Official 2014-2015 IM WAMC Thread

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repost:
I have a general question that may benefit many users as well

let's say there are some programs your interested in who have not responded, either with a rejection or invitation. Given were already in November, How much of a difference would emailing PD make or is their a better way to go about it showing your still interested.

thnx much
 
Step1syncope said:
repost:
I have a general question that may benefit many users as well

let's say there are some programs your interested in who have not responded, either with a rejection or invitation. Given were already in November, How much of a difference would emailing PD make or is their a better way to go about it showing your still interested.

thnx much
Click to expand...

I think no one has responded to you because there are already posts on this same topic if you look harder. You can call/email the program coordinator and see the status of your app/express interest. But to answer your question idk how much of a difference this actually makes - doesn't always help a whole lot but it can't hurt you since you don't have an invite anyways
 
Hello Guys
I am a regular reader of sdn, I owe a lot to these forums. But this is my first post.
I am an IMG with YOG 2013 and both step scores of low 250s. I will get CS results in late Nov and get ECFMG certified. I have good performance in my med school and got 1 US Lor but no publications.
What do u suggest?
I am thinking of applying in early December although its late. What are my chances for IM?
I would be glad to take the most low tier university program, I am little hesitant but will even take community program if I can match this year.
Need your help frens: which programs should I apply? how many?
 
I was curious as to which schools offer residency Ph.D programs, I am interested in research, and was curious if there are any programs that allow you to obtain a Ph.D while concurrently being a resident. I am aware of MD/PhD programs, but I am looking for programs that you do primarily while you are a resident. I greatly appreciate any help in regards to this program.
 
Hello,

I am a current third year at a DO school. I had some nonacademic issues in 2nd year that contributed to my not taking the USMLE step 1 at that time. I have been trying to juggle rotations along with studying for the step 1 thus far in 3rd year but it has been rather difficult. I am contemplating whether to just focus on the USMLE step 2 and score very well instead of taking the Step 1 and Step 2 in 3rd year. I had a 32 on my MCAT and standardized exams have never really fazed me before. I know fully well that my predicament with not taking the Step 1 arose from the nonacademic issues that I've been dealing with. My COMLEX Level 1 is a 520. What are my chances of getting into a decent mid-tier IM program that offers good training, preferably in the northeast(Philadelphia, New Jersey, Long Island, Washington D.C.,etc.) with a 520 COMLEX and let's say a 240-260 on the step 2? Would it really be better to take the step 1 in 3rd year and somehow score well even though I've been forgetting the material due to long hours at my rotation sites? I appreciate all advice. Thanks!
 
It's doable, if you get 245+ on CK, you can get interview at Stony, BI, Copper, Drexel, Albany, upstate, UMass, NJMS.

most important right now, is try to honor your medicine core, and 2 other core clerkship. Some programs filtered applicant based on honor grade in medicine.

Darkskies said:
Hello,

I am a current third year at a DO school. I had some nonacademic issues in 2nd year that contributed to my not taking the USMLE step 1 at that time. I have been trying to juggle rotations along with studying for the step 1 thus far in 3rd year but it has been rather difficult. I am contemplating whether to just focus on the USMLE step 2 and score very well instead of taking the Step 1 and Step 2 in 3rd year. I had a 32 on my MCAT and standardized exams have never really fazed me before. I know fully well that my predicament with not taking the Step 1 arose from the nonacademic issues that I've been dealing with. My COMLEX Level 1 is a 520. What are my chances of getting into a decent mid-tier IM program that offers good training, preferably in the northeast(Philadelphia, New Jersey, Long Island, Washington D.C.,etc.) with a 520 COMLEX and let's say a 240-260 on the step 2? Would it really be better to take the step 1 in 3rd year and somehow score well even though I've been forgetting the material due to long hours at my rotation sites? I appreciate all advice. Thanks!
Click to expand...
 
mk8mk8 said:
Step 1: 235
Step 2 CK/ CS: Taking later
School: Top 5
Class Rank: No ranking
Grades in Clekship: Honor in medicine, surgery and medicine sub-i
No AOA at my school
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: 1 poster presentation and an unpublished abstract (both 1st author)
Schools (in no particular order): I want to try and go to residency in California (Ca residenct). Thanks!

UCSF
Stanford
UCLA
Cedars
Harbor
UCSD
USC
UCSF/Fresno
UC Davis
UCI
Olive View
CPMC
Loma Linda
Scripps Clinic/Green
Scripps Mercy
SCVMC
UCR
U. Washington
Mayo (Arizona)
OHSU
MGH
Hopkins
Brigham
Penn
NY Presbyterian
Mayo (Rochester)
Click to expand...


Not sure about the California residencies but can speak about the AZ residencies. You almost have a guaranteed spot at Mayo clinic AZ-- very non-competitive and will take anyone (pretty much!). They go very low on their own rank list.
 
countinglambs said:
AMG at an unranked southern Allopathic school
Step I score: 211
Step 2 score: 240 (predicted right now)
rank: bottom quarter
Class scores: P in basic science; (Family, Ped, IM P; Surgery, Psych/OB all HP); great evaluations from all my attendings for every rotation.
Letters of Recommendation: 3 really strong letters from the dean, and the clerkship coordinators who I worked under
3 Publications as second author, second author, fifth author
4 poster presentations including one national
Volunteering: established monthly health screening at children's museum, tech chair of homeless clinic, Aesculapian coordinator (part of peer elected curriculum review committee), and treasurer of two student organizations.
I am pursuing academic medicine

Chances of getting interviews?
If they're drunk when they see my app: Scripps, Wake Forest, Thomas Jefferson, UPME
Reaches: UAB, UMinn, VCU, UConn, U Maryland, Carolinas Med center, Mercy PA, MUSC, UTSW, Rutgers-RWJ
Realistic: U of Ark, Mayo (arizona), Cleveland (Fl), Louisville, U Miss, UCinn, UTSA, U of Utah
Safety: LSU BR, LSU, Ochsner

I'll go anywhere. Realistically what are the better programs I can get into?

Thanks
Click to expand...

Not a better program from those listed but there is no reason for you not to get into Mayo AZ. They have even been taking foreign grads and have had residents quit/ are desperate.
 
countinglambs said:
AMG at an unranked southern Allopathic school
Step I score: 211
Step 2 score: 240 (predicted right now)
rank: bottom quarter
Class scores: P in basic science; (Family, Ped, IM P; Surgery, Psych/OB all HP); great evaluations from all my attendings for every rotation.
Letters of Recommendation: 3 really strong letters from the dean, and the clerkship coordinators who I worked under
3 Publications as second author, second author, fifth author
4 poster presentations including one national
Volunteering: established monthly health screening at children's museum, tech chair of homeless clinic, Aesculapian coordinator (part of peer elected curriculum review committee), and treasurer of two student organizations.
I am pursuing academic medicine

Chances of getting interviews?
If they're drunk when they see my app: Scripps, Wake Forest, Thomas Jefferson, UPME
Reaches: UAB, UMinn, VCU, UConn, U Maryland, Carolinas Med center, Mercy PA, MUSC, UTSW, Rutgers-RWJ
Realistic: U of Ark, Mayo (arizona), Cleveland (Fl), Louisville, U Miss, UCinn, UTSA, U of Utah
Safety: LSU BR, LSU, Ochsner

I'll go anywhere. Realistically what are the better programs I can get into?

Thanks
Click to expand...

As I may have mentioned before-- very high chance of getting interview at Mayo AZ especially if you are a U.S. Allopathic grad.
 
sddh said:
also, how would you guys rank the three mayo campuses in minnesota, florida, and arizona?
Click to expand...

It depends on what you are looking for...if you are wanting to match into a competitive fellowship would rank the following:
1. MN
2. FL
3.AZ

Each program has their own pluses and minuses. AZ has too much in terms of politics and what they tell you during your interview is definitely not how the residency works (terrible hours, no support from the PD, mean chiefs... the list goes on). MN seems to be the best still. Not too familiar with the FL site however, I have heard good things about the structure from current residents.
 
Barring you getting the Nobel Prize in the interim, your chances will NOT be any better next year than this. Despite coming from a good school, you look terrible on paper. Grasp at every straw you can this year and hope for the best.
 
Beetles said:
Hello,

I'm in a challenging position with whether or not to turn in a rank list. I would really appreciate some advice to help navigate this! I'll try to keep this short, but still do justice to my situation.

I'm a student at top 20 medical school. I was going through some personal struggles my second year and did poorly on Step 1, then received straight passes my third year but without remediation. I took time off after third year and did some stellar research at an elite institution. I came back to fourth year, have passed everything fourth year (no high passes or honors) and am waiting for my Step 2 score. The advice to me at the beginning of this year was to throw my application out there and see what happens. So, I did.

How it shaped up was that I got 3 interviews: My home institution, Case Western, Cleveland Clinic

I met with the residency director at my home institution who said that I was in the "middle of the pack" on their rank list. He said that I might get in, but he "wouldn't waste (my) number one email" on my home institution. I have no idea where I am on Case Western or Cleveland Clinic's list but my interviewers did give me their business cards to contact them.

Sooooo.... the question is... what do I do?



Here are my stats:
**Applying internal medicine
-Step 1: 190
-Step 2: waiting
-3rd year: All Pass
-4th year: All Pass, even Sub-I* (Sub-I was especially disappointing, I'm not sure why I received a pass because 2/3 attendings I was with said I should get honors and 1/3 thought I should pass)
-Research: Extremely strong, with pubs, great letters


Of the million things floating through my head...

-Do I turn in a rank list this year?
-Will my chances really improve for next year?
-Should I contact to discuss my Sub-I grade with someone (the residency director? the director of the clerkship? I don't know if it's a professional faux pas but that would have made a difference)
-I have strong links with one of the departments at my school, should I speak with someone there?


Any advice would be helpful. This has been a rough road for me! Thanks!
Click to expand...

it's very likely you won't match. what you should be asking is whether you should SOAP into a prelim or categorical position or wait until next year's match when you will (hopefully) apply smarter and to WAY more programs (tons of low tier university programs in undesirable locations and lots of community programs) with the hope that a mid-to-low tier university program will want to scoop you up because of where you went to med school ....which is way better than you'd do in the scramble.

it's mind boggling that the one thing that could've remotely redeemed your app (taking step 2 early) you didn't even bother doing. also straight passes with a pass in your SubI is a huge red flag...you should've done everything in your power to get that changed to a HP
 
Really good points above.

I have a similar app (top 20, research w/ pubs, step 1 in the 200s, mostly passes), and I knew it was going to be a tough uphill climb coming into this cycle. The advice that people gave me on this forum in June to take step 2 as early as possible and do a very early sub-i with intention to honor has been excellent and given me several interviews at university programs which I otherwise wouldn't have a shot at. That, and applying very broadly.

IM is extremely competitive now and if you don't have certain board scores and clerkship grades, the school you attend and any other extra stuff you do literally don't matter.
 
Do programs see your grades from fourth year rotations? I got honors during third year but in fourth year, my school is strictly pass/fail and I don't want it to look suspicious after getting honors to suddenly have nothing but straight passes.
 
meliora27 said:
Do programs see your grades from fourth year rotations? I got honors during third year but in fourth year, my school is strictly pass/fail and I don't want it to look suspicious after getting honors to suddenly have nothing but straight passes.
Click to expand...
1. Only if your school sent your transcript late.
2. Nobody cares about 4th year grades except your SubI.
3. If you school only does P/F for M4, this will be noted in your MSPE and it won't make a difference.
 
gutonc said:
1. Only if your school sent your transcript late.
2. Nobody cares about 4th year grades except your SubI.
3. If you school only does P/F for M4, this will be noted in your MSPE and it won't make a difference.
Click to expand...

Thanks! Even sub-I's show up as passes. I'll stop worrying. Appreciate the response.
 
Is it possible to find out the breadth of where you applied? Thanks!
 
Beetles, I agree with gutonc. You should go through with the match this year. There's nothing for you to loose. Your chances are slim, but you never know. If I were you I would regret it if I did not go through with the match this year.
 
Low step scores from people at top 20s makes me sad.
 
lulu09 said:
Really good points above.

I have a similar app (top 20, research w/ pubs, step 1 in the 200s, mostly passes), and I knew it was going to be a tough uphill climb coming into this cycle. The advice that people gave me on this forum in June to take step 2 as early as possible and do a very early sub-i with intention to honor has been excellent and given me several interviews at university programs which I otherwise wouldn't have a shot at. That, and applying very broadly.

IM is extremely competitive now and if you don't have certain board scores and clerkship grades, the school you attend and any other extra stuff you do literally don't matter.
Click to expand...

Let's not go nuts. IM is not extremely competitive but has become more competitive than people realize or give it credit for.

It still matters where you do your med school but if you expect it to overcome mediocre grades AND step 1 scores to match into a strong university program you're in for a rude awakening. Still, coming from Hopkins with a 200 will allow you to match into SOME (likely university) program- just probably not MGH.
 
Depend on whether you honored your medicine 3rd year. If not, take sub-I or cardiology/icu elective early and honor them. The more 4th year honor you gain before ERAS open, the better your position.

majkan said:
Step 1: 230+
Step 2: 250+
Above avg on rotations.
Above avg in class. (75%)
Poster and some pre-med school pieces.
Top 40 school.

What about my chances at Mayo, OHSU, UW?
Click to expand...
 
NYDO2014 said:
Depend on whether you honored your medicine 3rd year. If not, take sub-I or cardiology/icu elective early and honor them. The more 4th year honor you gain before ERAS open, the better your position.
Click to expand...

Honoring the clerkship makes this much of a difference? That his application hinges on it?
 
Just recently decided I will be applying into Medicine and would appreciate your advice!

Step 1: 260+
Step 2: not taken yet
Clerkship grades: HP in everything, including medicine; have yet to do my sub-I
Top 5 school with a very strong medicine program
My school does not internally rank or give AOA
Research: 1 publication, 1 report, other publications in the works.

Overall my clerkship grades are definitely the weakest part of my application. I don't think I'm doing poorly at all (and have heard very positive feedback from my attendings) as much as not excelling relative to my peers.

However, now that I am set on medicine, I'm wondering:
1) what my chances are at matching to some of the top research IM programs (I'm aiming for an academic career)
2) what I can do in my remaining time to bolster my application (medicine electives? etc.)
3) any thoughts on best time to take step 2? I've been told given my step 1 score a late step 2 would be better...

Any help would be appreciated!!
 
jupp33 said:
Just recently decided I will be applying into Medicine and would appreciate your advice!

Step 1: 260+
Step 2: not taken yet
Clerkship grades: HP in everything, including medicine; have yet to do my sub-I
Top 5 school with a very strong medicine program
My school does not internally rank or give AOA
Research: 1 publication, 1 report, other publications in the works.

Overall my clerkship grades are definitely the weakest part of my application. I don't think I'm doing poorly at all (and have heard very positive feedback from my attendings) as much as not excelling relative to my peers.

However, now that I am set on medicine, I'm wondering:
1) what my chances are at matching to some of the top research IM programs (I'm aiming for an academic career)
2) what I can do in my remaining time to bolster my application (medicine electives? etc.)
3) any thoughts on best time to take step 2? I've been told given my step 1 score a late step 2 would be better...

Any help would be appreciated!!
Click to expand...
The only things to bolster your app would be to take your SubI and do your best to honor it. Then take step 2 in Aug and get a score = or > your step 1. Other then that, you have a strong application I think and you should get good interviews. If all else fails at least you know your home institution should give you some love.
 
jupp33 said:
Just recently decided I will be applying into Medicine and would appreciate your advice!

Step 1: 260+
Step 2: not taken yet
Clerkship grades: HP in everything, including medicine; have yet to do my sub-I
Top 5 school with a very strong medicine program
My school does not internally rank or give AOA
Research: 1 publication, 1 report, other publications in the works.

Overall my clerkship grades are definitely the weakest part of my application. I don't think I'm doing poorly at all (and have heard very positive feedback from my attendings) as much as not excelling relative to my peers.

However, now that I am set on medicine, I'm wondering:
1) what my chances are at matching to some of the top research IM programs (I'm aiming for an academic career)
2) what I can do in my remaining time to bolster my application (medicine electives? etc.)
3) any thoughts on best time to take step 2? I've been told given my step 1 score a late step 2 would be better...

Any help would be appreciated!!
Click to expand...

Interesting situation where I think anything can happen. I go to only a top 40 med school with 260+ step 1 and step 2, didn't honor IM, but did honor everything else. I got interviews at almost all the top IM programs (including 3 of the "Big Four"). Your med school reputation will make a big difference I think.

My recommendation (and I did the same given that I didn't honor medicine): take as many legit IM rotations/electives as you can and honor them all. No I don't mean Allergy/Immunology or any other outpatient nonsense. I'm talking CCU, ICU, heme/onc, renal, cardiology, GI, ID. I did two subIs (ICU and general medicine) and two other intense inpatient rotations right before ERAS went out. I honored them all and had great evals put into my MSPE. If you can do more than one medicine subI (in different areas of medicine), do it.

Step 2 doesn't matter too much given that you've aced Step 1. They'll know you're a good test taker so all you can really accomplish by taking it early is messing it up and invalidating your Step 1 performance. I don't agree with the above poster who recommends taking it in August. Late September or October (i.e. post-ERAS submission) is a better time so you can choose to release the score whenever you want.
 
Last edited:
I totally agree with everything rd31 said above. Only thing I would add to that is make sure to take Step 2 CS early enough that the score will be back before ROL are due. Only place I know that really cares is UCSF, but you still don't want to worry about it and the score takes a while to be reported.
 
Should probably clarify what I meant. If you take step 2 cs in August it should be at the end of Aug (i.e. study the month of Aug). That's the way I did it and my step 2 ck score came out 2 weeks after my eras app went in. I'd like to think my step 2 ck score landed me some interviews because it went in early enough for programs to consider it for interview. Just my 2 cents.
 
jupp33 said:
Just recently decided I will be applying into Medicine and would appreciate your advice!

Step 1: 260+
Step 2: not taken yet
Clerkship grades: HP in everything, including medicine; have yet to do my sub-I
Top 5 school with a very strong medicine program
My school does not internally rank or give AOA
Research: 1 publication, 1 report, other publications in the works.

Overall my clerkship grades are definitely the weakest part of my application. I don't think I'm doing poorly at all (and have heard very positive feedback from my attendings) as much as not excelling relative to my peers.

However, now that I am set on medicine, I'm wondering:
1) what my chances are at matching to some of the top research IM programs (I'm aiming for an academic career)
2) what I can do in my remaining time to bolster my application (medicine electives? etc.)
3) any thoughts on best time to take step 2? I've been told given my step 1 score a late step 2 would be better...

Any help would be appreciated!!
Click to expand...

O and btw, your school does internally rank. At least by quintiles or quartiles. They just haven't told you yet. It all comes out in the last paragraph of the MSPE...and no one is immune.
 
Thank you everyone for all the helpful advice! I have a lot to think about and probably need to book it to the registrar ASAP...
rd31 said:
O and btw, your school does internally rank. At least by quintiles or quartiles. They just haven't told you yet. It all comes out in the last paragraph of the MSPE...and no one is immune.
Click to expand...
I'm sure there is some internal ranking of some sort but we recently were assured by the deans that no ranking of any nature (numerical, quartile, choice use of "key" words in the narrative, etc.) appears in our school's MSPE. Would it be too naive to assume this is really the case?
 
jupp33 said:
Thank you everyone for all the helpful advice! I have a lot to think about and probably need to book it to the registrar ASAP...

I'm sure there is some internal ranking of some sort but we recently were assured by the deans that no ranking of any nature (numerical, quartile, choice use of "key" words in the narrative, etc.) appears in our school's MSPE. Would it be too naive to assume this is really the case?
Click to expand...
http://www.jacr.org/cms/attachment/2014568276/2036036500/mmc1.doc

Look your school up on this list. I'll bet dollars to donuts it will have some kind of code word. There's a handful that don't, but they're vastly outnumbered.
 
rd31 said:
Eh...this is inaccurate. My school is described as not having comparative data, but I know for a fact that we do use code words.
Click to expand...
It's not perfect but it's the only real source we have for comparison.

Original paper at http://www.jacr.org/article/S1546-1440(13)00767-9/abstract Note the last line of the abstract

The authors recognize that this database is incomplete and that the individual institutions will alter their ranking system from time to time. But this database is offered in an open format so that it can be continuously updated by users.
Click to expand...

I can confirm it was accurate for my old medical school, and can also confirm that they didn't tell any of the medical students about it.
 
Accurate for my school and also 2 others that my close friends are at.
 
TwoBits said:
Going into IM and would appreciate any advice!

Step 1: 219
Step 2: not taken yet
Basic Sciences: all pass
M3: Honors in IM; HP in Fam and Psych
3 research experiences, strong LORs, no red flags/gaps
US MD at top 50 in midwest

1) What are my chances of matching at academic institutions in Florida- UMiami, USF, UF?
2) Should I do an away at any of these programs?

I have strong ties to Florida- born and raised, undergrad, family. I also speak Spanish fluently.

Any help would be much appreciated. Thank you!
Click to expand...

So the best thing you can do is nail Step 2. Not the normal 10pt. increase, go for 240 or higher to show you learned during 3rd year. The honors in IM and 3 research experiences help a lot. Try to take a sub-I early and do well in that to better improve your standing.

Aways are weird. I did two of them. Both had no idea I did an away while I was there. I found this out after 3 weeks into the away (and something like a month into app cycle) I asked the PC the status of my application as I was really enjoying my away at their institution, to which they replied....you're here? So for IM it's not really necessary. I looked at them as a fun way to get away from my home institution and be with friends that had moved to other cities. I actually lived with my old college roommate for a whole month on an away. The rotation ended up being easy and we spent numerous nights playing smash, halo, and just generally having a good time. (Seriously, some **** happened with all your friends and you haven't noticed because you've been buried in the medical world)

For 4th year the first 2-3 months are what count (sub-I's/electives in field) after that the programs won't even see your transcript. You've just spent an ungodly amount of your time studying for step 1, right into clinicals, studying almost daily for shelves while waking up early and going to bed late, then you had (maybe) a brief break to prep for step 2 CK, then you have to get ready for Step 2 CS, then you have sub-I's and the pressure of getting your app in. After all that (1.5 years of constant testing and studying)...just relax. Let the offers come in, go on interviews, and enjoy not having to be tested every 4-6 Fridays. Learn the day to day of medicine and try to get some human interaction under your belt so you remember what this is all about. (Seriously, some **** happened with your friends in the past 3 years and you didn't notice because you were buried in the medical world)
 
dyeguy21 said:
So the best thing you can do is nail Step 2. Not the normal 10pt. increase, go for 240 or higher to show you learned during 3rd year. The honors in IM and 3 research experiences help a lot. Try to take a sub-I early and do well in that to better improve your standing.

Aways are weird. I did two of them. Both had no idea I did an away while I was there. I found this out after 3 weeks into the away (and something like a month into app cycle) I asked the PC the status of my application as I was really enjoying my away at their institution, to which they replied....you're here? So for IM it's not really necessary. I looked at them as a fun way to get away from my home institution and be with friends that had moved to other cities. I actually lived with my old college roommate for a whole month on an away. The rotation ended up being easy and we spent numerous nights playing smash, halo, and just generally having a good time. (Seriously, some **** happened with all your friends and you haven't noticed because you've been buried in the medical world)

For 4th year the first 2-3 months are what count (sub-I's/electives in field) after that the programs won't even see your transcript. You've just spent an ungodly amount of your time studying for step 1, right into clinicals, studying almost daily for shelves while waking up early and going to bed late, then you had (maybe) a brief break to prep for step 2 CK, then you have to get ready for Step 2 CS, then you have sub-I's and the pressure of getting your app in. After all that (1.5 years of constant testing and studying)...just relax. Let the offers come in, go on interviews, and enjoy not having to be tested every 4-6 Fridays. Learn the day to day of medicine and try to get some human interaction under your belt so you remember what this is all about. (Seriously, some **** happened with your friends in the past 3 years and you didn't notice because you were buried in the medical world)
Click to expand...

thank you!
 
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