to generate an article that makes the front page of the NYT then lets get to it!!
 
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