Official 2014 Rank Order List & "Help Me Rank" Thread

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Hi, would appreciate some help with my rank list. I interviewed in the NE and hope to match in NYC or vicinity for family reasons. Aside from location, want strong clinical training in a supportive learning environment, growing interest in psychotherapy, good work/life balance, unsure about fellowships at this point. Here is my list:

1. Mount Sinai
2. AECOM Monte
3. NS-LIJ
4. and 5. Stony Brook (vs. Beth Israel) - I keep going back and forth on these 2. Aside from location, are they considered comparable in terms of reputation in the NE, ie for future job prospects/fellowship opportunities should I decide to pursue one? BI would be closer to immediate family but wouldn't mind living in LI.

6. U of Rochester - really liked the PD here and overall feel was welcoming. However, small city and cold upstate NY.
7. SUNY Downstate - not fond of the immediate area and but still close to home. Heard mixed things re: clinical training, ie. rigorous, high volume, but can be overworked/malignant feel. lots of scut.
8. U Maryland

And these, in no certain order:

Rutgers-Robert Wood Johnson - in jersey, lots of commuting between sites
Dartmouth - too rural for my tastes.
U Mass - liked the PD a lot, a tad too biological.
SUNY Upstate

Curious how others would rank. Thanks in advance!

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At this point, I'm just hopelessly confused--that gut feeling has faded and even though I have entered and certified my list, I keep wanting to go back and change it. I am definitely more certain about the bottom of my list but most worrying for me is that I don't know the order of my top 3--I don't know which one to put at the top spot because I liked all 3 of them. I realize that overall most of the programs I want to rank will give me solid training. Geographically, I'd like to stay in a bigger-to-medium sized city that is more affordable than New York. My SO is going to move with me and since he has a non-medical job (business) I need to keep his job prospects in mind. The most important aspects to me in choosing a program are the people--how friendly and cohesive were the residents, the relationship between the PD and the chairman, and the residents perceptions of how well they get along with faculty. Unfortunately, everyone during the interview is trying to sell their programs and most say warm things about their superiors but it's hard for me to tell what sentiments were genuine. Other important things for me include forensics exposure since I'd like to pursue a forensics fellowship after completing a training program and research because I want to be published. Also, I'd like to work with eating disorder patients just to see what's it like but it's not as important to me as forensics exposure early on. So here it goes--help me rank please:

1. University of Maryland/ Sheppard Pratt --the most concerning aspect for me here is the new PD
2. Wash U St. Louis-- LOVED the program and people but St Louis just doesn't have my heart
3. Temple--love Philadelphia and the people, but no forensics or eating disorder exposure until PGY4
4. St. Luke's
5. Drexel --I didn't really gel well with the people and didn't like the hospital facilities as much
6. Stony Brook
7. Tulane
8. VCU
9. SUNY downstate
10. Baystate/Tufts
11. Maimonides
12. NYMC Westchester

I don't make it any secret that my opinions are biased here, but I'd like to mention a few factors that might be relevant to you regarding WashU based on the interests that you mentioned (by the way, if you and I were at the same interview dinner, I probably already said this stuff to you):

1. Since you're interested in eating disorders - it's one of the few programs that actually has a standard PGY2 rotation (not an elective) in a dedicated eating disorders facility. The inpatient psych unit (where you essentially run the service as a PGY1) also gets eating disorder referrals for the patients that require hospital-based care that can't be offered at a dedicated non-hospital unit.

2. Since you're interested in forensics - Missouri is one of the few states where you get direct courtroom experience starting in PGY1. As a PGY1, you'll testify as an expert witness on a fairly regular basis... at least once every week or two. It's a bit nerve-wracking at first, but by the end of the year, you'll be confident. This also means that you do a lot of work surrounding the court case, giving you an incredible amount of forensic exposure in PGY1.

Also regarding forensics - two of the faculty members who are very thoroughly involved in your training happen to be forensic psychiatrists. They tend to do a great job of helping residents get forensic experience and land top-shelf forensic fellowships.

3. Since you're interested in research/publishing - this is a given, but this is one of the programs that's really known for diverse research and emphasis on various aspects of academia right from the beginning. You'll get lectures on the latest research as part of your didactic schedule, you'll see tertiary referrals that will make for interesting case reports (less than 3/4 of the way through intern year, I already have three case reports in the works), and of course, you're part of a large academic department that is actively recruiting residents to participate in really cool research projects.

4. Regarding St. Louis - there are a lot of misconceptions, but overall, it's a pretty nice place to live. Because of the cost of living, you can buy a house in the nicest part of town during PGY1. My friends think I'm rich because average income here is commensurate with the cost of living, so your "average" PGY1 salary will go way farther here. And if you're living in one of the best parts of town (as most residents do, in the Central West End), you have a much better quality of life than you'd get in many other cities. Plus, you don't have to deal with the traffic, etc. And we have great sports teams. And most major concerts/other events travel through St. Louis. The only thing I'd ever want to do that I can't do in St. Louis is to have easy/quick access to different forms of ethnic food... although that doesn't mean that you can't get it if you don't mind driving 10-15 minutes. Actually, come to think of it, I have better access to ethnic food here than my parents in Chicagoland, since everything here is within a short drive.

Also regarding St. Louis - although the Central West End is a safe and comfortable area, there is a well-known income gap. That means that you get an immense diversity of clinical cases when you train here. By the time you're done, you've seen everything - I've taken care of rich/successful patients (since they want to go to the "top hospital") and homeless patients with no family support (since we accept everybody and we don't send bills to patients who don't have insurance) and refugees (St. Louis has America's largest Bosnian refugee population, and a growing population from East Africa) and farmers (since we are still in Missouri) and everything in between.


If I met you during the interview trail, I probably assumed that you were just telling us things to make yourself sound like a better fit for the program. Now that you mention your specific interests in a neutral forum, I don't think there's a better place for you than WashU.
 
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Hi, would appreciate some help with my rank list. I interviewed in the NE and hope to match in NYC or vicinity for family reasons. Aside from location, want strong clinical training in a supportive learning environment, growing interest in psychotherapy, good work/life balance, unsure about fellowships at this point. Here is my list:

1. Mount Sinai
2. AECOM Monte
3. NS-LIJ
4. and 5. Stony Brook (vs. Beth Israel) - I keep going back and forth on these 2. Aside from location, are they considered comparable in terms of reputation in the NE, ie for future job prospects/fellowship opportunities should I decide to pursue one? BI would be closer to immediate family but wouldn't mind living in LI.

6. U of Rochester - really liked the PD here and overall feel was welcoming. However, small city and cold upstate NY.
7. SUNY Downstate - not fond of the immediate area and but still close to home. Heard mixed things re: clinical training, ie. rigorous, high volume, but can be overworked/malignant feel. lots of scut.
8. U Maryland

And these, in no certain order:

Rutgers-Robert Wood Johnson - in jersey, lots of commuting between sites
Dartmouth - too rural for my tastes.
U Mass - liked the PD a lot, a tad too biological.
SUNY Upstate

Curious how others would rank. Thanks in advance!

What a nice list! It looks really good to me overall. I would resolve your #4-#5 and #9-#12 quandaries this way: BIMC-SB, Dartmouth-UMass-SUNYUpstate-RutgersRWJ. Hope that helps, and may you match at your #1 making this deliberation a moot point!
 
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Hi, would appreciate some help with my rank list. I interviewed in the NE and hope to match in NYC or vicinity for family reasons. Aside from location, want strong clinical training in a supportive learning environment, growing interest in psychotherapy, good work/life balance, unsure about fellowships at this point. Here is my list:

1. Mount Sinai
2. AECOM Monte
3. NS-LIJ
4. and 5. Stony Brook (vs. Beth Israel) - I keep going back and forth on these 2. Aside from location, are they considered comparable in terms of reputation in the NE, ie for future job prospects/fellowship opportunities should I decide to pursue one? BI would be closer to immediate family but wouldn't mind living in LI.

6. U of Rochester - really liked the PD here and overall feel was welcoming. However, small city and cold upstate NY.
7. SUNY Downstate - not fond of the immediate area and but still close to home. Heard mixed things re: clinical training, ie. rigorous, high volume, but can be overworked/malignant feel. lots of scut.
8. U Maryland

And these, in no certain order:

Rutgers-Robert Wood Johnson - in jersey, lots of commuting between sites
Dartmouth - too rural for my tastes.
U Mass - liked the PD a lot, a tad too biological.
SUNY Upstate

Curious how others would rank. Thanks in advance!

I think your top 2 are spot on for your interests. Unfortunately I don't think LIJ is strong in what you're looking for. They're a fine program it's just not one I've heard mentioned for therapy and work/life balance. I don't know anything about Stony Brook but I don't think BI is especially strong in the areas you mention either.

In terms of reputation you're top 2 take the cake. I think the rest are similar. But from what I've heard if you're a psych grad with good support from your program from having done good work there that's all the reputation you need for good job prospects.

I'm probably headed to NYC probability wise and one of the things that I least like about that is a crowded psych job market. It's probably one of the only markets in the country that will require some hustle to get in somewhere with a good salary. But by then I might be headed back west, so it doesn't bother me that much. I think the reputation of training in NYC itself will carry me where I need to go back west.

I hope you get your top 2. Sinai is one of the places I really would've liked to interview but didn't get offered one. So you got some choice opportunities. AE-Bronx is in the top of my list too.
 
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This is a very nice list. Congrats on your interviews from so many good places. I'd put Emory on the top 5, but that's just my opinion.

Needing some input... at this time hoping to eventually go into Child Psych. From the midwest, no ties to anywhere in particular. Not big on research plans but not opposed to the idea. Favorite programs (in current order on rank list, top 5ish very close in my mind)
1. UC Irvine
2. University Pittsburgh/WPIC
3. Northwestern
4. UC Davis
5. Duke
6. Wash U/Barnes Jewish
7. UCLA- Harbor
8. Emory
Any thoughts? Gut feeling is starting to dissipate the closer the deadline approaches!
 
We have a lot of common interviews here. I'm guessing you focused in the northeast, and so did I. Based on reputation and location, I think I'd put St Luke's and Drexel higher than Temple (I interviewed at all 3). Temple is in a very bad neighbourhood and the residents didn't look happy, but the PD and chairman were very friendly. St. Louis is a great program and a very nice city to raise a family etc, but as a single female, I might not get to meet a lot of people in Missouri as I would in NYC, but that's just my opinion.


At this point, I'm just hopelessly confused--that gut feeling has faded and even though I have entered and certified my list, I keep wanting to go back and change it. I am definitely more certain about the bottom of my list but most worrying for me is that I don't know the order of my top 3--I don't know which one to put at the top spot because I liked all 3 of them. I realize that overall most of the programs I want to rank will give me solid training. Geographically, I'd like to stay in a bigger-to-medium sized city that is more affordable than New York. My SO is going to move with me and since he has a non-medical job (business) I need to keep his job prospects in mind. The most important aspects to me in choosing a program are the people--how friendly and cohesive were the residents, the relationship between the PD and the chairman, and the residents perceptions of how well they get along with faculty. Unfortunately, everyone during the interview is trying to sell their programs and most say warm things about their superiors but it's hard for me to tell what sentiments were genuine. Other important things for me include forensics exposure since I'd like to pursue a forensics fellowship after completing a training program and research because I want to be published. Also, I'd like to work with eating disorder patients just to see what's it like but it's not as important to me as forensics exposure early on. So here it goes--help me rank please:

1. University of Maryland/ Sheppard Pratt --the most concerning aspect for me here is the new PD
2. Wash U St. Louis-- LOVED the program and people but St Louis just doesn't have my heart
3. Temple--love Philadelphia and the people, but no forensics or eating disorder exposure until PGY4
4. St. Luke's
5. Drexel --I didn't really gel well with the people and didn't like the hospital facilities as much
6. Stony Brook
7. Tulane
8. VCU
9. SUNY downstate
10. Baystate/Tufts
11. Maimonides
12. NYMC Westchester
 
Hi, would appreciate some help with my rank list. I interviewed in the NE and hope to match in NYC or vicinity for family reasons. Aside from location, want strong clinical training in a supportive learning environment, growing interest in psychotherapy, good work/life balance, unsure about fellowships at this point. Here is my list:

1. Mount Sinai
2. AECOM Monte
3. NS-LIJ
4. and 5. Stony Brook (vs. Beth Israel) - I keep going back and forth on these 2. Aside from location, are they considered comparable in terms of reputation in the NE, ie for future job prospects/fellowship opportunities should I decide to pursue one? BI would be closer to immediate family but wouldn't mind living in LI.

6. U of Rochester - really liked the PD here and overall feel was welcoming. However, small city and cold upstate NY.
7. SUNY Downstate - not fond of the immediate area and but still close to home. Heard mixed things re: clinical training, ie. rigorous, high volume, but can be overworked/malignant feel. lots of scut.
8. U Maryland

And these, in no certain order:

Rutgers-Robert Wood Johnson - in jersey, lots of commuting between sites
Dartmouth - too rural for my tastes.
U Mass - liked the PD a lot, a tad too biological.
SUNY Upstate

Curious how others would rank. Thanks in advance!

I think UMass and UofR should be higher up on the list if location wasn't a factor. But, as someone from NYC, I totally understand why you would want to stay in the area than in the colder places.
 
I'm sorry I'm used to my other forum habits. I forget acronyms aren't very common on this board.

AFAIK = As Far As I Know
YMMY = Your Mileage May Vary
Interesting!!
 
Is anyone else amazed at our freedom to pick where we're going comparatively speaking to other specialties? I feel extreme,ly lucky to have a top 3 that I'm excited about. That I feel almost certain of ending up at one of. Talking to people applying to ENT, derm, ortho etc....it's just such radical difference between them and us.

The psych match is just an incredible deal for us. I feel undeserving of such fortune. People are sleeping on psych man.
 
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...The only thing I'd ever want to do that I can't do in St. Louis is to have easy/quick access to different forms of ethnic food... although that doesn't mean that you can't get it if you don't mind driving 10-15 minutes. Actually, come to think of it, I have better access to ethnic food here than my parents in Chicagoland, since everything here is within a short drive.
....

Best Italian and best Greek meals I ever ate were in St. Louis.

(Plus you have the only big stainless steel arch in the universe...)
 
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Is anyone else amazed at our freedom to pick where we're going comparatively speaking to other specialties? I feel extreme,ly lucky to have a top 3 that I'm excited about. That I feel almost certain of ending up at one of. Talking to people applying to ENT, derm, ortho etc....it's just such radical difference between them and us.

The psych match is just an incredible deal for us. I feel undeserving of such fortune. People are sleeping on psych man.

Sshhhhh...let's keep it a secret.
 
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Is anyone else amazed at our freedom to pick where we're going comparatively speaking to other specialties? I feel extreme,ly lucky to have a top 3 that I'm excited about. That I feel almost certain of ending up at one of. Talking to people applying to ENT, derm, ortho etc....it's just such radical difference between them and us.

The psych match is just an incredible deal for us. I feel undeserving of such fortune. People are sleeping on psych man.

I feel the same way. Ever since I settled in on Psych it has been so exhilarating to think that many of the best programs in the country are well within my reach!
 
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If you are like the poster above and you have finalized your rank list already, congrats!

If you are not and you still have to make your decisions and certify the rank list, hurry up and do it by tomorrow. Leave at least a week for the feeling to sink in. This way, you'll at least know a few days before the list is due if you have any regrets. Remember you can still change the list after certifying it. You just have to certify again after the changes.

Also:
NRMP said:
Do not make last minute changes to your rank order list. Most such changes are not well thought out and applicants frequently regret the changes.

Other tips are here: http://www.nrmp.org/match-process/tips-and-reminders/
 
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If you are like the poster above and you have finalized your rank list already, congrats!

If you are not and you still have to make your decisions and certify the rank list, hurry up and do it by tomorrow. Leave at least a week for the feeling to sink in. This way, you'll at least know a few days before the list is due if you have any regrets. Remember you can still change the list after certifying it. You just have to certify again after the changes.

Also:

Other tips are here: http://www.nrmp.org/match-process/tips-and-reminders/
[quote="]

Damn. The 21st!!? I thought that **** dropped on the 15th. What's the point of a computer algorithm if it takes this long?

C'mon man!!!
 
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I am really excited about my top 3, but I would be pretty darned happy about the next 3, too.

But the top 3 are the top 3 for a reason (multiple reasons). I really hope my rank list hits the NRMP matching outcomes statistics square on the nose...I have been ready for March 21 for over a month.

Yeah. I'd be happy--->satisfied with the rest of my list. But I'm only EXCITED about the top 3. That probably means I could've applied better.
 
.
 
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Relax everyone. At least we're not in a Curling competition.
Embedded media from this media site is no longer available
 
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Hi, would appreciate some help with my rank list. I interviewed in the NE and hope to match in NYC or vicinity for family reasons. Aside from location, want strong clinical training in a supportive learning environment, growing interest in psychotherapy, good work/life balance, unsure about fellowships at this point. Here is my list:

1. Mount Sinai
2. AECOM Monte
3. NS-LIJ
4. and 5. Stony Brook (vs. Beth Israel) - I keep going back and forth on these 2. Aside from location, are they considered comparable in terms of reputation in the NE, ie for future job prospects/fellowship opportunities should I decide to pursue one? BI would be closer to immediate family but wouldn't mind living in LI.

6. U of Rochester - really liked the PD here and overall feel was welcoming. However, small city and cold upstate NY.
7. SUNY Downstate - not fond of the immediate area and but still close to home. Heard mixed things re: clinical training, ie. rigorous, high volume, but can be overworked/malignant feel. lots of scut.
8. U Maryland

And these, in no certain order:

Rutgers-Robert Wood Johnson - in jersey, lots of commuting between sites
Dartmouth - too rural for my tastes.
U Mass - liked the PD a lot, a tad too biological.
SUNY Upstate

Curious how others would rank. Thanks in advance!

Would you mind sharing why you prefer NS-LIJ to BI? Also, are there other factors contributing to the ranking of U Maryland besides location and workload? Thank you!
 
Also, are there other factors contributing to the ranking of U Maryland besides location and workload?

It wasn't addressed to me but since I have also ranked Maryland quite low, I'll reply.

Those are major factors, and then there's also the fact that the PD is very young and inexperienced. He seemed very indecisive and unsettled in my interactions with him. I would really want to be in a place where I can count on the PD to always be there to protect me when I needed to be cushioned - be it in the ER or the C/L service or from difficult attendings or even difficult rotations. All the residents I spoke to had had little interaction with him as PD as well so I found nothing to suggest that he would be "that" PD for me.

And speaking of rotations, the program also has its residents rotating through too many sites. It is one thing to have many sites and quite another to require the residents to rotate through all/most of them. The former is an asset as it could mean a rich elective experience. The latter could be irritating.
 
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I have, actually. Although what I'd learned wasn't impressive. Because almost all the attendings who are difficult are much more senior than the PD (they were his teachers not very long ago), speaking to him apparently has little impact. In fact, on a few instances, it had even come back to bite them. So, what the chiefs now do is try to talk to the director of the services at the hospitals directly. This has tided them over so far at Sheppard-Pratt hospital but is still an issue at the VA and community clinics.

You mentioned the program has too many sites and that is a problem because the residents have to learn many different systems and spend time adapting to them rather than learn psychiatry. But I think an even bigger problem is that these sites are all located quite far from each other so wherever one lives, there's going to be a minimum of one hour commute each day. And because the weekly morning didactics happen in only one place, that day's commute doubles.

I guess I was the only one I liked U Maryland/Sheppard Pratt program! I thought the PD was sweet, he may have been a little more timid than others I met but was so nice, and seemed to really know my application, despite having so many applicants. He also seems more flexible than previous PD; letting residents do 2nd year rotations now with trauma unit or eating disorders and looking into doing one month peds wards instead of emergency. He took the time to write a really nice and personal response to my thank you letter and also was the only PD director to call me after to ask if I still had any questions etc. My hesitation about the program is the safety of the area and travel time but I liked him a lot.
 
I guess I was the only one I liked U Maryland/Sheppard Pratt program! I thought the PD was sweet, he may have been a little more timid than others I met but was so nice, and seemed to really know my application, despite having so many applicants. He also seems more flexible than previous PD; letting residents do 2nd year rotations now with trauma unit or eating disorders and looking into doing one month peds wards instead of emergency. He took the time to write a really nice and personal response to my thank you letter and also was the only PD director to call me after to ask if I still had any questions etc. My hesitation about the program is the safety of the area and travel time but I liked him a lot.

Hey, don't get me wrong. He definitely seemed very personable and sweet. I didn't mean to suggest he wasn't! He called me as well. It is just that I feel for a PD, it isn't just enough to be nice. They also need to be highly competent and confident, and most importantly, confidence inspiring. Someone who'd go to bat for you no matter the situation. You know what I'm talking about right? That gut feeling that you can depend on him/her in case, god forbid, you run into trouble during residency. Also, most PDs are nice, especially on interview day when they are focusing on selling the program to you. It is more of an exception actually to find an unpleasant PD, at least based on my interviews.
 
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Agreed, I do feel he is genuinely nice though. However, like you said with the exception of a couple programs I liked all the PDs I met. I find ranking so hard since I loved most places!
 
No one called me during interview season... :'(

The phone calls/emails mean nothing and are also extremely program dependent. Some places are notorious for being silent while some places like Maryland are notorious for recruiting very actively. They tell everyone who interviewed that they "will be ranked highly" and call them after the interview season is over. So, you have nothing to fret about!

But if you do get those phone calls or "love letters", don't let those influence you like almost a quarter of the applicants do (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22914523). Rank the programs only based on where you would be truly happy to go.
 
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The phone calls/emails mean nothing and are also extremely program dependent. Some places are notorious for being silent while some places like Maryland are notorious for recruiting very actively. They tell everyone who interviewed that they "will be ranked highly" and call them after the interview season is over. So, you have nothing to fret about!

But if you do get those phone calls or "love letters", don't let those influence you like almost a quarter of the applicants do (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22914523). Rank the programs only based on where you would be truly happy to go.

Oh I know! Just a little extra loving is always nice :)
 
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I ate at an Italian/Greek joint on the Hill - can't remember the name - but it has won the prize for "best toasted ravioli in St Louis" multiple times...and also at a fantastic BBQ joint a few blocks east of BJH...St Louis has some good eats.
Oh yeah, you're talking about Pappy's. The internal medicine didactics get catered by them every week... that was my favorite part of my IM rotation by far. Most people say it's better than KC barbecue.
 
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I'm a PGY-1 at Maryland/SP and am pretty sad at how negatively the program has been described on this forum. I'm too sleepy to go on the defensive (I will say we have a rigorous medicine rotation, meh), but I did want to clarify two things: the (annoying) notion that Baltimore is The Worst City Ever ('hide yo kids!') and the concern about the PD.

For one, Baltimore is like most cities -- all cities have shady areas, which somehow most people find ways to avoid. Common sense, right? It's generally a safe city to navigate through otherwise and the off-site hospitals where we rotate are mostly in the surrounding suburbs (if you're scared of soccer moms...I don't know what to tell you.). UMd is located in a revitalized part of the city (Hopkins, not so much). Think D.C. until 10 years ago, before a similar wave (read: gentrification). While Charm City isn't moving along the same pace as D.C., it's not all drive-by shootings and the drug war's a more subtle affair these days. There's a wealth of history, art, and a decent food scene. The Inner Harbor, Orioles and Ravens stadiums, interstate 95, are within walking distance of the psych dept and University hospital. Most of the residents in my class are not from Maryland, but I am yet to hear anyone complain about feeling unsafe. One of the great things about the program is its diversity of training sites and patient population. Sheppard Pratt has a more middle class to highly affluent population, with the state hospitals having an increasing forensics population. But University hospital is located right in the inner city, so if you're not interested in (or should I add, if your'e scare of...) working with a largely poor Black population with heavy substance abuse (heroin, cocaine), UMd/SP is certainly not the program for you. In all honesty, I think the main deterrent holding applicants back from the program is the city itself, something I think is truly sad.

PD: This is only Dr. E's second year as PD, but I think most residents would agree that he's awesome. I would caution against interpreting his quiet demeanor as insecurity or weakness. He's quite thoughtful, intelligent and very resident-oriented. He frequently asks for feedback and has promptly made changes accordingly. His kindness is not threatening, that's just really how he is.

I'm gladly open to talk privately about the program for those with more questions, though my experience is pretty limited so far.

Good luck to you all!
 
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In all honesty, I think the main deterrent holding applicants back from the program is the city itself

This is unfortunately very true. But then, can you really blame us for preferring safer cities? I am glad you have had no issues so far, but take a look at the "crime map" here: http://crimebaltimore.com/ Compare the number of
assault.png
(assaults) and the frequency of reported crimes to the other cities.

But University hospital is located right in the inner city, so if you're not interested in (or should I add, if your'e scare of...) working with a largely poor Black population with heavy substance abuse (heroin, cocaine), UMd/SP is certainly not the program for you.

This is one of the other main reasons.
 
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Hello! Any insight into my rank list would be greatly appreciated. I am set on my #1 choice as Yale was by far my favorite program along the interview trail. I keep shuffling the programs in spots 3-5, so this is where I could use the most help.

I'd like to get the best, well-rounded training I can while also living in a less expensive place where my husband will be happy and can find work (currently living in one of those super expensive NE cities - just can't stand the high rent anymore!). He is also thinking about going back to school for a masters, so I want to make sure I'd be able to support both of us on my salary alone if that ends up happening (especially since he has supported me a lot through undergrad & med school). We are thinking that we'd eventually like to end up settling down in San Diego or another part of California (we miss the sun!!) post-residency. Obviously we might change our minds before then, but I want to make sure I go somewhere that will open doors to west coast opportunities once residency is over. That said, some of the better "name" programs were not my favorite programs - my top 4 would be Yale, Brown, Maryland, NYU if I were ranking on gut feeling alone. My interests are all over the place, but geriatrics (with a VA), PTSD, public/community psych, psychotherapy, and medical student education are top priorities for me.

(1) Yale- LOVED!!!
(2) Brown- LOVED!!!
(3) Duke- Many residents mentioned feeling exhausted/overworked during the first 2 years (however they mostly came across happy & funny when I met them). This program does provide solid well-rounded training & probably the best psychotherapy training in the south, but I just didn't get that "a ha!" feeling like I did at Yale & Brown (and even Maryland). I also worry about transition from NE, where there are more social services available for psych patients (and all patients in general), to the south, where resources are more limited.
(4) U Maryland/SEP- This was one of my first interviews, but I LOVED it. I think I'd rank it over Duke if it weren't for the fact that advisors tell me Duke will open more doors for me post-residency. Husband also isn't thrilled with the idea of living in Baltimore.
(5) UCSF- How does anyone afford to live in San Fran?? Is it possible on a resident's salary? This program has everything I love, but I'm super scared of the price tag!
(6) UNC- No VA, but the friendliest people ever and lots of cool, distinct psych wards.
(7) NYU- LOVED this program. This is where I'd want to go if I were single, but my husband refuses to live in NYC. We're also getting tired of city life, so probably not a good idea to move to NYC!
(8) MGH/McLean- Husband refuses Boston.
(9) Emory- This is a fine, well-rounded program, but not my favorite.
(10) Tulane- This is a fine program, but the chair told me they have weak geriatrics exposure.
(11) UF

My main questions are:
-- Should I rank Duke over Maryland even though I liked Maryland better? My husband would rather live in NC & everyone tells me Duke would open more doors for me.
-- Should I rank UCSF #3 if we want to end up in Cali post-residency even if I'm afraid of the cost of living (we are married with a dog and hopefully some kiddos by PGY4, so not interested in living with lots of roommates or a place without grass nearby)? Would other programs (Yale, Brown, Duke, Maryland) also open doors on the west coast?

Thank you so, so much for your help!!
 
-- Should I rank Duke over Maryland?
-- Should I rank UCSF #3 if we want to end up in Cali post-residency even if I'm afraid of the cost of living?

1. Yes please. Keep him happy! You've ranked McLean #8 for him! What's Maryland!
2. Yes please. UCSF is an amazing program and your first job will generally come from the contacts you make during the residency. So if you want to end up in Cali post-residency, do your residency in Cali. As for managing the cost of living, live in the suburbs and commute until you can moonlight and supplement your income.
 
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Hello! Any insight into my rank list would be greatly appreciated. I am set on my #1 choice as Yale was by far my favorite program along the interview trail. I keep shuffling the programs in spots 3-5, so this is where I could use the most help.

I'm very glad to hear you formed a positive impression of our program! I hope it works out for you :)
 
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2. Yes please. UCSF is an amazing program and your first job will generally come from the contacts you make during the residency. So if you want to end up in Cali post-residency, do your residency in Cali. As for managing the cost of living, live in the suburbs and commute until you can moonlight and supplement your income.
Good advice, this ^^^. A good east coast residency is not going to slam shut doors for you in California, but making contacts, connections, and a reputation in residency sure opens up more doors.

UCSF also offers something like an extra $650/month to every resident on top of salary to assist with housing costs. This ends up making UCSF more affordable than most LA residencies for those who don't want to commute (i.e.: a 2BR apartment in SF is more expensive than LA, but in desirable neighborhoods, it's not typically $650 more). Also, I don't know what your husband does, but SF salaries tend to be on the higher end than most locales. VERY true for tech and finance, less true for Starbucks.

Question, staffylover- if you are interested in moving to San Diego utlimately, is there a reason UCSD isn't on this list? For your interests for strong VA exposure (geri and PTSD) as well as public/community psych, psychotherapy, and med student education, it's an excellent program for all of these things.
 
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Good advice, this ^^^. A good east coast residency is not going to slam shut doors for you in California, but making contacts, connections, and a reputation in residency sure opens up more doors.

UCSF also offers something like an extra $650/month to every resident on top of salary to assist with housing costs. This ends up making UCSF more affordable than most LA residencies for those who don't want to commute (i.e.: a 2BR apartment in SF is more expensive than LA, but in desirable neighborhoods, it's not typically $650 more). Also, I don't know what your husband does, but SF salaries tend to be on the higher end than most locales. VERY true for tech and finance, less true for Starbucks.

Question, staffylover- if you are interested in moving to San Diego utlimately, is there a reason UCSD isn't on this list? For your interests for strong VA exposure (geri and PTSD) as well as public/community psych, psychotherapy, and med student education, it's an excellent program for all of these things.

Thanks for all the replies so far, everyone! I really wanted to interview at UCSD, but unfortunately the timing just didn't work out.
 
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:(
.... But University hospital is located right in the inner city, so if you're not interested in (or should I add, if your'e scare of...) working with a largely poor Black population with heavy substance abuse (heroin, cocaine), UMd/SP is certainly not the program for you. ...
Perhaps psychiatry shouldn't be the field for them, either.
 
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Thanks for all the replies so far, everyone! I really wanted to interview at UCSD, but unfortunately the timing just didn't work out.

Would you mind sharing why there's such a big split between Duke and Emory on your rank list? What is it about Emory that you didn't particularly like? You can also send me a personal convo if you don't want to post here. Thanks.
 
Howdy folks. I'm a long time lurker looking for some help with my rank list of programs around NYC. I'm looking to do a fellowship in Child and Adolescent psychiatry, and would like the strongest academics possible. I know very little about SUNY Downstate, and would love to hear your thoughts.

Here are the programs I'm having a little trouble ranking. I'm particularly interested in the pros/cons of BIMC vs. Downstate, and how they're regarded in the psych community. Thanks!

1. Beth Israel (NYC)
2. SUNY Downstate
3. Staten Island
4. Westchester Medical Center
5. Harlem Hospital
 
I'm particularly interested in the pros/cons of BIMC vs. Downstate, and how they're regarded in the psych community.

Can't tell you the pros and cons of BIMC and Downstate, but as far as reputation goes, BIMC definitely has a better reputation than Downstate.
 
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