Official 2010 Rank List Help Thread

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UCSD
Wake Forest
Loma Linda
Emory
Mayo - Jacksonville
UAB
University of Maryland
Cleveland Clinic
UT - Houston
UT - San Antonio
University of Southern California
Cedars Sinai
George Washington
UNC - Chapel Hill
Duke
University of Florida - Gainesville
UVA

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Bottom line, everyone, take my advice lightly, most of them are only words of mouth, my previous experience and research. Remember this was one year ago! The best advice about a program will be from the current residents at that particular program. If you are undecided about your top 5, I would call up residents at those program and talk to them.

Not trying to call anyone out specifically. You are a great poster with a solid reputation on SDN. I am only pointing out to others that their opinion of a program is probably more informed and pertinent to their rank list than the opinion of an internet stranger who has sometimes third or fourth hand info on the programs and may actually not know the real info on the particular programs. It has been interesting over the years to watch how program reputations can be built up or torn down so quickly in the information age.
As we all know, each person's needs are different and one person's top program may be dead last for another person based on a variety of factors. There are really only a small percentage of programs that should really be avoided. Other than those, I think the appeal of the rest of the programs will vary by the individual.
I know that this thread is only to get advice that will probably have no real impact on people's rank lists, but I just found it odd that you had so much info on so many programs and never declined to give an opinion (as some others admitted that they didn't know much about some of the listed programs and stated as such in their advice). It sounds as if you have done your homework and have a lot of good information on a lot of programs and I commend you for sharing it with the students. I am only urging them to be cautious of groupthink and basing their rank list on what others think are the best program for them.
In addition, if you are going to chime in on so many programs, it may benefit the students to let them know if your list is based on first hand knowledge or opinions heard elsewhere. I know that the students here appreciate your input on this topic and I am definitely not trying to squelch that.
 
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Not trying to call anyone out specifically. You are a great poster with a solid reputation on SDN. I am only pointing out to others that their opinion of a program is probably more informed and pertinent to their rank list than the opinion of an internet stranger who has sometimes third or fourth hand info on the programs and may actually not know the real info on the particular programs. It has been interesting over the years to watch how program reputations can be built up or torn down so quickly in the information age.
As we all know, each person's needs are different and one person's top program may be dead last for another person based on a variety of factors. There are really only a small percentage of programs that should really be avoided. Other than those, I think the appeal of the rest of the programs will vary by the individual.
I know that this thread is only to get advice that will probably have no real impact on people's rank lists, but I just found it odd that you had so much info on so many programs and never declined to give an opinion (as some others admitted that they didn't know much about some of the listed programs and stated as such in their advice). It sounds as if you have done your homework and have a lot of good information on a lot of programs and I commend you for sharing it with the students. I am only urging them to be cautious of groupthink and basing their rank list on what others think are the best program for them.
In addition, if you are going to chime in on so many programs, it may benefit the students to let them know if your list is based on first hand knowledge or opinions heard elsewhere. I know that the students here appreciate your input on this topic and I am definitely not trying to squelch that.

I agree with you 100% Dr. GB. :thumbup:

Some of the information that I obtained may be too private to share publicly... i.e. disgruntled residents got fired or quit a particular program. I have been PM-ing my reasoning to those who requested more info. But I also watered down my opinion and PMs (respecting the privacy of those who I obtained the information). :) Everyone, take my opinion SUBJECTIVELY. Only you can decide your list.
 
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UCSD
Wake Forest
Loma Linda
Emory
Mayo - Jacksonville
UAB
University of Maryland
Cleveland Clinic
UT - Houston
UT - San Antonio
University of Southern California
Cedars Sinai
George Washington
UNC - Chapel Hill
Duke
University of Florida - Gainesville
UVA

I don't know anything about most of those, but within CA I would rank them

UCSD (I am a resident here)
Cedars
USC
Loma Linda
 
Here are a couple pairs that are really close in my eyes. I'm wondering what people's thoughts are on whether one is better than the other, or if they really are too close to call.
(Disregard location as a factor)

Columbia vs Hopkins
Cornell vs Penn
Temple vs Maryland
Downstate vs Stony Brook
 
Here are a couple pairs that are really close in my eyes. I'm wondering what people's thoughts are on whether one is better than the other, or if they really are too close to call.
(Disregard location as a factor)

Columbia vs Hopkins
Cornell vs Penn
Temple vs Maryland
Downstate vs Stony Brook

I interviewed at the first 6 mentioned here, and to answer your question, would say Hopkins, Penn, Maryland, and I don't know enough about Downstate or Stony Brook to compare.

Personally, I think the main matchup is:

Columbia vs Hopkins vs Penn

and I think Cornell is a little under them in terms of "prestige." I don't think your job/fellowship offers will differ greatly coming from any of those four, though depends on where you want to be. I got the sense that Hopkins and Penn have more widespread alumni networks, and NY program graduates tend to stay near the city.
 
Here are a couple pairs that are really close in my eyes. I'm wondering what people's thoughts are on whether one is better than the other, or if they really are too close to call.
(Disregard location as a factor)
.....
Downstate vs Stony Brook

Shift -

I graduated from Stony Brook last year, so let me know if you have specific questions. I think it's an excellent program, with strong commitment to continuing residency improvement. The chairman is the single "classiest" (if that's a word) human being I've ever met, and he walks the talk. I know you mentioned to disregard location as a factor, but *please* take note that it's NOT NYC. I know you know that, but it seems like every couple of years they match a resident that ends up disgruntled that - SURPRISE! - Stony Brook isn't in the City.

I did not interview, or even apply, at Downstate. The year I was applying (hell, it was last year), persons I know at Downstate gave me less than favorable reviews of that program. As it turns out, they had 5 out of 10 offered spots unfilled last year; if memory serves, it represented an large fraction of the total unfilled spots in the country. Not sure how you feel about Brooklyn.

I don't know how to read into the unfilled spots thing...in fact, Stony Brook had a horrific match year only a few years ago.

My biased opinion puts Stony Brook way ahead of Downstate.

dc
 
I graduated from Stony Brook last year, so let me know if you have specific questions. I think it's an excellent program, with strong commitment to continuing residency improvement. The chairman is the single "classiest" (if that's a word) human being I've ever met, and he walks the talk. I know you mentioned to disregard location as a factor, but *please* take note that it's NOT NYC. I know you know that, but it seems like every couple of years they match a resident that ends up disgruntled that - SURPRISE! - Stony Brook isn't in the City.

Thanks bigdan. Definitely know what you mean about it NOT being the city. When I visited, I noted that as a big con for me, and hence will most likely end up putting Downstate ahead. They also didn't seem to have as much acuity/complexity of cases as Downstate/Kings County. But I agree with all the positives (awesome chair and PD, strong didactics, 100% board pass, great sim training).

Care to comment on the other 3 pairs?
 
have several friends at hopkins and several residents at penn now who were at hopkins. worked very hard. great training. but unequivocally treated like crap. all the time.

i work very hard at penn. came for the training and am completely satisfied. always have great backup. after 6 months of residency i have already done 25 CPB cases, 5 circ arrest cases, lung tx, heart tx, kidneys and tons and tons of livers txs. yeah, i work very hard here but i genuinely like the people i work with. and i think we are treated pretty damn good. 2-3 weekends off a month when you are in the main OR...

know some people at cornell who seem to work hard but really love their program.
 
Shift -

I liked Hopkins. Arguably the single greatest name in the history of American hospitals. Training seemed like it was incredible. Huge ICU presence was a plus for me. As I've said in past posts, I think that there are several places that will give you "the best" training, that's why other factors need to come into play. Baltimore was far from home, etc. They may spend more hours in the operating rooms than other programs as well.

Penn: Interviewed there - one of the 13 I looked at - and chose not to rank.

I knew I would likely not want to be in NYC, so I did not apply to Cornell or Columbia. Likewise, Temple and Maryland were not programs I looked at. I have a friend at Cornell and one at Columbia right now (both as interns) and they are happy with their locations. Rumor re: Maryland in the past was malignant, but the guys in my class that interviewed there thought it looked great after some recent changes in administration were made.

You have an excellent list of programs. I will make the assumption that you're a strong applicant given the places that you're choosing from. From rumor only, please be very careful before ranking Downstate in a spot to match.

dc
 
Any thoughts on UCSD vs. UCLA? My feeling is that the two programs are pretty comparable, so it's more of a location issue. Would any insiders or people more familiar with the programs please care share some knowledge?
 
have several friends at hopkins and several residents at penn now who were at hopkins. worked very hard. great training. but unequivocally treated like crap. all the time.

i told myself i would stay out of the hopkins related part of these discussions, but this is a load of hot garbage. who do you know at hopkins right now that says they are "unequivocally treated like crap?"

on normal OR rotations, we are relieved or finished with cases between 4-5pm; average 4-5 calls a month on OR rotations with two weekends off a month. 50hrs/week.

cardiac is q4 home call (for after hours or weekend emergency cases), naturally our days are longer (5am-6pm), but post call day, if we don't get called in, we come in at 10am and help turn over cases, see the inpatient pre-ops for the next day, and leave by 3pm. if we do get called in, we don't come in at ALL. since it is home call, each resident takes one saturday and one friday-sunday. two weekends off a month. 60hrs/week.

two weeks of OB night float during our residency, otherwise OB day shift is 7a-7p with three residents (only one has to stay late to sign out to night float, the others are gone by 3p). will have one 24 hour saturday shift, and a 12 hour sunday shift. two weekends off a month. 50hrs/week.

pain clinic is 7a-5p weekdays, 1-2 weekend OR calls, no weekday calls. two weekends off a month. 50 hrs/week.

ICU is admittedly rough; q3 call. no full weekends off; however, on our pre-call days, we round with the team, help out with any procedures, and go home. weekends we only come in if we are on call; and we treat fridays as a weekend, so you get 4 days off during the month. 70 hrs/week.

we have two full days off (thursdays) each month with no clinical responsibility. no ICU, no OR, no OB, no pain clinic. instead of clinical medicine, you get a full day of sim lab, anatomy lab, oral board review, and lectures based on a curriculum that is set up for the whole year - each day basically corresponds to a 1-2 chapters in Barash. last week, it was based on autonomic nervous system physiology and pharmacology. on these days ALL clinical sites are covered by CRNAs, attendings, and fellows; as you can imagine this is a HUGE commitment, and shows the importance of education. the day runs from 7am-4pm. if you are on call that day, you don't report to where you are on call until 4pm; if you are not, you just go home. this school day, as we call it, is TREMENDOUSLY popular amongst the residents, obviously, as i think it is an amazing way to get ACGME required didactics -- otherwise, you are stuck with two undesirable alternatives (which is what you fill find at the vast majority of programs): early morning lectures (meaning you have to come in even earlier to get your room set up) or afternoon evening lectures (when you just want to go home anyway).

for conferences, if you get a poster accepted, you get to go to the conference. not just the day you are presenting, but the whole conference. and it is all paid for. hotel/flight/food. i got over $1500 reimbursement for this past ASA in new orleans. we sent 11 residents, and every dime (except for a few bar tabs, which we felt guilty submitting) was reimbursed. each resident is allowed two conferences a year in this fashion if they get research accepted.

weekday calls on OR rotations start at 3pm. so you have the whole day off before you come in for call. and you are relieved from the OR at 7am, have a 30-60 min post call conference where you discuss the cases from the night, and you are out the door by 8am.

two two-week blocks of vacation per year; and 5 days additional either at christmas or new years (we put in requests, and usually it is a 50/50 split so everyone gets what they want). we get a thursday call before our vacation, and a monday call after our vacation, so time off is maximized. 5 non-clinical days during your CA-3 year for interviews/moving/etc.

now tell me how this is being "unequivocally treated like crap. all the time."??

as someone said before, there are a lot of good programs, all of which will train you very well; in addition, there are probably even a shorter list that will help you in a future career in academics. i do believe hopkins falls in that shorter list, but there are many others that do as well, including penn.

i won't lie and say baltimore is a better city then philly, because it is not (i lived in philly and much preferred it to baltimore). however, as far as the program itself goes, i think penn and hopkins are similar in terms of opportunities you have when you finish, and as detailed above, we are treated quite well, actually. something tells me you are either just talking trash on hopkins because you feel like it, or you are simply misinformed; i'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume it is the latter.
 
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mista, i wasn't trying to say hopkins is anything less than an amazing program with spectacular training. there is absolutely no question when you choose to go there you will be trained as a great anesthesiologist with excellent opportunities ahead off you. all i was relaying was what i have heard directly from several former hopkins residents that i spoke with.

you are absolutely right that there are many top places that will give you unparalleled training. this applicant obviously has some great choices ahead. i have nothing against hopkins. and it very well be that i am misinformed. always happy to learn more info and change my mind mista.

from my discussion with former residents they simply relayed that they were not treated well by their own department, much less their interactions with surgery and medicine. it has nothing to do with the call schedule. it has nothing to do with time off for conferences. it has to do with how they were treated throughout the hospital.

we take q4 cardiac home call too. but we dont ever come in post call.

ob is q4 for us. on your call day, you can typically go home during the day and come back in for sign out at 5p.

sicu is q4 with every post- post call day off.

main or is 3 weekends off a month. 3, maybe 4 call shifts over the course of the month.

hopkins offers incredible clinical training. no one will ever question that. and i have to say, i am incredibly jealous of your department's commitment to education. i really wish we had that much dedicated time. that thursday schedule sounds pretty amazing.
 
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Things are a bit different now. We have a very involved program director who has revamped the teaching curriculum (and cut our hours substantially). In my interactions with her, she is clearly a resident advocate.

Japhy, you said the residents were treated "like crap". I disagree. We certainly have stressful interactions at times, but this is the norm of our specialty. As the surgeons and nurses get to know you, the residency gets much easier, but I imagine we're not special in that regard.

Our only major interaction with medicine is during intubations in the MICU, and I've never had, nor heard of a problem. The surgery residents are fine, most of the surgery attendings are fine. Vast majority of the anesthesiology attendings are fine (and we're on a first-name basis with practically all of them). The RTs, PACU, OR and ICU nurses know me by name (I can't say the same about them).

As a CA1 at Hopkins you won't do liver transplants, or cardiac cases (plenty of kidneys to go around). I view that as a good thing. Those cases are complex enough (like the liver transplant I did a few months ago who was anhepatic for 3 days) that one should have a solid foundation in anesthesiology before doing. This enhances the learning from specialty cases that doesn't happen when you're a CA1. That's not to say CA1s do simple cases, acuity is high, just not livers or hearts.
I didn't rank Penn because of what I perceived to be overworked residents, attendings who complained during my interview and overall lack of a pleasant atmosphere during my visit. Regardless, I'm sure Penn is a great place to train. BTW, in the 3 years I've been at Hopkins, no resident has left to go to Penn so your sources are unclear.
 
Hey All!

This is my first post on the forum :) Would love any feedback on my current ROL, which I seem to re-order everyday...

1. BID
2. Brigham
3. MGH
4. Columbia
5. Stanford
6. UCSF
7. NYU
8. Cornell
9. UPenn
10. Mt. Sinai
11. Yale
12. Duke
13. U. Wash in Seattle
14-16 hope I don't have to go below that...
 
I don't mind too much on location though obviously bigger cities are more fun and have more amenities.

How would you guys rank the following?

Brigham
UCSF
Duke
University of Chicago
Beth Israel
 
I'l say up front I am completely biased as I am a Duke resident. With that said...

You're crazy for not ranking Duke numero uno. :D Here's my short list of why (your priorities may be different, which is cool, but if these things matter to you, read on....)

1. Quality of training- can't be beat. You may not do any formal cardiac until CA-2 year but no worries, as a CA-1 I've already taken care of ASA 5's with sepsis and LVADs, critical AS and HOCM. You aren't supposed to get the real meat of your regional training until CA-2/3, but as a CA-1 (with 1 month of ortho under my belt) I already have enough block numbers to graduate. There are many programs that will offer incredibly strong training, I'm not saying Duke is better than those, just saying it definitely contends so no worries there.

2. Quality of life- here's where we stand apart. We work hard...when at work. But we get relieved every day at 4:30. And then we go to do OUR OWN pre/post ops. You are never doing everyone else's. That means I am usually in my car headed home at 5 pm. Actually, I'm usually in my car headed to the gym. And then I drive to the home that I own. In the car I have paid off. And I might stop off for dinner out if I don't feel like cooking. All because Durham, NC is a super cheap place to live! With plenty of time to spare to read up for the next day's cases and be in bed by 10....or maybe later if I am staying up to plan next weekend's beach getaway (see below).

3. Call schedule- I have worked one weekend since June of 2009. And I have spent 6 nights in the hospital since that time as well. It's night float, and its a glorious thing. Plenty of knife and gun club trauma with crash central lines and massive transfusion protocols if that's your thing. But every other night I sleep in my own bed and have my weekends all to myself!

4. Fellow residents- the best part of the program. Everyone is super chill and NORMAL. Always someone in the resident room to commiserate or celebrate with (depending on how your day is going!). Good mix of marrieds and nonmarrieds (but some of the marrieds are actually the craziest!).

Don't let D-town bring you down. There's something to be said about having an extra couple grand at the end of each month to hop on that hour flight to NYC or Miami and live it up in a nice hotel :)

Just my 0.02. Good luck to you all!!!
 
Hey All!

This is my first post on the forum :) Would love any feedback on my current ROL, which I seem to re-order everyday...

1. BID
2. Brigham
3. MGH
4. Columbia
5. Stanford
6. UCSF
7. NYU
8. Cornell
9. UPenn
10. Mt. Sinai
11. Yale
12. Duke
13. U. Wash in Seattle
14-16. hope I don't have to go below that...

Can comment on the ones I attended (did not go to stanford, UW, UCSF, BID). My major deciding criteria are reputation, location, work environment, schedule, and people. Prefer Boston to NYC.

1. MGH - lived in beacon hill x 4 years - by far my favorite area to live in in Boston. Work hard but seemingly not too hard. Unbeatable reputation although that's a smaller factor with the top ones on this list. People were decently nice but a little stand-offish.
2. Cornell - great location, awesome castle-like hospital which even has a moat (east river), very convenient housing. Hours seem bad but not as bad as others below. Cool chair and PD('s). Great reputation.
3. BWH - Boston, but not as ideal a location in Boston, and KILLER hours! Another unbeatable reputation. Super friendly staff.
4. Duke - Nice nightfloat system, nice hospital (great cafeteria!), great reputation. Did not like the people too much surprisingly - seemed very hierarchical and excessively formal. The triangle's great but Durham itself sucks. OK schedule.
5. Sinai - really cool people, better location in NYC than Columbia (not as good as cornell's though and very limited housing unlike cornell), nice schedule. Reputation outside NYC not QUITE as strong as others (I will be going west so this is more of an issue for me) but building every year and certainly very well respected already as THE place to be in anesthesia within NYC.
6. Columbia - didn't like the people or the location that much. Great reputation. EXTREMELY research focused which turned me off. And that PD's ppt presentation was something to behold.
7. Penn - Really disliked one of the two leaders (PD, chair). Guess which? Just couldn't stand how arrogant he was. Another unnecessarily BAD schedule. Didn't like phili nearly as much as I'd hoped. Great reputation though.
8. NYU - very solid, well-rounded program with really no deficiencies at all. Maybe the most well-rounded of all of them. Very nice location within NYC. Didn't like the old, dingy work environment (aesthetics are important to me). With this list, despite a fantastic reputation, NYU's is SLIGHTLY lower on the totem pole which is ONLY an issue for people like me going out west afterwards.
9. Yale - Program is nice overall BUT: New Haven's terrible - friend of mine was killed there - I hate that "city" - probably an unjust defense mechanism but I stand by it. Didn't like the people either (including the fabled Barash). Reputation is good.
 
Can comment on the ones I attended (did not go to stanford, UW, UCSF, BID). My major deciding criteria are reputation, location, work environment, schedule, and people. Prefer Boston to NYC.

1. MGH - lived in beacon hill x 4 years - by far my favorite area to live in in Boston. Work hard but seemingly not too hard. Unbeatable reputation although that's a smaller factor with the top ones on this list. People were decently nice but a little stand-offish.
2. Cornell - great location, awesome castle-like hospital which even has a moat (east river), very convenient housing. Hours seem bad but not as bad as others below. Cool chair and PD('s). Great reputation.
3. BWH - Boston, but not as ideal a location in Boston, and KILLER hours! Another unbeatable reputation. Super friendly staff.
4. Duke - Nice nightfloat system, nice hospital (great cafeteria!), great reputation. Did not like the people too much surprisingly - seemed very hierarchical and excessively formal. The triangle's great but Durham itself sucks. OK schedule.
5. Sinai - really cool people, better location in NYC than Columbia (not as good as cornell's though and very limited housing unlike cornell), nice schedule. Reputation outside NYC not QUITE as strong as others (I will be going west so this is more of an issue for me) but building every year and certainly very well respected already as THE place to be in anesthesia within NYC.
6. Columbia - didn't like the people or the location that much. Great reputation. EXTREMELY research focused which turned me off. And that PD's ppt presentation was something to behold.
7. Penn - Really disliked one of the two leaders (PD, chair). Guess which? Just couldn't stand how arrogant he was. Another unnecessarily BAD schedule. Didn't like phili nearly as much as I'd hoped. Great reputation though.
8. NYU - very solid, well-rounded program with really no deficiencies at all. Maybe the most well-rounded of all of them. Very nice location within NYC. Didn't like the old, dingy work environment (aesthetics are important to me). With this list, despite a fantastic reputation, NYU's is SLIGHTLY lower on the totem pole which is ONLY an issue for people like me going out west afterwards.
9. Yale - Program is nice overall BUT: New Haven's terrible - friend of mine was killed there - I hate that "city" - probably an unjust defense mechanism but I stand by it. Didn't like the people either (including the fabled Barash). Reputation is good.

Seemed like you didn't like the people at a lot of the programs you visited...interesting.

I would rank this list quite differently, but I guess that's why I think it's pointless for people to post their rank lists here and ask others to put them in their order. It makes no sense.

Oh well, good luck this year everyone! I know this is an exciting time of year for you all.

-Chef
 
1. MGH - lived in beacon hill x 4 years - by far my favorite area to live in in Boston. Work hard but seemingly not too hard. Unbeatable reputation although that's a smaller factor with the top ones on this list. People were decently nice but a little stand-offish.
2. Cornell - great location, awesome castle-like hospital which even has a moat (east river), very convenient housing. Hours seem bad but not as bad as others below. Cool chair and PD('s). Great reputation.
3. BWH - Boston, but not as ideal a location in Boston, and KILLER hours! Another unbeatable reputation. Super friendly staff.
4. Duke - Nice nightfloat system, nice hospital (great cafeteria!), great reputation. Did not like the people too much surprisingly - seemed very hierarchical and excessively formal. The triangle's great but Durham itself sucks. OK schedule.
5. Sinai - really cool people, better location in NYC than Columbia (not as good as cornell's though and very limited housing unlike cornell), nice schedule. Reputation outside NYC not QUITE as strong as others (I will be going west so this is more of an issue for me) but building every year and certainly very well respected already as THE place to be in anesthesia within NYC.
6. Columbia - didn't like the people or the location that much. Great reputation. EXTREMELY research focused which turned me off. And that PD's ppt presentation was something to behold.
7. Penn - Really disliked one of the two leaders (PD, chair). Guess which? Just couldn't stand how arrogant he was. Another unnecessarily BAD schedule. Didn't like phili nearly as much as I'd hoped. Great reputation though.
8. NYU - very solid, well-rounded program with really no deficiencies at all. Maybe the most well-rounded of all of them. Very nice location within NYC. Didn't like the old, dingy work environment (aesthetics are important to me). With this list, despite a fantastic reputation, NYU's is SLIGHTLY lower on the totem pole which is ONLY an issue for people like me going out west afterwards.
9. Yale - Program is nice overall BUT: New Haven's terrible - friend of mine was killed there - I hate that "city" - probably an unjust defense mechanism but I stand by it. Didn't like the people either (including the fabled Barash). Reputation is good.

For BWH -- did you mean killer good or killer bad with regard to the hours? Just curious.
 
Can comment on the ones I attended (did not go to stanford, UW, UCSF, BID). My major deciding criteria are reputation, location, work environment, schedule, and people. Prefer Boston to NYC.
...I will be going west so this is more of an issue for me...

Very nice to hear a different applicant's perspective! Thanks for posting! Sometimes I feel that I actually learn a lot about programs from the people I met on the interview trail..:)

Just out of curiosity - since you will be going west, why didn't you interview at UCSF / Stanford? I thought that these two might have been the top of your list based on their geographic location...
 
Why people interview all over the country when LOCATION is your primary determinant is beyond me...

but anyway...

I think Stanford, UCSF, Columbia, Penn, and Duke are the best of that bunch.

Hey All!

This is my first post on the forum :) Would love any feedback on my current ROL, which I seem to re-order everyday...

1. BID
2. Brigham
3. MGH
4. Columbia
5. Stanford
6. UCSF
7. NYU
8. Cornell
9. UPenn
10. Mt. Sinai
11. Yale
12. Duke
13. U. Wash in Seattle
14-16 hope I don't have to go below that...
 
Any thoughts on UCSD vs. UCLA? My feeling is that the two programs are pretty comparable, so it's more of a location issue. Would any insiders or people more familiar with the programs please care share some knowledge?

Personally I have a better feeling at UCSD than UCLA. Interviews were far more personal and residents seem nicer in general.
 
Can comment on the ones I attended (did not go to stanford, UW, UCSF, BID). My major deciding criteria are reputation, location, work environment, schedule, and people. Prefer Boston to NYC.

1. MGH - lived in beacon hill x 4 years - by far my favorite area to live in in Boston. Work hard but seemingly not too hard. Unbeatable reputation although that's a smaller factor with the top ones on this list. People were decently nice but a little stand-offish.
2. Cornell - great location, awesome castle-like hospital which even has a moat (east river), very convenient housing. Hours seem bad but not as bad as others below. Cool chair and PD('s). Great reputation.
3. BWH - Boston, but not as ideal a location in Boston, and KILLER hours! Another unbeatable reputation. Super friendly staff.
4. Duke - Nice nightfloat system, nice hospital (great cafeteria!), great reputation. Did not like the people too much surprisingly - seemed very hierarchical and excessively formal. The triangle's great but Durham itself sucks. OK schedule.
5. Sinai - really cool people, better location in NYC than Columbia (not as good as cornell's though and very limited housing unlike cornell), nice schedule. Reputation outside NYC not QUITE as strong as others (I will be going west so this is more of an issue for me) but building every year and certainly very well respected already as THE place to be in anesthesia within NYC.
6. Columbia - didn't like the people or the location that much. Great reputation. EXTREMELY research focused which turned me off. And that PD's ppt presentation was something to behold.
7. Penn - Really disliked one of the two leaders (PD, chair). Guess which? Just couldn't stand how arrogant he was. Another unnecessarily BAD schedule. Didn't like phili nearly as much as I'd hoped. Great reputation though.
8. NYU - very solid, well-rounded program with really no deficiencies at all. Maybe the most well-rounded of all of them. Very nice location within NYC. Didn't like the old, dingy work environment (aesthetics are important to me). With this list, despite a fantastic reputation, NYU's is SLIGHTLY lower on the totem pole which is ONLY an issue for people like me going out west afterwards.
9. Yale - Program is nice overall BUT: New Haven's terrible - friend of mine was killed there - I hate that "city" - probably an unjust defense mechanism but I stand by it. Didn't like the people either (including the fabled Barash). Reputation is good.

Hey stimmed, did you mean killer in a good way or bad way for BWH?
 
Could someone please help me with:

Scott and White
MUSC
Baylor
UTMB

Thanks in advance.
 
Hey All!

This is my first post on the forum :) Would love any feedback on my current ROL, which I seem to re-order everyday...

1. BID
2. Brigham
3. MGH
4. Columbia
5. Stanford
6. UCSF
7. NYU
8. Cornell
9. UPenn
10. Mt. Sinai
11. Yale
12. Duke
13. U. Wash in Seattle
14-16 hope I don't have to go below that...

This is a hard one to rank dude, >50% of your list are easily #1 on many rank lists. I would take your top 7 and base it on location. Do you want Boston, NYC or California?
 
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This is a hard one to rank dude, >50% of your list are easily #1 on many rank lists. I would take your top 7 and base it on location. Do you want Boston, NYC or California?

No kiddin'. I thought it was a joke...

Congrats - these are the kinds of problems that it's good to have!

dc
 
opinions -

OHSU
UW
Miami
Penn
Virginia Mason (Seattle)
Cedars Sinai
UCIrvine
USC
Baylor
UTSW
UChicago
 
Hey All!

This is my first post on the forum :) Would love any feedback on my current ROL, which I seem to re-order everyday...

1. BID
2. Brigham
3. MGH
4. Columbia
5. Stanford
6. UCSF
7. NYU
8. Cornell
9. UPenn
10. Mt. Sinai
11. Yale
12. Duke
13. U. Wash in Seattle
14-16 hope I don't have to go below that...

Great list! You truly have some wonderful options. I'll be headed to BID next year (doing my prelim in the midwest currently) and I'm really excited about it. What sold me on the place, aside from Boston being an awesome city, were the people, the opportunities and reportedly excellent didactics. You can never underestimate a positive working environment.

Just to give you an example, they assign you a "big sib" from the class ahead of you and mine is already helping me set up a realtor when I travel out there to find an apartment (and offered to let me stay with him and his wife while I'm in town). That being said, I'm not going to impose like that but it's a great offer and I think it goes to show you the kind of people there. When picking a program, rank places with your head and then also by "gut feeling"... with a lot of weight on the latter. Never served me wrong.

All that being said, you'll have the opportunity to become a great anesthesiologist at any of the places on your rank list. Go to the place that will make you happiest, while at the same providing you the potential of great opportunity. If you do end up at BID, I look forward to working with you and your first beer in town is on me. Best of luck this March!
 
Thanks so much everybody for all of your advice, insight, and words of wisdom!

Guitarguy - it'd be awesome to see you next year! unfortunately, i felt like my BID interview was my weakest :( for some reason i was just so nervous for that interview, maybe cuz i knew i wanted to go there. so i feel like i screwed that one up. i guess we'll see tho
 
Thanks so much everybody for all of your advice, insight, and words of wisdom!

Guitarguy - it'd be awesome to see you next year! unfortunately, i felt like my BID interview was my weakest :( for some reason i was just so nervous for that interview, maybe cuz i knew i wanted to go there. so i feel like i screwed that one up. i guess we'll see tho

Well, keep in mind that you are most likely a very competitive candidate (via looking at your rank list options). Just drop them a line and be sure to let them know of your continued interest in the program. All the best! :thumbup:
 
Great list! You truly have some wonderful options. I'll be headed to BID next year (doing my prelim in the midwest currently) and I'm really excited about it. What sold me on the place, aside from Boston being an awesome city, were the people, the opportunities and reportedly excellent didactics. You can never underestimate a positive working environment.

Just to give you an example, they assign you a "big sib" from the class ahead of you and mine is already helping me set up a realtor when I travel out there to find an apartment (and offered to let me stay with him and his wife while I'm in town). That being said, I'm not going to impose like that but it's a great offer and I think it goes to show you the kind of people there. When picking a program, rank places with your head and then also by "gut feeling"... with a lot of weight on the latter. Never served me wrong.

All that being said, you'll have the opportunity to become a great anesthesiologist at any of the places on your rank list. Go to the place that will make you happiest, while at the same providing you the potential of great opportunity. If you do end up at BID, I look forward to working with you and your first beer in town is on me. Best of luck this March!

What guitarguy said is mucho importante. Beside location, I also based my ranking heavily on the people of the program. Simple kindness goes a long way! Ideally, a perfect program = +LOCATION, +PEOPLE, +REPUTATION/TRAINING. That said, I guess BID is going to be hard to beat on your list anesNY!
 
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First time posting! Your thoughts on my list, no location preference...

UCSF
B&W
Mayo
UCLA
BID
Michigan
UW
OHSU
Wash U
 
+hot nurses, +free time

+free food +free parking

+more hot nurses for dreammachine

they may be hot now...but age will take us all down one day :D

From this:

naughty-nurse-costum.jpg



To This eventually:

nurse.jpg
 
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Thanks so much everybody for all of your advice, insight, and words of wisdom!

Guitarguy - it'd be awesome to see you next year! unfortunately, i felt like my BID interview was my weakest :( for some reason i was just so nervous for that interview, maybe cuz i knew i wanted to go there. so i feel like i screwed that one up. i guess we'll see tho

nothing sure if this is going to help you but i was told by some resident that the "i'll rank you number one" actually matters so if you have decided to rank BID #1, i'd bet that they'd love to hear this.

ps. i know many people will disagree with this statement and that it is very institution dependent, but just thought i'd share what i was told...
 
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First time posting! Your thoughts on my list, no location preference...

UCSF
B&W
Mayo
UCLA
BID
Michigan
UW
OHSU
Wash U

Just my two cents...

1. BID
2. Mayo
3. B&W
4. UCSF
5. Wash U
6. Michigan
7. UCLA
8. OHSU
9. UW (seattle im assuming)

Good luck with the Match!
 
Hey everyone,

I interviewed at several places in the midwest and northeast. However, I'm from Ohio, and wanted to get people's take on the six Ohio residency programs, where I interviewed (Cincinnati, OSU, Toledo, Cleveland Clinic, Case (Metrohealth), and Case Western UH). How would you rank them? Also, what have people heard about Case Western UH?

Thanks for your help
 
hey everyone,

i interviewed at several places in the midwest and northeast. However, i'm from ohio, and wanted to get people's take on the six ohio residency programs, where i interviewed (cincinnati, osu, toledo, cleveland clinic, case (metrohealth), and case western uh). How would you rank them? Also, what have people heard about case western uh?

Thanks for your help

ccf #1
 
First time posting! Your thoughts on my list, no location preference...

UCSF
B&W
Mayo
UCLA
BID
Michigan
UW
OHSU
Wash U

1 BID
2 BW vs Mayo vs. OHSU vs. UCSF (hard pick here, any preference at all? I would talk to the residents, ask about their typical day, in my limited OP...if you want a name brand go with MAYO or BW, if you want an awesome location with high cost of living UCSF>BW, if you want an awesome location with lower cost of living = OHSU, if you want awesome people/name/resident life/married? go with MAYO)
3 Wash U vs. Mich
4 UCLA vs UW
 
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What about the Surgery, ER, and Internal Medicine programs. Is the rumor around there that they will eventually become UPMC (just like in Anesthesiology).

Also, what about the anesthesiology residents that matched at Mercy in 2009. Will they have the same UPMC diploma as someone that matched at UPMC in Anesthesiology in 2009? Will there be two separate diplomas i.e UPMC and UPMC/Mercy for people that are in training at Mercy before the merger?

Hey folks, sorry to break up the rank list help goodness but as a current UPMC anesthesiology resident I just wanted to clarify some of the misconceptions that seem to be circulating re the pending merger with the Mercy residency program. We recently had a meeting involving both sets of residents as well as both PDs regarding this very topic (complete with powerpoint presentation, Q+A session, etc...). Essentially, the plan is to merge the residency programs into a single program as of July 1, 2010. So, those of you matching this year (to UPMC and/or Mercy) will match into a single integrated residency class, which will rotate through multiple sites including UPMC Mercy.

This translates into the following sort of residency experience: medium size (in terms of the residency class size), university based academic program with multiple sites and high/varied clinical volume, exceptional general and subspecialty rotations, strong didactics, abundant research opportunities, etc... Given sheer clinical volume, this merger is not expected to adversely affect individual resident experience. In contrast to what was posted above, this plan is well defined and is pending ACGME approval, which is anticipated. I would be more than happy to respond to any questions you may have re this or any other aspect of the UPMC program. Best of luck with the match.


EDIT: So, I've received some questions about this post and thought that, for the sake of openness/clarity, I'd add the following re rotation sites:

(1) Asssuming that the merger is approved, Mercy would become another site available for UPMC anesthesiology residents to rotate through. From what we were told, if you'd like to do the majority of your rotations at Mercy you will be able to (the exceptions that come to mind are one month of liver transplant and one month of neuro anesthesia, both of which would be done at Presbyterian/Montefiore). Keep in mind that Mercy residents already rotate through Magee Women's Hospital for OB and Children's for peds.

(2) Likewise, if you'd like to do most of your rotations at sites other than Mercy you will be able to do that as well (the only exception that I can recall is one month of neuro anesthesia; we have a two month neuro anesthesia rotation, one month of which would be at Presby/Monte and the other at Mercy).

(3) This would apply equally to those matching this cycle at UPMC and at UPMC Mercy.
 
hey everyone -- long time reader but first time post. need help ranking programs.. location does not matter.. thanks for ur help.

UMDNJ-NJMS
Thomas Jefferson
Penn State
St. Joesph
Westchester
UMASS
West Virginia
St Barnabas
Suny Upstate
Wayne State
 
hey everyone -- long time reader but first time post. need help ranking programs.. location does not matter.. thanks for ur help.

UMDNJ-NJMS
Thomas Jefferson
Penn State
St. Joesph
Westchester
UMASS
West Virginia
St Barnabas
Suny Upstate
Wayne State

Jefferson would be my number one on your list. Then Penn State.
 
Any suggestions? I've been hearing a lot about the east coast programs but never when comparing them to the west coast line up. I've gone to school in California for undergrad and med school and I want to move but still unsure if the other schools offer something more.

In no particular order 11 schools in total...

UCLA - they work hard and get the best jobs in So Cal after residency
St-Luke's-Roosevelt - they have great housing, solid program with lots of teaching
NYU - big program, good location, interesting cases
Stanford - I love their hospital, they have some of the biggest names in pain
USC - No research, nice hospital
UC Irvine - I liked their interview day, the chairman put on quite a show but still wondering if the image has changed. New hospital, friendly people. Residents seemed hesitant and you get shipped out a lot in your 2nd year.
UCSD - great program I was impressed by the PD and had a good interview with one of their CV attendings
Loma Linda - great peds and critical care, I don't mind going veggy and you can find coffee there no problem haha, still kind of out there
Univ of Chicago - the hospital seems to be having some trouble but they have a great department
Duke
UT Southwestern - One of the best pain departments but friends say the people there are high on themselves

I didn't get interviews at all these places but I'm wondering what the order is on the California schools: UCSF > UCLA > UCSD > Stanford > UC Irvine = Loma Linda > USC > Cedars-Sinai > Harbor-UCLA

Thanks and congrats to all the people on this thread who've been posting their amazing lists
 
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After reading through the multitude of rank lists and subjective reasoning, it would be fun to hear thoughts on my list.

In no particular order

Dartmouth
MGH
U Colorado
UW (seattle)
virginia mason (seattle)
OHSU
UCSF
Stanford
UCLA

this post has not been edited for spelling
 
I didn't get interviews at all these places but I'm wondering what the order is on the California schools: UCSF > UCLA > UCSD > Stanford > UC Irvine = Loma Linda > USC > Cedars-Sinai > Harbor-UCLA

Everyone's needs differ but 2 years ago I ranked them (or would have ranked them if I interviewed):

UCSD
Stanford
UCLA
UCSF (did not get interview despite honoring away rotation; did not get along with a few faculty)
Cedars
USC
UCI (declined interview)
Loma Linda (declined interview)
Harbor (did not apply)

I think strong arguments can be made for ranking any of those top four #1 - depending on your academic/career interests and geographical biases.
 
After reading through the multitude of rank lists and subjective reasoning, it would be fun to hear thoughts on my list.

In no particular order

Dartmouth
MGH
U Colorado
UW (seattle)
virginia mason (seattle)
OHSU
UCSF
Stanford
UCLA

this post has not been edited for spelling

I interviewed (and liked) a bunch of these too. I'd be interested to hear what people have to say.
 
I interviewed (and liked) a bunch of these too. I'd be interested to hear what people have to say.

Everyone's needs differ but 2 years ago I ranked them (or would have ranked them if I interviewed):

UCSD
Stanford
UCLA
UCSF (did not get interview despite honoring away rotation; did not get along with a few faculty)
Cedars
USC
UCI (declined interview)
Loma Linda (declined interview)
Harbor (did not apply)

I think strong arguments can be made for ranking any of those top four #1 - depending on your academic/career interests and geographical biases.

Thanks for the reply lord_jeebus, mind sharing why? You put UCSD at the top and UCSF 4th. I hear UCSF can be jerks even if you rotate, I didn't even get an interview. Everyone I know tells me UCSF, UCLA and then everyone else so I'm thinking UCLA for #1 - they work you hard but you get the best jobs - any truth to that? Seems like every graduate is having a tough time finding a job in this economy so reputation matters to me because employers care. I know I'd get great training at most of these places.

Wow, Cedars right after the top 4? I hear it's a small program without much of a reputation. Strong Ob, Cardio and great location in Beverly Hills. But Cedars is a community program, poor didactics, and you're always 1-on-1 with an attending. Loma Linda is strong in peds, ICU and their resident's fellowships were very impressive. Location sucks but just based on reputation and training it seems better. That's why I went to my Loma Linda interview and didn't go to Cedars, I didn't think the training would be as strong.

I know UC Irvine had a few problems when you were applying and their hospital is trying to become competitive. What I thought was funny is in the OR's they have big posters saying not to talk bad about people and to be respectful. The chairman seems to be turning things around, but talking to older people in the field like you who know Irvine's reputation it'll take a few years before the image changes.

Thank you for all the help
 
Thanks for the reply lord_jeebus, mind sharing why? You put UCSD at the top and UCSF 4th. I hear UCSF can be jerks even if you rotate, I didn't even get an interview. Everyone I know tells me UCSF, UCLA and then everyone else so I'm thinking UCLA for #1 - they work you hard but you get the best jobs - any truth to that? Seems like every graduate is having a tough time finding a job in this economy so reputation matters to me because employers care. I know I'd get great training at most of these places.

Wow, Cedars right after the top 4? I hear it's a small program without much of a reputation. Strong Ob, Cardio and great location in Beverly Hills. But Cedars is a community program, poor didactics, and you're always 1-on-1 with an attending. Loma Linda is strong in peds, ICU and their resident's fellowships were very impressive. Location sucks but just based on reputation and training it seems better. That's why I went to my Loma Linda interview and didn't go to Cedars, I didn't think the training would be as strong.

I know UC Irvine had a few problems when you were applying and their hospital is trying to become competitive. What I thought was funny is in the OR's they have big posters saying not to talk bad about people and to be respectful. The chairman seems to be turning things around, but talking to older people in the field like you who know Irvine's reputation it'll take a few years before the image changes.

Thank you for all the help

I didn't get the impression that UCLA grads were getting better jobs than UCSF, Stanford, or UCSD grads. I'm not sure what you're basing that on. They are likely more successful in the LA area, if that is what's important to you. Every anesthesia applicant in my graduating class who got the interviews ranked Stanford and UCSD above UCLA; we all got weird vibes there but perhaps they have improved their interview day. I don't doubt that they get very strong training. A pain attending at UCLA told me "we give no preferential treatment to our residents when we pick our fellows" which was discouraging.

I don't know much about Loma Linda, to be honest, perhaps if I interviewed there I would have listed it higher.

I was a prelim at Irvine, I had minimal interaction with their residents though. The whole institution has issues, but not severe enough to deter you from ranking them (but I wouldn't want to be a patient there!). I did not interview because I had so many problems with their office staff telling me a day was available and then telling me I had to reschedule after I asked for it.

I liked Cedars in that they don't depend on their residency for labor, which I think would allow a strong focus on education. Also I would guess that if you're an all-star resident there, it puts in you in a great position for working there in the future relative to a graduate of any outside program. I think once you go below the big 4 CA programs, you're not really going to get a significant boost from the minor prestige of the other academic programs vs Cedars.

Bear in mind that in the end, outside of my own program (UCSD) I know about as much about the other programs as you do.
 
I didn't get the impression that UCLA grads were getting better jobs than UCSF, Stanford, or UCSD grads. I'm not sure what you're basing that on. They are likely more successful in the LA area, if that is what's important to you. Every anesthesia applicant in my graduating class who got the interviews ranked Stanford and UCSD above UCLA; we all got weird vibes there but perhaps they have improved their interview day. I don't doubt that they get very strong training. A pain attending at UCLA told me "we give no preferential treatment to our residents when we pick our fellows" which was discouraging.

I don't know much about Loma Linda, to be honest, perhaps if I interviewed there I would have listed it higher.

I was a prelim at Irvine, I had minimal interaction with their residents though. The whole institution has issues, but not severe enough to deter you from ranking them (but I wouldn't want to be a patient there!). I did not interview because I had so many problems with their office staff telling me a day was available and then telling me I had to reschedule after I asked for it.

I liked Cedars in that they don't depend on their residency for labor, which I think would allow a strong focus on education. Also I would guess that if you're an all-star resident there, it puts in you in a great position for working there in the future relative to a graduate of any outside program. I think once you go below the big 4 CA programs, you're not really going to get a significant boost from the minor prestige of the other academic programs vs Cedars.

Bear in mind that in the end, outside of my own program (UCSD) I know about as much about the other programs as you do.


I would echo that I had weird vibes at UCLA. 2 out of my 3 interviews were pretty awkward. On the other hand, everyone at UCSD were very nice and genuine, esp the chair. From what I heard, it does not sound like UCLA grads get the best jobs in Cali. I was talking to several UCLA CA-3s and they have big problems finding jobs and have to revert to fellowships.
 
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