NYU vs Harvard vs WashU

[ladeeda99]

Hey guys! So thankful to have these options and luckily, the financial aid packages at all schools are similar enough for that not to be a huge consideration. For reference, Harvard would be about $6k a year in tuition/fees, NYU $4k/yr (fees), and WashU is offering full COA. I am not sure what specialty I want to pursue, but have interests in Derm, ENT, and peds.

NYU
Pros:
- Diverse patient population (+Bellevue)
- Dean Rivera
- Subsidized housing
- Have a brother In NYC (support)
- Have met a few current students and really liked them all

Cons
- From the south so NYC seems a bit intimidating and overwhelming
- COL is crazy (even with subsidized housing lol)
- AOA with preclinical internal ranking
- Graded clerkships from what I can tell
- Brand new curriculum

Harvard Pathways
Pros:
- Boston seems like a good "middle ground" city
- Start clerkships earlier (Oct. vs Jan)
- 16 different health centers to train in
- No AOA and P/F pre-clinical and core clerkships

Cons:
- COL also very high
- No in-person second look so less familiar with students/culture
- From what I understand, quizzes/assessments every class and most classes mandatory
- No lectures and just case-based learning?

WashU
Pros:
- Had a great second look experience there (great people)
- Mixture of lecture and case-based learning rather than primarily case-based
- Full COL scholarships vs just tuition
- Quieter area with better housing options

Cons:
- St. Louis has a reputation for being kinda dangerous; also not a lot to do
- Dissection
- Lower ranking
- Curriculum is also relatively new and described as "disorganized" by one current student

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[throwaway01564]

TBH I think it depends on how debt averse you are. I'd immediately rule out NYU since you have Harvard at a similar cost. Based on student budgets, at Harvard you'd end up ~120k in debt while WashU would obviously be free. TBH if you're doing one of those high-paying specialties I personally might bite the bullet and go to Harvard. But ultimately if you value free med school more the lower ranking isn't really much of an issue for WashU since it's still T10.

 

[Orims]

Just wanna say that we do have some lectures at HMS, it's not all flipped classroom

 

[Dogruffle01]

Full Disclosure.. I'm going to matriculate to Harvard but........

I never have seen the appeal of starting clinical's early. A 1 year preclinical doesn't impress me because it just means I lose the only summer I would get in medical school, and I will have to spend 2 extra weeks in a rotation that I possible won't like ( 10 weeks seems sufficient to see if you like a specialty 12 weeks seems like overkill).

I dislike the mandatory case-based learning and daily assessments as well. The Harvard system doesn't really seem conducive for individual learning styles and free time outside of class ( Yes mandatory classes are "only" 4 hours, but students say they study 2-3 hours for the next day).

With all that being said... Its Harvard
The name + P/F no ranking gives you the highest chance to match into whatever specialty you want. At the end of the day, becoming the great doctor you want to be is the purpose of medical school and Harvard all but guarantees this ( with a couple exceptions here and there).

Side note: I went to the WashU second look and it was a beautiful school and had a wonderful curriculum. The area the school is in isn't particularly dangerous and I will def be doing a Sub-I there.

If your heart is set on prestige or Derm ---> Harvard
If you care about cost and flexibility during medical school --> WashU

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

Just a thought. Why is the admissions dean a pro? It’s like saying I want to buy that car because I love the salesperson…

 

[ladeeda99]

Just a thought. Why is the admissions dean a pro? It’s like saying I want to buy that car because I love the salesperson…

He's just the nicest guy who I've been told by current students is an advocate for them and serves as a great mentor/advisor during any stage of med school. But that is a good point lol! It could just be for show and/or I could never interact with him again once I matriculate

I also like to think he may be representative of faculty as a whole at NYU but that is likely very naive thinking...

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

He's just the nicest guy who I've been told by current students is an advocate for them and serves as a great mentor/advisor during any stage of med school. But that is a good point lol! It could just be for show and/or I could never interact with him again once I matriculate

I also like to think he may be representative of faculty as a whole at NYU but that is likely very naive thinking...

Well, you are clearly not naive.

 

[ladeeda99]

Full Disclosure.. I'm going to matriculate to Harvard but........

I never have seen the appeal of starting clinical's early. A 1 year preclinical doesn't impress me because it just means I lose the only summer I would get in medical school, and I will have to spend 2 extra weeks in a rotation that I possible won't like ( 10 weeks seems sufficient to see if you like a specialty 12 weeks seems like overkill).

I dislike the mandatory case-based learning and daily assessments as well. The Harvard system doesn't really seem conducive for individual learning styles and free time outside of class ( Yes mandatory classes are "only" 4 hours, but students say they study 2-3 hours for the next day).

With all that being said... Its Harvard
The name + P/F no ranking gives you the highest chance to match into whatever specialty you want. At the end of the day, becoming the great doctor you want to be is the purpose of medical school and Harvard all but guarantees this ( with a couple exceptions here and there).

Side note: I went to the WashU second look and it was a beautiful school and had a wonderful curriculum. The area the school is in isn't particularly dangerous and I will def be doing a Sub-I there.

If your heart is set on prestige or Derm ---> Harvard
If you care about cost and flexibility during medical school --> WashU

Thanks for your input. I definitely prefer the flexibility of WashU but not sure if over the lower-stress grading that Harvard offers. Do you happen to know anything about anatomy labs at Harvard? I was told there were no use of cadavers?

 

[mangowolf]

Full Disclosure.. I'm going to matriculate to Harvard but........

I never have seen the appeal of starting clinical's early. A 1 year preclinical doesn't impress me because it just means I lose the only summer I would get in medical school, and I will have to spend 2 extra weeks in a rotation that I possible won't like ( 10 weeks seems sufficient to see if you like a specialty 12 weeks seems like overkill).

I dislike the mandatory case-based learning and daily assessments as well. The Harvard system doesn't really seem conducive for individual learning styles and free time outside of class ( Yes mandatory classes are "only" 4 hours, but students say they study 2-3 hours for the next day).

With all that being said... Its Harvard
The name + P/F no ranking gives you the highest chance to match into whatever specialty you want. At the end of the day, becoming the great doctor you want to be is the purpose of medical school and Harvard all but guarantees this ( with a couple exceptions here and there).

Side note: I went to the WashU second look and it was a beautiful school and had a wonderful curriculum. The area the school is in isn't particularly dangerous and I will def be doing a Sub-I there.

If your heart is set on prestige or Derm ---> Harvard
If you care about cost and flexibility during medical school --> WashU

I agree w dogruffle. The HMS curriculum seems a little bit conducive to rushing you/leading to burn out/many people had complaints about not being able to learn anatomy in that one year. But obviously the benefits of P/F clinical and the name brand are large.

To offer another perspective on the lack of grading at HMS, I was very surprised at their revisit talking to an M4 who did not match into their top 3 in a non competitive specialty and stated that many of their friends also did not match to their top 3. For some reason I had some illusion that almost everyone at HMS matched to their top 3 but this is not the case. Since HMS has no grades it all became a rat race about who could rack up the most research during a PhD or a 5th year, and since HMS’s funding for a fifth year is pretty ****ty, this M4 felt that at HMS, matching to your top 3 was very segregated by whether or not a gap year was taken. A quite large % of HMS students also take a fifth year, too. So just keep in mind that you may feel compelled to take that extra year to rack up research to stand out among your classmates, depending on what your specialty and residency of choice is. Now, this was just one students opinion and personally I’d still go for the school with P/F clinical. But there’s always going to be a slight trade off.

 

[mangowolf]

Thanks for your input. I definitely prefer the flexibility of WashU but not sure if over the lower-stress grading that Harvard offers. Do you happen to know anything about anatomy labs at Harvard? I was told there were no use of cadavers?

Idk about no use of cadavers, but basically there is universal acknowledgement that anatomy is taught extremely badly at HMS which could be a con if you’re interested in surgery. At revisit a bunch of the med students said that even the attendings at Mass Gen have a running joke about how HMS students don’t know anything about anatomy when they start their surgery rotations. It’s because of the compressed 1 year preclinical that they don’t learn anatomy in enough detail (just basically get a broad overview). Some students argued that they have a slightly longer surgery rotation which counterbalances the bad anatomy curriculum (I don’t buy this, tbh)

 

[Orims]

Thanks for your input. I definitely prefer the flexibility of WashU but not sure if over the lower-stress grading that Harvard offers. Do you happen to know anything about anatomy labs at Harvard? I was told there were no use of cadavers?

We do use donated bodies when learning anatomy! I will say, though, that the anatomy curriculum in Pathways is a little rushed and not a traditional anatamomy class you would expect at other medical schools.

 

[ladeeda99]

We do use donated bodies when learning anatomy! I will say, though, that the anatomy curriculum in Pathways is a little rushed and not a traditional anatamomy class you would expect at other medical schools.

Thanks for the info! Did you personally enjoy the shortened preclerkships and non-traditional teaching styles? Also, do you happen to know if Pathways students are given dedicated STEP study time?

 

[290189]

Just a thought. Why is the admissions dean a pro? It’s like saying I want to buy that car because I love the salesperson…

he also spends so much time with prospective students I doubt he will be there for you after you matriculate

 

[Orims]

Thanks for the info! Did you personally enjoy the shortened preclerkships and non-traditional teaching styles? Also, do you happen to know if Pathways students are given dedicated STEP study time?

I personally loved being able to see patients basically from our first month and joining the wards in by October of our 2nd year. I learn better by discussing cases and by doing, rather than sitting in lecture halls 8 hours a day, so the curriculum definitely catered my learning style. We do get dedicated Step 1 and 2 study time.

 

[crimson-cat]

Anatomy at HMS is definitely a joke compared to most peer institutions. That being said, they've created a lot of ways for surgery-bound folks to get around this. During first-year there's opportunity to participate in pro-sections and spend extra time in the anatomy lab (easily have ~20 hours/week of time for extra-curricular stuff first year). During clinical year surgeons don't expect you to learn much, and you'll learn a ton of pertinent anatomy during the rotation. During 3rd/4th year there's options for an intensive anatomy course with surgery on cadavers.

You'll match well from any of the above, though I would say HMS matches derm particularly well. If you're optimizing for clinical training and happiness/fit, I'd go WashU. If you're optimizing for prestige and non-clinical opportunities, I'd go HMS

 

[magic2026]

I have heard that WashU is having some issues with their curriculum, particularly with students not being prepared for Step and having to push it back. Heard this from a current student this cycle, but it is not something they are advertising since they plan to fix the gaps in learning they have. Just something that went into my decision making, so I wanted you to have that info too.

 

[ladeeda99]

I have heard that WashU is having some issues with their curriculum, particularly with students not being prepared for Step and having to push it back. Heard this from a current student this cycle, but it is not something they are advertising since they plan to fix the gaps in learning they have. Just something that went into my decision making, so I wanted you to have that info too.

Were there any other issues the student mentioned (and did it seem like a common issue based on how they talked about it)? I also wonder if its not really going to be an issue anymore since Step 1 is now P/F

 

[ladeeda99]

Anatomy at HMS is definitely a joke compared to most peer institutions. That being said, they've created a lot of ways for surgery-bound folks to get around this. During first-year there's opportunity to participate in pro-sections and spend extra time in the anatomy lab (easily have ~20 hours/week of time for extra-curricular stuff first year). During clinical year surgeons don't expect you to learn much, and you'll learn a ton of pertinent anatomy during the rotation. During 3rd/4th year there's options for an intensive anatomy course with surgery on cadavers.

You'll match well from any of the above, though I would say HMS matches derm particularly well. If you're optimizing for clinical training and happiness/fit, I'd go WashU. If you're optimizing for prestige and non-clinical opportunities, I'd go HMS

Just curious, do you just mention that WashU would optimize happiness/fit since I had a good second look experience there or do you have any more info or insight into WashU culture vs Harvard culture?